[Closed] Roadie to XC - Bar Width

Can't help thinking you bought the wrong bike and that a gravel/monstercross (jeez, 2 terms I dislike) bike that can take bigger tyres but is designed for narrow drops would suit better

Or ... stick with the xc bike as it came and learn to ride it as the good lord intended (lots of "us" here went the opposite way and struggled to get onto road bikes because they felt weird. It'd have been daft for us to put flat bars on them though)

Roadie and mountain biker here. Slammed stems are not for mountain bikes.
What felt not right about the bars and stem set up? It could be tyres, tyre pressures, fork air pressure, rebound damping or as you suggest bars and stem. Generally though longer slammed set ups are not conducive to mountain biking.
My bars are 760mm on my XC bike and 780 on a trail bike. Road bars are 380mm slammed on a 100mm stem. It’s not really comparable.
Some detail about the bike set up might be useful, is it new from a shop? What tyres and tyre pressures? What’s the ground like your riding? What fork and was it set up for your approx weight? Guessing it’s a hard tail?
My guess the bike feels like it could wash out from under you with the shorter stem, and I’m guessing it’s down to a number of things, including your body position when riding. Don’t ride it like a road bike and don’t try and replicate riding positions.

I have two road bikes, both with 420mm bars based on bar width equalling shoulder width; that is a generally accepted convention - with many dissenters inc Mark Cavendish who subscribes to ...wider is better.
As for off road, I have an ex team race bike in 26" flavour (not raced by me) which was state of the art in 2011 and that has 680mm.
On a recent SS off road build I've got 720mm with 100mm stem; I couldn't imagine being comfortable with anything wider than that.

I think you're probably best to try riding it for a month or two with the stock stem and bars to get used to the feel of it. 15 years ago, XC bikes had 100 mm stems, sub-700 mm bars, and the bars set 4" below the saddle. That sucks if you're doing steep descents (and don't have superhuman bike skills). Some of it is personal preference, but I find a 60 mm stem and bars in the 720 to 750 mm range work well for an XC trail bike, with the bars about level with the saddle. Much, much better on steep, rough descents than the old-school XC setup.

A dropper post makes a massive difference too. Once you get used to one, it's impossible to go back.

I run a 50mm stem and 770mm bars on my Orbea Oiz.

Shorter stems need wider bars to counteract the direct feel.

On a mountain bike 110mm stems would need pretty narrow bars to not feel incredibly slow turning. Even 80mm with a 760mm bar is gonna be super slow.

If you can borrow a shorter stem, and leave the bars as they are - that would be a good option. Maybe a 70mm.

It's gonna take time for you to get used to the change from road to MTB setup. Go with it, and don't try to turn your MTB into a road bike! 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁

Funnily enough, I had for quite a while been considering a gravel/monstercross bike. My other half has a Planet X Space Chicken which I've ridden a few times, however, I never got on with how little control it had on anything more than gravel tracks.

@w00dster, yes, I didn't trust that I wasn't far enough forward to have enough weight on the front wheel. It also felt a bit too upright, all this said, it is vastly easier, more comfortable and more fun to ride than my cyclocross bike!

I bought the bike second hand, so it hasn't been set up specifically for me.
It's a hardtail, the front shocks (RockShox Reba RL 29) have too much pressure in at the moment, I'm just waiting for my shock pump to turn up (the front fork is at 15% sag at the moment).
I'm 66 kg, 181 cm tall and have a shoulder width of 39cm (think typical skinny road cyclist).
It's got 29x2.3" tyres, which are now set up tubeless, I'm running them at 25 psi.
The riding I do is generally signgletrack that isn't too technical, but with a lot of short, steep climbs/descents, plus a little bit of the easier trails in the woods - basically anything on the Mendips - invariably, I always end up starting and finishing my rides at the bottom of the Mendips, so I also do larger longer climbs/descents.
Most of the ground I ride is fairly typical Mendips bridleway, fairly smooth on the flat but the steep sections often have quite a lot of loose limestone (neither my cyclocross or monster cross bike could get up or down these climbs).

Thanks for the comments all, I think I'll leave the bike set up as it would have been from the shop for a while and then adjust it once I'm used to it a bit more. It already feels much more comfortable and easier to ride than my cyclocross bike, just need to do some fine tuning I guess.

Slammed stems are not for mountain bikes.

