[Closed] Road bike wheel re-build - what would you do?

I've just had a similar predicament myself, I was sat in LMNH a few weeks ago and after settling on Archetypes on my HOPE Pro 3's I decided to let them build them up, when I saw the Archetypes first hand I nearly died as they looked Shiite, and for as many posts I'd read that said they were the Holy Grail to wide rims and all things robust on the cobbles or potholes as many people said the exact opposite,

The finish was shocking, they weren't particularly great quality wise so I sat back down with my Coffee and Guinness cake and started googling again, Frank nipped back downstairs to grab some Pacenti's which I poo poooood just because of the stickers, sad I know and they could be great rims but I thought if they can't be arsed with proper stickers then where else have the corners been cut. Off he went and back he came with some HED Belgium+ 25mm rims 😯

The look weight and feel seemed perfect, the build quality speaks for itself, Sam builds some fantastic Wheels.
32Hole with 28mm Duranos, the ride is super comfy and I can play about with tyre pressures. The extra grip is there from the wider tyres and it corners far better than it did, Mines on a CX framed bike so I've got huge clearance out to about 40's I think so check this on yours, Just out of interest where were they from as I had some Flow Ex built last year from up North that kept coming undone, when I took them back to show them their excuse was that if I pinched the spokes then they would loosen as they are wearing where I'm rubbing them together........... I had to explain that I hadn't been sat at home for hours playing with my spokes and that the spokes had loosened so much that I could turn the nipples by hand, this happened whilst riding and wasn't good enough, he then asked if I'd been riding down steep hills? As repeated braking could flex the rim loosening the spokes, I had to ask if he actually believed what he was saying which he assured me he did. I've not been back since, useless bastard.

Have a tinker with them yourself: if you take your time with them, they should become, and remain, true. If it screws up, you have lost nothing and can always build another rim on them/pay someone to do it.

Not meant to be flippant: learning to build wheels is fun!

Nothing wrong with the Architype's, their the go to rim for a lot of people. Saying that if they haven't worked for you and you don't want to take up the offer from the original builders just move on. Not sure what Bromley's issue is with Archy's ? But that doesn't ring true either. Sounds like their only interested in what they sell.

It's a shame you've had bad luck with the Archetypes. I've had a couple of sets, one from JRA aswell, and I think they're the best about for the money. Maybe their quality has gone downhill a bit?

The Pacenti's are supposedly good, although I think they had their problems aswell. I'm sure they've been sorted now though.

Aren't there two versions of the Archetype? A v1 and a v2? Sure i saw it mentioned on a website somewhere. V1 was a bit wobbly and not so easy to keep true, V2 got heavier and stiffer in some way.

I think it's V3 now, initially they were made in the states and then production moved, the first few batches were a bit squiffy I think that's why Strada had some probs with them? Not sure tho but I know QC slipped when production moved and they had bolster it back.

Just for the record it was NOT JRA that shoddily built up my Stans rims, thought I'd best clear that one up as I don't want to doing those guys a disservice as I have had wheels off these guys before, the only reason why they didn't do my HED rims was because they don't build on hubs that they haven't previously supplied. Otherwise I'd have had them done there.

Thanks for the replies.

Despite not being happy with the original build I'm happy to put this behind me and move on - I think in future i'll stick with using a local wheel builder I can talk to face to face - and work with to find a solution if a problem arises.

The crux of the problem is I now have no confidence in these wheels - I've got a 2 week riding holiday in France this summer + the Ride London 100, and don't want to be fretting about my wheel letting me down.

Am I better off -
A - selling the wheels whole on ebay and starting from scratch. (might get £200ish?)
B - breaking them down and re-using the Hope hubs for a new build?

by all accounts there was a bad batch of Archetypes which led to the sort of wheel you describe, and is why one of the big wheel builders (Strada?) don't use them anymore.

