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What is the local hospital ?
All hospitals have "friends of". These people generally do a lot of hard work and fund raising to try and keep hospitals open. I'm sure they would love to hear about the 70 grand they could have had.
I wanted to go but my 9-year-old is poorly. I'm keen to know how it's going!
Take the poorly 9 year old and send a picture to DCC and the press-
Look what your trail resurfacing did to my child's face
Just seen the photos of the "resurfacing" on Twitter from the picnic. I'd say they are creating massive issues for walkers as the boulders look pretty big and could easily cause people to go over on there ankles. I bet most will walk along the banks causing greater erosion.
Any news from the picnic yet? Did any media of any kind show up? Has anyone got any media contacts who could be persuaded to look at the DCC facebook page?
I'm really hoping we can achieve some kind of critical mass here - so it becomes a real embarrassment for them.
[i]Did any media of any kind show up?[/i]
Singletrack were there 🙂
Contractors were conspicuous by their absence at the picnic - whether they had been pulled off or told to stay away to make sure none of them told us what is being planned, I don't know…
I put a post on the DCC facebook page which stressed natural elements being destroyed and also that I was a walker. I do think that saying the trail isn't so attractive for mountain biking and DCC will think that's a plus.
@Rick, re the bank from the photos I've seen that's where we'll try and ride and rumbling down a gravel motorway is boring
This story in the Derby Telegraph must warrant a comment or two -
Oh god.
We've just had an e-mail in to work asking to quote on some work on DOCTOR'S GATE to make it suitable for all terrain vehicle access! This is also on behalf of DCC. Has anyone heard anything about this?
Looks like it covers 90% of the Doctor's Gate bridleway but I've only had a very brief look and it's been sent to a colleague so can't confirm. Looks awful, though.
I asked Friends of the Peak District their opinion.
[url=
Surely DCC isn't responsible for the upkeep of Doctor's Gate? It's purely a bridleway, no?
I'm trying to get hold of what we're actually being asked to do and who by, and searching my conscience over whether I should spill all the beans or risk my work...
It has DCC's name on it I think.
Right, had a proper look. It's got DCC's name in the e-mail because it's for planning.
Mossy Lea Farm are putting in an application to reprofile parts of Doctor's Gate and creating some new tracks and floating roads shooting of from it onto Shelf Moor and Coldharbour Moor.
The plan shows 4 grades of work including new tracks, floating roads and work on the existing rights of way. The bridleway is shown from the end of the double track at the western end up to Old Woman as being in firing line for work. The plan shows the proposals as making it an "excavated road with side cast spoil made up with gritstone as required" suitable for access by ATVs.
We'd better keep an eye on the planning applications then!
@cy posted this on the front page
[i]In Ride Sheffield’s experience Peter White is the problem, and acts with impunity and is not swayed by lobbying or complaints. He’s a council officer, not an elected official and as such there’s no electoral accountability. We are now turning our attention to the elected officials (councillors in other words) and complaining to them as it’s their job to hear the views of the people who elected them and carry them forward. If you live or work in Derbyshire then please find your local councillor here using your address to find them http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/councillors/ and write to complain. I’ve already complained to the one who represents where Cotic is based as that’s in Derbyshire. If you’re not from Derbyshire, but visit and care, then contact the general email on that page and let the elected representatives know that they must do something to change the Rights of Way department policy.[/i]
re Doctors Gate, that sounds more like the farm, which owns the land there, wanting improved access around its estate, rather than a move to re-classify the bridleway to a byway.
Please keep us updated munrobiker regarding Doctor's Gate, this looks like the tip of the iceberg 🙁
Gavin- now I've looked into it that is the case, and it's to do with either shooting or outdoor pursuits. While it won't be upgrading to a byway it'll still be turning it into a smooth road and DCC will be the ones who grant permission for it.
Jambalaya- e-mailed my councillor. Ta.
http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/outdoor-features/fury-over-flattening-of-peak-district-track/13495.html
Munrobiker - that's worrying all the same, but it is their land.
As for the Rushup Edge work, has anyone outside DCC given an independent view on how effective sticking a loose finished surface on top of bedrock itself within a sunken lane will work? Where will the water go, and will it not just wash away the loose top surface (presumably still to be dropped over these rocks) within a few winters, leaving the rocks?
The next question is won't all that loose surface dressing not just end up washed all over the A6187?
I guess what I'm thinking is, as it's a sunken trail, you can't divert the water out of the channel with water bars, like you can when there a slope like Chapel Gate to one side.
