Bagstard, clearly my comment was an ironic critique of the misogynistic culture that seeks to judge women purely based on their appearance.
I'm shocked and appalled that you would expose her to such disgraceful male chauvinism by posting her picture on a bike forum for men to gawp at.
😉
Your welcome! 😀
Would men only events be acceptable?
We had International Women's Day a few weeks ago. I'm not quite sure what this is for or why their isn't an International Men's Day.
We either have equality or we don't.
I am curious - there seems to be general agreement from everyone that there are far more men in cycling than women, and on balance the majority of (presumably male?) forumites seem to support the idea of encouraging more women to take part. But, whenever the issue of gender in cycling is raised, or if anyone mentions any action being taken to address it, there is almost a backlash of "that's not fair".
So, open question, what do you think would be acceptable actions to encourage more women into cycling? Women-only clubs / rides / events? More female role models? Better coverage of women's cycling in the media? Cheaper prices? etc etc
We had International Women's Day a few weeks ago. I'm not quite sure what this is for or why their isn't an International Men's Day.
I'm honestly staggered that people are really this stupid.
Oh, and there is a men's day, it's just that no one GAF about it.
Sue_w - I would think that the best way of encouraging girls would be for their partners to lighten up a bit when offering to take them out cycling. It seems that most guys have to treat every ride as some sort if rave. Disappearing off into the distance or down a rocky drop and leaving your lady behind isn't exactly gonna do it.
Surely all this sexism talk is just twaddle - Its economics.
The men's race will be insanely popular - It's already sold out - Therefore people will get charged full whack
The women's race will be heavily under subscribed vs the men's - Therefore it makes sense to offer a discount to encourage a larger field and therefore have a better, more competitive women's race.
Supply and demand. Simple as.
And if you really feel that as a man your are being discriminated against, then get used to it. Despite what your mummy promised, life isn't fair.
A whole site for women who race mtb's [b]and[/b] they're organising women only races (one assumes there isn't a £5 discount for being female). [url= http://stilettosonwheels.com/ ]http://stilettosonwheels.com/[/url]
I think anythign that encourages people to get out the house and on a bike is a good thing.
If it's discounts for women or discounts for blokes with an unhealthy BMI then that's fine with me and I'll happily pay a bit more to make up the difference.
I'm honestly staggered that people are really this stupid
I wouldn't be. People are very good at being stupid.
Has anyone thought that the reason there aren't more female mountain bikers / cyclists is because they're just not interested, and no amount of encouragment, coercing or reduced costs is going to change that?
Provided there's no active prohibition of female participation, it's not mandatory to have an equal split of men/women in all aspects of life ...
Surely all this sexism talk is just twaddle - Its economics.
I initially thought you may have a point here. But economic test fails if you apply it to a racial discrimination scenario, eg: giving certain groups discounted entry to events where attendees are predominantly from other racial groups.
Encouraging more women into cycling is a good thing, but I think it needs to be done in a manner that is consistent with equality.
- Positive media coverage of female cycling and cyclists.
- Classes for women and men at the same event.
and on balance the majority of (presumably male?) forumites seem to support the idea of encouraging more women to take part.
Personally, I don't mind whether more women take part or not, I can't really see it mattering one way or another
Papa_Lazarou - Member
We had International Women's Day a few weeks ago. I'm not quite sure what this is for or why their isn't an International Men's Day.
Why not try and find out then you won't make yourself look like an idiot.
joao3v16 - MemberHas anyone thought that the reason there aren't more female mountain bikers / cyclists is because they're just not interested, and no amount of encouragment, coercing or reduced costs is going to change that?
This sounds about right. Out of all the males/females I have known at uni/friends/colleagues, GENERALLY, the males are the ones that have been interested in sports, especially stuff like mountain biking.
I only know one girl who is into mountain biking and can probably count on one hand the number of girls I know who are actually 'into' a sport. There are several who regularly exercise, but most don't actually do it for the sport/competition etc. they do it because it gets them fit/helps them keep lose weight etc.
