Better start with some facts (sorry for the length this post may become):
21 years old. 6"2. 185lbs. Bodyfat 18.5%. Been riding as long as I can remember (BMX & DH). Stopped riding about 3/4 years ago. Got really lazy and done nothing apart from sit on the computer. Bought a hardtail back in June this year. Been riding 3-4 times a week since then.
About 2 years ago though I did join the gym as I was fed up of being lazy, so, jumping on the bike in June wasn't a massive shock to the system (Only cardio wise slightly). I've been training in the gym (weights) for around 2 years 4-5 times a week.
I mainly ride trail centres and XC now and again.
Lately after rides though I feel like I am 70 years old not 21. My lower back aches really really bad. Driving home after rides is agony. The bike was fitted properly in the shop. Could it be my seat position (Too far forward/back or height)? Also my left (only seems to be the left) shoulder blade really aches at the back after long rides. When I take a deep breath/a sigh I can feel it hurting. I train shoulders and back in the gym, Plus my abs at least twice a week so it's not that I have a weak core. Maybe my riding posture? They never ache after the gym. It's only after long rides.
Moving on to my knees. When riding 30km+ my knees really start to ache (Also train legs in the gym). Right on the knee cap of both knees. It's when driving home again the pain becomes apparent whilst in the driving position with them slightly bent. Sort of feels like water on the knee but I don't think it is that, Any ideas?
Finally the most painful, My little finger and ring finger. Climbing they dont hurt, it's only on descents. Today was the worst it has ever been, hurting so bad. My levers are in the best position for me, reach on the levers is fine, just replaced the grips to fatter ones thinking it was the skinny ones making my fingers hurt, also replaced my gloves as my old ones were ripped so I thought I might be holding on extra tight as they were sliding.
The only way I can describe the pain is if you imagine riding a quite bumpy/rocky descent and not holding the bars tight so your little finger and ring finger can bounce up and down and hit the handlebar. It sort of feels like that with added cramp. I work on my grip in the gym too and it was getting slightly better but haven't been for 2 weeks and now the pain is worse.
Could it be my forks? My bike only has an entry level Rock Shox 100mm fork (Dart 3).
What I'd like to know is would upgrading to a higher end fork with slightly more travel be worth it or should I just save that £600 odd and put it towards a full suss? Really can't decide. I do love my hardtail but sometimes all the aches I get make me not enjoy my rides 🙁 Surely it's not normal to have as many aches as I get after every single ride that is over 30km.
Any advice or oppinions greatly appreciated 🙂
It all sounds like riding position related to me.
It's not low end bike components causing it. It's you.
I will say you need to ease the death grip on the bars - you don't need a strong grip to control a bike, quite the contrary. The rest of us don't work on our grip and we do fine.
Watch this: [url= http://www.pinkbike.com/video/199933/ ]Body position[/url]
It's mainly about getting the right position on the bike, but a lot of the stuff about tight hamstrings/hips could be relevant if you're having back pain. I've been doing loads of work on flexibility instead of strength recently and it's definitely made a difference to me. His other videos are worth a look too.
Sounds like it could be a seat height issue. I suffered from lower back pain and knee discomfort during rides last year. I was running my seat too high (I also get knee pain if I run the seat too low). Finding the sweet spot takes a little trial and error.
Get yourself to a decent physio for a check over. I have issues with my lower back, which when it gets bad progresses to upper back / neck. Seems it is hip flexor/tight hamstring related. A couple of deep massage sessions and regular stretching minimalises the pain, though it does come back occassionally.
I've also had knee issues for years after training hard, nothing showed up on mri scans so most likely something to do with gait. Been trying a few things out like inserts in shoes but with limited success.
Also because of the pain, I went for a proper bike fit, which wasn't revolutionary but was nice to put my mind at rest it was the body rather than the bike. Helped set up cleats correctly and shortened stem by 10mm.
TandemJeremy - Member
It all sounds like riding position related to me.
Ditto. I know you say it was fitted by a shop but getting fitted by a shop can be hit and miss.
Thanks everyone.
I train in the gym as I'm trying to bulk up (fed up of being skinny ha) it's not specifically to improve my riding. But I can't rerally see how that would be causing the problems, If anything it would only help by having a stronger overal muscle physique as I know having a weak core can sometimes be the problem for lower back pain.
