[Closed] Road discs - tell me Im wrong

You're wrong.

HTH

<standard STW answer to complaint about poor road braking>Though I'm not quite sure what you're wrong about, I suspect different brake pads would probably make a huge difference to your current experience.</standard STW answer to complaint about poor road braking>

you're wrong

you're confusing power with control and modulation in all conditions

You're [i]probably[/i] wrong. Basically good brakes put power in your hands, if you do something totally incompetent it might well suck so the idea is just to not do that. In practice I reckon you'll find that the increased control makes you quite a bit safer, but you never know.

I'm repeatedly assured by the anti-disc brigade that a set of cantis can easily lock up a thin road tyre and that there is, therefore, no need for discs. I thus fail to see your argument.

Listen to JoB.

You're wrong.*

*I haven't read the OP.

So basically you are riding around half the time pretty much out of control because you cant stop if you need to.. Not only are you probably wrong you are also going to ride over kittens or childrens faces because you cant stop

Whatever brake you fit they are only as good as the tyres....

IF you can lock the wheel (eventually) then you have all the power you need and you should adapt to the increased modulation that set up affords.

I have standard road bike brakes and find they work fine... as you say the additional power, of a disc set-up, will reduce modulation and make it more likely that you'll land on your ar5e one day.

Your opinion may vary 8)

So STW roadies - discs, tell me Im wrong...............

My Orange P7 is currently shod with slick road tyres, but I've learned that they're a little sudden when paired with my Hope Minis. I've learned the feather my brakes, which at this time of year is a a given when you're braking on wet, slippery surfaces.

You'll be fine.

I have TRP Hylex on my tourer and am v happy with braking in all conditions. I may upgrade in the future when Shimanos drop in price
It's got 700 x32s on it so decent contact patch but I don't know what discs feel like on a race bike

If you use discs like cantis, then yes they'll lock up. If however, you brake progressively (like in a car in wet conditions), they'll stop you more quickly. You won't wear rims out. Braking will be more consistent in all conditions. You'll look better, *maybe*. Old fellas will laugh at you.
Do you need them? Only you know.

I've ridden a disc braked bike with 23mm tyres - AND LIVED!!!

Plenty of squeals and howls coming from the couple of disk braked bikes on our chaingang on long descents (quite startling if you're close to the offending wheel and not expecting it), so as long as you can keep on top of the noises! Not sure why they are intermittently noisy but could be oil spray thrown up from the road? Wiping with brake cleaner fixes it for a while.

I was out in awful conditions this evening on a club ride. My Ultegtra brakes never felt as if they wouldn't stop me with good modulation on Mavic CXP33 machined rims. A little scrapey occasionally, but nothing serious. Modulation is more important than power. I could lock up the back wheel if I wanted, disk or no disk.

And the hydraulic STIs fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

I'm definitely sticking with discs and going hydraulic on the next road bike.

My Shimano CX75 cable discs on the cross bike feel much better than the R650 on my road bike (using the same tyres). The discs have more modulation and power is immediate if I need it, it doesn't ramp up as the surface clears of water and crud. It stops quicker, feels more consistent and predictable, and I feel more in control if there is a "moment". Power delivery is the important bit, most brakes can lock a wheel up.

I gave up on rim brakes on my MTB in the 90s when discs were available, I've got no attachment to them at all on road bikes either. If people prefer rim brakes then that's fair enough.

Oh and crashing because you have more effective brakes sounds like user error 😛

Shirley your brakes can't have too much power? On a dry day I expect to be able to do stoppies if I choose, in the wet I'll - get this - use less lever pressure. Works every time.

Failure to read the conditions and act appropriately will result in a crash regardless of the bits and bobs on yer bike.

As the old Pirelli adverts used to say... Power is nothing without control.

The grey matter inbetween your ears has far more to do with you crashing or not than the brakes fitted to your bike. Inability to read the conditions and modulate your braking accordingly will mean you'll probably have an accident!

Think of it this way... Modern cars have very powerful 4 wheeled disc brake systems fitted, with enough power to easily overcome the grip of all 4 fairly substantial tyres even in bone dry conditions, yet they all come fitted with ABS... Why? Well 9/10 of us probably never need it, but there's always 1 that just can't read the road well enough and ABS has been their safety buffer a number of times.

There is no ABS on bikes (yet), but more powerful brakes is a good thing. It is up to the user to learn to control them effectively...

Don't have a problem with Ultegra brakes myself, but also can't see how discs are any more dangerous than the user.
what does strike me is that roads have an awful lot more oil based sludge on them than trails and it might be easier for discs/pads to get contaminated then they would with mtb use?

[i]as you say the additional power, of a disc set-up, will reduce modulation and make it more likely that you'll land on your ar5e one day.[/i]

I'm not sure that you understand what modulation is?

I quite like these threads it takes me back to the good old days of topics like;

"Replacing V-brakes on my mtb with Disks - will my face just keep going if I brake too hard"

what does strike me is that roads have an awful lot more oil based sludge on them than trails and it might be easier for discs/pads to get contaminated then they would with mtb use?

No. A wet muddy mountain bike ride contaminates your discs with grit quite readily and the result is braking delay, noise and that grey sludge that dribbles down the calliper and the stays. On the road on my Tricross with cable discs the braking as good in the wet as in the dry and the brakes stay pretty clean.

I also can't wait for hydraulic discs to trickle down in price as my next road bike will definitely have them; I SO hate the sound of pads grinding away my rims and the resulting nasty grey sludge - exactly the same as I did with mountain bike rim brakes.

