[Closed] Safe commuting (Survey)

5 years but on average only twice a week (more in summer, less in winter)

0

0

I have had to take evasive action more than once though, including banging on the side of the bus that was a few metres longer than its driver thought.

DezB

I find it amazing that you don't feel being able to hear cars coming up behind you is relevant! If I'm rolling along and I can hear an aggressive/fast driver coming behind I'll make a conscious effort to make myself visible as they get me in sight. Or if a car rolls by and then audibly slows as it is on my shoulder I'll be alert that he might be trying to turn left. Or if a car is waiting for a chance to overtake me and is getting impatient - that is very clear from the engine noise too.

Maybe you just don't make any allowances for those things - personally I need to be able to get a clue what the guy behind me is doing/feeling so I can decide if I need to assert myself (if it isn't safe for them come by) or so that I can wave them through if it is safe. Don't you do any of that?

It amazes me that some people are all for passive safety (ie helmet wearing) and then do very little with active safety.

Glen - its a different discussion, that I don't want to get into. But as I said, in my experience it hasn't made any difference to my safety whatsoever.

It is off topic, I agree.

But you are completely wrong!

Fair enough!

12 years.
I have hospitalised 1 pedestrian and been hit but uninjured once by a car.

Plenty of crashed due to ice,snow, gravel, etc in that time.

I use an iPod, i find it makes me more chilled out when the car drivers do something dangerous and as i keep it fairly quiet i am aware of cars around me.

1. Around 7 years.

2. Never. Or a half if we can count pedestrian interactions rather than vehicular ones. A wee old woman stepped off in front of me. Braked to avoid her and both bike and I somersaulted over the bars. I went to A&E the next day to be told that yes, I had dislocated my shoulder.

3. 5. Two ped incidents (the one above, the other was closer to being a case of assault), a bus overtook and pushed me onto the pavement, and the other two were when they pulled out, realised I was going faster than they expected, and stopped right in my path. Both very minor bumps in the end with no damage done. But hey, those new Renault's are bouncy!

1. 6 years, roughly, mostly in Edinburgh. Wildly varying mileage. Probably 10k-15k miles overall?

2. none

3. 3 times.

First one was on my way to a Sat morning MTB ride and a pedestrian just walked out in front of me without looking when I was about 10 feet away - couldn't do anything, hit him in the stomach with bars and landed hard on top of him. I was OK. He less so. Bus behind me locked up and stopped about 6 feet short. Both very lucky not to get hit by bus I reckon.

Second time a cock in a Golf pulled out on me at a junction - he looked straight at me then went anyway and I went into the side of him hard enough to twist the bars. Then he just smiled at me and drove off. I chased him down the Grassmarket, got a reg and description and went to the Police. No witnesses so not a lot I could do, but police at least followed it up and he was called in for interview under caution which would have hopefully put the shits up him if nothing else.

Third time, about a couple of weeks after #2, a woman did the classic "nearly overtake and turn left" on me and took me off. Lucky not to get squashed between her and barriers. Picked up some bruises and a bit of road rash. Bent bars and scraped shifters which she refused to pay for when I presented her with the bill - BC solicitors went after her and I got my Soul frame with the compo.

1 and 2 I couldn't have done anything about, 3 taught me a bit about road positioning and a lot about ignoring cycle lanes if they put you in a dangerous position on the road.

1. 18 of last 25
2. 1 - Hit by a car during a time trial - broken elbow, chipped pelvis and 32 stitches in arm after removal of part of the car's wing mirrow.
3. 2 - once when stationary at a red light, second when hit by car overtakeing on a pelican crossing (watched by a bobby on the beat!) to discov er someone crossing hence I was going "too slowly"!

Way more off road injuries before I realised I'm never going to be anything but clumsy on a bike!

commuting 19yrs on and off more on than off
1 x hospitalised with a broken ankle which was my fault
knocked off twice by cars but without injury - second time I headbutted the floor and went to get checked at the docs, just bruising, no serious injury.

1. Three years pretty solidly, having done it a bit in the past. Short commute though, less than five miles unless I choose to make it longer.

