I saw Cy's comment, and find it very disturbing, as I have no interest in converting 'down'.

I reckon 9 speed will be around for awhile yet, although we were saying that about 8 speed years ago 😕

No I doubt 9 speed will disappear overnight (8 speeds still about ain't it) but the concern for me was the actual level of kit available:

cy said: On March 1, 2012
No, all MTB groups from Deore up at 10spd only now.

From the front page story about the new SLX

Has always been the way. 8sp XTR was still available in the lbs in 2002, a year later it had all but disappeared apart from a few boutique items. Good luck finding some M950 cranks now.

Bugger. I'd rather go back to 7 or 8 speed rather than 10sp.

(I remember when this was all fields, etc.)

In 1999 when Shimano went 9 speed it did so on LX, XT and XTR all at the same time (as with 10 speed in 2011), they kept making 8 speed stuff for a while, in fact they still make a full range of 8 speed stuff, it's just the cheap components, on the (safe) assumption that [i]most[/i] folk using the higher end kit will have upgraded.

There will still be 9 speed stuff around for a while yet, just don't expect to be able to get 9 speed XTR cassettes in 10 years time!

I think I'll keep an eye out for a glut of high end 9 speed stuff on Merlin CRC etc - it'll probably the last chance to get it cheap before it becomes 'rare' and full retail.

I've always assumed that a rear mech will work with any speed shifter (could someone confirm this?). So, if it bothers you that much, you could run your gears into the ground, then buy all new 10 speed cassette, chain, chainrings - plus a 10 speed shifter.
Or if you don't care, the most expensive 9 speed cassettes in 2013 and beyond will cost you nearer £20 rather than £50-£120.

Why is everyone so reluctant to change? I look forward to when 10 speed is normal so the stuff costs the same as our current 9 speed. 10spd means I should be able to get away with running a single front ring which means less maintenance and setup hassle for me.

_tom_ - Member
Why is everyone so reluctant to change?

Say you're happy with 9spd but trash a rear mech, if you can only buy 10 speed you then need to also buy shifter and cassette, makes it an expensive repair job 🙁

Why is everyone so reluctant to change?

money?

Replacing 9 speed system usual means, cassette/chain/middle ring. I've no desire to replace shifters/deraileurs too.

could someone confirm this?

you need a new rear mech at least. Pretty sure its no even compatible with road stuff either. (My cross bike is currently using an old MTB mech)

_tom_ - Member

Why is everyone so reluctant to change? I look forward to when 10 speed is normal so the stuff costs the same as our current 9 speed. 10spd means I should be able to get away with running a single front ring which means less maintenance and setup hassle for me.

Because every time I've had to do this change it's been worse (or at least no better) functioning than the old stuff, and it doesn't last as long. I had a 7 speed mech for 10 years, yet I've been through five 9 speed ones in the last 2 years.

10spd means I should be able to get away with running a single front ring

Why can't you "get away with" it using 9sp? I do.

The fact is that I have a small stock of 9sp cassettes and chains and a lovely unused 9sp XT shifter set in a box. What I don't have is any spare 9sp derailleurs.

So I'm going to be on 9sp for some time and am thinking about snapping up a couple of medium cage derailleurs while they are still around. Else I'll be suffering the ignominy of Alivio shifting 😉

It's not that expensive though, I picked up a mix ot x7/x9/1050 bits off the classifides for little more than the 9s stuff would have cost.

I only run gears in the summer so they last ages for me anyway, might use my stock of 9s stuff next winter rather than going SS.

[i]I look forward to when 10 speed is normal so the stuff costs the same as our current 9 speed.[/i]

Hmm, for top-end stuff it is as cheaper if not cheaper already - xtr shifters?

I've always assumed that a rear mech will work with any speed shifter (could someone confirm this?)

No. 10 speed mechs are different. SRAM and Shimano aren't cross compatible either.

i'm happy to up grade the mtb to 10 when it needs it. I'm less keen to do the road bike only as the shifters are so much more expensive.

however somewhere we have lost the road/mtb compatibility which is a nightmare for touring types. I'd like to run road shifters/ front mech & chainset with mtb cassette and rr derailler. i don't think this is possible with 10speed. shame. 🙁

Why can't you "get away with" it using 9sp? I do.