And while I can see how women get discouraged from events when it is too male dominated, it doesn't explain why you don't see groups of girls out riding at weekends. You see plenty of all male groups and you see quite a few male groups with perhaps one female rider, but I have never seen a group of all women out riding.
BTW how does the OP feels about ALL 1001 enduro series races being free for women 😉
[i]I can't really see it mattering one way or another [/i]
It matters if women don't ride bikes or take part in events because of their perception/experience of the way that men in the sport will behave towards them if they do, though?
but I have never seen a group of all women out riding.
Who's going to sort any mechanicals or navigate? 😉
Ok Ok, keep your wigs in place. I retract the comment about IWD. I was considering it in the context of the UK and forgetting the 'international' bit.
Do less women attend the cinema?
well plenty of films have a token love interest part played by some famous actress i have never heard of whose sole purpose is to add nothing to the plot.
i can only assume they are there as a marketing tool to attract women?
"it's got Jolie-kate-gynetth-keira thingy in it who's married to whatshisname. must be a good film"
It's patronising.
It's a sop.
It's a PC attempt.
How is a discount to encourage participation PC? Or patronising?
Regarding the Steel City Mini DH race. The way to make this cheaper for yourself is to enter you and your partner in the race as well. Done on the joint account means its £22.50 each.
It's a win win all around 😀
Just for info, it isn't always male dominated, of our group of about 15 riders, 3 are female and are out almost every ride, and another 2 female are occasional riders, but we have had weeks where the girls outnumber the boys....
whenever the issue of gender in cycling is raised, or if anyone mentions any action being taken to address it, there is almost a backlash of "that's not fair".
It's kind of expected though surely, if any given group with significant power has their control of that power threatened they're always going to complain.
It's patronising.It's a sop.
It's a PC attempt.
That's how I'd see it.
It's also very probably against the law - charging different prices for the same service/goods based on gender is illegal.
I ride horses, and the male/female split at lower levels is almost the exact reversal of cycling - should the equestrian community therefore be trying to encourage more men with lower competition fees and so forth? I completely get what women are saying with regards to buying cycling kit (higher prices, lack of choice) as men's riding gear is exactly the same, simple economies of scale.
However, I don't care if more men ride or not, it doesn't bother me that there's an imbalance between the amount of men/women riding. Not sure what my point is actually...! <need more caffeine>
charging different prices for the same service/goods based on gender is illegal.
not the same service, it's entry to a race. either the mens race; price a, or womens race; price b.
not the same service, it's entry to a race. either the mens race; price a, or womens race; price b.
I'm not sure that argument would hold much legally to be honest.
[i]I'm not sure that argument would hold much legally to be honest. [/i]
seems to work well for prize money at a lot of sportign events where there are parallel mens and womens competitions?
I'm OK with women only events, fair enough, men can be idiots especially so in the company of women, doubly so in a normally men only environment. I can always go for a ride elsewhere.
I'm a bit less impressed with women only swims at the local pool which is normally in peak times, before and after work when most people want to swim, that's exclusion and a bit of a PITA.
£5 race discount, well I'd guess most events price to break even at less than full capacity so chances are that female discount is subsidised by the blokes. It is discrimination, tho quite how worked up I'd get about it if I was at the same events I'm not sure.
Oh and fist thing I did when I heard about world womens day was google world mens day and it's in november, if you care.
seen a group at rivi a couple of times on nightrides also know a couple of very good female riders. But yeah not many ladies into sport in general, my mrs isn't, some just do it for the exercise.but I have never seen a group of all women out riding.
I would think that the best way of encouraging girls would be for their partners to lighten up a bit when offering to take them out cycling. It seems that most guys have to treat every ride as some sort if rave. Disappearing off into the distance or down a rocky drop and leaving your lady behind isn't exactly gonna do it.
Surely that depends on the woman in question.
But that aside, what fun would it be for the guy if he's into 'raving' on his bike, as you put it. All that suspension and not being able to use it ? Boring at best. Maybe all men should purchase 'days out wiv da missus' bikes - y'know, something rigid that would make the trails interesting again when we have to slow right down for the 'slower' female riders.
