[Closed] should we be allowed to cycle on the pavement ?

I happily and brazenly ride on some of the pavements in Manchester City, mostly in places where they should be a cycle path too.

I think its ok as it is, there aren’t enough cops to police the important stuff, let alone pavement use .. I’d suspect as soon as cyclists have the legal right to use pavements the conflicts will really start.

I also use pavements for about quarter mile from home, always give way to peds, and /or am polite when they move aside for me.

My son’s been riding to school everyday for the past 5 years and we worked out a route to avoid roads all the way - no way would I trust drivers to share the road with him. He’s never had an issue, apart from a couple of busybody morons in their cars shouting at him. Mentality of those idiots is beyond my comprehension.

From what i read on the West Midlands Police blog, when Operation Close Pass came about, was that unless you are being a danger to pedestrians, the police are very unlikely to stop you. It would be easier if they made them all shared use, they wouldn't even have to be seen to be ignoring a technical breach of the law. Being shouted at from morons in cars is an acceptable level of rise - they are unlikely to mount the pavement in anger, but the odd angry pedestrian could be a risk factor.

I use pavements quite a lot.

When I was six or seven a cop moved me off a pavement on to a reasonably busy road.   Never trusted their judgement since 🙂

i use pavements now and again, when traffic is busy and i can see a parked car my side, sometimes it is easier to go around it on the left on the pavement than face idiotic drivers behind not giving way to the bicycle in front of them..

only on a mtb mind you..

as long as it was made clear that pedestrians have right of way and cyclists dont act like dicks then it could work

I do it all the time.

As long as you follow rule number one, don't be dick.

I ride on the pavement all the time, "(loads round here are shared use anyway) I just try to be considerate to other people.

I always use pavements. I'm courteous as hell mind. As far as I'm concerned they're already the only option on many routes, but obviously you just have to not be a ****.

They should be shared use where possible I think but then the only trouble is that it'll likely lead to a situation we have now with terrible flow on cycle paths making them inconvenient and drivers insisting that you should ALWAYS be on them.

The sheer number of "cycle paths" that send riders up onto pavements anyway , I reckon the lines have been completely blurred between what is allowed, what is tolerated and what is technically illegal.

I got told to today by a Police Officer, there'd been a head on crash in the middle of the road (God knows how it happened as it wasn't anywhere near a junction), and the Police Officer said to ride on the pavement until I was well clear.

The only time I use them is very occasionally to avoid a road closure or similar over a short space. I don’t think they should make them shared use by default frankly.

The advice from police chiefs/government has, for some time now, been that it’s ok under certain circumstances (avoiding very busy traffic, dangerous junctions etc) as long as it’s done safely & considerately. So I have no problem with it 😀

Also do it all the time, will jump back on the road if there are walkers but like Ton says outside of school toddler runs there usually isn't. Have had the Police kerb crawl me a couple of times and shout oi.  I'll take more notice when they do something about cars parking on cycle lanes.

Out of town I do it regularly, I just keep my speed down and give way to anyone I come across.

I try to keep off them when they're actually a cycle path as they're terrible and constant stop start and sent up god knows where to cross a road, probably with a car parked across it somewhere.

I don't do commutes on road, so I'm rarely on the road at busy times for that to be much of an issue.

If only we could do cycle routes like this:

https://twitter.com/BicycleDutch/status/1064483553373769731?s=20

It's a good opportunity to practice bunny hops, side hops and if you want to really abuse your bike, rear wheel curb slides!

If you're careful and move back onto the road/stop/slow down/give way to pedestrians (who are supposed to be there) seems fine to me. Obviously not the wisest thing to do on the busiest city pavements!

'Lycra Loons demand to cycle on pavements as well as roads.  Is there any place they don't hog'?

-  The Daily Volk, next week.

The South City Way in Glasgow is being built Utrecht Style.   It's not even finished yet and already there is a huge increase in use since July.  Convoys of 10 bikes, every 10 minutes.  2 years ago it would be about half that.    10 years ago it was only a few.

