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thoughts please? probably gonna purchase a set of these, run a pacestar on the back and trailstar on the front, like the look of the tread pattern, looks like a good all rounder type tyre
it looks like it may be a bit slow rolling, but im going to get a pacestar rear one so its hopefully a bit quicker as per someones recommendation yesterday
looking forward to trying them, ive got some rubber queens at the mo and fancy trying something different!
told you - chunky monkeys!
I like that combination on my Yeti. Bit draggier on the road than the Nobby Nics I had before, but the grip offroad is great.
For the amount of grip they give I don't think they drag too much.
They're not great in mud and they wont go on my arch ex's but they handle rocky stuff very well.
Not an all-rounder though imo
Stick with the Rubber Queens unless you want similar drag & less grip. Same as yesterday 😉
I fell for the 'cheap HD PSA' last week, so got some of these!
I had nics before - I just had no confidence in them so wanted to try the HDs.
Been out once so far, but for now I can tell they are:
Fatter - 2.35 on paper, but come up 2.4. The Nics were 2.2
As far as I can tell off road, they 'drag' the same as Nics - in fact, they are both pretty fast rolling tires.
Much grippier - either due to size or tread.
All in, I'm happy...
DrP
I love them, use them all year round on my Nomad.
I looked into Hans Damfs but the skitty performance of my last Schwalbs (Big Betties) on wet roots and rocks had me pressing the button for Rubber Queens BC again.
Non UST is my choice as I found the UST carcass gives less feel.
grippy, a bit heavy for an 'allround' tyre IMO but good if you're into the downs and don't care about the pace of the alongs and ups (ie an 'enduro' style tyre, which doesn't mean all-round to me)
I had 29x2.35, sold them, bigger than I needed
not tried the comparable OnOnes but have buddies that ride them and like them
Ran these front and rear but ditched the rear pacestar as it was a bit too draggy. Still running them as a front on both bikes as the grip is phenomenal (just not in the thickest mud). Need to wear the tread a bit too before they tackle wet roots IMO.
In real heavy slop, they will not be as good as a full on mud tyre, but on my 29er I have a pair of trailstar compound HDs, and I think they are transformative in the amount of grip they offer in all conditions. Amazing. Draggier than Prisila Queen of the Desert though, feel really heavy.
Kev
hmmm the weight/rolling thing - surely as my rubber queen 2.2 UST weigh approx 820 grams each and have what looks to me not as effective rolling pattern (centre knobs on the rubber queen are not flat like the HD) surely they wont be any worse rolling than the RQ's i have?
i know alot of you folks run normal tyres that weigh ~600grams so is this why they suddenly feel draggy? or will they really feel draggier than my rubber queens at 820grams?
OW, i honestly don't think these are too draggy, it depends on where and what you ride. These tyres excel offroad. BUT if you spend a lot of time on hardpack or tarmac then i doubt they will be for you.
i think i need to get my head out of the 'i need less draggy tyres for road sections' mentality
as everything its a tradeoff, i cant have a super fast rear tyre just for the road sections then expect to have major grip off road in wettish condtions etc...
i dont know why i suddenly started to think like that, but i need to switch off from it
ok i dont want it megggga draggy on the rear on road, but as long as its not sticking to the tarmac im sure ill be ok
i still think it cant possibly be that much more draggier on road/hardpack than my rubber queen though, it save a bit of weight too, unless some one can correct me of course 🙂
I think they're great - I don't find them that draggy but my previous tyres were Maxxis High Rollers / Minions (super tacky front with a 60a rear). Personally I prefer them to the Minion that I had on the front (but I am in the minority and preferred the High Roller up front to the Minion).
I run mine tubeless and they certainly feel much lighter to pedal than the Maxxis tyres they replaced, but they are lighter so it is to be expected.
Mine seem to grip well in most surfaces - not many all rounders will shine in slop. I like the large volume and run them at pretty low pressures and haven't had any real issues. I've got a lot of confidence in the tyres/
I didn't find them excessively draggy, just a bit heavy in terms of rotational mass on a 29er.
