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I don't and wont ride a road bike because of the complete disregard shown for cyclists around here (Peak District / Sheffield).
When a young lad is knocked off an injured and is told by the woman passenger that the blood is upsetting the kids in the car and she doesn't want them to be late for school then I think we have reached a tipping point. Complete lack of empathy that he is someone else's 19 year old kid.
I know it annoys the TG fans but that overbearing arse Clarkson's rants against cyclists does have an effect on attitudes.
As an ex-biker I gave up after the 4th t-bone SMIDSY at a junction. If people can't see me on a big bike with headlight on and a dayglo jockstrap, what chance has a cyclist?
When I become 'Dear Leader' anyone wanting to learn to drive must have evidence that they have ridden a bike for 12 months beforehand and passed a cycling test. Then for 12 months after they must do a probationary period on a shittly little scooter so they can see just how vulnerable 2 wheel users really are. If will also help them understand road conditions and why both bikes and cyclists will move around potholes and obstructions in the road and not ride in the crap in the gutter.
IMO as long as driving is perceived as a right rather than a privilege, then nothing will change - longer and permanent bans, cars confiscated and crushed, massive fines, lots of cameras - not speeding but for RLJ, hatched box infringement, monitoring junctions.
Possible public floggings and stoning of Audi drivers just because. 😀
Lost count of how many times ive seen a csr coming from the other way on a bend and thinking 'if there'd been a cyclist in front he'd be dead now.
I was driving east on the A303 on Thurs lunchtime. At Bullington cross there were 2 cyclists riding down the 303 toward Andover , crossing the on slip from the A34.
Perfectly legal and well within their rights as road users , but you so wouldn't do it. The odds of a collision at that junction would be terrible. Maybe even up around 1 in 10 . Absolute madness .
It is a mind set thing. The lad I work with is adament the roads are for cars and cyclists get to use roads because motorists pay for them through car tax.
He is of the beleif that if you hit a cyclist / walker you wont ever be prosecuted as they should not be on the road and its not their right of way .
We have words on many occaisions when we are out and he is driving as he is a risk taker , and I think alot of bad driving is linked to this.
It could be a mixture of 'It doesnt matter , they shouldn't be on the road anyway , and if I hit them nothing will come of it ' . Coupled with a " I live a boring sedentary , oppressed life where I am told what to do at home and at work. When I am behind the wheel of MY car I am in charge. I will overtake this bike at that junction . I am in control. I am making the big decisions now. I need the thrill of a potential head on collisionas my life is so controlled that feeding bread to ducks with Jr doesnt float my boat anymore"
IMO.
But have to say London ain't that bad IMO. Most vehicles are travelling slowly in the city, come out a bit though and it's bloody awful. Maybe I've gotten used to riding in Town.Yorkshire bloody good though, in fact it's damn fine place to ride if you stay out of Leeds ! So when i ride up there I've got another myriad of routes I use that barely interact with other vehicles.
I've found Yorkshire and London both significantly better than Nottingham. Exactly as you say, London tends to be slower in the centre. There are few cyclists in Nottingham so drivers tended to act more entitled, and the [url= https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=University+of+Nottingham,+Jubilee+campus&hl=en&ll=52.955026,-1.192271&spn=0.001605,0.002993&sll=52.935241,-1.198153&sspn=0.025685,0.047894&t=h&z=19&iwloc=16083833160073460160 ]Jubilee Roundabout [/url] (fed by fast roads, and most of the entrances climb slightly onto it) is way worse than Elephant and Castle.
According to the map linked above the bit of Yorkshire I'm in is every bit as bad as Notts for points, but I guess the main roads are wider and traffic density lower.
Ya know, I think singletrackmind may well have hit the nail on the head.
A proliferation of mindless, soulless jobs devoid of decisions will create a raft of those desperate to take every chance they see to show the world they are in charge and important.
We need new legislation.
I know it annoys the TG fans
MTBer TG fans? They take their 'I'm higher on the food chain' rage out on walkers because walkers are their version of cyclists. Dog walkers OTOH are their version of road club cyclists 😉
We need new legislation.
Yes! Presumed liability for larger vehicles and a minimum passing gap law - maybe 1.5m?
But more importantly we need some hard-hitting public information adverts for drivers about cyclists.
At least Top Gear getting pulled is a start.