"When I was six or seven a cop moved me off a pavement on to a reasonably busy road. Never trusted their judgement since"

...yup, I recall riding around one of the commons in Malvern when my son was eight.  As we left to head home (me on the road, my son on the footpath) an old woman in her 80s started shouting at us. Really shouting, that he should be on the road!  I tried to explain to her why he wouldn't be taking to the road any time soon but she wouldn't have it. Bonkers.

We could still hear her when we were 400-500 metres away, trying to get attention that a law was being broken.  Felt sorry for my lad 'cause she had taken away from what had been a great play on the bikes time.

I have always ridden pavements and won't ever stop. I'm always courteous, thoughtful and friendly when I do so though. The only folk I've ever come across with a problem with it have been the exact opposite sort of person.

Got pulled over and even fined when young by overbearing zero common sense Police. The older I am the more respect they now give to my common sense approach to cycling on pavements. Generally nowadays they just smile back and return my greeting.

I don't normally unless it's something like a very busy roundabout or junction that is too dangerous/fast/intimidating to cycle across.

Having said that when I occasionally ride into Liverpool there are some roads past the airport which are really busy and have a 'pavement' separated from the road by a verge. In some places this is a cycle path in others isn't officially but I use it.

Yeah,I do occasionally but I'm mega respectful of pedestrians and take it slow.

This is the problem with only owning a modern MTB. Super wide handlebars make it tricky to ride on pavements. Used to do it all the time on the drop bar bike though. As others have said, don’t break rule 1 and all is good. The only downside is nervous cyclists. I encountered one yesterday whilst walking to work. Cycling towards me and getting wobblier as they got close. I ended up walking in the road to avoid them.

Coming from a small village surrounded by other small towns and villages, I've always done it, and still do it even on the road bike now. I think in that kind of setting it's universally accepted really - I've certainly never had any issues.

I am going to say no, but hope that it is policed sensibly and ignored as the conditions dictate.

The trouble is that riding sensibly or irresponsibly isn't as easy to quantify and prove/disprove as say a speed limit or a small amount of cannabis (for personal use honest). As most of this forums users are experienced cyclists (and eminently sensible) we are able to make reasonable judgement calls on safety, but many are not.

There’s one spot on my commute where I’ll often hop onto the pavement for a few hundred yards. If I stay on the road it’s difficult for cars to get past because it’s busy and uphill and has traffic islands whilst if I’m on the usually empty pavement it’s easier for the cars and I’m not scared of something driving into the back of me. If a pedestrian is on the pavement I keep out of their way. It’s silly that it’s illegal when it works so well.

Yes. Especially for school routes & quiet ones you describe  & bring back some bike training in schools imo.

I'm often on pavements with my son (North London).We ride respectfully and I have taught him to slow for pedestrians & to consider being squashed by cars at  EVERY crossing.

Only had two incidents in 6 years - A woman screaming at me that "cyclists go too fast" (she was walking faster than us) and another, when we still had the baby seat, a man stood in front of us & grabbed my bars. He told me he was going to call the police - I advised him that he may as well call himself an ambulance at the same time, if he didn't step away from my now upset 2 year old! Not my finest moment - but not the worst.... 😉

we need a cycling infrastructure, seems to me, we have one.

why not just make all the pavements (not city center) into shared use?

we can ride and the very very few that walk can do so.

Yes we do need an infrastructure.

We could, and probably should, but it would be at a huge expense.

Having been in Amsterdam recently, coming home it's amazing how wrong we have in it that respect. What's also interesting, which i'm sure has some correlation, the number of fatties, was borderline non existent.

Pavements are for pedestrians.

I ride where it's safest. Mostly that will be the road for me but certainly on occasion it will be the pavement. It's a resource to be used and as many have commented it rarely gets used for its intended purpose these days. Obey rule 1 and take a judgement call. My children have been taught to do the same.

There’s one spot on my commute where I’ll often hop onto the pavement for a few hundred yards. If I stay on the road it’s difficult for cars to get past because it’s busy and uphill and has traffic islands whilst if I’m on the usually empty pavement it’s easier for the cars

I rode into work a different way form normal a while ago due to some roadworks. I ridden home that way but never in so I know the road and I wasn't looking forward to the climb on a narrow-ish busy section.

