Finally bit the bullet and bought a road bike with proper hydro disks, thinking being that I wouldn't have to worry about wearing out expensive rims in the wet.
First ride today in damp conditions and dear Lord they were noisy, squealing like a piggy when braking and constant grinding, to the point it ruined the ride somewhat. The wheel still spun freely, and the brakes are fine in the dry so I don't think it's a calipre alignment issue. I'm assuming the grinding is road grit getting between pad and disk, however this isn't something I've experienced with mtb brakes to anything like the same degree, despite riding in far worse conditions.
Initial thoughts are the pads are just for too close to the disk, but not sure I can do anything about that. Brakes are latest ultegra if that matters.
Given the whole advantage of disks is for wet weather riding it's not great that they perform like that as soon as it gets a bit damp.
Any thoughts on how to remedy the problem?
13thfloormonkey to the forum!!
Right at the start of your ride get a couple of heavy brakes from speed and you should then be ok. I’ve got 105 ish level hydraulics and that’s what I usually do on my commute.
If they are just new pads just sounds like they aren't bedded in properly?
Take out the pads, and under running water, rub pads together to take off a layer(obviously don't touch the pads with you hands), then fire then back on and they should bed in very quickly. I always do that with new pads, then go a find some big hills and bed them in properly after that.
If that doesn't work, then next guess would be that maybe the pads are contaminated somehow..
Everyone I know running discs on road all make noises 🙁
I'd be surprised if they aren't bedded in yet, I've done around 150 miles on the bike so far.
As I say they work perfectly in the wet. Grinding wouldn't have anything to do with the pads being bedded in would they?
Is it vibrating through the frame? Is everything tight?
Have you reset the calipers?
Are they finned pads?
Thanks Scotroutes 😉
I've tried 3 sets of brakes, SRAM, TRP and Shimano.
Have tried all the tricks in the book and have concluded that under certain conditions and riding styles, discs just are noisy! Thus the only disc braked bike I now own is my CX bike, because mud clearance and can't afford to change it (yet...).
Only thing I haven't yet tried is filing a chamfer into the pads to achieve some sort of toe in, and/or dremelling a slot in the pads just to see if it disrupts the squeel.
You can apply anti squeal tape to the back of the pads on a set of TRP Spyres but you need to remove pad adjusters to make space, means relying on barrel adjuster to adjust for wear but that's bad juju for performance... I never actually tested this setup outdoors so couldn't say if it worked or not.
I don't know anything about road disc brakes but from experience of MTB world, do you have sintered pads or are they typically resin for road? Sintered, metal stuff in them, add water and result is horrible noise.
Also off road it's wet mud we deal with and not too bad but if it's a wet armoured trail so it's just mainly water on the discs then yes they can get noisy. A long descent with feathered braking can shed the moisture though but hitting the brakes after a period of wet tail and can squeal. As said though, resin less so.
I agree that heat works, but it seems surprisingly difficult to get heat into pads and keep the rotors hot!
I was tempted to fit 140mm rotors for this reason (even at 85kg...) but my frame is spaced for 160mm minimum.
There's a lot of crap on the roads, oil, diesel, etc., that you just don't get off-road. Just look at how dirty chains get on road bikes.
I found organic pads to be far quieter than sintered on my Hope calipers. Spyres squeal whatever you try.
They should be centred, as they are fine when dry but I'm going to have to reset them as the the grinding was unbearable. Will also check everything is nice and tight.
Squealing I'm less bothered about as I don't spend much time having to brake on a road bike, and they still stop me fine. It's the constant grinding that is the issue.
Squealing brakes is the biggest problem with discs.
After a few wet road rides they start squealing loudly; to the point that I just didnt want to ride through the lanes in case I had to brake whilst approaching horse riders.
Its the reason I am so reluctant to get a new bike with them on.
What they add in benefits is very minimal - but they add a whole list of new problems.
Yup not yet convinced by disc brakes on road. Few guys ride the local chain gang on them and they always sound awful. Wet or dry I’ve never had an issue stopping on rim brakes on carbon wheels.
Mtb and gravel/cx bikes discs all the way !!
The trouble with road discs is that unless you ride big fast descents with a lot of braking you never get them up to temperature to burn all the crap off them.
Just ride along feathering the brakes and keep pushing when they start to bite.
What they add in benefits is very minimal – but they add a whole list of new problems.
I think if you are not seeing the benefits of disc brakes then you probably didn’t need them in the first place.
Ive got 105 hydros on my gravel and roadbike and id never go back, that said i do live in a mountainous area but even so, the extra power and feel of them gives so much confidence compared to the rims i had before
andypaul
I think if you are not seeing the benefits of disc brakes then you probably didn’t need them in the first place.
Ive got 105 hydros on my gravel and roadbike and id never go back, that said i do live in a mountainous area but even so, the extra power and feel of them gives so much confidence compared to the rims i had before
I got to agree. I certainly dont think that I needed them ... as certain as I dont think that most people in this country dont need them either.
As others have said - I am able to put myself over the bars or lock up the wheels using standard rim brakes in both dry and wet weather. Those that can`t are most likely the big biffas who are carrying a good few stone extra - or simply talking nonsense as is typical on STW.
What mountainous part of the UK are you out of interest?
I`m in the south wales valleys ... my typical ride cannot avoid a fair bit of climbing.
Latest gen ultegra hydro/mechanical gruppo here with 140mm Shimano rotors. No grinding or squeeling and above all I can stop in all conditions as good as my alloy rimmed bike previous (in the dry) -disks far surpass this in the wet.