Annnnd don't think for one minute that I'm immune to abuse by Drivers (of what ever vehicle) it's hard to quantify because I don't log them.. 😐
There is a small road out of Hamble heading towards Netley, just a small two lane normal B road in and out of two villages. It's busy because it's the only one and there is an industrial estate too (where the RYA are) well it's part of the NCN2 and I use it a lot to get into Sotty to catch the ferries if I'm going that way.
Well... The other day whilst riding on the road and approaching a junction that a car wanted to cross (turn right across my ROW) into another road some twunt shouted "oi use the bike lane you ****" Well I was on the road and there isn't a bike lane the NCN2 is on the road... So I turned around, followed the car and called him an ignorant ****, he didn't expect that... 😆
Now I don't normally do this kind of thing, I'm immune to abuse, immune to the stupidity of drivers and yet I have to say IME 99.8% of road users are really kind and considerate, but it just takes one incident like I had to tarnish your view of all drivers.
Annnnd yet to counter that incident, I was riding in the New Forest on the CX'er yesterday. Hacking some gravel and generally having a right old hoot, now I missed a turn on the Garmin and stopped and a very lovely lady stopped in her car and asked if I was alright, asked if I need help or directions... Yeah I know a nice New Forester helping a cyclist !!
So you see, I don't think we're that bad off, we are vulnerable we know that, but I think not all drivers are morons. Some act like it but I think they act like morons whether in a car or not.
😆
The Dutch attitude only changed after mass protests against deaths and injuries on the roads caused by car drivers.
OP if you are indeed a malvern rider that's a shame you've got to this stage as the road riding round here is amazing especially on a day like this.
I got knocked off at the roundabout heading to Leominster on the A417 (rural a road) a few years back and bloody scary it was too. Luckily nothing more than bumps and grazes for me but made sure the old driver paid for absolutely everything to be replaced new.
Since then I always ride with front and rear flashers even on bright days. But of a comfort blanket rather thank thinking it's really going to help against a driver on his Mobil 😕
I don't think we're that bad off,
The UK having nearly double the Dutch KSI figures doesn't feel not 'bad off' to me.
I don't have any problems except one....
I ride close to the kerb, but im bullish (can you be passive assertive?.
I still ride like that because its only us cyclists that seem to know the rules.
However im polite and manouvre and signal always and well in advance. I always hold up a hand to any car I think I might be holding up.
My main problems come in my own town and that is purely down to all the speed reduction furniture in place, its beat the cyclist to the next hump or 20mph limit.
And don't forget you suffer the same fools and acts if not more when you are driving.
I remember thinking a couple of years back, that with more people taking up cycling, supposedly due to the TDF wins and the Olympics, that life would get better for the cyclist on the road. My thought was that the more people riding would lead to an increase in drivers who cycle, resulting in greater "tolerance".
From my experience recently, my assumption was wrong. The increase in cyclists on the road, has just made people less patient, because they come across more "bloody cyclists holding me up".
Just recently I almost got taken out at a roundabout, and a couple of weeks back whilst driving, I got flashed by the car behind, because I was waiting for, what I considered, a safe time to overtake a lady on a bike. I must have added 4 or 5 seconds onto his journey at most.
We do need public information films. People are becoming less, not more tolerant of cyclists, or anything that gets in their way when they're driving their car.
I seem to live in a perfect storm of bad conditions on the South Coast. It's incredibly crowded and there's very few roads because it's either sea or National Park. There's 2 types of drivers that scare me the worst. Females under 25 seem to regard driving as secondary to texting and are generally totally unaware of their surroundings. The old, had to actually jump off my bike twice on Wednesday, both times drivers were 80+ and had not the slightest inkling I was there. One guy was annoyed that I was there when I finally got his attention and waved me out the way.
It is a mind set thing. The lad I work with is adament the roads are for cars and cyclists get to use roads because motorists pay for them through car tax.
He is of the beleif that if you hit a cyclist / walker you wont ever be prosecuted as they should not be on the road and its not their right of way .
^This. I would dearly love to see large scale research on UK driver attitudes to cyclists, by age group. Questions such as:
What is VED?
Do cyclists pay to use the road?
Which vehicle requires permission to use the roads and which vehicle has a right?
Which cyclist is wrongly positioned? (show graphics)
Indicate with a mark. How closely is it safe to pass this cyclist? (Different instances shown)
I remember thinking a couple of years back, that with more people taking up cycling, supposedly due to the TDF wins and the Olympics, that life would get better for the cyclist on the road.
'Smeed's Law' - ie road user safety in numbers?