I don't live in the area anymore, but even so, am so saddened by this. That was one of my favourite pieces of trail in the whole area - always a top spot to take friends from outside the area to show off the Peak classic riding.
has anyone outside DCC given an independent view on how effective sticking a loose finished surface on top of bedrock itself within a sunken lane will work?
I don't know if it's relevant, but they attempted to smooth over the tricky bit at the top of the Gap a while back. It didn't last long IIRC.
The next question is won't all that loose surface dressing not just end up washed all over the A6187?
Exactly my thought. The road is often in a state after heavy rain now - silt and rubble all over the show.
Having looked on the facebook page, there is an interesting discussion just before the Mtb community got hold of this. Basically saying that this is all happening due to the 4x4 lobby getting the DCC to reinstate the Paths and tracks to the use they were intened for back in the 1800's. Also that edale PC are as upset about it as all the locals.
How come DCC are paying for track improvements for a private business? (Doctor's Gate)
Pieface- they aren't, I got the wrong end of the stick when the information first came in. The landowner (a farmer living in the US) is applying for planning permission to smooth the tracks, and build new ones. DCC will obviously approve that.
a farmer living in the US
Ah, shooting tracks then.
and will it not just wash away the loose top surface (presumably still to be dropped over these rocks) within a few winters, leaving the rocks?
It will. Takes quite a while though
The bottom end of stanage causeway used to be like this as a result of botched repairs, until they did it again. First we will get horrible deep ruts filled with boulders which is horrible to ride and walk on. Then after time all of the top dressing will be gone and it will just be boulders making it unrideable in either direction on horse or bike and a misserable ankle breaking walk.
But much better than the bedrock hey!
I'll preface my comment by saying that I haven't read all 12 pages of comments, so apologies in advance if the subject I raise has already been covered.
I'm only about 1km over the border from NE Derbyshire, so have seen quite a bit of these 'trail improvements' being carried out - and watched some fellas working on one BW. When I asked the foreman what was going on, he just said that it was to make it easier for horses to ride on (but don't know if that's the official line).
TBH, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the person/persons behind all the work isn't onto some big fat backhander, or has some family connection to the people that are doing the work. Maybe it'd be worth an investigative journo having a look?!
Has anyone contacted Peak Horsepower over this ? I'm reluctant to point the finger but I've seen their name mentioned elsewhere, and they do list their main priority as being "Seeking improvements to bridleways and by-ways to make them safe and ensure they are accessible to horse riders and free from obstructions."
However I don't see how the new surface will be pleasant for a horse. One of my horse-riding friends tells me that a varied surface is better than a smooth one - it keeps the horse thinking. Plus I can't imagine they'll be keen on a surface which encourages MTBs to go faster and then skid to a halt.
I think we should be a bit careful about mooting the idea that another user group might be behind this without reasonable info.
If we start banging heads against other groups we weaken our collective ability to speak up against what DCC are doing here.
However I don't see how the new surface will be pleasant for a horse.
I'm reasonably sure it's been said on a previous thread about bridleway resurfacing that planings/aggregate on a slope is roundabout the worst surface possible for horses, as it shifts.
christhetall - Member
Has anyone contacted Peak Horsepower over this ?
There's a very large horse group (Seaba) currently fighting Stockport council over the "bitmaccing" of bridleways. The horse riders hate bitmac (effectively bitumen based tarmac I think?) as its very slippy for the horses shoes. So in Stockport at least, rafts of horse riders are petitioning to KEEP the trails as nature intended.
Theres a bridleway section that runs from Bredbury hall right through to Chadkirk chapel, the ground is mainly what you could describe as worn bedrock, its a nice surface and very free draining, well SC want this tarmacced 😯
Manmade road planings/grit too also arn't good for horse riders as they dig into the horses hoof and frog cushioning.
Heres some of the posts from Seaba Stockport FB page,
[i]"
Seaba Stockport
27 September ·
Stockport Council is trying to tarmac some of our bridleways. There is an exhibition today 10am-4pm 76/78 Princess street, former Kiss ladieswear shop, Stockport or you can go online at www.stockport.gov.uk then type town centre access into the search bar .
There will be a meeting for horse riders to attend on Monday 29 September 14. 6.30pm at Fred Perry House ( next to the Town Hall).
WE ALL NEED TO ATTEND, NO EXCUSES!!!! If we don't show them that there are a lot of us we will lose our bridleways. We would also like the on road cycle lanes to be multi-user so horse riders can use them too.