Turned onto the climb and almost immediately there was a lorry bearing down on me from behind so I popped up onto the kerb and waved him through. He waved and flashed his lights. I had a safe couple of hundred metres. Rejoined the road and the top and all was well.

Technically, I was probably illegal but when the alternative is being legal but holding up a lorry on a climb, I'll take the "being nice to others" approach.

As a rule I don't ride on pavements (maybe when I'm riding with my daughter who is 7 and consequently rides on pavements, and occasionally at other times though usually I ride in the traffic as it's faster and gives more chance to avoid doorings, people walking/driving onto the path that might not expect you to be there etc.), but of course it should be legal if done responsibly (and if done irresponsibly there are already laws to deal with that). As the police are only supposed to enforce the law if it's done irresponsibly, the law should reflect this!

I still remember riding down to my mate's house when <10 and having some old woman have a go at me (I think I must have been <<10 as IIRC I had 16" wheels). And more recently a woman shouting "Do you have to ride on the pavement" to which I responded "Yes, if I want to lock my bike here" - I was riding on the pavement for around 2m. I'm pretty sure a car mounting the pavement would have been ignored.

gotta love sending it off a 6" kerb!! huck to flat!! oosh

"Technically, I was probably illegal"  you were not.

Safe or courteous, that is the exemption in the law. What you did was both. If the pavement had been full with kids it would have been different.

Having your kids ride on the pavement along the side of a busy road -Safe

Theres a narrow road but straight road that I ride quite often, there is always a row of parked cars on the right. I'll ride in the road but it car comes towards me it can't pass, If the pavement is clear …….

As a user group we are aware of the laws and the best practice that we should apply... unfortunately many other different user groups haven't got a clue, then throw in a bucket full of self entitlement  and it all goes Pete Tong

I’ll  always remember, years ago...

I’d ridden LEJOG, with some detours, 1000 road miles over a couple of weeks. No hassle from anyone.

Taking the train home, changing in London: getting from kings cross to Paddington seemed like a nice chance to use the bike as transport.

Within five yards, as I mounted my fully laden tourer carefully and crossed the pavement onto the road I got an ENORMOUS EARFUL of abuse for ‘riding on the pavement’.

Funny what sticks in your memory...

[quot]I do it all the time

Me too. Just use judgement and common sense and I can’t remember ever having an issue with anyone complaining.

Provided you follow rule one, don't be a d**k, crack on.

I rarely have need to but when i do, travel not much faster than walking pace. All my bikes have Hope hubs so i rarely catch anyone unawares.

We've got clicky hubs and I've got a bell on my bike which actually seems to work- who knew? It's basically 'don't be a dick' isn't it? Smile, say hello or whatever, and carry on your merry way. Oh, and this-

gotta love sending it off a 6″ kerb!! huck to flat!! oosh

<fist bump> Woo! </fist bump> What tyres for drops off kerbs? Do I need a 170mm bike to ride on a pavement?

Just as a technicality... With so many sections of shared use path, how does one know if the shared use path has ended?

For example there are some sections where you will see a green bicycle crossings alongside the green man. Follow the road to the next lights (or even a crossing a different road at the same crossroads) and there won't be. There are no visible signs indicating a shared use path around the crossroads, so one could argue that the green bike light indicated it was OK to join the pavement there, until when? It's incredibly rare that I've seen anything saying "bike route ends" or similar...

I'm pretty lucky in that on my commute, I can cycle most of the way on shared cycle routes. The down side is the dog walkers who insist on letting there dogs off the lead to roam around wherever they want, even at this time of year when its pitch black, suppose its not as bad as those ****ing stupid extender leads!

Legally, no we shouldn't. It'd be another weapon in the driver's armoury. "get off my road onto the pavement where you belong" etc.