You mention two accidents, both 20 years ago. So the evidence doesn't suggest that your journeys are any less safe than they ever were. I'm not aware of any statistics showing accident per mile ridden increasing either (although maybe I'm just not looking hard enough). Not saying you are wrong but could it be your perception of risk that has changed rather than the risk itself? I find the more crowded roads these days more annoying (and hence ride off road more these days) but I'm not sure they are any less safe. More traffic generally means lower traffic speed.
@tenfoot. Its swings and roundabouts. Everyone knows a cyclist so that's good. But the sheer numbers now of clueless cyclists on the road, not good.
Id not take all this to heart, driving is just as bad. We just need to keep on getting the numbers up, keep on setting a good example (which many in my club don't)
And basically chin up.
Too much texting / FB-ing whilst driving IMO. Driverless cars now, please !
You mention two accidents, both 20 years ago. So the evidence doesn't suggest that your journeys are any less safe than they ever were
I see what you're saying, and i do think of this. Let me put it into perspective. My two collisions to date:
1. was exceptional circumstances with only two road users present (self and the driver who slammed into me from behind). Ice and bad decision (she braked on a hill seeing me, then slid downhill, wheels locked, down camber into the back of me
2. I was commuting, travelling in left lane around Peartree Island in Dudley in the rush hour. A busy island. Flat loader passed close, caught me or my bike not sure, which dragged me and pulled me down hard into the road behind him. Gravel rash both hands quick A&E job - luckily not hit by other car behind me.
Since that accident I avoid cycling around busy islands in rush hour. Prefer to get off and cross by foot. That was the only extra caution i added to my riding skill box. I never used to feel especially vulnerable on roads.
Since then, not only has the volume of traffic increased, but so have my levels of defensive riding in response to what I perceive* to be a general increase in corner-cutting, not looking,not indicating, a lack of Highway Code knowledge, txting, speed passes etc. No, I haven't been hit, but yes the near-misses and very near misses have increased to the point where I as a result now ride less often and less places than I would like. It could be just that Malvern is full of careless/elderly drivers. Wish it was true, but others here seem to have similar concerns/experience.
I could also be me 'just getting older' and more wary/falsely conscious (?) of falling standards in courtesy, due care and respect. Grumpy middle aged man meme. But that entails throwing all of my experiences and observations - actions and reactions in the bin simply on account of being in my forties? Seems like a lazy angle to take. I honestly don't remember half as many near-misses and I used to cycle much more than I do now. IMO A-roads are getting mental. Used to cycle the entire A458 with no worries. I wouldn't even attempt it today. Neither the A449, I just do small sections and then nip off down lanes. Negative attitudes towards bicycles on roads are whipped up into a frenzy by the rags these days. Criminally so. This attitude wasn't present when I were a kid! Cyclists on roads were just a curio. Considered kids stuff mostly, and the odd old Dawes Gala mounted tourers or weirdie commuters.
Pedlad - we do a quick 14 miler once a week - night time, mostly lanes and B class, just the short Storridge section on the Hereford- Worcs A road is completed on not-ideal footpath as have a few misses there. As someone else said, when driving and you watch the drivers in front approach 'fast' (sic) rural bends or crests, yr heart is in yr mouth as a cyclist, imagining a cyclist just around the corner/over the hill.
* Personal changes in perception possible and noted.
You mention the young lad hit by the van. I think incidents like that can make you take stock of the situation you put yourself in if you regularly ride a busy A road etc.
I can head into town and have every other car get within an uncomfortable proximity whereas if I head northward and onto the back roads nearly every car passes at a safe distance.
Short tale : I decided to be a pedestrian instead of cyclist yesterday and walked into town. On my way I spotted the odd cyclist and one in particular stood out. A roadie riding about a metre from the curb with a car (who'll be Bluey for this tale) approaching from behind, cars continually coming from the other direction. I had a good look at Bluey as he decided to pass the cyclist without really decelerating - his focus wasn't on the cyclist at all, he was simply trying to avoid hitting the cars coming from the opposite direction. The cyclist sort of flinched and shuffled over a bit. From my perspective it wasn't as close as it feels when it happens but it left no room for maneuvering around debris or the myriad potholes along that stretch. I felt for the guy but was stunned at the lack of care demonstrated by Bluey. I know Bluey and will be having a chat when we inevitably meet in the future.
I have a feeling cyclists are getting stigmatised, for what reasons I can only guess. It's distressing and similar to you, OP, I have cycled for over thirty years on the roads and it's definitely getting worse. I'm seriously considering giving up the busy commuting type A roads and just doing the stuff where there's less traffic.