I'm lazy/slow and find that the top gear with a 32t sprocket isn't quite easy enough for longer climbs.

you can get 34t 9 speed or fit a smaller chainring 🙂

Yes. Go out now and buy lots and lots of 9 speed Shimano, especially the expensive stuff.

For what it's worth I've not noticed any wear rate difference between 9 and 10 speed.

Spares for your current 9 speed bikes is a concern obviously, but I'm not bothered about new bikes coming with 10 speed now. Two 10 speed XT drivetrains here, one from the first batch and one from the new 2012 batch.

Mister P - ah.

so do I get some 'spare' expensive shifters, cassettes and deraileurs for the 3 bikes I run 9 speed or just switch bikes to 10 as stuff breaks and use the remainder as spares on the remainign 9 speed bikes?

Are 9 speed chainrings ok with 10 speed?

So long as I can get nine speed cassettes of a reasonable quality then I'm not overly bothered. If Shimano decide to stop producing these then I'll have to rethink any future purchases of Shimano kit.

I like using it, but I'm easily offended when it comes to new standards or manufactured obsolescence.

Way back in the dark ages ,when 8 speed came along,there was a lot of worry that an 8speed cassette wouldn't be able to handle the mudfest racing conditions of your average ATB event in the UK. so we all rushed out and bought.....
[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTl5KXJpb_yeN6s6YA2XfBtnO-A1kzRZG189bIO1Wa0ooWdfm-v9EU3NllT [/img]

So how on gods earth do people outside the dry trails of California manage with 10 speed 😆

I'm stocking up on rear mechs and cassettes as all my bikes run dual control (the best thing Shimano ever made and I am a very happy Shimano user). So going 10 speed means new brake levers and a retrograde step to 6 levers on my handlebars when I only want 2.

I have a spare set of deore shifters a XT and an XTR rapid rise rear mech and a 32 cassette. As soon as budget will allow me I'll get another set of shifter in SLX and probably a couple of 34 cassettes.

10 speed is probably good for road, cross and X country. In the real world it's just rubbish. Chain keeps breaking, as soon as you look to your rear mech hanger too firmly the gears won't change properly. Basically it's a microsoft approach. Overcomplicated and useless solution to a problem that does not exist.

Only just finished "upgrading" all my bikes to 9 speed, so ain't planning on changing to ten speed for a while

Is there "any" benefit to 10 speed other than making the big S's a long of money as people upgrade? For me one of the best inventions has to be the chain link which I believe it is really hard to re-open on the 10 speed chains without difficulty so that is a big draw back to me. I have 9 speed and never feel I have too few gears. Many none XC bikers have got rid of a third of their gears anyway by ditching the big ring so I am not sure why we need more gears when behaviour suggests want want fewer.

Chain keeps breaking,

Do we have any empirical evidence of that? Both Wipperman and Campag (and Shimano?) claim their 10 (or 11) speed chains are stronger than their 9 (or 10).

I don't know anyone who's had more problems with chains breaking, irrespective of riding style.

10 speed is probably good for road, cross

To be honest if a groupset is going to struggle 'cross is about the worst environment because of the conditions it's usually run in.

Many none XC bikers have got rid of a third of their gears anyway by ditching the big ring so I am not sure why we need more gears when behaviour suggests want want fewer.

I can see the logic of 2x10/3x10 systems for racing and riders doing long tarmac/gravel sections. But I have been pleasantly surprised how well my HT with 1x system (32/11-34) works for riding the hills and woods of Somerset, and I've noticed more of these setups on the trails. The big manufacturers don't seem to have picked up on this trend. Which seems odd.

I'd like to see Hope bring out a dedicated complete 1x system with: cranks, single ring, BB, Cassette, and chain guide as I think it would sell like hot cakes in the UK. I think they are quite close, but wish they would hurry up!

I do take the point about the usefulness of a granny ring on big-days-out on big hills, though.
I'm this -> <- far from changing my FS to 1x, but keep chickening out.