Basically, they're trail riding tyres not XC/allround tyres. If you're good with that, get them.
If you don't get on with them, you'll be able to pass them on without a huge loss.
They went up very easily tubeless on my Crests by the way.
You priority in a tyre should be where you use it most. i.e. offroad!
They do drag a bit but I don't really notice it when riding, you can certainly hear them on the road though. They're been my favourite tyre for a while now (previous was RQ's but HD's are better in every way apart from drag and they're very similar in that regard IME). Also been running a Spesh Purgatory on the front of a spare wheel and that works well to, still it's the predictability of the HDs that wins for me. I'd agree with someone above that they're not amazing in mud as they do clog in thick/clayey mud but then most tyres do, I don't think they're any worse than similar tyres (RQ, Purgatory etc) in the mud though.
cheers folks - whats the worst that can happen, ill keep my RQ's just incase, but if i dont like HD sure i can sell them for similar!
mattg- did they go up with a track pump? will be going up on flows so hopefully a nice easy job
im sure they cant drag any more than my current RQ's and im use to UST tyres as thats all i've ever run so it wont be a big surprise to me going from something lighter to these
^ This
Draggy on road = extra fitness
Slippery off road = ouch
I got very tied up in all round tyre performance. Try as I might I kept on coming back to MK protections with BC. Really like them!
compared to what they replaced (super tacky high rollers, 2.35"), they roll amazingly well i find. and they're just as grippy, if not more so.
that's been my experience so far anyway.
well im defo gonna get the pacestar for the rear, at least im getting the 'fastest' version of it possible, and then ill get a trailstar for the front
to be honest my RQ's clog in thick mud, i dont know a tyre that doesnt be honest, but i dont ride in thick mud and if its awful out ill chose a different route to avoid it, its was mucky/muddy last night but the ground is still relatively hard underneath so its not boggy, RQ's deal with that fine so im sure these should be just the same
will give em a punt, why not!
does anyone know which is the cheapest german place to get them? ive only looked on action sports at the mo?
yup with a track pump.
I whacked 'em on, pumped em up, the beads sealed dob on with no sealant or leaks. (Then I put some sealant in via the valve).
You can get the pair, PaceStar/TrailStar, from bike-discount.de at a decent price.
No complaints at all re the tyres, just they were more rubber than I needed to push around for my needs. I do find 2.35 tyres deaden the trail down a bit more than I want, but this is down south, no rocks here.
There are better tyres out there.
I'd rather run a Rubber Queen out front and a Mountain King 2 out back, but only in BC.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: Weight does not affect rolling resistance, it's a myth which the magazines repeat over and over again. Rolling resistance is affected by energy loss in the tyre through hysteresis and internal friction, which is down to the tyre construction and materials used.
Higher TPI carcasses tend to lower energy loss. Harder compounds tend to lower energy loss. The black chili Continentals have high TPI carcasses plus the nano particles reduce hysteresis hugely despite being soft and sticky so they roll much better than the non-German Continentals.
The reason dual ply tyres are so horrible to pedal is not that they're heavy, it's because there's a ton of energy loss happening in the carcass. The nice Hans Dampfs have harder compound carcasses to reduce the hysteresis loss but not as well the the black chili does. But I'm curious to hear the results of your experiment!
I'll buy your RQs if you don't want them...
Stick a Mountain King, X-King or Speed King on the back for less rolling resistance.
Weight does not affect rolling resistance
It does affect rotational mass though. Heavier things take more energy to cart about, especially when they are rotating a long way from a hub.
Rolling downhill though, they'll presumably roll better as all that potential energy is converted back to kinetic energy and momentum. (I think, that's probably a bit of Star Trek physics there).
It does affect rotational mass though. Heavier things take more energy to cart about, especially when they are rotating a long way from a hub.