My ride this morning was relatively ok, but even so in two hours I had a woman barging past into oncoming traffic to run some lights, some daft old git crawling past really, unnecessarily close on a wide empty road, and a white van man overtake less than a foot off my bars when I was doing > 40mph on a blind bend, which scared me a lot. That's perfectly normal, on relatively quiet roads, early on a weekend morning. Head out in rush hour and the treatment gets significantly worse.
It's not just unpleasant on the bike, either. I heartily dislike my very short car commute, because there's always someone tailgating me for having the audacity to obey the speed limit, or some appalling driven skip-lorry bullying its way up tiny country lanes at ridiculous speeds, or oblivious school-run muppets honking their horns at each other whilst clogging everything up so their fat kids can avoid walking the 1/4 mile back home. Using British roads is generally horrible, and I'm always amazed at the number of people who say they enjoy driving, because in my experience it's almost invariably a shitty, boring, irritating activity.
The state of UK driving is utterly depressing, and frankly I despair. I don't think anything that can be done will make any difference, and I don't think anything that would really help make it better will ever be done because most people see driving however the **** they like as a god-given right.
oldgit -I don't have any problems except one....
I ride close to the kerb, but im bullish (can you be passive assertive?.
Likewise. I like 'passive assertive' 🙂
because its only us cyclists that seem to know the rules.
If that's 'only one problem' then (discounting aggressive/impatient drivers) what could be worse?!!!
Oh yeah, those 'cyclists' who don't know the rules either. A 'perfect storm.'
Just got back from a 90Km ride in the Dales and no real problems for the entire ride, certainly no aggression, indeed a couple of cars stopped to let me pass when technically it was their right of way. Apart from the road between Skipton and Threshfield it was pretty quiet traffic wise though.
What I did notice was that even on a long open straight with no traffic coming in the opposite direction a good 50% of cars passed closer than I was happy with (by which I mean I could have reached out and tapped on the bodywork). I don't think it's deliberately aggressive just that the drivers don't know what "a gap the width of a car" means so just pull out a bit and sneak past.
However it's not just motorists - I was following another cyclist for about a mile and he didn't look behind him once so he'd no idea what, if anything, was approaching him from behind. I've seen lots of cyclists like that. You need to be regularly checking behind you - every ten seconds or so - the same as when driving a car.
I passed my driving test in 1977 and the volume of cars on the road since then has more than doubled. The reality of driving in the UK today is that you will spend significant periods of time in queues or at lights or behind slow vehicles. However the [b]perceived[/b] delays aren't as great as you might think: a very early start and I can drive up the A65 towards the Lakes and get a clear run. Sticking religiously to the speed limits (I've been pulled on the A65 😳 ) it takes me exactly one hour to get to the M6/A65 junction. Leaving later and being in traffic and I get there in 65mins. Just five minutes difference yet people will get worked up about it.
As for regional differences, I've found the drivers in the Skipton - Leeds - Bradford area to be significantly worse than those over the border in Lancashire.
I'm a daily cycle commuter in Sheffield.
Most near incidents for me have been around Victoria Quay which is in the vicinity of several call centres and is an alternative route out to the M1 avoiding the Parkway. Always drivers unaware of where cyclists might join the road, motorists jumping red lights or motorists unhappy that I'm forced to deny them space to pass due to parked cars (although I'm usually so close to 30 at this point they shouldn't really need to pass and certainly not at the speed they try to). I'd echo Roger's comments about the woman who told the 17yo her boyfriend had just left waiting for an ambulance that his bleeding was upsetting her kids and he was making them late before leaving the scene.
We have the usual cycle lanes that disappear when they'd help, glass and metal scrap all over the road edge, section of NCN6 that a local business gates access to as it suits due to having an insecure perimeter wall (cheaper to lock it up than bring their premesis up to scratch) and all the rest of it. Sheffield also has a totally illogical mix of one way streets that are reverse signed to indicate they are two way for cyclists. This winds drivers up as they don't see the sign the cyclist does. Not all one way streets here are so signed though.
I hardly see any other cyclists who actually stop at junctions or obey red lights, although they're usually covered in hi vis, so that's OK. I'm not going to argue that this makes all the driver behaviour fine, but as a group we need to sort out our own attitude to legal Road use if we're going to start preaching.
Well I've just come back from 90k's around the New Forest on a route I use a lot.