Rubbish. All depends how high you like you bars to be, especially on an XC bike. I always slammed the stem on an XC bike and I always cut the bars down. Not riding an MTB now but using riser bars and they are 620mm wide which is the width that feels right for me.

It is not a case of getting used to anything, it is about getting the stem height, length and bar width that the rider personally feels best on.

My 35mm stem is slammed for XC and it works fine!

All the XCO Pros are running wide bars these days, so there must be advantages in it.

Ninos on a -25 degree stem too and it doesn't hinder his skills!!!

Horses for courses, stick with what you have or return it to stock and see how it goes for a while and go from there.

@canyon48m I can't see anywhere where you say what size you bought?

couple of things, I wouldn't run that much pressure in the front tyre at your weight, I think I'd aim for 18-20psi range, but the forks set up to the right pressure will help massively here. While it's tempting to run with what you know in terms of bar setup to get yourself into a position that's more familiar, you do want to be a bit more upright on a mountain bike. you need some rear wheel traction, and a lot of front grip comes from tyre grip/tyre pressure/fork set up...rather than body weight.

but the bars are still vastly too wide. What width is most appropriate for XC?

without being funny, How would you know? 🙂 bar width is a funny one, I'm not much wider at the shoulder than you, and I happily run 800mm. There's no "correct" width, so don't get hung up on it.

I test rode it and it felt…. not right.

... mostly because of muscle memory and what you're used to, not because the bike is wrong. Give it some time. MTBs were designed quite poorly for a decade or more because road racers had influence and designed what they were familiar with rather than figuring out what really worked best. We all do it. Sometimes the best result in set up feels odd for ~12 hours or more of riding, esp if you to-fro between other bikes with very different set ups.

Bars have got almost silly-wide recently, I'm happy on ~720mm for XC and trail riding, could go wider but only on a big FS bike. 700mm wouldn't hold me back on a hardtail through the woods. I can't think how a 110mm stem would benefit any MTB but a 90-100mm might balance out OK if it's a large frame size. Generally, the wider the bar shorter the stem and VV seems to work but just a rule of thumb.

@Kerley, that is what I thought, my mates (also primarily road riders & racers) who have xc bikes have slammed 100mm stems and 620mm bars - cue, "normal" mountain bikers laughing at the lycra-clad xc guys haha!

@nickc - oops, forgot to mention, it's a large - which is what Specialized recommends based on my height and leg length using their calculator. Thanks for the info about tyre pressure, I'll knock out a few PSI from the front - the tubeless should help even more too. Fair point about bar width, it just feels strange, probably because I'm used to riding my cyclocross bike on trails (although after a few crashes, the final one putting me in A&E, I sold it to switch to a cross country mtb).

@jameso, I'm beginning to realise that based on the replies - I think I've got so familiar with my road position (I've got two road bikes, and they are both pretty aggressive), that it will take me a while to get used to the xc positon.

I should also point out, I put on the 110mm stem because it happened to be the only other stem lying around! Looking at Specialized's geometry chart for this bike, it appears that at some point the previous owner swapped the stock 100mm stem for the 80mm stem it had when I bought it, so I'll get hold of a 100mm.

^ well 10% stem length either way doesn't really make or break a bike and on a size L, maybe it'll work for you. I'd be inclined to go wider on the bar with a 70-80mm stem on a bike like that for a mix of position and handling but that's mainly because I'd still want an XC / XCO bike to be good at the tricky and fun stuff (fwiw I'm 6', ride road but not road race bikes and quite like a fast XC bike feel in an MTB).

@canyon47, bike should be the right fit at least (or in the ballpark) I'd be tempted, as Jameso points out to run a shorter stem (80cm and wider bar). IIRC the front wheel on the Chisel isn't the world's stiffest, you might find that with the fork at the right pressure, a bit of extra leverage (especially in the slop of coming winter) will make things a little less sketchy.

@jameso @nickc thanks both, I've done a bit of digging and found I have 3 100mm stems (three?!), so it's now on a 100mm stem but still with 750 (or 760, can't quite work out) bar width.

I'm going to leave the bars as they are for now, I imagine I'll get used to the width. The only thing I really don't find comfortable is, with my arms so far apart, I feel like I have to turn my right wrist in to operate the gears; usually, this wouldn't be a problem, but see my earlier post about an A&E trip, my wrist took a pounding and has been dodgy ever since (even on my road bike). It's much more comfortable if my hands a few cm closer together - that way my elbows aren't sticking out so much and my wrists aren't turning as much.