Unless you've got very fancy hubs, it's rarely worth rebuilding. Just go for new again. DT 350s FTW

Keep the hubs, scrap the rims.
12 months isn't a [i]bad[/i] life for a pair of rims if you weigh 100 kilos. And would you really want to sell them on with an issue you know about?

There are plenty of other rims about which can be built up for not much money. (Relatively)

davidtaylforth - Member

Unless you've got very fancy hubs, it's rarely worth rebuilding.

This was pretty much what I was thinking - at least that way there is no chance whoever builds my next set of wheels can blame the 'secondhand' hubs if something goes wrong further down the line.

Freeagent, Option B.

You clearly like the hubs, utilise these in some new rims, I whole heartedly reccomend HED BELGIUM+ The quality is fantastic, and they are a classy looking wheel.
Sapim spokes

DO NOT cut the spokes out of your old wheels while under tension, back them off a bit first so you don't damage the Flange,

If you're London-based, have a chat with Condor

I have a pair of Condor rims on their Uno hubs which came with my Tempo, which have had 2.5 years of London commuting and been very good indeed - never come out of true. One snapped spoke and another which looks like it has a kink in it which probably needs replacing but given the use they've had I've been pretty impressed

I've had a pair of Archetypes built up (in a hurry - was off on multi-day trip and my existing wheels/hubs had crumbled) - by, I suspect, the same outfit. Down South to me but probably midway. They've been faultless (this was a couple of years ago, not sure what they were).

This was for a gravel bike, Hope hubs for me too. Have been very pleased. Just for the record..

Talk to Harry Rowland. He builds excellent wheels with trusted components. Mavic CXP33's have been highly recommended by heavier riders in the US.

I'd start again.

Whereabouts are you? I've built hundreds of wheels and would be happy to talk wheels. Email is in profile.

As others have advised...keep the hubs and get them re-built

12 months isn't a bad life for a pair of rims if you weigh 100 kilos.

I'd disagree, it's pants (with the caveat that a year doesn't translate to a fixed mileage, and it's mileage that's important). I'm 10% shy of that weight, but I often ride with a bit of luggage, and I've just sold a set of wheels I've been using regularly for four years, during which time—to the best of my recollection—I adjusted two or three spokes on the rear wheel, once, very slightly. Admittedly 32/36h rather than the OP's 28/32, but still.

Sounds like a poor build OP

As too some shops not using H plus son rims a lot of shops don't want to use big momma distributions as the margins are very slim could be the real reason.

And xyeti cheers for The heads up you weren't sending me the hubs too be built up I do enjoy ordering in parts for people then not hearing from them to say they don't want them.

Could it be possible to keep hubs and spokes? Find a different rim with same ERD?

[quote="Bez"]I'd disagree, it's pants (with the caveat that a year doesn't translate to a fixed mileage, and it's mileage that's important).I suspect clumsy and 100KG might be more critical with the failures being experienced rather than mileage. I'd not be happy with a year, but then i'm neither clumsy or 100KG. On the flip side, the nearest i've come to "clumsy" is bunch racing. Unsighted, travelling at speed, clip some junk in the road, or hit a pothole/cobble a bit skewed (i.e. "Clumsy"). Bang, Time for a new wheel please. Even when i was nearer 60KG.
The training wheels would usually be rolled out for two or three seasons, despite the mileage.

12 months isn't a bad life for a pair of rims if you weigh 100 kilos. And would you really want to sell them on with an issue you know about?

I'd dispute this. I'm over 100kg, clumsy and my road rims have always lasted until the pads have worn through the rim. My lack of finesse is evidenced by the fact I get less than 1000 miles for a rear tyre.

The CXP23s on my lightest bike are 16 years old, have been ridden to Rome from London (including Strade Bianche), used on commutes during the summer, probably done >20000 miles. And won a couple of 'sporting' time trials.

I build my own and use a tension meter. For the OP, a tension meter might be a decent investment.

Accepting that you have made up your mind and want a new wheel build, Go with your option 'B'.