Starts at Hythe then over the forest North then South to B'mth seafront, then East again covering the upper Mid and Top of the Forest.. It's a great route, lots of bumps, windy tops and fairly smooth roads, forest covered lanes and open moors.
The route takes in a healthy mix of B roads and single track lanes and today it was fabulous, few cars, few horses, few people with Dogs and a few other cyclists.. Nothing happened, no car angst, no mad overtaking, no slicing me up, no random car manoeuvres, nothing but me and the spin of my Legs.
So there are days like this, it's a shame we tend to only focus on the rides that include a bit of angst rather than the rides that just make you breath a lot and put a sting in your legs.
Great ride. 8)
Funny that bikebuoy, I was out in the northern NF earlier and had a similar day - most noticeable thing about the driving was that it was considerate
I wonder if it was busy enough for drivers to calm down a bit, knowing they weren't going to "make progress"
care to share your route ?
This is NOT sexist- its based on personal experience...
Most of my near misses are with young females staring or typing at their phones.
They don't even notice you or check the mirror afterwards.
In court they'd claim that they thought I was either a Badger on their screen/caved in car or they just didnt see me and the phone wasnt in use (honest, as your only witness is dead).
Just finished a ride from sheffield to S****horpe to see a friend. Stuck to quiet lanes where possible. Only dodgy feeling bit was A road into Gainsborough-the road narrows significantly for the final couple of miles to the Trent crossing and people aren't prepared to wait if there is oncoming traffic. Had several close passes but other than that and the hellish headwind along the bank of the Trent into S****horpe it was a nice ride!
Anyone here ridden on the Orkney or Shetland Isles? We went touring up there last year - couldn't believe how considerate [b]all[/b] the drivers were to both cyclists and pedestrians. The tale we were told (I've not verified this) was that a promising young local cyclist was involved in a bad accident and the population decided that since they relied on tourism a lot that they'd change attitudes.
There are still the boy racers - we were at Maes Howe and the guides warned us to take care crossing the road to the monument as it was used as a race track with top speed logged by the police at over 120mph!
Maybe I'm lucky or maybe I'm oblivious but I really havent experienced anything too bad.
The only time I've been in an accident with a car it was my fault.
I had a worrying conversation with a work colleague who I generally regard as pretty sound. Someone mentioned coming across a mum with pushchair round a blind bend in a country road with no pavement. He suggested it would be her fault if she got hit by a car for "not taking responsibility for her own safety". He then extended this viewpoint to cyclists and mobility scooters on busy or tight roads. In his head, the car is king and his entitlement to drive how he wants overrides anyone else's right to safety. I don't think he is that unusual though....
@scaredy..
Sure enough, let me sort out and I'll happily share it.
😀
I, along with many many others know your dread. It wont be fixed until riding a bike becomes a part of the driving test I'm afraid. A sample of what we have to put up with while riding to work or even just for pleasure would or should give the more than ignorant, mean, nasty, careless, awful, twisted morons to think about whilst they are sitting " their drivers "exam".
Malvern Rider, I'm still riding and enjoying the old "Maxlite I bought off you a couple of years ago, we are doing the C2C this summer too. Thanks and good luck !!
Your right it is getting worse but I only find it in town meaning Cheltenham which is a small place but has some crazy driving these days.Out of the country roads I don't have a problem its just when you get near town.I think it depends where you live.I did a fair bit of riding in and around Swindon for a few years and had no hassle and Swindon has hell of a lot of roundabouts.The scary thing these days is you know some people are going to pull out and they do you end up with a six sense.Thats why when you go off-road its so much more relaxing no traffic trying to take you out.Just the same when you ride a motorbike even worse at times.
Most of my near misses are with young females staring or typing at their phones
This. I notice it more when I'm driving and I can see the girls in the rear view mirror paying zero attention to anything other than their phone. I got close to stopping the car and getting out last week as she was following me for ages and nearly rear ended me several times.
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One of the biggest road safety improvements would be that all company owned or used vehicles had a contact address or phioone number on the rear and passenger side, Buses and coaches have to display owners details by law behind the front loading door.
Also due to the huge number of fraudulent claims we all subsidise against bus and coach companies nearly all buses and coaches are fited with multi point recording equipment, along with data loggers and telematics to record and report to base excesive braking and acceleration.
Ashas been pointed out wheree you live and the time of day you pedal at has a big difference. I think i am quite lucky living in suffolk. The volume of traffic means drivers are quitw ploite. I ride early morning on country lanes where is little traffic and the cars i do find pass very conciderately. I also ride after rush hour traffic and the roads are again quiet even the main roads.