Done sensibly (aka observance of rule1) it shouldn't be enforced. Done non-sensibly (aka all the teens pulling wheelies at full chat through kids and parents leaving school, or outside the shops), it should be cause for a bollocking.

Personally I hate riding on the pavement. I'd far rather share my space with a bunch of tin boxes moving at twice my speed, who at least have a framework of rules they "might" observe plus limited mobility, than trying to deal with the completely uncontrolled, unaware average pedestrian who's not looking where they're going, not paying attention to their offspring or their dog on an extending lead and who may well suddenly step randomly sideways with no prior indication. Its for this reason I detest shared use cycle paths.

We have a perfectly good cycling infrastructure - its called "the road". we just need to train and educate the other users who are licensed to share it with us better.

Honestly if it was me I'd ban dogs. They put thousands of people in hospital per year cos of attacks and shit everywhere making people ill.

Why people keep dogs is a mystery to me.

If there was just a few around it would be different but near me it feels like there are more dogs than people.

 Legally, no we shouldn’t. It’d be another weapon in the driver’s armoury. “get off my road onto the pavement where you belong” etc.

This +1.

the official line from the Department for Transport (DfT) is that cyclists may ride on the footway – more commonly referred to as pavements – provided they do so considerately, and that police officers need to exercise discretion.

see https://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement

I usually just go on the roads - less hassle for me around here. No real bad traffic etc. If traffic is solid or there's a narrow road and the pavement is clear i would use the pavement.

Just been told off by my cyclist mum for cycling through the shopping centre.Think I'll push next time as a short cut.

In Tokyo everyone rides on the pavement - it'd be strange to ride on the road.

With so many sections of shared use path, how does one know if the shared use path has ended?

Usually this crap:

Its for this reason I detest shared use cycle paths

It is odd - the shared paths on my commute are much busier than the "normal/illegal" pavements that I use. There's one section (about 400metres of it) that I never use, it's pitch black and random pedstrians often appear out of the gloom, or dogs, or cyclists.. and junctions... it's safer and easier to stay on the road. Shortly after that is a blind corner, shared, bus stop about 20 mts up. Well dodgy, in the dark especially.

See how cleverly they've designed the cycle path section to share the pavement at the point where people wait to cross the road.. genius

TBH I prefer to be on the road mostly, I'm on a Bicycle which I consider to be a vehicle and therefore traffic I'm not a "Wheeled Pedestrian".

Yes there's an argument for "deconfliction" with motorised vehicles but there are two main problems I have with riding on pavements (Painted "Cycle lanes" or otherise);

1 - Pedestrians, it's really their domain, I will be moving faster by default and I am an unexpected danger to them; listening to music, making phone calls, walking dogs, pushing pushchairs, these are all legitimate (but distracting) things for a Ped' to be doing on a pavement, and it all increases the liklihood of a collision if there's a bike trundling towards them.

2 - Crossing junctions, if you ride on the pavement eventually in runs out, and you have to cross a road, normally at a junction or roundabout, this is a prime location to get hit and you probably increase the odds of that if you are rolling off the pavement rather than moving on the major carridgeway with other traffic.

Having said all of that I do use a few stretches of "Shared use" pavement/bike lane to make my commute more direct and slightly "safer" than playing on a dual carriageway during rush hour.

Should the rules be changed?

IMO No, because as soon as you make the pavement a "default bike lane" you're helping the "Clarksonites" bully bikes off the roads.
Bicycles do still belong on the road, they are vehicles, they move at 15-25mph and will injure a ped in a collision, keep the law as it is, where deconfliction between different types of vehicles is needed, it falls to the local authorities to adjust the environment with lanes and/or markings, and dare I say it we should actually trust the Police to apply the law proportionately, resources allowing...

I’ll take the “being nice to others” approach.

ultimately that's it, as cyclists, we are the most suited to be flexible to riding on road or on pavement.

If you see a pedestrian, hop on the road and cycle around them. If you can't do that, slow down and give them right of way.

If you are holding up a car/van/lorry and it's easy to pop on the pavement to let them by, do it.

It's all good karma.