I guess the sarky point I'm trying to make is that not all women are made equal and some are more than capable of keeping-up down a rocky drop etc. and IME the best way to learn is to attempt to stay on the rear wheel of someone much quicker/better than yourself.
idiotdogbrain - Member
I ride horses, and the male/female split at lower levels is almost the exact reversal of cycling - should the equestrian community therefore be trying to encourage more men with lower competition fees and so forth? I completely get what women are saying with regards to buying cycling kit (higher prices, lack of choice) as men's riding gear is exactly the same, simple economies of scale.
So HR = ballet. We are in the same boat!
But interesting on the economics of this - is ladies cycling gear less or more expensive that mens? I had the impression less but could be wrong.
I'd guess same rrp but less deals available as less of them stocked, same goes for the clown size shoes I need and [s]real[/s] proper man sized bike frames.is ladies cycling gear less or more expensive that mens?
Surely all this sexism talk is just twaddle - Its economics.
I initially thought you may have a point here. But economic test fails if you apply it to a racial discrimination scenario, eg: giving certain groups discounted entry to events where attendees are predominantly from other racial groups.
The "it would be discrimination if you did it to the blacks" argument is just twaddle as well.
Splitting sporting competition into men's and women's events is just common sense and generally accepted behavior. [i]You know, coz the women are feeble and all![/i]
But having a "blacks only" bike race would be discrimination. So the discrimination wouldn't be charging less for this race to increase entries, but having it in the first place. The same is obviously not true of women's races.
I've not checked but I suspect that the prices for the juniors are the same, regardless of gender.
Surely that depends on the woman in question.
yes. some want to be spoonfed cycling with added pink frills, cake and girly chats.
some just want to be treated equally and are comfortable in the presence of the opposite sex.
We should have a STW race with £10 off for transgender minstrels, black up and tuck back and you'll be quids in lads...I mean ladies 😉
Who's up for the SingleTransWoman DH-XC 30 minute enduro? We'll have full whack for the normals, +£3 for 29ers (£1 per inch), £5 off for the laydeez, £10 off for the transgender minstrels and a strict no fatty policy. Fatbikes, not the festively plump and some kind of 5 minute handicap on anyone that considers themselves to be a 'big hitter'. The prize is a set of those ltd ed pink flowery Hope brakes.
Anyone noticed the huge bias in gender design for bicycles? An equal representation in the sport would have male/female bikes, components and kit closer to 50:50. Running for example caters far better for females, cycling is still on it's way.
On reflection, I can see how some females may find it a pat on the head to get a discount. It sort of maintains the division to treat people differently and results in hostile responses from men who have £5 less in their wallets.
What a kerfuffle?!
[i]results in hostile responses from men who have £5 less in their wallets[/i]
surely they'll have £5 more in their wallets after paying less for a ticket for the little lady 😉
Come to think of it, I keep crushing my meat and 2 veg on the saddle, women don't have this problem so it must be the fault of the saddle makers, sexual discrimination 'small' claims court here I come. 🙂
Hey all those who are upset by women only events/cheaper entry.
MTFU and grow some
Actually ... I'm surprised the OP is thinking about entering a DH race... thought you had to have massive ones to be any good at that game.
It's an interesting one though isn't it? Are the women racing for less prize money? In which case surely a lesser entry fee is actually very fair?
On the one hand you've got people who think it's sexist, unfair, patronising.
On the other hand there are people who think it's welcoming and encouraging.
Surely that depends on the woman in question.yes. some want to be spoonfed cycling with added pink frills, cake and girly chats.
some just want to be treated equally and are comfortable in the presence of the opposite sex.
And then there are the girls who can kick the arse of most men. I still remember the expression on one guys face at an Enduro when two women casually rode past him on a climb, chatting away. He bust a gut trying to keep up with them, they finally dropped him on the technical descent. 😀
The girls in question were Jenn O'Connor and Kate Potter, both World class XCers.
The girls in question were Jenn O'Connor and Kate Potter, both World class XCers.