I had a 7 speed mech for 10 years, yet I've been through five 9 speed ones in the last 2 years.

This. My commuting bike is 19 years old, with original 7-speed mechs and shifters. I've had the same b/b, chain, cassette and rings on for over 2 years, with no sign of wear.

you can get 34t 9 speed or fit a smaller chainring

By sprocket I actually meant chainring. My cassette is 34-11, I think a smaller chainring would make the top end a bit easy for faster descents.

I can see the logic of 2x10/3x10 systems for racing and riders doing long tarmac/gravel sections.

1x10 is getting increasingly prevalent in XC racing, good for 25mph+. It's on the road I'd have more top end.

Why is everyone so reluctant to change?

I have three MTBs with 9sp, all with newish drivetrains. It'd cost the best part of a grand to upgrade all to their current mish-mash of SLX/XT/Saint/tiny bit of XTR.

I have been stockpiling mechs and cassettes already, tbh.

My commuting bike is 19 years old, with original 7-speed mechs and shifters. I've had the same b/b, chain, cassette and rings on for over 2 years, with no sign of wear.

Apples and oranges, the 10speed dura ace on my 'commuter' is 2 years old too. Infact the chain is about 5 years old, but was unused for 3 of those.

Sound like there's a niche appearing for the smaller companies to exploit.
Microshift's thumb shifters

[img] [/img]
are to my eyes truly beautiful and I'm ever more tempted to convert one of my singlespeeds to 1x8 just so I can have one of them sat on top of the handlebar.

Oooh! Thanks Mostly! Still running 7/8speed Suntour thumbies, They were working flawlessly till they took a pounding in an OTB incident. They might still work fine with some judicious molegrip/hammer work, but it's nice to know there's an alternative to the Pauls/dura ace cobble-together.

On my 2011 st4 I can say that 1st gear on the granny ring is much easier to pedal with the 10 speed. This is great for long smooth climbs when you are really tired but I find It hard now to select a gear for short steep technical climbs. With a 9spd I just used to shift as far as i could go into first gear and up I went over technical climbs. The 10 speed in 1st gear makes it very hard to clear anything as your feet spin around like roadrunners and you tend to stall from no speed. I didn't notice the difference when changing to a 10 speed road bike but on the mountain it gives you more to think about when approaching sections and takes a bit of getting used to. The biggest sprocket on my st4 is almost the same size as the biggest chainring!

Sound like there's a niche appearing for the smaller companies to exploit.

there truly is.

imo microshift et al need to stop competing and carve there own market sector.

how about 11-36 9 speed cassettes - XT level quality.

Just grow weird facial hair and move to 1 speed.

Well I already have and am happy with it - the facial hair and 1 speed.

Sunrace make decent 9 speed cassettes and will do for some time to come. Jockey wheels will remain available and the chains will always be available. So the only things to no be available are Shimano XT/XTR shifter and mechs. But since microshift and Sunrace make there own version they may plug the gap in the market and start making there own high end nine speed kit. Although some say there is nothing wrong with the microshift 9 speed kit.

The big manufacturers don't seem to have picked up on this trend.

Specialized big enough?

[img] http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/Specialized/9812?$Display$ [/img]

😉

Ohh well done spesh [thumbs up]

"how about 11-36 9 speed cassettes - XT level quality"

That would be great.

"how about 11-36 9 speed cassettes - XT level quality" on a proper carrier

Sound like there's a niche appearing for the smaller companies to exploit.
Microshift's thumb shifters

Way ahead of ya, Mostly:

[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6527242639_49535e639e.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7165/6527242639_49535e639e.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/udder/6527242639/ ]Retrotastic[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/udder/ ]bent udder[/url], on Flickr

Velo Orange mounts, Dia Compe downtube shifters. When I get 'round to putting gears on my Singular Hummingbird, these are the shifters I'll use.

Do we have any empirical evidence of that? Both Wipperman and Campag (and Shimano?) claim their 10 (or 11) speed chains are stronger than their 9 (or 10).

I don't know anyone who's had more problems with chains breaking, irrespective of riding style.

