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Is it an open meeting?
Not this one, but it's something we'll explore for the future. If you have comments or ideas please email us. Contact details on the [url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org ]webpage[/url]
Thanks
I can't actually find any contact details on the web pages other than twitter and Facebook.
Does anyone know which MP you'd get involved in this? Which government department is it?
DEFRA?
Communities and Culture?
Transport?
Well, the Derbyshire Dales MP is in the DfT so maybe try that.
http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/Mr-Patrick-McLoughlin/333
Andrew Bingham is the (tory) MP for the High Peak area, but I'd keep your powder dry on that front just yet. Plus he'd be reluctant to get involved in an inter agency disagreement for one, so you'd likely get a fob off at this point anyway. I'd wait for the PDNPA to determine an outcome first before rattling that cage.
But this runs a lot deeper than Rushup Edge.
1) Public Rights of Way are no longer the social and economic arteries of the country that they once were. I think there needs to be a change. DCC are destroying them under highway legislation claiming they need to be passable. Rights of Way have become a destination, rather than a journey. I believe this needs to be reflected in a new, or changed status.
2) These trails in question are in a national park, ironically, the first of the national parks. National parks that were set up so that normal working people has access to wild open spaces. What DCC are doing actually contradicts the very reason these parks were established.
3) "Use it or lose it" budget allocations in local authority are also part of the problem. There isn't a single authority that isn't being told to tighten the purse strings right now. They're all trying to do this but missing the big picture. The way next years budget is directly linked to this years budget encourages fruitless spending.
4) DCC is hiding behind bullshit bingo claims. The idea of improving access is just hot air unless they had demonstrate that they've studies users before and after treatments and seen and improvement or change. They've sanitised enough trails now to be able to measure the impact but it appears their either not trying or their hiding the results because it doesn't fit their rhetoric.
5) they do have number for Rushup Edge that shows MTB is around 50% of the use yet have made no attempt to engage with us. Indeed, they've actually avoided consulting with us intentionally. Both Ride Sheffield and PDMTB report starting conversations that have then gone quiet.
None of this is going to be resolved in discussion with DCC. We need a higher power on our side otherwise DCC will just give us a patronising pat on the head and tell us to sit quietly in the corner and play with our toys. Strongly worded emails and middle class tutting are not going to solve this although I'm willing to admit that I'm not sure what will.
BMC seem to know but I can't find anything to suggest that either the Ramblers or the British Horse Society are even aware of this issue yet.
Correct and that's why I'm currently riding where I want in protest hoping I get stopped so I can tell them what I'm dong and why I'm doing it.
But if you're dealing with officialdom then you're better off playing the game. It is a wider issue and it's about how DCC views it's obligations strictly in terms of functional repairs allowing access for the greatest number of people. To get any traction and sway with someone like Bingham you'd need PDNPA, walkers and the horse riding fraternity roughly on the same page. Arguing from the perspective of disenfranchised mountain biker won't get you very far in those circles.
Contact him by all means but remember who you're dealing with and what mainstream political party he's affiliated to and remember privately he might not like mountain bikes or cyclists in general. I'll be contacting him later on as he's my MP, but I just don't think the timing is right just yet.
Are we forming that single voice right now? I agree, one united voice is better than one stroppy mountain biker. However, one stroppy mountain biker is better than nothing at all.
I know what party he represents, I also know what party DCC are. I also know that given half the chance, one very much likes to stick the boot into the other. That can't hurt our cause.
As an alternative approach, has anyone pressed DCC to use the Cycle Tracks Act 1984 to convert footpaths to cycle tracks?
Made a great start by the looks of it, groups communicating with each other, or trying to. If we can reach agreement with other groups through Ride Sheffield and PDMTB then we've got a good platform and focal point for someone like Bingham to get a hold of.
What about Ramblers and British Horse Society, BMC etc? Have any of them been contacted yet?
I'm suspicious / concerned that the emergency closer is DCC creating an oppotunity to get the work done sooner than expected without interuption. Has anyone been up there to see what's happening?