I've ridden with Kate Potter in Luchon. She could sprint up climbs in the big ring when I'd be wheezing up in my lowest granny gear. Though I am a biffer so it's not that impressive. 🙂
I train with a woman who's about my speed, she's always coming back with prizes, I never win anything. Cow. And they get all the good looking riding gear.
It's an interesting one though isn't it? Are the women racing for less prize money? In which case surely a lesser entry fee is actually very fair?
less prize money because less women enter? the men are possibly subsidising the womens prize pot with their overpriced entry.
It's probably fair to say that there would be a lot fewer womens events if they weren't being run alongside the mens.
I train with a woman who's about my speed, she's always coming back with prizes, I never win anything. Cow.
Sounds like discrimination to me. How dare they discriminate against people who aren't very good at mountain biking. 😛
At least with golf they discriminate against the better players.grum - Member
Sounds like discrimination to me. How dare they discriminate against people who aren't very good at mountain biking.
The £5 less that I paid to enter is even better value for money as I'm slower than most men, so will get a longer time out on the course for my money than those who paid £5 more and go faster than me. 🙂
I sort of think that makes sense!
And they get all the good looking riding gear
No, it's just that they look better in the gear they do have. 🙂
This remind me of when my daughters used to race mtb/xc after a season all the boys wanted to seperate the boys from the girls as a girl was allways winning.In the end she went over to road racing had a little bit of success pro riding oh her name nicole cook
I don't think we should be so stroppy with the OP. Alright the women only thing has its virtues so if they like that fair enough. I wonder what would happen if some one ran a male only event though. Hmmmm.
The price difference is wrong though. Thats not equality and isn't that the flavour of the month?
Better to have discounts for kids on bike worth less than a hundred quid. Now that would get some new riders in.
Neither point is especially significant but I can also see another point here.As a middle aged, white, employed, no kids but married, able bodied straight person I get no breaks at all. Anyone of the above would get me something some where. It amuses me that those who spout equality are the worst hypocrites. No point in whinging though as interest groups are always the most selfish.
[i]It amuses me that those who spout equality are the worst hypocrites. No point in whinging though as interest groups are always the most selfish[/i]
you think being the opposite sex to you is being in an "interest" group?
🙄
Riding around Regents Park on a Saturday morning it is about 15 : 1 men to women riding but the joggers its about 8 : 1 the other way. So, if you men want to get laid go running, women, join the bike ride.
As a middle aged, white, employed, no kids but married, able bodied straight person I get no breaks at all.
Oh FFS, this kind of bollocks really annoys me You get no breaks at all, other than being male in a society where men get payed a lot more, in one of the richest countries in the world, being white and straight in a society where ethnic minorities and gay people still suffer discrimination, having a job when lots of people are unemployed, having no kids which means more disposable income, and being able-bodied? Are you really complaining about not getting any 'breaks' due to not being disabled?
This is one of the most staggeringly stupid and unaware things I have ever read on here.
Perhaps all the women who have saves a fiver on race entry should by the current issue of Singletrack with it, to support the male dominated forum.
As a middle aged, white, employed, no kids but married, able bodied straight person I get no breaks at all.
I think the point is that generally all the breaks are set to a default for your demographic. It only becomes obvious when the pendulum is swung in a different direction, even then a £fiver doesn't really make that much of difference to your life (when I say you, I mean you as a representative of your demographic, not you personally! That would be a bit judgemental...)
Edited to add - Grum kind of made the same point as me, in a slightly different style! Kudos.
where are all the 'men only' events?
would be a bloody outcry is what.
Edited to add - Grum kind of made the same point as me, in a slightly different style! Kudos.
Yours sounded more like a reasonable person rather than a ranty socialist, but this 'white able-bodied men are the only people you're allowed to discriminate against' bollocks really gets my goat. It's quite a pervasive myth too amongst the hard of thinking.
Perhaps mattsccm should deliberately give himself some kind of debilitating injury seeing as disabled people get all the 'breaks'. The jammy bastards.