You can get the 303 Firecrest at a much more palatable price from a number of places – they updated the rims on the Firecrest from the original and its got that latest brake track…they still sell it alongside the more spendy NSW.
firecrest CR
£1,500 for a set of wheels that can’t be made tubeless is mad in my book.
I rode rococorba on carbon clinchers with no problems, also lots of other steep descents within the same area. I overheated on the way up, but the wheels were fine. A lot of that downhill is pretty flowy so don’t actually remember needing to worry about any overheating.
I’ve ridden them just about everywhere, including some north wales very steep and sketchy downhills and had no problems with overheating.
Not being tubeless is a huge benefit for enabling easy roadside repairs in my opinion, never had a problem with normal tyres one can pop off the rim with bare hands - Happy to run tubeless on the mtb's but curiously have zero interest on a road bike due to excess milky faffage, is this now a minority opinion?
but curiously have zero interest on a road bike due to excess milky faffage, is this now a minority opinion?
I share that opinion, but also don't like discs so suspect I am very much the voice of the minority!
A lot of that downhill is pretty flowy so don’t actually remember needing to worry about any overheating.
Ug, not my memory of it, seem to recall some steep sections pitched in concrete with joining seams and nasty lumps and bumps. Did not encourage a brakes off approach! Do you use latex tubes also, apparently more susceptible to heat although mine are 80g Vittorias not the 50g scary-lites... 😁
I am very much the voice of the minority!
You're not.
Also in the market (seems everyone is.....lockdown boardness?)
Looking for 50mm carbon with decent hubs and limiting myself a grand.
Rule out the big names which isnt an issue.
short list seems to be...
Hunt 50 Carbon Areo 1,537g 26.6/20 width @£840
Scribe Aero Wide 50 Carbon Disc 1,438g 26/19 width @ £870
Just Riding Along Mahi Mahi 50 1,500g 27/22 width @ £850
Hmmm??
I've always like hunt but after taking a close look at the market I leaning towards JRA.
An extra £150 and you could be looking at a set of Roval cl50s....
I think I’d spend the extra in all honesty and don’t think you’d be disappointed
Totally agree re tubeless. It just seems like extra hassle. I’ve tried it and won’t be trying it again (on the road)
Road tubeless got old for me the day I cut a front tyre on a lump of metal, and got a Stan's facial.
My fave (tub) wheelsets have been Corima 34s and the current Mavic CCUs which are 2013 I think. Stunning wheels.
Interested to note how wide all these modern rim options are - do rims that wide work if you're still running older rim callipers? I have Dura-ace 7800 callipers from the 10spd generation and have a sneaking suspicion they'd be at the limit of the pads opening far enough, anyone tried this?
Probably won’t just be the caliper, the tyre on a wider rim May well rub the frame. A 10 speed gruppo would have been designed probably with 23c tyres max designed in mind (and run at 120psi!)
Obviously this is if you are running the 10spd groupset on a frame of similar vintage
I have been running tubeless for the past year and 6000km. I will not go back to tubes. No punctures despite hitting the odd pothole/drain cover that I think would have punctured a tube. It feels better too (might be snake oil). I see no reason why you wouldn't go tubeless.
The tubeless thing - so if you're out 50 miles from home and get a puncture that the sealant won't seal and need to put a tube in, are you confident you can get the tyre off with small levers then reseated just with a mini pump? My experience with latest Mtb wheelsets like Mavic is that getting tyres on/off is full on workshop 20mins of cursing, 4 tyre lever snapping, thumb squishing sweatfest as they seem to be making the interface so tight to limit bead slipping - then tyre seating requiring Airshot 300psi - or have people found road tubeless tyre/rim combo's that are more forgiving?
I've had issues with pad spacing and wide rims, but only on Avid canti brakes with stupid proprietary pad holders. They actually offer aftermarket pad holders for wider rims but surprise surprise for SRAM, they're ridiculously over-priced.
Swissstop do their Evo pads which are just normal pads but 0.75mm thinner, e.g. you're paying more for pre-worn pads! 😁
The tubeless thing – so if you’re out 50 miles from home and get a puncture that the sealant won’t seal and need to put a tube in, are you confident you can get the tyre off with small levers then reseated just with a mini pump?
Definitely, have even tried it in the garage to be sure. Yes its not as easy but still not too bad.
DT Swiss rims and Conti GP500 tl tyres.
Making sure the bead of the tyre is sitting in the centre of the rim at its smallest diameter is the key.
or have people found road tubeless tyre/rim combo’s that are more forgiving?
I run Roval CLX32 rims and Sworks Turbo RapidAir 26mm tyres and Orange Seal, they go on/off by hand and pump up with a track pump from unseated no problem. They would most likely seat with a C02 also, but in 2500 miles I've not had a flat, so haven't had cause to take them off and try.