That enough about me though. There are too many cars on the road. This leads to poorer driving standards. I notice it when i drive anywhere busy, hell my driving standards dip when i get cought in traffic. Which is why i dont like driving much anymore. The onlt solution is road pricing and make driving during the working day expensive In towns, cities and the main routes. That will force car sharing and some to leave there cars at home. It wont happen though And traffic volume is only going to get worse if left unchecked.
If you are on facebook, have a look at the 'UK Idiot drivers exposed' thread entitled 'you bitch' 400+ replies, mostly abusing a cyclist who was floored by a driver emerging from a side road. Astonishing attitudes from 'normal' people.
^^^
Thanks for that. Now I'm thoroughly convinced of being surrounded by young-to-middle-aged people (ok the facebook generation) that literally wish to see cyclists hurt/dead - what's more, their demonstrable failure to learn (or care about) the Highway Code/traffic laws ensures that this is a likely event. Words completely fail me. Never was a Facebook page so ironically named.
Did you read the one underneath?
[url=
hits cyclist video[/url]
Take care out there.
One of my favourites:
Shouldn't allow bikes on the roads anymore it's not safe. Bet he has no insurance! I think cyclist's should f off!
Where have i heard that before?
'I tol'yah boyuh! it just plumb aint safe here in Mizzizzippeh fer them damn Negrer fellers...i think they should just go home should never have allowed 'em heya!'
Not that believe there is a conspiracy to literally drive cycling off our roads via unchecked entitled angry car-driving haterzzz...but there is a definite trend. I expected a lot of the 'cyclists deserve what they get' remarks, and was not disappointed.
What actually surprised me were the agitated apes leaving those comments seem largely convinced that riding a bicycle is a sign of low status/poverty, and that getting hit by a car is simply a plea for sympathy/ploy for insurance payout.
(drives over cyclists head) "See, I accidentally (hurhur) got me one of them cyclist killed all by accident. Dont say I didnt warn the c. When they gonna learn, it ain't safe! Roads are for cars. Darwin innit"
I love England though, it has nice woods, moors, parks and forests and coast...that makes me proud of my country.
Awe don't be put off... That FB thingy is a teeny proportion of the population and by definition not representative.
I'll be doing my best impression of Phil Gil in honour of Milan-San Remo.
Cap on, clip in
Was driving yesterday (sorry, but I am extraordinarily considerate with people on bikes), and an oncoming car was drifting towards my side of the road. Put brakes on to reduce the collision speed.
He then looked up from his phone long enough to pull back in. Idiot...
Twice yesterday morning while driving locally I had to brake to avoid cars that had drifted to the wrong side of the road. One was excessive speed, one was a young woman looking at a phone.
Maybe a high profile, zero tolerance campaign by the Police would be useful, backed by proper sentencing with no excuses to wriggle out of bans. Just ban people for a week or two, make them take (unpaid) leave if they can't figure out how to get to work, make little Tarquin and Chardonnay miss football practice if they can't get there.
Make the idiots realise that their license to drive is important and shouldn't be squandered.
It's not just about cyclists, it's about protecting everyone, especially from themselves.
Awe don't be put off... That FB thingy is a teeny proportion of the population and by definition not representative.
Absolutely agree. That FB page is designed for people who are ostensibly more interested in focusing on bad drivers/motorists, so would assumedly represent the more sympathetic views towards other road users such as cyclists. pedestrians. Horse-riders etc.
Taking this as the 'concerned motorist' baseline - it does therefore show without a shadow of a doubt that the UK is populated almost entirely by indescribably boorish hateful f**wits, every one of whom is high as a kite on his Dunning-Kruger effect.
( 😉 I do actually agree with you, bikebouy - most commenters are only drawn to those pages for aggro/finger-pointing/'injury-prOn', not out of concern for the state of driving standards/safety)
Since I posted yesterday I went for a very short drive 1.5 Miles.
Young lad pulled out at speed on a mini roundabout causing me to hit the brakes.
Young lady drove straight across a junction, head up looking under her glasses to text with her phone on the steering wheel. Myself and traffic on the opposite carriageway skidded to a halt. Guiltily driver oblivious.
Return journey.
Old fella driving under 20 with brake lights on permanently as in faulty. Driving so slow other drivers thought he was letting them out.
In three miles you see awful driving.
Also encountered an incoming car pull over heading right for me so she could park up outside the sweety shop.
Plus stopping in box junctions and on crossings.
Its just bad.