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i was thinking of buying a pair of reynolds assaults or changing the 105 out for ultegra or maybe chorus, the bike isn't amazingly light at 7.4kg and a groupo change would certainly solve that, where as the assaults are the same(ish) weight wise as the ksyriums, but aero!
My Campag hubs roll and roll and roll. Smoothest bearings I've ever experienced. Can be a problem freewheeling in groups on downhills cos I keep gaining on the man in front...
I know that's not the question you asked but it may be worth considering quality of bearings as well. The wheels are Scirocco - mid-range by Campag standards. The rims aren't aero but the spokes are flat bladed
do you up hill or on the flat? i can't remember details but basically on the flat aero wins, big hills weight wins.
just as a spanner, aero and cross winds, can be an issue.
Been discussed generally at length.
Aero is of more benefit unless it's a hill climb, as long as you actually ride fast enough.
You'll feel the weight more tho.
As for hub bearings being significant enough to make you overtake mates on descents, LOL, lots of other factors.
Your bike weighs 16lb with 105? Blimey.
wouldnt say there is much advantage going from 105 to ultegra....weight wise. Personally would get some light non aero wheels such as Dura Ace CL's - they will take more weight off the bike where it matters and will prob take more weight than going fromn 105 to ultegra.
I race on 55mm aero tubs, train on normal light clincher wheels (Dura ace). race bike dura ace gruppo, training bike 105 gruppo.
Bike will feel better with some sprightly wheels IMO
your bearing will not having you overtaking people at speed. weight and Aero will do that.
to the op, it really depends how fast you are. Realistically none of those options will really make you significantly faster. training will do that. save your money, go on a proper training camp instead...
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/?ns_campaign=Other_br-article-test&ns_mchannel=hl&ns_source=article_type_a_related_articles&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0 ]Always go for Aero.[/url]
[url= http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/aero-position-isnt-everything-31165/ ]Up to a point.[/url]
Simondbarnes are you saying blimey in reference to it being light or heavy for what it is?
Riding I do is mostly flat, and crit racing, so aero is appropriate for the cause.
Simondbarnes are you saying blimey in reference to it being light or heavy for what it is?
Unusual for a bike to be that light with 105
I'd be double checking that weight. Not impossible but unlikely with 105 unless you've got some superlight frame and wheels.
my road bike with a 1200gram frame and full 105 groupset weighs in at 8.8kg all in ... i'd be checking those scales too.
Can I borrow the scales before you check them?
Weight or aero won't win you races. Learning how to sprint will.
Well the bike is a cinelli willin SL with full Easton EC90 finishing kit, and fork, selle italia SLR kit carbonio saddle and all ti hardware.
It only has 105 on it because it was transferred from my old frame. And as for the weight, I weighed it 3 times and took the average, on a set of proper hang scales that have just been calibrated (my other bike was the same 9.5kg it has always been on every other set of scales so seem relatively accurate)
Also, I realise that it's not going to make me win, and that wasn't the question I was asking.
I got a set of Roval sl 25 fusee wheels to replace the dt swiss giant wheels that came on my giant tcr composite 1 (2011 model) the weight difference was huge from 2.1 kilo's for the dt swiss R1900 to 1495 grams for the Roval's and it made a huge difference to the way my bike rolled
I live in the flat lands of suffolk/norfolk aero is good round here but lighter weight is also good but over all fitness and strength rules the day 😉 (ps i have neither at mo) 😆
2100g minus 1495g equals 605g....
A small bottle of water...
The kind of weight saving people are discussing in the context of an overall weight of 80-90-100kg is not significant.
Learn to sprint, it will do you much good in your biking life.
Gotta have aero to race on the flat 😉
I like HED Jet 4 or Shimano RS80 C50 - or even look at Planet X for budget price.
[i]Gotta have aero to race on the flat[/i]
No, actually you don't.
Gotta be clever, gotta be quick, gotta be on the right wheel, gotta be willing to suffer, gotta go for it when it counts, gotta be prepared to give it everything when it makes a difference, gotta be prepared to dick people over, gotta be in it to win it.
Well the wheels I have now are 1550g, and the assaults I was looking at are a tiny bit lighter, but 46mm full carbon.
I know that rotational mass is the easiest to feel the difference, and probably the most rewarding thing to save weight on, but that's not the question: I am interested in weather I would notice more benefit in changing to an aero wheel of similar weight to current or a lighter bike in general
Oh and I put a smiley and everything....
Btw crikey I do go sprint training with my club, I realised you have to have the skills to pay the bills!
I think this is one of those cases where you might feel a lot of difference, but the actual effect is negligible. I'm always faster after buying new shoes, and loads faster if they are white. Experience and training will get you faster than any wheelset, or any weight loss in your equipment.
I got the fastest I ever was by buying....
A decent waterproof jacket and mudguards.
It's sad but true; you can't buy speed or performance, you really really have to work at it.
Top tip; go to Belgium for a few days, stay in Ghent, buy a newspaper, work out where the races are and enter some. You'll get dropped like a stone, but you will learn how to ride fast.
I'd get a set of deep section wheels personally. I have the original, non sl, Cinelli Willin built up with Athena kit and its pretty light, though not quite as light as yours. Deep sections look bad ass and if you're going fast will be more of an advantage than a lighter wheelset. Differences will be small, but if what ever you do makes you ride your bike more, then its worth it 😀
Crikey, earlier
[img] 
[/img]
I remember looking like that young man....