Hi!!!!
Sorry for radio silence. I did make a choice in the end..... think I’m actually going to break the bike down.
Groupset on to my RX9, which needs a new group, sell the frame, forks, seat post and bars and then buy a new, disc brake bike. Almost certainly a Supersix! I just can’t get my head around the big money for a set of rim brake carbon wheels!
How?? No criticism, just genuinely amazed
There were a lot of steep (25%), winding descents where I lived at the time.
303 firecrest are tubeless ready. They come with a tubeless valve and already taped up ready to go. Can't justify the price but hey....you pay your money and take you chance. Heard about plenty of issues with Chinese rims over the years..granted they're probably alot better now than they were, but they're not the bargain they used to be either. Still looking at the thick end of £1000 and just over £1000 for branded Chinese bog standard carbon rims like Hunt for example, so only a few hundred quid saving over 303's.
I'm not convinced about road tubeless. The sealant has to corragulate as it is blown through the restriction/hole...works most times at 25psi on a mountain bike wheel in mine and friends exeperience but nowhere near reliable enough to leave tubes at home, so I'm not convinced that at 90 psi it will work so well on a road bike wheel...the much higher pressure will just blow the sealant through before it gets a chance to corragulate. Happy to be proven wrong but even less chance of it happening than with MTB tyres and its nowhere near a 100% reliable system. And there is the bit about getting a tyre on and off...spent a good hour with a mate on my MTB wheel once trying to get a tyre on and off to replace a puncture. Alot of this is the rim/tyre combo granted.
I went with a set of Scribe 38/50's, pretty light with enough of an aero effect but as I live in south lakes it gets very gusty and is quite hilly so didn't go with 50's.
Been very happy with them and I am faster than with Hunt light aero's fitted (although you would expect that)
Is there any love for the Prime wheels in CRC/Wiggle?
So... I've fitted a pair of the 38mm DISC versions of the V2 rims. Yeah, at 16.5mm internal they appear narrow on paper, but have stuck some conti 25c gatorskins on there and they look and feel fine. No bulge, no 'rim step' etc...
Not the lightest at about 1780gm (I think) but it's hard to get a thick wodge of carbon to be uber light at £400...
Have done a few rides on them (kinesis tripster, with aero bars...and a pannier rack..what a bastard of a bike!)... I'm on teh windy south coast so opted away from 50mm+ due to the hefty winds we can get...the 38mm feel fast, but TBH, I just wanted the bling appeal of deep carbon!
DrP
I’m really struggling on making a decision here!
I’ve found the Edco Maloja wheels in Germany for £540. All good, cheaper than you can get them in the UK. But then I can get zipp 303’s with a bit of hassle (2 different places for £1,150.
The last wheels I bought were £180 so it wasn’t a difficult decision but I am struggling with this. Evidently the Edco are nice rims, but probably let down by very average no brand hubs.
I am struggling to justify £1k + to me, let alone the wife, however not sure if I will regret spending £550 on the Edco’s. Their own wheels with nice hubs are nearer to £1k
I’m loving my Edco’s. Overall I’d say they are no slower than my Reynolds 65mm carbon wheels or my Bonty Aeolus Pro which RRP at £1300 more.
I’ve done around 800 miles now, mainly rolling roads, some decent climbs but typical English short kickers rather than long drags. They are a decent weight, slightly under the advertised weight (1580 for mine). I’m not running them tubeless, but still nice and easy to get clinchers on, a very welcome bonus over some carbon tubeless setups.
I’ve only ridden them in the dry, braking performance is very good.
Best of all, they look really good and sound great when you’re going at speed.
As I’ve said previously, if money was no object I’d get the Zipps, but like you I was being mindful of the price difference. I accept that they are really just Far Eastern imports, but apart from very high end wheels, the majority are. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed, as long as you don’t expect to start getting pro level speeds! They’re nice looking wheels that perform very good for the price.
let down by very average no brand hubs.
If you do a decent bit of mileage then cheap unbranded hubs just aren’t worth the hassle. Some of them have strange or uncommon bearings that are very hard for shops to get - same goes with spokes. Worth keeping in mind that’s it’s a lot easier to get in spare spokes for the main brands if you need one from your lbs.
Just something keep in mind. I bought new training wheels last week, decided to go with Mavic Kyseriums instead of cheapo ones on CRC which on paper looked more attractive until I dug deeper. Mavic Cosmic carbons worth looking at...on sale for well under 1000 at a few places right now.
Mavic just work, very reliable and parts easily available.
Did you bite the bullet OP?
Hi Michael. Yes and no. Can’t get my head around zipp money. Decided I’ll probably upgrade to a disc supersix later in the year or next!
