[Closed] Road rage assault on cyclist - victim sought

Magnatoms's Flow Chart. Firstly, it's just some bloke's view of how to use an ASL. He's entitled to his view, but I'd I drew a venn diagram or whatever it might look nice butit wouldn't be any more authoritative than it just being my opinion. Secondly, every time Mags posts a video, and he does a lot, he gets slagged off by people criticising him for doing so. In fact, by people saying exactly the same sort of things here. This forum seems to gave a high proportion of people who don't understand city riding...

Think about it

Thought about it and your wrong; no one would be celebrating a cyclists doing something illegal then assaulting a person.

Suggest you think about it..again.

dont understand who is seeking the cyclist or why

Swearing is not illegal per se. I find it hard to see anything that could be the foot getting run over on the video and from the cyclists lack of interest in the Audi until the Audi driver drives into the ASL nothing to suggest a prior incident.

[i]dont understand who is seeking the cyclist or why[/i]

I think it's the 'this is awful, something ought to be done about it' instinct kicking in.

The actual victim's probably trying to forget all about it whilst the world of social media is doing it's usual 'let's be detectives and find someone who may not want to be found' thing.

Plus someones got a good video of it and it woudl be a shame to waste it.

+1 for thank god I don't live in London.... & so many people. That's what I would struggle with the most.... wherever you go there's always somebody there...Where I live I can literally cycle 5 minutes and be on deserted rural roads.

I have just studied the clip again.......and in hindsight, the cyclist deffo got his just deserts..... 😀

The video should have been titled 'overly aggressive, confontational **** gets his comeuppance' saying he didn't deserve it is just dumb, he chased after someone then approached him screaming abuse in a threatening manner, personaly I'd see him a threat thinking he could resort to violance anytime and would have smacked him too.
If that was a lone women in the car he would have no doubt acted the same and left her scared sh1tless.
It's the only time I've ever wanted to congratulate an audi driver!

Anyhow, I thought this was a mountain bike forum, what are a load of roadies doing on here starting arguments? I don't remember seeing any audis on any "singletrack" I've been on.

Ian, I've thought about it again, and I think I still have a valid point. Maybe you wouldn't hail him a hero but my point was that the tone of a lot of peoples replies may be somewhat different. I'm not siding with either, and in my reply on page one, I already stated that the driver wasn't justified in punching him, just highlighting an alternative way of looking at the situation - that the cyclist was the aggressor in the confrontation.

There's a surprising number of people on this thread who have no idea what the ASL is for. Given that, perhaps the driver can be excused for not knowing either. Mind you, drivers have to undergo compulsory testing before being allowed out on their own. Perhaps if cyclists were too we'd have fewer folk excusing this ones illegal behavior.

Edit: wunundred!!

cyclist was in the right, in london its safer to fill up the width of the ASL zone rather than form a long queue in the gutter alongside cars/vans and lorrys. It feels a very unsafe place to sit if there are lots of cyclists.

sure the bike rider over reacted but he did not deserve the assault.

We watched this at work a few times and the drivers door is ajar when the guy gets out, then he gets back in the drivers side. Surely its the driver that did the punching and he just put his jumper back on after his fisty cuffs..

Driver is a tool and needs a fine, forward it to the rozzas and let them decide. If they can charge people for speeding via youtube videos they can sort this out easily enough.

Hmm.

Initial incident? Yep, nothing wrong with a little polite remonstration with the car driver, who at that point was certainly in the wrong. After that? Just leg him go off on his merry way to wrap his car around a lamp post or something. Perhaps even raise an eyebrow and say to a fellow cyclist, "What an idiot, eh?"

However, to chase him down? Asshat. Needless confrontation. What did he hope to achieve?

Something unrealistic like an apology from the driver and an admission of their driving error - i never chase down as they never do this so I agree it is pointless. That said the assault us still an assault and that [ and the RLJ] are by far the worse offences here and we should focus in that rather than point out how the victim could have avoided it - they always could have done something different but they are always still the victim.

but his actions don't excuse anything any of the occupants of the car did, which were all totally out of proportion.

gets his comeuppance' saying he didn't deserve it is just dumb, he chased after someone then approached him screaming abuse in a threatening manner, personaly I'd see him a threat thinking he could resort to violance anytime and would have smacked him too.

Chances are the cyclist would be done for a public order offence if he did come forward, even if it meant the passenger got done for assault.

Nothing stopping the police ticketing the driver straight away for the ASL offence if they're that concerned about it.

one thing I would like to add.......the driver punches like a girl... 😀

Chances are the cyclist would be done for a public order offence if he did come forward, even if it meant the passenger got done for assault.