Agree with the comment about slammed stems not for MTBs. When I dabbled in XC racing a few years ago I slammed my stem, and had flat bars because I thought it would make me faster. Just increased the likelihood of going over the bars, especially combined with SPDs. Probably partly the case I wasn't that skilled either. Only just starting MTB is a very good reason not to go around riding with your arse in the air. Additionally there'll be less weight on your wrists and you can get it where it should be through your feet.

@cayon47, had a quick search in my spares and all I have is another 100mm stem (are they breeding?) or a 50mm, which you're welcome to, but I think would be too short. Re your wrist injury; MTB is all about elbows out TBH, might be an idea to rest up, and tackle it when you're back to near 100% rather than make drastic changes to the bars (you can only cut shorter once, after all)

@nickc, unfortunately, it seems the wrist injury is sticking around somewhat. I did it over a year ago and it still hurts on occasions (like sticking my front wheel in a pothole), the had it scanned a couple of times and the doctors say it's fine... Thanks for the stem offer, however, I've found I have a 70mm, 80mm, three 100mm and a 110mm stem (I have no idea where I got them from).

As pretty much the same height/weight (racing snake) build as you and also super comfy on drop bars hopefully I can make a recommendation.

I used to run a Spesh Carve (predecessor of the Chisel but slightly steeper HTA iirc) with 75mm stem and 740mm bars. My son then had the bike with 720mm bars but he is shorter.

I then bought a Surly KM Ops (both bikes I’m talking about were size large). This came with 750mm bars and a 100mm stem. As much as that appealed to the roadie side of me I ended up swapping for a 70mm stem and the bike just felt ‘better’ overall.

It is a huge difference jumping from road to MTB at times (if you set up your road bike race style) imho. After my bikes were stolen I now own a proper LLS Hardtail which I thought would take an age to get used to be but actually it is the most intuitive bike I’ve ridden off-road, but I digress.

My advice would be try the 70mm. Let the wider bars slow the steering that the shorter stem speeds up. Give it some time and I reckon you might even come to enjoy it.

I'm definitely a roadie and wanted to avoid falling down bad geometry traps with my recent build (first MTB for a decade). I used Lee McCormack's RAD system:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/lee-mccormacks-guide-to-perfect-bike-set-up.html

I've built an XC bike, but ended up with a 40mm stem and 740mm bars. I was a bit skeptical but decided to trust the system - I'm really glad I did because the bike feels perfect.

Just gave it a proper ride, as it is, with 100mm stem and 750mm bars.

It's easily a match for my cyclocross bike, only a couple seconds slower on the climbs - but this is mostly because I'm very unfamiliar with the feel of climbing on an xc bike and one of the lower gears skipped a couple of times.

The big difference, it turned descents that on my cyclocross bike were horrible, technical, difficult into easy, very fast, fun downhill sections 😀

All I need to do is nail the setup and get more used to climbing, then hopefully I can attack my PR's.

I think I'll switch it to the 80mm stem and see how it feels. The only issue I have had is the recurrence of the wrist pain from my crash (15 months ago). My right wrist feels like it is turning inwards too much, causing some pain...

I’m 66 kg, 181 cm tall

Nothing wrong with the bike. Eat more pies - 2 or 3 a day and come back to us when you way closer to 100kg. Then we could look at a shorter stem.

Longer stems want narrower bars on any given setup.

I would say definitely try it stock for a good while. What works on a road bike won't work on an MTB. My mate has set up his old 26er to give a great climbing position that matches his road bikes (he's a roadie). I borrowed it for a ride, and it was good on the climbs but I could barely ride it down anything, it was terrifying. And this is me who rode a very similar old bike until 2015.

It will feel wrong at first but bikes have been evolving for the better, so give it a chance. I mean, if you were an XC skier and wanted to take up downhill, you wouldn't start by complaining how short and fat your skis were and then make them long and skinny.

My right wrist feels like it is turning inwards too much, causing some pain…

You could consider high-sweep bars to help this. I use one on one of my bikes. Very comfortable.

Also I should add for reference I'm 180cm and have a 90mm stem and 710mm bars on my XC race bike. I don't want to go too wide as it does affect climbing a bit. But 110mm would wreck the steering!