Just thought it might have been the forks as I like to push the bike to its limits and to be honest I cant feel the forks doing a thing when I'm ploughing down a bumpy descent. Don't want to be a 'bad workman blaming my tools' though. It's deffinitely something more here.
It's not death grip either. I don't cling on and have been keeping a close eye on my grip the last few weeks to see what is going on.
Cheers for that video link though. Looks really good. Will be sure to check them out!
And yeah I think seat height might be to play with my knees. I know you get bad knees from having it too low but didn't know you could from it too high. I do often find myself running it pretty high sometimes when I'm climbing. Will have a play around with it. Cheers!
It's not low end bike components causing it. It's you.
+1.
it does sound like position - as there are so many issues.
what does that mean? i have had my levers rotated up a bit for me this year and some of my grip/ arm pump issues disappeared almost instantly. i had them in a good position for trials - not XC.My levers are in the best position for me
don't make the mistake of thinking core muscles = abs. abs are external core is nore central (in the core)
most importantly do you stretch. after gym after riding and independently.
I had a 3 year break from riding - got into it heavily then a year later had to have a course of physio as i hadn't stretched at all and had a few problems.
I hope you didn't pay for your bike fitting, and if you did, I hope you go back and tell them it was crap.
Bike fitting, along with gait analysis in running circles, is just another way to fleece the weekend warrior.
...and what's most interesting is that you are thinking about fixing the problem by spending more money!
My levers are in the best position for me
what does that mean? i have had my levers rotated up a bit for me this year and some of my grip/ arm pump issues disappeared almost instantly. i had them in a good position for trials - not XC.
+1
Pic of the bike setup would help, but I'd bet money your levers aren't optimally placed right now!
Moving the levers to an optimal position will allow you more control, and to relax your grip and retain control, and it's relaxing your grip that helps reduce fatigue.
Your dart's aren't great forks, but plenty of people still ride rigid. They aren't adjustable though I don't think, so you're probably stuck in that respect.
Going down the gym to build core strength is massively under rated by most people. I was having real problems on the bike only 4 months ago, I've since joined a gym and worked hard on my core strength, and my riding ability has come on strong and my aches and pains have all but disappeared.
Little bit of MTFU required too, you're only 21... I'm 10 years older than you, and I can confirm that aches and pains take longer to disappear as you get older. That said, time spent now optimising your position, setup and reducing any aches and pains that you come across is time well spent for now and the future!
I agree with pretty much everything said above and:
I ride with alot of cyclists who get knee issues and i even had to have an operation on mine to clear out busted cartilage. But the overwhelming conclusion that we all came to was that before we got the issues none of us were stretching nearly enough. It really does help as a warm down.
Specifically stretching your quads(not that the others arnt important) but you have muscles or tendons(im no expert see a physio) that go over your knee cap that link to your quad if these become to tight due to lack of stretching it can cause the pain you refer to.
Also look at the volume of exercise you are doing to your body 4-5 gym sessions a week and 3-4 rides IS ALOT make sure you space them out get the correct recovery, rest, stretching, food etc and dont just work on the big muscle groups the small ones need working on to help stabilise your knees and back etc so you don't get an imbalance.
I could go on but in short see a physio!
Why do you want to bulk up if you're a climber? Surely that's counter productive?
It definitely sounds like a riding position issue. I had knee issues ages ago and re-adjusted my cleats, and hand/wrist problems were fixed by adjusting the bar rotation. There was a great article in MBR about the best position for each component, but it was ages ago so I don't have it. You'll find something online that will help - just grab the Allen keys and have a play!
thomthumb - Member
what does that mean? i have had my levers rotated up a bit for me this year and some of my grip/ arm pump issues disappeared almost instantly. i had them in a good position for trials - not XC.
Could you describe what angle that is?
For years I've had mine so they follow the angle of my fore arm when I'm in the attack ( 😆 ) position. Assume they're a fair amount further up wards than that? I get some kind of cramp on descents meaning I can't brake properly
Cheers guys. I shamefully admit I never used to warm up with stretches before rides. (Always used to in the gym). The last month I have been warming up though with dynamic stretches and cooling down with static stretches.
My flexability is poor though, especially the quads. So will deff be working on some flexability exercies.
AS for overworking out. I always have rest days if I have been cycling or going to the gym for more than 3 consecutive days. Sleep for 8 hours a night and my diet is more than great so I dont think that is the issue with muscles healing.
Regarding being a 'climber'. Im not. I was just staing the pain in my fingers only comes on when descending so I prefer climbing at the moment.