Love how he's got another girly haymaker wound up and ready to go should the cyclist suddenly decide to stand up for himself. You can hear in the cyclists voice as he shouts 'EFFING PR1CK, YOU Nearly ran over my foot mate', by the time he gets to nearly ran over my foot, he's looked in the car and didn't like what he saw. At that point all the aggression has suddenly drained out of him to be replaced by a little fear at what may be about to happen. His voice goes very meek at the end of his sentence.

EDIT : Just to add, yes the car occupants are in the wrong

From that clip it was the cyclists right to sit anywhere within the box but why the need to backup alongside his car- that'd worry me as a driver that he'd catch the paint. Soo many points where the cyclist could have let it go.

Sorry, unless you are willing/able to escalate then you should chalk up any remarks/provocation. I've waved my hand in the air before/done the shake beans-thing and had someone slam on for instance.

My point (badly expressed) was that the cyclist probably won't bother coming forward for that reason, so the police should get on with the traffic offence, as that's clear-cut.

You would have thought that the system was broken if they couldn't locate and haul in the passenger in for a chat about the incident on the basis of third-party video alone.

asterix - Member

dont understand who is seeking the cyclist or why

I don't know, is it because they've got witnesses and proof of 2 different crimes committed within about 1 minute, and they'd quite like the raging cock who committed them to not do it again?

can I get a top-tube friendly printout of that flow chart, so i can examine it carefully as I approach ASLs? 😉

that'd worry me as a driver that he'd catch the paint. Soo many points where the cyclist could have let it go.

Q. Where did the cyclist disappear off to? I didn't see any right turn that he might otherwise have taken if he hadn't been so caught up in his little war.

Junkyard especially around Manchester you could possibly be looking at serious harm. Is it really really worth standing up for your right when faced with a 2ton lump of metal and/or god knows what contained within?

I read recently that the road rager you experience didn't just kick off at you, he'll have gotten out of the bed angry and been slowly building up until someone causes him to spill over the edge.

Let that person be someone else.

Last night someone tried indicating into my lane whilst alongside me - I gave him a short-beep to alert him that I was there- he flashed me pulled alongside and said 'dont you know what an indicator means pal'.

I explained to him about hatchings/give-way and indicators don't mean you have a right to change lane, only when safe to do so. There were two blokes in the car. Afterwards mrshora pointed out that I was right but surely 'was it worth it' (just incase?).

No I guess.

Let that person be someone else.

Agreed. It's just not worth getting angry, in a car, on a bike, on foot, whatever. Just let it slide.

hora, nail on the head mate.
with some of the folk knocking around the city centers nowadays I try to avoid as much confrontation as possible.
you may think you are a bit tough or such.....but there are far far worse folk knocking about.

you may think you are a bit tough or such.....but there are far far worse folk knocking about.

Yep- plus you can be a pretty good puncher but some folk literally are one-punch hitters who even when your down wont stop.

^^And if Mr Fist Pie himself says that...^^

😉

Is it really really worth standing up for your right when faced with a 2ton lump of metal

As for the rest whilst you may be correct they are still the victim of the asshat and not the cause.

I agree its almost always unwise to say anything to a driver as they dont go oh fair point mate i am so sorry i will alter my driving but , if someone does moan, it does not justify an assault and that is what we should be focusing on here

PS its amazing how many folk think an indicator gives them the right of way

seriously, I now go out of my way on my daily commute, to try and not annoy or upset anyone.
people and times have changed, and there are some pretty nasty angry folk knocking around. I love my canalside commute.

[quote=drlex]

aracer - Member
Swearing at somebody (not illegal)
[...]

I disagree that he posted the whole text of that part of the Public Order Act (including the defences). In reply to martinhutch, absolutely zero chance that could be proved beyond reasonable doubt given the statutory defence, and the CPS guidelines make it fairly clear that no charge would be brought for such an incident. No such defence available for driving into an ASL box or punching somebody.

I don't think anybody disputes that the cyclist was unwise to chase down the car, but that's not actually the point, and absolutely [b]nothing[/b] the cyclist does leads to him deserving a punch. I do wonder that some people on here seem to think there are circumstances in which violence is reasonable behaviour.

[quote=martinhutch ]You would have thought that the system was broken if they couldn't locate and haul in the passenger in for a chat about the incident on the basis of third-party video alone.

I think we all know the system is badly broken.