If you like the hub's just strip them and flog the rims, you'll get something for them (1 year old archetypes will sell) which can then go towards the new wheel build along with the hubs...

If you sell your whole wheelset, your still going to have to replace the hub's, probably with the same thing? So you'll not be gaining anything other than a bigger bill...

Thanks guys - much food for thought..

Happy to accept my original build was probably a combination of a (possibly)Shonky rim and 'Friday afternoon' build.

On reflection i'll probably keep the hubs, they are £200+ for the pair new, and i'll doubt I'd get much more than that for selling the whole wheels, and not totally happy with the idea of palming them off on anyone else.

I'm sure a pair of Architype rims will sell on ebay for something..

I'm going to get them rebuilt onto new rims by someone local - i'll feel happier about having local after-sales care rather than being remote.

Good move. I'd go with some Mavic CXP33's and new Sapim spokes. Properly built, these wheels will be maintenance free. They aren't the oh-so-trendy wider profiles that everyone seems to rave over#, but mine wear 25 and 27c tyres just fine, have ridden the Belgian cobbles and generally have been flawless.

#Over-rated based on my experience of some wider Giant carbon clincher wheels - both with 25c Vittoria Open Paves

On the flip side, the nearest i've come to "clumsy" is bunch racing. Unsighted, travelling at speed, clip some junk in the road, or hit a pothole/cobble a bit skewed (i.e. "Clumsy"). Bang, Time for a new wheel please. Even when i was nearer 60KG.

But "clumsy" like that usually means rim damage, which—as you hint at—is usually more acute and terminal than a wheel repeatedly going out of true, especially in the case of the rear, which is pretty much always going to hit things straight-on. If the OP's had both wheels done repeatedly, and the rear done four or five times, that sounds like poor building to me. (Can never be certain from a brief online description, though.)

I build my own and use a tension meter. For the OP, a tension meter might be a decent investment.

I build my own too. I confess I don't use a tensiometer, but I certainly use more tension than most (or possibly all) wheels I've had built by others, whether machines or humans. The only issues I've ever had have been due to insufficient tension in their builds (which is why I started building my own), not excessive tension in mine. The OP's experience sounds wholly compatible with an under-tensioned wheel, IME.

But "clumsy" like that usually means rim damage,

that sounds like poor building to me

And i don't know if we've established who built them yet, but there are a hell of a lot of wheelbuilders who really aren't. Happy enough with a pair of 32H 3x mavic on shimano hubs. Give them a triplet laced 24H with straight pull on the drive side, or a flexible lightweight rim that's not perfectly round and flat out of the box and it's game over.

"[i]...their excuse was that if I pinched the spokes then they would loosen as they are wearing where I'm rubbing them together... he then asked if I'd been riding down steep hills? As repeated braking could flex the rim loosening the spokes..[/i]"

That is just shocking 😯

I taught myself to build wheels when I was about 14, using Jobst Brandt's book and an old spare wheel. This was long before the internet. My Dad, being a bit keen on his food, had long had trouble with breaking spokes on various wheels from various builders. A rear wheel I built for him, the second wheel I'd ever built, lasted for years until the bike was stolen. I built myself a pair of wheels, XT hubs & MA40 rims. Used for cycling to school every day with loaded panniers, some touring holidays and misc use ever since, they have never broken a spoke and have barely needed truing in over 20 years.

Wheel building [b]is not difficult[/b], but it's time consuming to get it right. I can only assume most of these professional wheel builders don't have enough time to do a proper job.

By 'clumsy' I just mean hitting the odd pot hole (roads round here are shocking) - I'm not some fool who regularly rides into lamp posts!

TBH it could be a combination of a marginal build in a not very suitable configuration with a slightly underweight rim.

This is basically my conclusion.
I've had a year/2000 miles out of them, much of which has been on the previously mentioned crap roads.

And i don't know if we've established who built them yet,