Talkemada.
How about enjoying your riding [b][u]and[/b][/u] enjoying doing it on nice kit? The 2 are not as you seem to think mutually exclusive.
The fact that your mates used to enjoy riding more on their less expensive kit is more a reflection on you than them. Are you seriously saying that you actually enjoy riding less now that you don't use XTR? This is just as unlikely as it is to suggest that somebody with nice kit enjoys their riding less. You are confusing enjoyment of riding and enjoyment of your bike.
It is possibe to have a nice bike, and enjoy riding it. It is also possible to have an old, cheap bike and enjoy riding it. I would never dismiss the latter, yet people do seem jealously motivated to dismiss the former. I say jealous, because why else whould they do it?
And, having invested in XX (yes, invested!), it would be nice to think that I'll get many seasons of enjoyment out of it, and get the benefit of its technology before it is superseeded. That's only natural. I tend to buy god kit partly because it lasts.
That's the beauty of planned obsolesence.....it keeps you nervous, and ready to spend
It is possibe to have a nice bike, and enjoy riding it. It is also possible to have an old, cheap bike and enjoy riding it. I would never dismiss the latter, yet people do seem jealously motivated to dismiss the former. I say jealous, because why else whould they do it?
Do you concede that being 'nervous' about a new groupset coming out in case it's better than yours isn't exactly a healthy attitude?
Are you seriously saying that you actually enjoy riding less now that you don't use XTR?
Eh?
If anything, I probably enjoy riding more these days, as I've got better on the bike, and have learned how to equip a bike that fits my needs. You can't buy experience.
I'm not knocking you having whatever kit you want on your bike. Up to you. I just think it's silly to fret over the possible 'benefits' that new kit might bring you. Just enjoy what you've got already.
If your rides may include a decent stretch of road, I would disagree.
Why? I do about 7 miles on the road to get to the trails. Is a 42/11 really not a big enough gear for your gargantuan power output?
Is there not a link here:
- People with cheap components: "expensive components don't improve enjoyment"
- People with nice components: "I enjoy riding more with nice components"
Whilst I could do all the riding I do on a £100 Apollo, it wouldn't be as much fun. On occasions when I've ridden demo bikes from the shop, say a £2000 Stumpy, it's not as much fun, it's substantially heavier than my own bikes and don't tend to work as well.
It's basically just reverse snobbery isn't it? Surely it's all about whether you can/want to buy the expensive stuff, which is a personal choice!
I must admit, I wouldn't have sold a perfectly good groupset to buy XX, if I had, I think I'd have been a bit disappointed, it's good, but not [i]that [/i]good. As it is, when building a new bike I will very likely opt for it, just as I would've opted for XTR/X.0 previously! Riding my bikes makes me happy, having nice bikes makes me happy, I spend very little money on anything other than bikes, so I'm happy to spend a lot for what may be deemed small gains.
Because you don't want to/can't afford to, and enjoy your riding just as much with Deore components doesn't really make any difference surely!
Now, one of your poor people, shine my shoes.
There's definately a place for it, but what I would like to see would be more ring choices so you could easily customise a chainset. I posted about this, pretty sure you can only get replacement rings in the same size.
The other thing is one bike owners like me. My MTB has to do everything and be ready for race day, so the extra 7 gears are worth it to me.
[i]Well, I'm more into the riding, being with friends, enjoying the countryside/scenery, that sort of thing... [/i]
So am I. But nice kit just adds to that pleasure. However I will agree that being "nrevous" about a new groupset is a bit odd. The only people who should be nervous are the people selling it, not the people buying it.
Grum - Nope. I think it only natural having splashed out on something new and shiny that you want it to stay new and shiny, and not be immediately superseeded.
And, let's get things in perspective. There's nervous and there's nervous! I am not laying awake at night worrying about Shimano's next attempt to ruin my otherwise perfect life!
But (shock, horror, hope you are sitting down for the next bit!), XX isn't perfect, and I am not in the habit of replacing kit until it wears out. So, if Shimano decided to address some of XX's shortcomings with XTR, I would naturally feel slightly disappointed with my purchase. Hence my "nervousness". Perhaps a combination of the wrong choice of phrase and a misunderstanding of intent.
I could of course go out and buy an 8 speed Alivio groupset, which apparently would improve my enjoyment of riding no end, but like a fool I prefer lighter, nicer, better performing kit. One day I'll see the light, but by then, even Alivio will be 2 x 10 as " next years big idea" will have become everyday, mundane and acceptable.