Seriously, go race in Belgium. You can do it cheaply, you can race every day, you will get hammered, but you will get quick. You will learn that racing is not about chasing everything down, it's about leaving everyone behind, and sprinting is an art...
Appreciate the suggestion, and it's probably very valid. But I really don't have time to toss it off in Belgium at any point in the next 6 months 🙂
16.3 POUNDS not light ? do me a favour .Thats a good 6 pounds lighter than any of my road bikes .How light do you want them to br ffs?
I had a budget for wheels. I looked at the races I race, and 95% are crits and all are on short courses.
Nearly all are classed as flat, though all have a slight incline. IME this is where attacks happen.
So for me short course + tight slow bends + attacky inclines = stiff lightweight standards.
I don't race, i'm not fast, nor do i manage long distances, however after a winter of little riding i'm better than i was before the winter. After a crash and back injury my physio suggested strengthening exercises. I bought a barbell and got hooked. It seems doing squats, deadliest, rows and presses three times a week have made me stronger and faster on the bike. Total cost was about £150.
Look at the research oldgit, I think it suggests aero would be better.
Firstly, I'm still not convinced about that weight given that [url= http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/21973/products/Cinelli-Willin-Ultegra-SL-Med-Carbon-Road-Bike.aspx?utm_source=Froogle&utm_medium=PriceComp&utm_term=Froogle&utm_content=None&utm_campaign=PriceComp1 ]this Cinelli[/url] with Ultegra kit on it is still over 1lb heavier than yours. If you're thinking of spending the thick end of £1000 on it to make it better/faster/lighter (delete as applicable) then I'd start from the point of knowing exactly what everything weighs and what the replacement parts will weigh...
At that kind of weight, going lighter is going to make very little difference, you're into the laws of diminishing returns so aero makes more sense.
What makes even more sense as others have said is MTFU. 😉 Cheaper too.
possible explanation for that: My easton fork and finishing kit save just under 1lb over the colimbus fork/pro PLT kit, and my ksyriums are 300g lighter than RS10s, and thats before you start picking at tyres and saddle etc etc.
MTFU accepted. maybe i should buy a cross bike instead....
I assume [i]you[/i] are already as light as possible?
what's that got to do with anything?I assume you are already as light as possible?
Fattist!
I assume you are already as light as possible?
I weigh 15 stone and just bought some <1500g wheels, take your common sense elswhere! I kept up yesterday with a guy in full liquigas/cannondale kit, so he must have been pro, therefore I must be fast.
On a related (climbing) note, is there any kind of 'correction factor' for comparing times up different climbs?
e.g.
Me yesterday 48km, 1000m climbed, 2h30min (mainly long slogs up, steep down so not much gained on the downs). Might ride it the oposite way next week to get a more flattering time.
Is there any way to convert that to an aproximate time for Alp d'Huez (14.5km, 1150m)?
Biggest climbs localy are ~300m, so if I rode that 4 times, with a break on the decents is there a multiplier to get time for a 1200m accent? Bit liek swimmers have multipliers for converting times in 25m/33m/50m pools and open water.
You'd have annihilated him if you lost the extra couple of stone you're carrying!!
And the swimming multipliers don't have to contend with gradient.
i'm 62kg with sub 10% body fat index.
And the swimming multipliers don't have to contend with gradient.
Yes, but is 1200m up a 1 in 10 the same as 1200m up a 1 in 5 followed by a 6km flat section? And is 4x300m done back to back the same as doing 1200m in one go?
You'd have annihilated him if you lost the extra couple of stone you're carrying!!
Being a fatty means I have a lot of time to think about this kind of sh** whilst climbing. And bessides the peoples repulic of yorkshire does good pies, so while I'm in exile up here I'm not loseing nay weight!
Edric 64 - Member
16.3 POUNDS not light ? do me a favour .Thats a good 6 pounds lighter than any of my road bikes .How light do you want them to br ffs?
Your right, it does make the poster look a bit daft really.
Any bike under 20 lbs is pretty light and unless you are 5% bodyfat (which very very few people are then a few grams less weight will make no difference.
Make sure the frame is the right sze and play about with body position to get better aero.
Edric 64 - Member
16.3 POUNDS not light ? do me a favour .Thats a good 6 pounds lighter than any of my road bikes .How light do you want them to br ffs?
Your right, it does make the poster look a bit daft really.Any bike under 20 lbs is pretty light and unless you are 5% bodyfat (which very very few people are then a few grams less weight will make no difference.
Make sure the frame is the right sze and play about with body position to get better aero.
WHY?
If you guys are happy with heavier bikes, then that is up to you.
My training bike is probably heavier than anyone's, but i don't go around telling everyone their training bike too light and to MTFU!
Surely its up the the person on how light or heavy they want their bike.
I just hope you guys never look at the Weight Weenies site!
I agree with the OP.
Any bike under 20 lbs is pretty light and unless you are 5% bodyfat (which very very few people are then a few grams less weight will make no difference.
So everyone who's not pro should ride arround on a Halfords special?
I think his point is that the difference in speed will be minimal, not what anyone should ride.