^ exactly ton. Let the rats fight among themselves.
You can be in the right all day long but making your point all the time or shouting about it will sooner or later get you punched. Reason and legality doesn't come into it at that time.
I don't believe in meekly giving bullying types their way but life lessons and common sense say pick your battles if you must have them and be aware of how it can end up. I've had a guy get out of a car and jab a screwdriver in my neck - how do you handle that?

Must have been your fault though jameso 😉

On a serious note though, that's awful, exactly the reason why I do my best to avoid any confrontations these days, there's no point going round like some kind of vigilante road-rules enforcer, as at some point its going to end in tears. Don't let the losers ruin your day!

Slightly OT but the Police really do have their hands full. There are some really really nasty pieces of work out there. They are working hard just to keep us at a civil level nevermind a traffic/cyclist spat ontop.

I agree it is not how I react.

That said the driver is the illegal one End of the their fault. Cyclist is at worst unwise driver at best a criminal

Plus when you hear a cyclist shouting at a car it always looks abit embarrassing/crap on the cyclist IMO. I never think 'go brother/etc' just ooo bit embarrassing/someones lost it.

I don't want to be 'right' laying in a coffin.

seriously, I now go out of my way on my daily commute, to try and not annoy or upset anyone.

+1, this is what I've been getting at in my earlier posts.

Although the cyclist was doing nothing wrong from a LEGAL point of view (initially anyway) by taking the ASL, he was (IMHO) unwise to do so since it caused an unnecessary boxing in of the car.

Being right is no real defence when faced with a cock in a tonne of car. No, of course the driver shouldn't have reacted in that way but neither should the cyclist have chased him down.

Look at the video right from the start - there's a sensible queue of cyclists in the left hand lane. All except for Mr Righteous who just has to go up the outside. Sure it was [b]legal[/b] but that doesn't make it the [b]right[/b] course of action for that particular situation.

And as others have said, as soon as the situation escalated, he should just have ridden off.

You can be in the right all day long but making your point all the time or shouting about it will sooner or later get you punched. Reason and legality doesn't come into it at that time.

^^ what jameso said

Look at the video right from the start - there's a sensible queue of cyclists in the left hand lane. All except for Mr Righteous who just has to go up the outside. Sure it was legal but that doesn't make it the right course of action for that particular situation.

Much like AlturaMan, who we all see every day. Everyone else waiting patiently in the ASL, he rolls through the rest of us, positioning himself just in front of the others, often just over the line in the pedestrian crossing area. Then, when the lights change, he grinds away in the biggest gear he has. Asshat.

The key thing here is, we all know who was in the wrong, but we also all know how that conflict* could have been avoided.

*Jameso's post above very neatly illustrates why avoiding conflict is [b][i][u]essential. [/u][/i][/b]

it caused an unnecessary boxing in of the car.

All except for Mr Righteous who just has to go up the outside.

In all this I think it's interesting how 'bad' from our POV a lot of driving is in Asia. No-one there seems to gives a toss, the traffic flows while people undertake, cut in, make squeezing, scary overtakes and tailgate all day. There's accidents and taxi rides there scare the crp out of me at times. But I've never seen any road rage. I'm not judging it aside from thinking it's risky, really just observing.

All I can think of is the differences in culture, our sense of ROW, ownership, entitlement and self vs their sense of being just one of many, not wanting to stand out much or make a fuss, a more accepting go-with-flow nature, something like that. Generalising but there's some truth in it.I'm not sure but it's interesting.
Makes me wonder if we create many of the issues around us ourselves yet perceive them as the fault of others by our defensive, fault-seeking nature. Choose your attitude etc. Amateur psychology BS, sorry ) but it affects how I react to these situations.
Dissecting incidents or rights of way etc doesn't change how people are, bad driving is a knock-on effect of stressed lives, ignorance etc. It's a bigger issue than just the driving and the police are too underfunded to address it as mentioned above.

[quote=crazy-legs ]
Although the cyclist was doing nothing wrong from a LEGAL point of view (initially anyway) by taking the ASL, he was (IMHO) unwise to do so since it caused an unnecessary boxing in of the car.
Why do you think the ASL is the full width of the lane?

I don't think anybody disputes that the cyclist was unwise to chase down the car, but that's not actually the point, and absolutely nothing the cyclist does leads to him deserving a punch. I do wonder that some people on here seem to think there are circumstances in which violence is reasonable behaviour.

If someone came up to you on the street angrily shouting right in your face - what would your response be? I don't think I'd hit them but I couldn't rule it out.

According to some on here you should 'stand up for yourself' in that scenario - but only if you're a cyclist.

Why do you think the ASL is the full width of the lane?

So we can annoy car drivers by boxing them in aggressively - can you not read 😉