However I will agree that being "nrevous" about a new groupset is a bit odd.
+1
Everything will become obsolete at some point, particularly in this industry with constant brand one-upmanship!
Who cares?
It's just gears. The least interesting part of a bike.
And the one which can most commonly ruin a ride.
- People with cheap components: "expensive components don't improve enjoyment"
- People with nice components: "I enjoy riding more with nice components"
People with both: Life's too short to waste it worrying about the Next Big Thing... 😉
TBH, whenever I need a new bit, I just buy whatever's on special offer on CRC or whatever, as I'm sick of being ripped-off for stuff that costs peanuts to actually make. Deore/SLX/XT level is fine; offers a decent level of quality for the price. Next set of shifters I buy, I might go for XTR, as I know they are better than the lower models. Front mechs and stuff like that; pfft, Deore. Why waste money?
nah punctures do that
as long as your freehub works there's always a trail side fix
Funny, I'd have said that XTR shifters offer no performance advantage over Deore (though they feel smoother they don't actually affect the shift at the cassette) based on my experience of swapping between them...
Blimey, this thread has changed more times than Dr Who!
Who'd have thought such an unassuming discussion would have generated such debate?!
People with both: Life's too short to waste it worrying about the Next Big Thing
My commuter bike has Tiagra, it's sh1t. Even with brand new cables and cleaned perfectly the shifting is dire compared to the Dura Ace on my Madone, the brakes don't even compare either.
I don't worry about the 'next big thing' in fact, I don't give a sh1t about what it is per se, but if I think it's an appreciable upgrade, I'll buy it!
If XTR shifters feel better, isn't that a performance upgrade?
- People with cheap components: "expensive components don't improve enjoyment"
- People with nice components: "I enjoy riding more with nice components"
I like nice components if I can afford them but I am realistic about how much of an actual advantage they give you, and I try not to torture myself thinking about what might be out there that's better.
You can run teh same range of gears 2X9 as 2x10 just the spread is different, fairly easily done as well, yet it's not been hugely popular?
I'm quite happy to see how the early adopters get on with ten speed blocks, before passing any form of judgement.
The narrowness of the chain still worries me aprticularly the fact that 10speed powerlinks aren't reuseable, after a really nasty wet weather ride my chain comes off into a tub of degreaser and then gets washed and lubed, that option is removed without adding a new link to the chain, which I'm not mad about. At the moment that's the biggest issue for me.
To get advantage of the wide ratio block you're having to use cross over gears which makes the drive train less efficient and increases wear surely?
Or have teh wonders of ten speed cassettes suddenly made cross over gears a thing of the past?
I get that the chain line is reduced by only using two rings up front but that's all I run on a road bike and I try to avoid crossover gears like the? plague
If XTR shifters feel better, isn't that a performance upgrade?
Not IMO - they don't actually make the shifting any better, they just feel a bit more solid/less rattly. No performance advantage in what they're designed to do - eg move the rear mech.
A bit like having a deeply padded steering wheel on your car, say - it maybe feels a little nicer to hold but it steers the car exactly the same.
upgrading my shorts makes a smoother ride!!
...and, having a dump before hand makes me go faster to!
Deeply padded steering wheels are for mini cabs, along with beaded seat covers. And I would definitely disagree that it feels better.
Yey, another random change of direction for the thread!
Raouligan, to steal from Keith Bontrager:
2 x 9 - High Gear, Low Gear, Good Range inbetween - Pick 2
2 x 10 - High Gear, Low Gear, Good Range inbetween - Pick 3
I think the new Doctor is much better than that Godawful irritating **** Neil Tennant, and his new Assistant Amy Pond is miles better than Catherine Bleedin' Tate.
Speshly in that little policewoman's outfit...
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The narrowness of the chain still worries me aprticularly the fact that 10speed powerlinks aren't reuseable,
KMC powerlinks are replacable, plus I've been using 10 speed chains on my MTB for about 18 months now - no problems.
The narrow chain is just fine. It has been well proven on the road for years now, proven over a winter off road, and there is not much about mud and conditions off road that would make the chain any more likely to break than it would on the road.
Chains stretch just the same, they flex just the same. The abrasion of off road conditions wears the chainrings, not the chain. Chains generally only wear and break by the action of stretching and flexing, not by abrasion. They are made of so much harder material than the rest of the drivetrain.
