[Closed] Road bike brake dilemma

If I was buying a new road bike is want discs, regardless if it was a summer bike or not.

However I've just put some Swisstop pads on my Tarmac (Specialized own brand callipers) and I'm more than happy with the braking now.

FWIW I'm not a serious roadie though.

Don't think you'd be making a mistake.

Having just gone through the same process I went with discs for the summer bike but my primary reason for that was nothing to do with the quality of the braking, good rim brakes are excellent and more than good enough for a summer bike certainly.

My motivation behind discs was because I went with carbon rims and as far as I'm concerned carbon rims with rim brakes is just silly. Braking is worse, the material is simply not suited to being a braking surface and many other reasons.  If this is an issue for you then that might be cause to re-think, otherwise I'd have a grand time enjoying the new bike in the current lovely weather..

FYI, if you are interested there is an excellent video on YouTube interviewing a carbon expert about why the current trend for discs on road bikes is more about rims than braking.

Here it is..  

I have the same quandary. I'm definitely leaning more towards disc. I'm not a lightweight super fast roadie so extra weight on the bike stuff doesn't match extra weight on the body.

However, if I did decide to go with rim brakes (and in the dry, I'm sure a dual pivot caliper would do) I would only do it with alu rims. I don't believe carbon rims offer the same friction or can cope with the heat.

Plus, I like the idea of bolt through, which no one offers on caliper equipped bikes.

EDIT: - beaten by a minute! Great minds think alike.

discs here... why would chose something performs less well?

summer bike or not, discs are just better, this is a fact

In the dry the braking distance between top end road disk brakes and a decent set of calipers is very little. Gcn tested dura ace disks vs 105 calipers and the difference was a couple of feet stopping from 40km/h

If you care about modulation that's a different story I imagine

Whether or not you think disk brakes are a good idea, consider the resale value and those who might want to buy it in future. In a few years, a road bike without disk brakes will be worth nothing.

The difference you felt in braking between your mtb and your current road bike is meaningless.When you start talking about road bike braking the size of the tyre contact patch has a considerable effect.

You don't say what brakes the bike you have ordered has, but if they are dual pivot 105 or above brakes I, myself would be perfectly happy with them for the riding I do here in the alps (including narrow steep gorge type roads cut, and road racing. However I might just go for discs on my next bike: I don't know yet, it will likely be a good few years away anyway. If I was to order a new gravel/ light tourer/ cyclo-cross/adventure/ endurance type road bike then I would get discs.

However it really is a personal thing including how long you will have the bike for, what type of roads you will be riding, your riding style, your experience, your aspirations...the list is endless.

braking isn't just about how quickly you can come to a stop, nor is it about the ability to lock up the wheels...

discs, discs, discs

I think I would want discs just for those Summer days when you are hurtling down a huge Alpine road descent in pouring ice cold rain.

Also consider cost: If you race, or have a high chance of being in a potential crash or other ways of getting damaged  then the cost of replacement of a caliper brake STI vs. a disc brake STI is significant.......

and cue people pointing out that with disc brakes the chance of a crash is reduced...Can never account for the actions of others though...

If I was planning on keeping it for a while I'd go calipers and qr's. I reckon those will outlast the current road disc 'standards'.

For a new bike, discs every time - assuming good hydraulic ones.

Rim brakes work well when it's dry but they wear rims, don't work too well in the wet, don't like long fast stops and simply don't look as good.

Some moot points and yes it may be a summer bike, but if it is in the UK you will get caught out in the rain once or twice.

Discs for me everytime, unless the bike I really really wanted was only available with rim brakes - which is unlikely.

braking isn’t just about how quickly you can come to a stop, nor is it about the ability to lock up the wheels…

I'd say braking is 95% about how quickly you can come to a stop! Some people may want more feel or modulation but in the dry I have never thought calipers were lacking in this regard.

Brakes ordered are single Ultegra (dual not available on the Enigma Excel) and part of a Di2 group.

My new wheels are aluminium but carbon could be an option in the future.