2. Never badly injured (so far...) I'm quite cautious and assume the worst of all other road users. I wave to drivers a lot and wouddn't wear headphones riding on the road.

3. Never knocked off. A few times I have avoided it quite spectacularly, like crashing into a wall to miss a minibus which turned across me (coming from the opposite direction) in Leeds. This year the score is one each between me and the pedestrians of Glasgow, I've knocked one down (chain jumped off/hit pothole/mounted pavement) and one has walked into me travelling quite fast.

Unless you're wearing headphones, in which case you just aren't safe imo.

and if you happen to be deaf you're unsafe?

As a person with partial hearing I find that incredibly offensive, to assume that because you can't hear, either by birth or choice that you suddenly lose the ability to cycle safely is utter moo-poo, especially with the cacophony of urban and wind noise drowning out a lot of it.

while I'll happily admit that in some cases being able to hear the revs *might* help it's not a pre-requisite of safe cycling.

and for the record:

1. 8 years
2. 0
3. Only physically knocked off once

All the times that it's resulted in a near miss or actual impact where someone has passed and then turned left, there has been absolutely no indication that they are going to turn, and I'm watching for it, believe me. They pass like a car that is going straight on and invariably indicate/brake/turn simultaneously and then they're in front and there's nowhere to go.

if I slowed down for every car that floors it past me I'd never get moving.

1 10 years
2 None
3 Lost count of the times I've had to take evasive action, hopping onto the kerb or ending up in the hedge as a result of being overtaken too closely . . . I do try to ride assertively . . . sometimes I think my bright orange bike is invisible 🙄

1 properly about 10 years
2 never
3 twice, once on my paper round as a nipper , was proper comedy, i kinda new milkman hadnt seen me but carried on past the junction anyway pedaling furiously on my bmx while electric float gently cruzed into me, my pedal cracked his number plate
second, **** trying to switch lanes in a traffic queue- no indicator, but i managed to see it comming just ended up sprawled accross his bonnet, his first concern was had i damaged his car?!!

1. 12 yrs
2. 0
3. 2

Both hits were in bright daylight, clear roads. First one driver came out of a side junction straight into me, I was the only thing on the road and in a dayglo yello jacket. Second one I was the only thing on a roundabout, car came on to roundabout and hit me side on. Got away with roadrash both times.

First thing both drivers said was "I didn't see you"!

oh yeah and ipod is fine imho

to drown out the noise of traffic would need the volume so loud id be deaf anyway

and playing music in a car, which is soundproofed anyway, is fine whats wrong with it on a cycle?

I guess the seriously injured (and worse) won't be posting on here anyway.
🙁

Thing is - cycling is safe. Serious injuries are few and far between as are deaths.

Killed 136
Seriously Injured 2,428 (recent figures)

total distance cycled - 4.5 billion in 1996

1) 35+ yrs.
2) 0
3) 0

Everyday some bastid has a go, though! 😕

1. 10 years commuting manchester/sheffield
2. 0
3. 1 knackered wheel when a car pull out in front of me which left me with only one option.

1. 25 years (North London - Plymouth) although not for the last 5 years due to health issues
2. Just once, more my fault than the drivers (i cramped up and rolled into traffic)
3. Suprisingly not too many a few funny ones

Simonk

1. 4 years in Glasgow.
2. 0.
3. 3. Old woman on Sunday morning overtook and turned left ontop of me putting me down on the tarmac. Just grazes but couldn't unclip and was using every swear word I knew at full volume (angry Doug back in those days 🙁 ) only to look up at a queue of very shocked people waiting to get into a church! I caught her but she was almost crying and wouldn't wind down the window. Eventually she did and I explained that she almost killed me and she was very upset! Other two are from punching and kicking cars so not a good reflection on me I'm afraid, did something bad to my knuckle on a ned's corsa and damaged a toe on the front lights of some tosser in Edinburgh both times the driver had deliberately tried to edge me off the road.

So in summary: Health Detriments - none, Health Benifits - 70 miles a week for 4 years.