Peak Horse power were going to support but changed their mind because MTB'ers we're slagging them off somewhere.. Which goes to show.. United voices extend beyond ourselves.. We need to remember who the real bad guys are in all this and not isolate other users.
That's a shame about Peak Horse Power. Either they're concerned about trail sanitation or not, and what better way to build bridges between the two groups that stand shoulder to shoulder in battle.
I thought work was on hold until the 17th, unless the closure is so they can do it on the sly. If they do, I'm pretty sure that would push PDNPA closer to our side of the fence though.
Hopefully Peak Horse Power will step up again. The issues here are wider than surfacing and have a bearing on all people who enjoy the countryside.
I suspect if the local horse riding community may not appreciate the level of institutional marginalisation mountain bikers face. If they did they might understand why passions are running high. Chapel gate has been rumbling on for a couple of years since the first over the bars water bars and road plainings went in. Since then there's been Stannage and Wiggly Lane.
I hope the wider biking community is now at the point it accepts some repairs may be needed. In doing the repairs you do get - for want of a better term - a reset and refinement. It's not a case of saying no, more please think about the bigger picture and look to examples like Cut Gate or the Pennine Bridleway.
It is extremely unhelpful when organisations such as DCC fan the flames by attempting to playing different user groups and sections of society off against each other.
Even though I am not in Derbyshire any more - and Rushup was one of my from the door rides - I find the whole DCC approach both patronising and offensive in equal measure.
Peak Horsepower are still very much engaged with Peak District MTB and Ride Sheffield. All they've done is declined to put their name against a joint statement over the Rushup work.
Bridges have not been burnt but it's a shame we had to worry about the fire in the first place.
Any particular reason for them not wanting to put their name to it?
It was the disparaging comments from MTBers against horse riders from a minority on social media
So, DCC are sticking to their argument that routes should be accessible to all. The extension of this is clearly ridiculous. There are plenty of footpaths that are challenging to walk on and require basic rock climbing/scrambling* techniques.
Also, while I understand why they are trying to justify the work, why on earth did they choose here to spend their money in the first place? There are plenty of places where you're up to your axles/boot tops in mud in winter that are crying out for improvement!
*Although I confess a quick map search has suggested most of the classics (Crib Goch, Tryfan, Sharp Edge etc) are not actually footpaths....
I assume someone has pointed out to PHP that being part of a single voice is the best way to shoot down those who have made disparaging comments?
After all, they must know of some people who ride horses that they wouldn't want to be associated with in the same way as we are aware of people with bikes that we'd not want to be associated with.
Not sure I agree with that last comment!
Peak District MTB and Ride Sheffield are run by volunteers who have full time jobs, families and other responsibilities. All we're asking is that people are a little more considerate to the bigger picture here, so we don't have to spend our time dealing with the fallout from ill-advised comments by a small minority but can instead focus on the important stuff.
At the end of the day these disparaging comments are on OUR Facebook Group sites, so claiming they are nothing to do with us is a little unconvincing.
Worrying again - I don't think it is particularly fair to punish an organisation for the actions of individuals who may not even be members of or involved with said organisation.
***EDIT - above about FB page went up whilst I was typing.
Ah, not spotted them on there. I assume you have some ability to "moderate" the site?
After a long meeting fuelled only by chocolate biscuits and our passion for sweet trails PDMTB have agreed their next step. Further news and updates coming up when we've all had a bit of kip.
Good news. Do we all chip in now or shall we continue the social media onslaught against DCC?
The speed everyone left out office when the mugs needed washing was almost as fast as DCC flattening a right of way
When I asked about chipping in, I didn't mean to give me the washing up to do. I don't even drink tea.
Interesting stuff in DCC's statement on Budget Cuts
http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2014/july/%20budget-cuts-proposals.asp
[i]
Over the next three years, a third of the budget for countryside services is proposed to go. During this time, the council will look to pass responsibility for some of its sites to other groups and organisations and sell some sites. . . . . The council will try to increase income by charging more for car parking and renegotiating leases for things like ice cream vans and cafes at its sites.[/i]
So, we can look forward to more expensive car parking, higher cafe prices and flatter trails. But fewer rangers to shout at us 😉
Also, while I understand why they are trying to justify the work, why on earth did they choose here to spend their money in the first place? There are plenty of places where you're up to your axles/boot tops in mud in winter that are crying out for improvement!