I haven't read a single review where the tester didn't think disc brakes were absolutely brilliant and that they were subsequently convinced they were a good idea.

I have hydraulic shimano discs on my road bike now and I would never go back.

Difference is like night and day vs rim brakes.

Can stop very very quickly and without locking up.

- I can lock my wheel easily with rim brakes
- The wheel is like a giant disc
- Dangerous amounts of power
- ugly
- not enough contact patch
- peleton danger noise power menace
- etc.

Pick any or all of the above, and repeat until the earth is flat again...

I treat a set of 28mm Conti GP's as my Summer Skinnies so may not be the best person, but:

For me it's very simple. Disc brakes give me control and if I need it, power, in all conditions and whether the rim is wet, covered in mud, frozen whatever makes no difference. Ultimately maintenance is simpler as I no longer need to keep rims clean and free of whatever you call brake dust on a bike (probably brake dust...)

Ultimately contact patch and quality of surface / tyre are the limits of braking, but that's missing the point. When you feel the need to invoke action at the limits, you're out of control and unsafe.

I have no need or wish to make myself need to deal with rim brakes ever again.

At some point my CX may sprout hydraulics, but even the cables it's currently running are an awesome improvement.

iamsporticus - Member

It occurred to me that ... slamming on a new set of hydraulic Shimanos would probably have me sliding down the asphalt on my arse ... So STW roadies - discs, tell me Im wrong...............

well, if you would insist on 'slamming' your brakes on, then yes, you might have problems.

when your brakes work, you don't need to 'slam' anything.

I haven't read a single review where the tester didn't think disc brakes were absolutely brilliant and that they were subsequently convinced they were a good idea.

Shocker!

what does strike me is that roads have an awful lot more oil based sludge on them than trails and it might be easier for [b]rims[/b]/pads to get contaminated then they would with mtb use?

Fixed.

Stick some minions on.

87 psi

You're all wrong, I'm right.

HTH

😛

On a slightly related note, what annoys me is that while ze Germans have had the RS685s for yonks, it's looking like UK won't be getting them till next year now.*

*Going off Wiggle and CRC.

Disc brakes are coming, once they really hit their straps even the gnarliest old roadie will be telling us how good they are. I have discs on a nippy hybrid, and for dealing with traffic {idiots} they're way better than rim anything brakes. Just being able to put the bike into a slide and lie it down is reason enough. But they're just generally better behaved in any situation, predictable and controllable in a way that rim brakes can't be.

I will keep banging on about this until it is demonstrated to be true but the most compelling reason to move the industry over to disc brakes is not stopping power, it's that when we do, the benefit to wheel design and manufacture will be huge.

You can already buy carbon rims for £150 or less but there are still issues running them with clinchers and braking performance in the wet. Most people don't want to run tubs and even those that do (I do) still have a problem with with performance in the wet.

Cheap, reliable and high performance carbon wheels will be everywhere once we have solved the problem of braking performance and heat. WHich is what disc brakes will do.

"It occurred to me that an emergency stop with my current brakes would involve me taking a long time to come to a halt, but slamming on a new set of hydraulic Shimanos would probably have me sliding down the asphalt on my arse due to the small rubber contact patch being unable to make use of the stopping power on a greasy road

So STW roadies - discs, tell me Im wrong...."

no you are absolutely right

current set up a long time to come to a halt ?

slamming on a new set of hydraulic Shimanos would probably have me sliding down the asphalt ?

but don't worry too not being able to do an emergency stop will sort the problem at some point 8)

....edit ride a disc cx stylee sometimes with 25mm road tyres and sometimes in the rain and my perspective is that braking is good and consistent rather than poor and inconsistent

I found that the TRP spyres I had were really good stoppers in terms of power but it as the modulation that was really inspiring.

Grab a fist full of the levers and you will induce a skid but otherwise much more control.

I found that with 23c tyres on I was more prone to locking up as the contact was quite small on higher pressures. I have now gone to 28c on the Tripster and the power regulation is even better now.

I don't have a great deal of grip when riding off-road in runny mud, but I'd still much rather be using discs than v-brakes. As others have said, you have so much more control over braking force.

Given that, I would expect a similar benefit on the road - my next bike will definitely have them.

"It occurred to me that an emergency stop with my current brakes would involve me taking a long time to come to a halt, but slamming on a new set of hydraulic Shimanos would probably have me sliding down the asphalt on my arse due to the small rubber contact patch being unable to make use of the stopping power on a greasy road

Wrong.

As we discussed years ago, the real benefit of discs over v-brakes or calipers now is control, not power. I lock up far less with discs than I ever did with rim brakes. As such, I reckon I'm far less likely to do the sliding down the asphalt thing.

Plenty of squeals and howls coming from the couple of disk braked bikes on our chaingang on long descents

*yes I know it's crap technique but it was the descent into bottomley on the MTL, already had 2 punctures, 35c tires, rigid, I wasn't risking another pinch flat.

I cannot lock up my wheels in the wet, no matter how hard I brake. In fact I can't do much more than decelerate gently. If it's not too steep.

Discs for me please.

I cannot lock up my wheels in the wet, no matter how hard I brake

Discs for me please.

I can see how discs would appeal if your current setup is that bad.

It's standard 105 calipers with Ultegra levers. I'm talking about riding in persistent pouring rain mind.

Ultegra calipers are on my Christmas list.

A while since I had a bike with 105 calipers but try different pads as I don't recall them being so bad. I ran kool stops on mavic open pros iirc