1.years have you been commuting by bike? -25 years

2. times have you been badly injured (ie. hositalised) whilst commuting (let's expand it to any road riding)- yes, once

3. times have you been knocked off or otherwise shunted by a vehicle with no injuries, once

1. On & off for 20+ yrs, different routes & frequencies

2. 1 - Hit a Skoda at 20 that pulled out (didn't see me) headstand over the bonnet & concussion

3. 3 (just in the last year, would be many more if I go backwards) Car swerved across a roundabout & clipped me. Car pulling out from side turning into standing traffic & didn't look down the bus lane it was crossing. Car approaching standing traffic waiting to turn right swerved into the curb as it passed me & came to a halt.

My current comute is across Sheffield city centre and back, so I expect & get alot of near misses, thankfully they only clip me a few times a year.

glenp - Member
Re cars turning left on you - if a car comes past as you approach a left turn always eyeball the driver as they come by (can also try a slight move to the side to catch his attention).

You can hear when a car lifts off the gas to turn - it shouldn't take you by surprise. Unless you're wearing headphones, in which case you just aren't safe imo.

[i]1. years have you been commuting by bike?[/i]
- just over 3 years (daily)

[i]2. times have you been badly injured (ie. hositalised) whilst commuting (let's expand it to any road riding)[/i]
- none serious enough to need hospital treatment, but a few grazes

[i]3. times have you been knocked off or otherwise shunted by a vehicle with no injuries. Expand on your answers if you like.[/i]
- at least 8 (bus knocking me off x 1; driver u-turning in front of me x 1; car turning left across me x 1; wing mirror strikes x lots)

[i]and playing music in a car, which is soundproofed anyway, is fine whats wrong with it on a cycle? [/i]

It's not wrong, but it does undeniably impair one of your senses. Whether you think this is an issue is largely down to individual choice, or personal circumstances. For me it seems bleeding obvious that it's preferable to use as many of your senses as possible to take in available information, so I generally don't wear them. Having said that, I do occasionally wear them at night, where being able to see other headlamps works as adequate compensation for me.

1. about 5 years
2. one trip to A&E to get checked over, fractured fingertip and stiff neck was all, but my helmet was smashed up
3. knocked off twice by a car, and once by a motorbike (that was the one that sent me to A&E). 1st words of the driver each time "Sorry - I didn't see you!)

[i]and if you happen to be deaf you're unsafe?

As a person with partial hearing I find that incredibly offensive, to assume that because you can't hear, either by birth or choice that you suddenly lose the ability to cycle safely is utter moo-poo, especially with the cacophony of urban and wind noise drowning out a lot of it.[/i]

Amedias - Don't be so ridiculous. How can you be so easily offended? I mean, apologies if you genuinely are, but think about it - quite obviously a person that usually has the facility of hearing will be impaired when that sense is removed, whereas someone like yourself is presumably perfectly competent because they will have developed other ways to sense the world around them. I suppose one might extend that logic and concede that if an iPod is worn often enough a similar compensation might occur, but personally I find that I do pick up clues without needing to turn my head (for example).

1. 5
2. 0
3. 0

1) 4 years on and off - mostly short distance in town

2) 1 - oncoming car turned right into a side street cutting accross me. My bike went under the car, I went over bonnet. Broken left wrist.

3) buses in Bangor were main culprits - 1 forced dismount after being forced into the curb and countless slightly too close for comfort moments. The forced dismount driver was chased to nearest stop and ranted at.

Second time a cock in a Golf pulled out on me at a junction - he looked straight at me then went anyway and I went into the side of him hard enough to twist the bars

Had something similar happen to that - only we missed each other & he ploughed into the side of a car coming from the direction he wasn't looking in. Had to laugh at him, felt sorry for the other guy though 😐

1. 17
2. 0
3. 2

I've seen quite a lot of accidents involving cyclists in that time - especially on the Leeds to Headingley part of my commute. I don't think any of them were wearing headphones. This is irrefutable evidence that headphones are the first line of defence in commuting. (I've worn them pretty much since day 1 for commuting and think you can still be perfectly aware of your surroundings). Most of the crashes I've seen have invoved cycling muppetry, or inexperienced cyclists not knowing where the dangers are...(cars in traffic letting oncoming cars turn into side roads, pedestrians crossing in front of stationary buses etc).