There's a certain irony that one of those places is actually on the flattish section of track that connects the top of the sunken lane to Chapel Gate. There's a huge and established lagoon of a thing that's the entire width of the path and means the track is spilling outwards as people try to avoid drowning in mud.
Almost makes you think the whole thing is run as a desk top exercise with the likes of Peter White never setting foot outdoors for fear of getting his brown brogues dirty.
http://www.ridesheffield.org.uk/2014/11/rushup-cock-up-the-fight-continues/
looks like Peak MTB and Ride Sheffield have backing from the BMC and Friends of the Peak too.
Result! Fingers crossed we can sort an alliance with Peak Horsepower as well. After all, they either object to the work or they don't.
How about trying BHS if Peak Horse Power are non committal? Has anyone tried to get the Ramblers on side yet?
Yes and yes
Things are progressing.
In the meantime let's not sit back.
PDMTD has a club affiliation form on the website - it was requested by a couple of clubs on FB, if anyone is a member of or knows members of a club who ride the Peak their support would be very welcome:
[url= http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/affilitate-with-us ]http://www.peakdistrictmtb.org/index.php/affilitate-with-us[/url]
Great news, wiggle are now helping to increase exposure on this issue. This is really gaining some momentum.
[url= http://blog.wiggle.com/2014/11/07/opinion-peak-district-trail-works-a-cause-for-concern/ ]linky[/url]
great news Onza 😀
Right, we're 23 pages in, so a couple of things.
Firstly thank you to PBMTB, ride Sheffield, @keeperofthepeak and everyone else who's engaged with this.
As PDMTB seem to have the lead on this, what do you want the rest of us to do? As has been said we need a United voice so let's get that coordinated.
If it's a question of continuing to post bomb DCC Facebook page so be it, if it's emails to individuals let's get a list of who. I know it's in the thread somewhere but a reminder of the most recent contacts, and who does what would be good.
Do we need to write to both our own MP and the local MP?
I raise this as so much brilliant hard work has been done it would be a shame to undo something with a clumsy contact or a misguided communication.
Good questions MartynS. I'd like to know the answer to those questions as well. Keen to do my bit, and I am enjoying my regular bombs of the DCC facebook page.
Also, this protest ride on the 22nd, what's the plan? I don't know how to say this without it sounding critical, I don't want it to, but how is that protest ride going to differ from, say "a pootle"? I'd hate to protest and not have anyone notice.
I'm always up for a ride but what bit of it is the protest?
Martin, Steve, I can't commend your enthusiasm enough! There's a few things I can see going on here that are really helping
1. Membership and recruiting others. The more members Ride Sheffield, Peak MTB and kofthep have the greater the mandate. The progress has come from the deafening 'roar' from everyone. We can always get louder though.
2. Get on to your horse riding and walking friends. We need them on board too. The mountain bikers, conservationists, authorities, mountaineering groups and others are in. They're missing the party!
3. Thought about joining the ramblers association at all.....?
As far as i know, the protest ride is on the 22nd. DCC are on about returning to the track on the 17th
Is it worth asking the Mountain Rescue Teams for their opinions. Do they think the smoother tracks will lead to an increase in speed and therefore an increase in severity/number of injuries?
Do they think it will lead to them getting called out more?
If it goes lead to an increase of inexperienced users, are they concerned that this will again increase the load placed on their services?
They're on the list
http://ctc-rtr-sheffield-tro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/use-of-byways-by-motor-vehicles.html?m=1
I have contacted the CTC to ask if this is representative of their views on such work / vandalism or if their Sheffield spokesperson is alone in describing mountainbikers as arrogant and elitist
I've also pointed them in the direction of PDMTB and ride Sheffield websites so they can hopefully issue a more researched statement than Mr Geller has
However, their relevant CTC rep has issued a far more reasoned response