29ers are the obvious example here. Slower to get up to speed, but easier to maintain momentum with.
cheers chief, will keep you posted on the outcome, at least ill know myself if the RQ is actually draggy as a rear or if its just me wishing it was faster, sure its the latter!
pimpmaster - ill keep you in mind, ill see how i get on with them first before selling the RQ's, also ive got a x king out back too, its lasted me about 5 months from new and its now worn, ie no grip when it turns wet, they dont do a x king BC ust, which is probably why its worn so shit, if they did id consider it, also the same for the MK2 - no black chili UST, i read something yesterday that said the black chili compound makes rolling efficiency 27% faster, not sure whether that was against a non bc conti or another brand, but its impressive stat wise!
i do rate the RQ's though, im not 100% sure im gonna swap them for the HD yet, im gonna ride a few more times with the RQ on the rear before deciding
I have HD's on my enduro and run them tubeless. I really like them, they are a high volume tire and offer loads of grip in most situations. I also have not punctured with them at all and always puncture on the rough rocky stuff with Maxxis and tubes.
They are OK on the climbs but because of the volume/tread will never be the fastest. On the downs is where they come into there own. I have yet to find a situation where I wanted a different tire on an descent. Because of the slight drag I run the rear pretty hard at 40 psi front at around 30. But i am around 100 kg, I'm tall honestly ha ha.
Overall for the 55 quid I paid for a pair of tubeless great gripping tires I am very happy. The pros far out weigh the cons for me. And I think they are a good enduro tire, spin your way to the top and go as fast as you can to the bottom. Wear seems pretty minimal as well.
Recommended, especially if you get them at a good price!
61 quid for a pair delivered from bikediscount - seems bloody cheap compared to the uk prices!
worth a punt i reckon
worth a punt i reckon
'twas my ethos approach to the whole matter...
To be frank, you've dissected the situation to it's bare core, so I'd just go ahead and order them!!
DrP
haha drp! i have too much time to think about these things to indepth, though i do like testing out new rubber and way i see it is if i dont like them i bet ill get back the 61quid on ebay for them anyways
and then ill just stick with the RQ's
looking forward to trying them now
cheers - mactheknife (from stereophonics song?), the set works out about 6quid cheaper, result luckily i had spotted this before individually buying them
I reckon you can get a few more threads out of your tyre choice dilemma.
You wouldn't want to leave any stones unturned would you?
I got mine from bike discount - very quick service and cant fault them. Also, much cheaper than I could find them for in the UK.
They are my first venture into tubeless tyres and they inflated really easily on my Havoc's with just a track pump. I was convinced that I was going to end up swearing a lot.
I'm not one for changing tyres much, once I find something that I like I tend to stick to it but took a punt on these and have been very happy. I went with the trailstar on the front and pacestar on the rear.
chakaping - Member
I reckon you can get a few more threads out of your tyre choice dilemma.You wouldn't want to leave any stones unturned would you?
bad innit 😆
im done now though, if these are no good ill stick with RQ's all round, if they are good then bonus!
no more tyre threads i promise 🙂
no more tyre threads i promise
It's nice to see someone else wastes just as much time thinking about tyres as I do!!! 😉
righty quick report - back one went on with a track pump easy! front one turned out to be my fault, the tape had folded on my flow rims, and thinking i could get away with it (it alsways sealed with UST), i couldnt, bit of a faff had to take the tape off clean, blah blah new tape (legendary lbs), then it went up first time again!
so yeah very easy to mount tubeless with a track pump!
size wise they seem smaller both volume and width wise than my 2.2 ust conti rubber queens, similar but slightly less volume, although im led to believe the newer RQ's have changed slightly in size?
the snakeskin sidewalls seem just as thick hand in hand than my RQ UST's which filled me with huge confidence (peak district rocks) as ive felt TL ready tyres before and the sidewalls are stupidly thin!