1. lots but most recently 5 years
2. never
3. I once had to put my hand on a car and turn left with him when I was going straight on.

To pick up TJ's point cycling is relatively safe compared with other normal activities e.g. crossing the road, but only if you're careful. I always assume that I always expect to be cut up, pulled out on etc, and position myself defensively. I never wear headphones on the bike.

[i]Most of the crashes I've seen have invoved cycling muppetry, or inexperienced cyclists not knowing where the dangers are[/i]

Good point - worst one I've seen was cyclist turning right in outside lane of roundabout, car going straight on in inside lane. Bosh.
No doubt its east to put yourself in danger if you ride like a dope.

glenp, I was offended* by the declaration that cyclists that are unable to hear are unsafe.

And believe me, I have not 'developed' any other senses, I just usse the ones I still have available, the same ones an iPod wearer still has.

I'm not disputing that if you decide to impair one of your senses then you have to make sure you are using the others and that overall it might be better not to wear an iPod, but to carpet all of us, iPod users and the deaf and hard of hearing as 'unsafe' is just plain unfair.

*I'm not as offended as you might think, but I feel the need to draw attention as I hear comments like that far too frequently.

Sorry to go off on one about it once upon a time a good friend of mine was knocked off by a driver who suggested to the police officer who attended that my friend was riding witout due care and attention as he was wearing earphones and thus not paying enough attention to the traffic around him, it just really hits a nerve with me...

Its the same argument as speeding in some ways...
A driver doing 32 in a 30 zone but driving sensibly is arguably more safe than a driver doing 25 and weaving all over the road.

The safey of the cyclist is determined by their actions, riding skills, road positioning, observation etc, just because they can't hear doesn't make them unsafe.

Well I'm glad that you don't find the point "incredibly offensive" (your words).

I didn't say that you might develop additional senses (that would be a neat trick), rather that your remaining senses would presumably be better developed than might be the case in another individual.

I also strongly agree that no rider should ever be penalised for lack of care just for not being able to hear - but I do still think it is a good idea to do what you can to pick up little nuances of traffic behaviour and also to communicate with drivers where possible. When you commute a lot of the traffic is the same individuals coming past you every day - if you hear a certain car going a bit too aggressive one day (or see them, whatever), and you glance over your shoulder to remind them that you are there, then bit by bit you do as much as you can to keep safe.

Don't be too passive, is what I'm saying. It was really the danger of putting on the iPod and switching off the brain that I was alluding to.

[i]It was really the danger of putting on the iPod and switching off the brain that I was alluding to. [/i]

Ah right. So I [i]was[/i] correct in saying it was irrelevant.

amedias - I'd be interested to know what the copper's response was to the 'due care..' suggestion.

Most of the crashes I've seen have invoved cycling muppetry, or inexperienced cyclists not knowing where the dangers are

glenp - well it was late last night when I was 'incredibly offended' and it looks like the usual rules of forums have struck in that neither of us 100% understood the other's point or intention which is so often the case when you cannot see the facial expressions or hear the tone of the other...so, my apologies for reacting a little too harshly to your post.

DezB - Unfortunately the Police officer in question felt duty bound to register the drivers complaint, as there were no independant witnesses and the driver had a passenger to support his claim that my friend was riding carelessly.

anyway we seem to have drifted off topic as usual, before any talk of Ocptopus related commuting accidents happens anyone else out there care to add to the statistics?

All part of the fun, amedias. Cheers to you.

Here we go then. Up to post 80, we had 61 replies with numbers in.

Total years: 682

Total serious injuries: 26

Total minor knocks: 119

Can't wait to get back on the bike when my busted hand is better. (mtb injury, no cars involved 🙂 )

I make that roughly 30 years per serious injury and roughly 6 years per minor knock. And this is a poll of comparatively "busy" cyclists (more miles per year than average?).

Compared to mountain biking those aren't bad numbers. How anyone can consider off road to be safer than on is a puzzle to me. Although I must admit that tarmac really bloody hurts when you hit it, so the minor scrapes are a lot more painful in general.