I came from a background of DH. When I was riding full suss I never got any aches or pains, Thats the only reason I was thinking maybe a fork upgrade might help as this bike is a lot more bumpy than I was used to and thats what I feel is causing the finger ache.
I move my levers around numerous times on rides trying to find the optimum position for me and the one they are in now feels most natuarl and comfortable. Not reaching too far for the leavers or bending my arms/wrists too much. I'm lucky I dont get arm pump, it's just my 2 fingers that ache.
As for a physio, Unless the NHS do them (highly doubt that, well i know they do for injuries but for what I want?) I can't afford private at the moment 🙁
[i]Unless the NHS do them (highly doubt that)[/i]
Do you think they spring, fully formed out of the ground?
Yes, the NHS do physios, FFS... 🙄
Unless the NHS do them (highly doubt that)Do you think they spring, fully formed out of the ground?
Yes, the NHS do physios, FFS...
(highly doubt that, [b]well i know they do[/b] for injuries but for what I want?)
Anyway. I know there are none in my local GP Surgery so I guess it's a case of being refferred somewhere. Here goes the waiting list 😯
physio will be alot cheaper than splashing out on new forks.....
I think I pay around £45 for a 40 min session, which is well well worth spending. (wife has a cash plan which pays for it)
NHS physio's I've had experience of are good to, just takes longer to see them
Even if you don't have the money to go to a physio, the fact that you go to the gym means you probably have access to yoga classes - try skipping a weights session each week and give it a try. Also, get the gym instructors to put together a decent stretching program for you to do each day. Guaranteed it'll make you feel better.
Well after all that, my mind's at rest. Here's me, 55, 2 stone overweight, stressed at work & has been to the gym once this year for my fatness test, as I call it, half cut at bedtime,(slept about 4hrs last night) & I still think, 'why am I aching' after 30 miles round Swaledale. Did 37.85 road miles today & after a shower didn't feel as though I'd been out. Apart from an ar$e like a blood orange, ****ing roadie saddle.
Youv'e made me happy, even if i drop down dead tomorrow, which isn't so unlikely. 😳
"I could go on but in short see a physio! "
Jesus Christ!
Take a day off will you please?
Do they pay you or something?
There were many amazingly fit and capable people in the world before pussie boys cried 'See a Physio', 'you need a personal trainer' and 'pilates is what you need'. Bullshit industry. Bullshit philosophy!
Gym?
BULLSHIT
If you can do it and you want to do it there is no need to pay anyone a penny for it.
And again... bullshit bullshit bullshit!
Stop fuelling the deluded age of leeching money from anyone who is stupid enough to pay for things they can do at home... in the park... in their living room. 🙂
"Well after all that, my mind's at rest. Here's me, 55"
You came from a time when men were men and kittens were young cats. These days men are kittens and there is a whole industry that makes millions based on that fact! 🙂
Yeah forget what I said. Do this ^^ instead. 🙄
My mistake - ignore the climber bit. Read the posture bit though - fix that before contemplating a physio.
Well I'm 22, doing a lot of riding at the minute and the other day I struggled to open a bottle of coke because my fingers and wrists are in such pain 😆 Depending on the surface I think that a fork with better high frequency small bump sensitivity might help with the hands. Certainly would for me - my forks don't really have anything in the way of fine tuning and even with highest rebound setting I can feel the forks packing down under high speed bumps, feels like I might as well be riding a rigid at some points 😆
highest rebound setting I can feel the forks packing down under high speed bumps,
Needs less rebound damping then
I thought slower rebound setting made the packing down thing worse? Slower makes it feel terrible for jumping as well.
Less rebound damping = quicker = hare
Flexibility matters - I've done lots of riding this year, little stretching and am now paying the price...
Heavy feet, light hands. Get a copy of Mastering Mountain Bike Skills - it covers pretty much everything!
Less rebound damping = quicker = hare
Oh right I thought it was the other way, don't really understand the terms when it comes to suspension.. it's an old Boxxer so the only tuning it has is in the form of the rebound hare/turtle and that's already all the way toward the hare. Think it's a bit nackered 😆
Is this thread a troll?
A shop fitted the bike, but does it fit you? Sounds like you need to do some mechanical jiggery pokery and forget what the shop set up. My guess is that was static anyway.
60+ PSI in the tyres? It could be a million things, but none of it comes under rocket science.