i got the pacestar rear and a trailstar front
on the road sections linking up the off road sections they drag a bit (ive been running a stupidly fast X king before putting these on), but and i repeat in no way do they feel any draggier than a 2.2 ust BC RQ on the rear either, so they are in my opinion just the same speed (marginal either way which is quickest i really couldnt tell)
off road the hans dampf wins no doubts, remember this is the trailstar (softer) version on the front, which is comparable to a black chili RQ feel wise on the knobs, i defo prefer the hans dampf, its bloody grippy as a front tyre (not to say the RQ isnt, it is), ive used it today in the shit english weather, including, super slippy fast grassy/rocky descents, roots in woods, rocks, BW' descents, fireroad, road etc and off road in the slippy damp weather it just grips, at no point on todays ride did i lose my front end (ive had not many episodes with the RQ, but did have some on roots)
this just seemed to stick and dig in at the front (28 psi), was especially grippy on a section off cheeky FP where you can get upto 30mph with some cheeky jumps etc and soaked wet through its slippy and fast with corners, divets, erosion etc and it just gripped, at no point did it wash out at all, very very very impressed
onto the back, this is pacestar version (a little faster and harder compound), its as i say equally as fast as a RQ ust 2.2 on the back both on and off road, it does feel a little draggy going from a x king out back but of course thats normal to feel as thats fast as hell! it gripped in climbs on sections that were greasy,wet lethal etc, where as my x king has been failing miserably (hence the change to these) but i did spin out on climbing a few rooty sections, that said they are roots, it was sopping wet and i probably was expecting a little to much, im not sure any tyre i used today to climb the rooty sections would have cleared, especially as i am running the rear at 33psi, so not a soft grippy tyre pressure at all, more so a bit higher for the road secitons...everything else climb wise it gripped and tracked well, descending almost landslide conditions it braked and locked well without skidding, something my x king was awful at
its a good combination, i defo prefer it to the RQ on the front, but its very similar to RQ on the rear it wouldnt bother me which i had on the back out of the two, but given the choice i think the HD on the front is a lot more inspiring than the RQ
im not slating the RQ's by the way, i still love them, they are great tyres the BC ones in UST, a bit heavy but still a great all rounder, i just fancied a change, and im glad i did
anyways crap write up over, to sum it up chuffed to bits having a HD trailstar on the front, the back is just the same to me as a RQ, so again a quality combination!
quick update
front tyre is absoultly amazing in wet or dry conditions, i seriously cannot get over how much grip this thing has on the front! im so impressed with it! its staying on
however, i cant get on with it on the back 🙁 its absoultly power sapping on techy steep peak district climbs, honestly the road sections dont seem to slow (only as slow as the RQ's it replaced) but its just honestly power sapping on the back, i love climbing, and i love nailing climbs, the climbs i nailed on 2 seperate occassions felt a million times harder than with something a bit quicker on the back...its grippy and doesnt slip like my x king did, but its just power sapping is all i can say, seriously felt draggy off road where i just didnt expect it too and thought it would be a lot worse on the road
so im going to sell the HD pacestar on the back, and im going to get a nobby nic UST for the rear, they are quick enough (used them before) quicker than a RQ or HD on the rear with decent all round grip, still defo keeping the HD on the front though!
Funny how it is all relative because I don't find HD pace star on the rear at all problematic climbing off road, not as quick as the semi slicks on my HT but OK. They are a pain in the ass when it's proper muddy and the cornering feel takes some getting used too. The sheer volume of the things and the stiff sidewalls does make then feel very safe when barrelling down rocks and ruts. Overall quite a good choice for techy trail riding IMO.
Had my first experience of the dampfs this weekend. I'm also happy with them. The front is not as grippy as my RQ BC was (had an early wash out) but I got used to them, adjusted my riding and they are a winner. I think they're a bit quicker rolling than the RQs, but there's not a lot in it. It'll be Interesting to see how they hold up.
interesting you two have totally different experiences to me, i do find the front a better tyre than the rq 2.2 ust bc it replaced defo, its got all sorts of grip thats better for me, id assume its the taller side knobs
i reckon the RQ on the rear is a little quicker OFF road (on the road no difference at all), but the RQ never felt power sapping to me on climbs
worth trying a few different tyres anyways! ill try something a little faster on the back either a Nobby Nice or Racing Ralph
Have you got a cold or low level virus making you feel more tyred?