6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 speed chains have always been the same between road and off-road useage. The Dura Ace and XTR 9 speed chains were always identical.
I've had a middleburn duo for 11 years. It's run 7, 8 and 9 out back. Guess what the difference has been? Chuff all
njee20Why? I do about 7 miles on the road to get to the trails. Is a 42/11 really not a big enough gear for your gargantuan power output?
Of course it is - but you don't have it on the double setups he was on about.
no way talkmada, sylvester mccoy is the dr who daddy
bigrich. Are you seriously saying that there is no difference between the range of usable gears and the spacing between 7 out back (14 in total) and 10 out back (20 in total)?
That's stretching it a bit surely? There are gears somewhere in the range that you simply don't have with 2 x 7 that you do with 2 x 10. On the basis of 'you don't miss what you have never had', then I agree with you, but factually, your statement doesn't hold up.
Blasphemy!
Tom Baker FTW (for those of a certain age)
jon pertwee wasnt bad even if he went on to greater thinks as wurzel gummage
S**T! Why did I mention bleedin' Dr Who?!!
1st the cavement take over the thread, now it's the sci-fi geeks!
What's wrong with bike geeks discussing bike gear with other bike geeks?!
And anyway, clearly Baker is the superior Dr Who. The new one wouldn't know the benefit of a 2 x 10 set up if it hit him in the face.
thanks, aunt sally !
Italspark; Original XTR (8spd?) was made of better metal than the current stuff. In fact, older Deore and Deore XT were probably actually better [i]quality[/i] than the current stuff. I've got wheels with old XT hubs, still running smoothly maybe 20 years on. Stuff then was undoubtedly heavier, but it lasted a lot longer than today's 'wear it out- chuck it out' crap.
Now, that was a groupset:
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Yep.
Pedal until knackered then change up.
Although I was 18 when it was 7, 21 when it was 8 and fat when it was 9.
In conclusion, who cares? The only people who need 2x10 get given it for free.
Pertwee? Pah, 3 x 7 Alivio in a 2 x 10 XX world!
I've just had a quick re-read of Sheldon, and that's pretty much confirmed my prejudice of crossover gearing and the advantages of using a triple.
Maybe for racing and for people changing kit quite a lot they'll be great.
i hear campag euclid is on the way back
Yep.
Pedal until knackered then change up.
Although I was 18 when it was 7, 21 when it was 8 and fat when it was 9.
In conclusion, who cares? The only people who need 2x10 get given it for free.
Euclid. Now that really was a groupset, as was the original XTR pictured. But Campagnolo 11 speed off road? Some people on here would explode at the blasphemy!
20 year old XT hubs? And you have the balls to accuse me of not riding enough?!! Get 'em ridden and worn out!
Of the recent Doctors, I think Bernie Ecclescake was good, but Neil Tennant was soooo irritating. Couldn't stand him. The new Doctor is a bit weird, a bit geeky, scruffy and mysterious, like Doctor Who should be. Amy Pond is sexy and attractive, but the sort of girl you could meet on a night out, get drunk with and arrange to meet the following weekend for a nice meal in Rasa's in Stoke Newington Church St. Maybe a drink later at the Auld Shillelagh, but don't be expecting too much because she's a nice lass and you might want to settle down with her.
Yeah I still like on a triple how I can slam from fast downhill to steep uphill in 3 clicks.
ELECTRIC SHIMANO XTR.
XTRii....15SPD ,4 CHAINRINGS,CARBON TUBS WHEELS WEIGHING 230GS FOR THE SET.!!!!!
just wait sram will look soo silly soon..
bruce
Talkemada - that sounds like quite an incredibly detailed and overly-thought fantasy! See my comment above. You definitely need to get out and ride more.
ooOOoo - you can still do that with 2 up front, but you only need to shift once instead of twice. Already you can see the benefits!
Bikebruce - 15 speed with 4 chainrings. How's that going to work then? Honestly, even the standard of maths in the heckling is deteriorating round here!
He means 15x4, we don't talk about 21/24/27 speed, keep up!
confirmed my prejudice of crossover gearing and the advantages of using a triple.
Crossover gears are much lessened with a double, big/big effectively becomes middle/big, how have people not realised this!? I can confirm that XX runs really nicely in 42/36, it's probably not ideal from a wear POV, but I'll use it, particularly in a race.