Po
Carbon rims with swissstuff black stuff carbon pads on my TT bike (on Mavic ssc brakes with ultegra level levers)in the wet just generates noise and gives me something to hold onto.
I'll stick with my ultegra disks.
Alot of bikes are specced with off brand rotors to get round shimanos high price for the correct rotors.
Local shop constantly changes these rotors for propper ones on warrenty when customers complain about the noise.
If all you want to do is skids or go over the bars . As you were. Controlled braking is where it's at especially if you do actually leave this country and visit the Alps etc....
What mountainous part of the UK are you out of interest?
I live in the Slovak Republic , low tatras which is the equivalent of the highest regions of the UK.
Its the prolonged high speed descents which i really feel a massive benefit over the rim brakes, and 30mm tyres are a must too but thats another topic!
As others have said – I am able to put myself over the bars or lock up the wheels using standard rim brakes in both dry and wet weather. Those that can`t are most likely the big biffas who are carrying a good few stone extra – or simply talking nonsense as is typical on STW.
Ok, I’ll bite on this one. I’ve never had rim brakes on a road bike that will throw me over the bars even on the dry. Always had alloy rims and tried sram rival/ sram apex / Shimano 105 / Tektro. Tried a variety of brake pads. All of them have been pretty terrible in the wet and ending up a grindy mess.
Low to Mid level bikes I guess - Cannondale Caad9 105 / Giant OCR / Boardman Team Carbon. Shimano/ mavic / Ritchey wheels.
My current bike is a caad12 105 disc and it’s the first road bike that really stops well - wet or dry. Genuinely hugely powerful in the dry - you can pull an endo from braking on the hoods whilst seated if you want to. It’s a year and a bit old and I’m still on the original brake pads and I commute 2-3 days a week in all weathers.
I wouldn’t go back to rim brakes.
Caveat is that I mostly brake on the hoods - in the drops I can’t comfortably reach the brake lever with1 finger without slightly dragging the brake - it’s been like that in every road brake I’ve had. I should really check if there is any reach adjustment on the lever - think I have rs505’s - whatever the non series hydraulic 105 sort of level was.
I’m 12.5 stone and mainly mtb - the road bike is used for commuting and an occasional general fitness ride.
I’ve never had rim brakes on a road bike that will throw me over the bars even on the dry.
Got to say that's not my exp. In the dry I can easily lock up my carbon rimmed wheel, sometimes I do it by accident it's so easy to do. Well set up rim brakes have plenty of power, especially when it's dry. What they don't appear to have is as much modulation as my new disk brakes however.
As I said, the reason for going disk was to prevent grinding my rims to dust rather than a requirement for more stopping power.
[i]I’ve never had rim brakes on a road bike that will throw me over the bars even on the dry.[/i]
I've got 15 or so year old Campag Veloce rim brakes that will easily do that, wet or dry, and from the hoods. I still prefer disk brakes for the lack of rim wear though.
I've got a bike with Ultegra hydros. I've found that they are very sensitive to having the rotor perfectly centred. I still sometimes get a little bit of grinding in wet/gritty conditions, but braking heavily a couple of times generally clears it. The pads seem to run very close to the rotors, so I reckon this is just inevitable.
No grinding or squeeling
Terry- out of interest do your brakes genuinely not squeal in wet cold conditions (e.g. when you've been riding on the flat in the rain with no prolonged steep descents)? Or are you pre-dragging to warm/dry the rotor first?
My issue is that my winter riding is typically flat, wet and cold, and even when it's hilly I'm in no mood to be pulling late, hard stops on hills, so the brakes never warm up and never dry off if it's raining.
I'm running XT rotors on Deore brakes (to explain, my CX/Gravel and sometimes tarmac commuter bike used to be my mountainbike) so I don't think it's a rotor/brake mismatch.
Would still like to experiment with smaller rotors, maybe if I ever upgrade to a proper CX frame that can take 140mm.
I can genuninely say that barring my 3 pairs of various xt brakes none of my brakes squeel.
I wouldn't stand for it.
My hopes on the mtb might have a random wee bit of a whine on the first cold brake of a winter's day wet downhill but its gone within a couple of revolutions and it rarely happens.
I did have a squeel on my ragley but that waS due to my floating rotor wearing at the join and allowing vibrations-replaced the rotor and away the squeel went.
My ultegras have never squeeled. - only 6 months old but done 1400km. Being able to brake nice and late on SA colabra descent was nice.
My Hayes on the commuter/winter bike don't squeel.
My v brakes on my fixie whine like a banshee because the bushes on the pivots are so worn they flop about
All of my xt hydralics have developed horrid squeels in almost all conditions to the point I no longer buy them.
I'm worried the ultegra calipers develope the same leaks but have noted that hope do replacement calipers 🙂
the apex hydro on my commuter bike squeal in the wet (nothing when dry) I don't worry about it as it's a useful warning system!
the apex hydro on my commuter bike squeal in the wet (nothing when dry) I don’t worry about it as it’s a useful warning system!
Ive already got a Hunt freewheel for that - no bell required!
I can genuninely say that barring my 3 pairs of various xt brakes none of my brakes squeel.
Was that a leaking seal issue or do you think the newer Ultegra callipers are different in some way?
Do you do anything to regularly heat the brakes up e.g. big hills etc? I could get the idea that the brakes occasionally need a good heating up but it would actually mean going out of my way to find a suitable hill etc. Am not prepared to waste good riding time just to burn off a set of pads occasionally (baby in the house now, riding time is precious as I'm sure you know! 😉 )
Seals im sure.
As for hills. I do live on the edge of the Cairngorms many rides of more than 30km generally involve big hills.