I totally understand the feeling that we have just as much right on the roads as cars. I also can see that pedestrians can get annoyed when we ride on the pavement. Problem is that cyclists in the UK don't really have anywhere to go where someone isn't pissed off and that includes bridleways which I keep being told round where I am are for horses...

So basically I just ride where I want and try to obey rule 1

that includes bridleways which I keep being told round where I am are for horses

#mybikeisnotahorse

It's a daft one and argument back is that's what the law tells us, and we have to ride this shitty horse churned up bridleway (in the case of all the horsey bridleways around Surrey).

Then ride on a footpath and you get the usual hassle there. Again argument back is yeah the law says I have to ride that shitty horse churned up bridleway over there. Have you tried riding a bike on that, or even walking it? ! (added with bike causes less damage to the path than horses or walkers, and stuff it anyway as a Right of Way is an inclusive right, not exclusive).

Still though, something I've observed is moaning people seems to be related to the time of day. Especially on tow paths (shared use). Very polite bunch early morning. All early risers out running or walking dogs, cheery hellos everywhere. Get to lunch and beyond and they've all gone miserable. Slow pootling old folk who jump out of their skin even if you ring a bell a mile away and then give you dirty looks, or deliberately block the path knowing you're there, or joggers with headphones in who don't seem to be having a good time and barely acknowledge your existence once they do notice you. Similar with phone zombies.

Pavements are for pedestrians.

And cyclists.

Slow pootling old folk who jump out of their skin even if you ring a bell a mile away and then give you dirty looks, or deliberately block the path knowing you’re there, or joggers with headphones in who don’t seem to be having a good time and barely acknowledge your existence once they do notice you. Similar with phone zombies.

Yeah I've noticed that too. If I cycle along the TPT very early in the morning to work I see the odd regular dog walker who often says hello and is proactive about securing their dog. Old people jumping out of their skin I can kind of tolerate since well...they are old, and as you say during the day (and particularly at weekends) you get some really passive-aggressive ****s stand two across on the hard-packed part of the trail and force you into the grass or mud.

trying to deal with the completely uncontrolled, unaware average pedestrian who’s not looking where they’re going, not paying attention to their offspring or their dog on an extending lead and who may well suddenly step randomly sideways with no prior indication.

If riding on the pavement puts you in a position where you can't deal with this then get off the pavement.

Bicycles do still belong on the road, they are vehicles, they move at 15-25mph

If you're doing those speeds (or faster) then yes stick to the roads.

Otherwise, do as I do, crack on, ride on the pavement, it's possible to ride slowly you know, and ride accordingly acknowledging the unpredictable nature of pedestrians.

Having said that, I'm not in a busy city with busy roads and busy pavements.

during the day (and particularly at weekends) you get some really passive-aggressive **** stand two across on the hard-packed part of the trail and force you into the grass or mud.

That's a weird one, it's related to time of day but also location.

Go to a honeypot area like Peaks, Dales, Lakes etc and if you're within 200m of a car park, it doesn't matter whether you're riding on a road, gravel track, bridleway or footpath, you'll get oblivious idiots walking along 12 abreast, people who are deliberately obstructive and rude and lots of passive-aggressive tuts and shakes of the head.

Get out into the hills and (IME) it doesn't matter what you're riding on - FP, BW, open moorland - the vast majority of people out there will be "fellow outdoorsy" types who just appreciate that it's taken a lot of effort to get out into the hills, you're all enjoying the scenery and (generally) they'll be absolutely fine with it.

I think speed is the issue. If you’re training, on a club run on a mission in head down mode etc better off sticking to roads. If you’re head up,  pootling at walking pace (as I do when riding my bike to the local shop) then you’re better off on the pavement as long as you’re aware of and give way to peds, stop if necessary. A cheery hello also helps. Not being” dressed as a cyclist” helps as well perhaps. Rule 1 always applies.

Theres somewhere in some law that says something about cycling being an aide to pedestrian/ perambulation or something. Gives the impression that a bike is a more efficient version of walking or to be expected as an aide to a walk or something. Can’t remember th3 source.