"
"
Seaba Stockport
29 September at 07:48 ·
Don't forget we all need to be at tonight's meeting to stop the council tarmacing our bridleways!!!! Fred Perry House 6PM"[/i]
.
So to summarise I don't think councils in general know WTF they are doing with natural trails, as long as they can tarmac/bitmac/road plane it they'll be happy.
To add Peak Horsepower have their own petition going too
STOP ALLOWING FOOTPATHS BEING UPGRADED TO RESTRICTED BYWAYS OR BYWAYS OPEN TO ALL TRAFFIC (BOAT)
I don't think they'll be happy with improved off road access up Rushup Edge for offroad motorbikes.
Is the petition Peak Horsepower or "Friends" of the Peak District? I thought it was the latter...
On a slightly different topic, does anyone know which company is doing the work? As I mentioned above, they were in hiding today, but I'd be interested to see who it is.
Peak Horse power see here, see the 2nd post down by Lisa
For FOTP, Andy Tickle is the man to email, which i've just done, "Influencing landscapes
We are involved in managing four landscapes in the Peak District. We sit on advisory boards and actively push for good, effective and innovative land management for"
http://www.friendsofthepeak.org.uk/Campaigns/Influencing_landscapes/
Here's our report from today, plus the questions we've asked Derbyshire CC...
http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/rushup-edge-picnic-protest/
Cruz campo - the Binghams own the farm at Meadow Place
I've tweeted Jim Dixon current CEO of the PDNPA @peakchief for his view
Just popped a few more bits on the DCC Facebook page.
They have probably taken the usual course of action for public bodies suddenly facing a backlash. Wait a few days to see if it will blow over (otherwise known as sticking your head in the sand and praying that when you pull it out again everyone will have given up).
This is a standard modus operandi for the cosy upper echelons of councils.
Don't let up, folks.
Keep it clean, non-abusive, and funny if possible. The sort of stuff that it makes you look like you've got something to hide if you remove it.
Let them know this is not going to go away overnight.
The reply to DCC's post about looking after teenagers - saying they'd take kids like that mountain biking really made me laugh!
STOP ALLOWING FOOTPATHS BEING UPGRADED TO RESTRICTED BYWAYS OR BYWAYS OPEN TO ALL TRAFFIC (BOAT)
What on earth would their problem with a restricted byway be? It doesn't allow motorised traffic, are horses and carts that much of a threat?
@ninfan, the reason there is in the petition itself
"The Peak District National Park is reputed to be the 2nd most visited national park in the world and when you visit this area it’s not hard to understand why, the area is truly breath-taking and living in the Peak District is a real privilege.
Sadly not everyone who comes to the Peak District wants to enjoy the peace and serenity that the area offers.
The area is under continuous assault by off road enthusiasts who come in significant numbers to rally up and down lanes and bridal ways for recreational sport, these off roaders have learned that if a footpath has ever been used by a horse and cart since the early 18oos they can apply to have the use changed from a footpath to a byway or even worse a Byway Open to All Traffic.
To upgrade existing footpaths to byways of any designation blurs the distinction of what is permissible. Even the description of a route which allows for ‘limited use’ by motorised vehicles clouds the issue and implies some right of vehicular access."
molgrips - the work on the Gap was by a contractor for the National Park, no idea of the thinking behind it, but as soon as they were done we knew it would pull up again as they didn't do anything to manage the water. Even as owner of the land it travels over, we had no cotificatin or consultation.
In regards to Rushup and bits I've skimmed from here and there
The natural stone is sandstone?
They've filled in with limestone or similar?
Around here NRW and the Brecon Beacons NP would throw a massive hissy fit about not using local stone in the repairs. The paths on Pen-y-fan we have to spend a fortune on an inferior surfacing stone because it's local and in keeping.
18 months ago I got lambasted on this forum for suggesting that the start of the 'trail improvements' in and around Marple (which form a nice loop when joined with the up and out of Hayfield towards Jacobs Ladder and the recent added stone there too, before that then gets to Rushup Edge (see what I've done there, putting 2 and 2 together and all that !)), was the work of the local horse riding group, especially as there had recently then been a removal from office or post because the Chairman of the local horse group had also been an employee of the highway/footpath office at either DCC or local borough council (don't quote me on the precise details).
Well lesson learnt, do we know if anyone, or group, has contacted the local horse group to ask them if they are involved in what has gone on at Rushup Edge and if not, what is their opinion of the work, and if they think it's crap too will they join the protest ?