10 speed is probably good for road, cross

To be honest if a groupset is going to struggle 'cross is about the worst environment because of the conditions it's usually run in.

Plenty of broken chains during last year transvésubienne. Up to the point it was mentioned in the French Press.

2x10 gears are inappropriate for riding up mountains. As the 29x36 is not as small as the 22/34. I don't think you change your gears in such hurry or under the same strain than you do during an enduro or any race around here.

like juan said 10 speed isnt as good when it comes to going uphill as you just dont have enough low gears for it, but it becoming more popular due to bike companies sticking 10 speed as standard on most if not all thier bikes.

Its pretty much being forced down our necks, even more so than 29ers id even go as far to say...

I dout they get rid of 9 speed gear but it wouldnt suprise me if they start increaseing the cost of parts or stop using it completely on their production bikes soon.

It's inevitable they'll stop selling good 9-speed, since 10-speed hasn't shown enough benefit to get everyone to swap by choice now they'll start forcing the change. 'twas ever thus. They've already used the other tricks- pushing the new standard for new bikes, and withholding features from the old standard.

TBH if one of the main companies would just make me an 11-36 cassette and a shadowplus-style mech in 9-speed that'd do me. But instead I guess I'll be swapping over once XT comes along in shadowplus, on one bike at least.

My new CX bike is 2x10 but they've stuck such a narrow block on it I don't even know why they bothered, the range is so tight they could have given it a good range of ratios with 6-speed.

I run 8 speed on my cx and 9 speed on my mtb. I'm preety sure the 8speed is more tolerant to mud and ice than the mtb, only 2 weeks ago on the mtb the mud froze on the topend 2 cogs meaning i got chainslip in thoose top 2 gears. This has never happend on the cx and i'e used that in snow and ice on sdw and in races.
I can only imagine 10 speed to be worse on the mtb. Also acording to my garmin i've done more miles on the cx than the mtb and the mtb drive train isnt going to last much longer, it does get more abuse though so not directly comparable i guess.

I'm almost persuaded to go 10sp for the clutched derailleur. It's just a shocking waste of my existing 9sp stock if I do.

Aye. I'll move one bike to 1x10 with a shadowplus I reckon, then the bits off that bike will keep another bike going for longer on 9. (I've got a lovely set of white X9 shifters on the Hemlock, not giving those up without a fight! Cold dead hands!)

My new CX bike is 2x10 but they've stuck such a narrow block on it I don't even know why they bothered, the range is so tight they could have given it a good range of ratios with 6-speed.

but youd have massive gaps in between each gear. its not all about the overall range between the gears.

You should all man up and buy 10speed because-

a- chains last longer

b- it shifts better

c- it's going to become ubiquitous whether you luddites like it or not.

(This is obviously on top of the wider range of gears, lighter chains and the option of tighter gear ratios on an 11-32 cassettes)

float - Member

but youd have massive gaps in between each gear. its not all about the overall range between the gears.

I really wouldn't. 10-speed with a 12-25 block means lots and lots of doubleshifts for me. a 6-speed 12-25 wouldn't give much different gaps to a 10-speed 11-34.

Why do thumb shifters have such a cult following? in full twitter mode #shiteoutdatedtechnologhy

"I've been through five 9 speed ones in the last 2 years"
Either you ride a LOT, or IMO you're doing something wrong?

"10spd means I should be able to get away with running a single front ring"
an 11-36T 10spd casette offers about half a gear extra range over a 11-34T 9spd casette

"With a 9spd I just used to shift as far as i could go into first gear and up I went over technical climbs. The 10 speed in 1st gear makes it very hard to clear anything as your feet spin around like roadrunners and you tend to stall from no speed"
This is nothing to do with how many gears are on the casette, its the number of teeth that happen to be on the casette/chainrings

"how about 11-36 9 speed cassettes"
11-34T 9spd casettes can feel a little 'gappy' sometimes IMO, 11-36T 9spd would feel more so

"2x10 gears are inappropriate for riding up mountains"
IIRC a number of specialized bikes with 2x10 come with 38/24T chainrings and I guess 11-36T casettes. 24/36 is almost as lower a gear as 22/34T