Come next month the Zipp 303s will be in stores, they look a good bet for the money. 1500 odd g's, less than a grand retail, tubeless 23mm internal rim width, 45mm deep.
Funkydunc, here’s a link to the 303s mentioned by Northernremedy.
Might be an option if you return your front wheel to Germany.
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/zipp-targets-versatility-new-303-s-tubeless-wheelset-273197
Those 303s are disc only though?
I can’t see anything about a rim brake version ?
Just been out for a ride on my new Zipp 303's.
This is after having been using wheelsets in the £200-£300 bracket since starting road riding 40 ish years ago! Latest wheels were Cero AR24's
Initial thoughts in order of brilliance.
Comfort- I wasn't expecting comfort, but they absorb so much of the imperfection in the roads its almost like having suspension. This could be in part caused by the bigger volume of the tyre, but whatever the difference is astounding
Speed - Acceleration, they just go. What you put in goes forward, they feel torisonally very stiff. Whenever I looked at my speedometer my speed was anywhere between 1-3 mph quicker.
Confidence - Again I assume this one is partly due to the larger volume of the tyre, however I could feel more of the road, something my last wheel set lacked. This makes it feel like there is more grip in the corners, and there probably is more grip.
Braking - The power is great, way better than my old alloy rims, modulation is improved too.
Downsides (being very picky!) - I did notice slightly different straight line handling due to the deeper rim (not quite as flickable), but by the end of the ride I was almost used to it.
Brakes - Its like the noise you get putting a mtb tyre on a turbo trainer, but at least people know your coming!
Speed - They want to go quicker. Where as my old wheelset at the top of the pedal stroke would sap energy away, these almost run away from you so you have to keep spinning your legs to stop slack in the freehub. (yes it means I was being lazy before)
Cost - I still shudder at how much they cost, more than the cost of the complete bike in the first place. However I knew it was a good frame, and to be honest the package together is amazing.
Nice. You missed:
Pretty - they say Zipp in big letters and look cool.
That's a glowing endorsement and they look awesome!
I really need to test ride some, had convinced myself that there wouldn't be enough improvement over my 1550g, 30mm deep Fulcrum 3s, decided I was better saving 300g weight on fancy shoes and new cranks...
1-3mph increase in speed is amazing!
Lovely, nice. I agree with the comfort factor, whether that’s because of the wider volume / external rim width or the carbon or both, I’m not sure. I have the 303 rear and 202 front as I’m a lightweight and would possibly be racing in high winds.
Do any of the manufacturers discussed in this thread do demo wheels?
I'm just about at the point, where on a good day, a set of 50mm-ish wheels may make a difference (I can manage a bit over 18mph average for 30 miles/3300' of vert, but as I do next to no flat stuff and a lot of climbing/descending, I'd like to actually see what the difference is before spunking that much cash on marginal gains. I'd be adding at least 100g compared to my current summer bike wheels, and as we're talking rim brakes - possible braking performance issues too. (although its very rare to ride that bike in the wet).
I did have a brief demo spin on a bike about 6 years ago that had 50mm carbon tubs on (Planet X N2A), and it was incredibly quick - a proper thrash your brains out job; however it was also brutally stiff - every spec of grit on the road getting smashed unmercilessly up my jacksie. I'd be bleeding in under 10 miles... Frame, wheels, tyre pressures - don't know, but man it was harsh. And fast!
Alloy rims tend to wear out much quicker, generally because they’ll be used over winter. I’ve done wheelsets in months under normal winter use, switched to disc brakes (for winter) years ago so I no longer have to worry about it.
This. Usage completely determines wear - summer wheels can, quite literally, last forever, but 300 miles a month in the depths of winter can trash a set of alloy rims in a season without any difficulty at all.
FWIW, now use discs in winter too - new rotors cost next to nothing by comparison with a set of even half-decent wheels and you no longer need to worry about whether it will rain on a given ride because you don't want to wear your best wheels. TBH, combined with more consistent braking performance, the wear issue is at the top of my "why discs are awesome on road bikes" list.
1-3 mph quicker
As much as you probably want to justify spending 1.5k on wheels (and you don't need to as they are very nice!) There is no way on earth that 303s give you 3mph difference in speed over a standard set of wheels. I reckon 1.5 mph tops. I don't even get 3mph extra going with a disk wheel and 80mm front on my tt bike.
Not convinced about the new 303s though..72psi max seems a bit limiting, not sure you could drop narrower than a 28 with that pressure limitation (i prefer 25s)
I have my eye on parcours wheels. I already have a set and like then, but thing that puts me off another set is how hard it was to fit tyres. gp5000 were pretty much impossible.