"You should all man up and buy 10speed because-
a- chains last longer
b- it shifts better
c- it's going to become ubiquitous whether you luddites like it or not"
But it'll cost me a fortune to do so?
Being forced to buy a 10spd rear mech only adds up
What I don't like is I'll inevitably end up with a load of working 9spd stuff thats not worn out. A year ago I needed a new rear shifter, I went with a 9spd one, but I don't think Ill get to wear it out, tis lovely, so a shame

" the wider range of gears"
Shimano for eg typically has a narrower range of gears in 10spd though?
Shimano 9spd typically 22-32-44T, 11-34T/11-32T casette
Shimano 10spd typically 24-32-42T, 11-36T/11-34T casette

SRAM do offer 22-32-44T cranksets, but then middleburn offer a 20T 9spd granny ring?

"lighter chains "
But heavier casettes, out back on the wheel. I thought less suspended/spinning weight was better?

I was holding back for lack of 10spd powerlinks, but I've since leanrnt others do offer 10spd 'powerlinks'
The cost puts me off so far, as well as I can't see it really offers any massive benefits

So, in conclusion I bought 9sp chainring, Cassettes and a derailleur. That should keep me going for a bit 🙂

2x10 gears are inappropriate for riding up mountains. As the 29x36 is not as small as the 22/34. I don't think you change your gears in such hurry or under the same strain than you do during an enduro or any race around here.

Why would you have a 29t inner ring, neither SRAM nor Shimano offer that?

What you actually mean is inappropriate for your level of fitness, bike, and riding style. That doesn't apply to everyone.

Shimano do 24/38, which with an 11-36 is near as dammit the same as 22/34. We've had the conversation about how useless that gear really is, for racing particularly as you can walk quicker, so I won't go there again! Or you can run 22/34 but with a wider cassette and have an [i]even [/i]easier gear so you can pedal down to 0.5mph.

Why do thumb shifters have such a cult following?

Mine are 19 years old and still in daily use.

the 29x36 is not as small as the 22/34

Um, 29? 26 or 24 (or 22 if it's a SRAM triple, although a 22/36 on a 26in wheel bike is low enough to demand an extremely competent inner ear 😉 ).

Anyway, none of these "too high" 2x10 low gears are taller than the 24/28 that used to be an adequately low gear. Maybe the hills have got steeper?

Anyway, none of these "too high" 2x10 low gears are taller than the 24/28 that used to be an adequately low gear. Maybe the hills have got steeper?

I can get up hills now using 22/32 that I couldn't get up BITD on a 24/28. Why would I want to go backwards?

What you actually mean is inappropriate for your level of fitness, bike, and riding style. That doesn't apply to everyone.

Sorry I mean it's is not appropriate for riding up "MOUNTAINS" you know the stuff I have around here ;-). Albeit I force myself to use the 22 less and less it is sometimes very useful to go up technical sections. Or after 2400 m of altitude gains 😀

Yes, for your Level of fitness and bike. You're incredibly arrogant and naive if you think that's the case for everyone! I'd not run a single ring if I was riding round there, but I'd not run a 22t either! Anyway, even the girl who's TP bike set up is detailed in the other thread uses a single ring. Get over yourself saying the 22t is essential! Some people are fitter than you!

WEll first the girls have not ride everything up hill... As you can see in the video a lot of bike carriage was involve. Secundo, the trans provence didn't went trough the steepest mountains (sorry I do insist around here it's moutain not hill). So please it's your turn, don't be arrogant, as you have clearly no clue where I ride.

 

Whoah, talk about sexual tension.

'cruzheckler - Member
Why do thumb shifters have such a cult following? in full twitter mode #shiteoutdatedtechnologhy'

I like the lack of clicks coming from my handle bars when I shift with my friction thumbies.

Before i'd be spinning along listening to bird noises etc and hear clickity-click each time I changed gear with my 9 speed shifters, where with my thumbies it's just the gear mech/chain moving noise in the background I hear, and I can be lazy and only lube my cables and housings once in a blue moon too.

For anybody interested, you could possibly put longer bolts onto a 10 speed rear mech and continue to use it with a 9 speed chain and cassette?