Not bothered about resale in the future as the frame is custom so would have a limited market if I were to sell.

As I say I don’t want to F this up!

I’d say braking is 95% about how quickly you can come to a stop! Some people may want more feel or modulation but in the dry I have never thought calipers were lacking in this regard.

so we agree it's not just about coming to a stop then?

purely for summer riding

Summer...

Unless you're racing, discs.

Like others, if I was buying an expensive road bike I'd get one with discs, mainly to have the option of upgrading to some silly carbon rims. Plus summer in the UK still involves rain

I 'upgraded' to single pivot callipers no so long ago on my summer bike.

If you believed the hype then I should have died in a fiery fireball of instant death with an added amount of mortality.

I didn't. I don't lock up due to a lack of modulation, despite being paper thin lightweight ones my rims are a few thousand miles old. They do in fact work still work in the wet and I've yet to embed myself up the arse crack of a disk brake equipped roadie.

My other (CX) bike has disk brakes, they also work. They don't make me more attractive to the opposite sex though which you'd think they would given how much some people go in about them.

Having said all that. I'd probably want disks on a new bike if everything else was equal. They are a nice bit of bling and I suspect calliper braked bikes will be "not dead" in the same way 26" isn't pretty soon.

I’d go discs (and I have recently done so) personally.   Whilst on the road bike with rim brakes (Rival sti’s / Apex calipers - and I have previously had 105 all round) in the dry I generally thought I could stop ok, obviously in the rain braking was massively worse.

Now got 105 level hydraulic discs and it genuinely feels like a game changer. As much braking as you possibly want ever - wet or dry.

Obviously I wouldn’t recommend the 105 level sti’s when you were going Dura ace (the 105 shifting is a little vague and there is a funny lump on the inside of the level where they put the bleed port), but Ultegra hydraulic stis are meant to be much better.

so we agree it’s not just about coming to a stop then?

Yes we do. But unless you aren't very competent as a rider the other aspects are pretty insignificant

One thing that never seems to be brought up in these discussions is the positives of calipers.. They never rub, they are lighter, cheaper.

There are advantages both ways. For riding in all conditions I'd get disks, but for dry weather I think the advantages of calipers outweigh those of disks.

Op, I can't help but think that you will regret not going disk from reading between the lines.

For a custom frame you will have for a while you should be 100% happy with it. You don't want lingering doubts.

It's not necessarily a rational decision, its about what you want as much as "need".

One thing that never seems to be brought up in these discussions is the positives of calipers.. They never rub,

They do if you knock your wheel out of true.

Ultegra calipers vs Ultegra discs on big mountain passes - in the dry, f-all real difference. Ultegra calipers and pads modulate superbly. Discs add a bit of confidence as you can brake a tad later, if you really can take that gamble. The only difference in speed down the hill is in lines and braking point use.

On steeper UK roads in the wet, discs. Easier control at the edge of grip.

Proper summer road bikes are just a lot nicer with caliper brakes, fact (imo).

But

carbon rims with rim brakes is just silly

Yes.

Take your pic... tech or style, or a bit of both?

In a few years, a road bike without disk brakes will be worth nothing.

In opposition, I present a Colnago Master X-lite or any other similar road bike.

Sorry, didn't mean dual pivot, I meant the 'newer style' single pivots, i.e. 2000 ish (prob before) onwards. I have ultegra BR6000's , or whatever the 1st Ultegra 10 speed groupset was and they work great.

That said I can see the appeal of discs on crappy back lanes with the odd patch of gravel, pot holes, rubbish tarmac etc.

As PoopScoop said though (and also reading between the lines): Custom sized frame...general road riding mostyl in the UK...hmmmm probably discs for me.

BUT also what TINAS said!

I personally don't get the argument that disks are aesthetically inferior to calipers. I love the clean look and slender seat stays. I know they're just advertising, but the bike porn section at back of Rouler is full of stonking examples. The Factor o2 the other month was just beautiful.

IMHO caliper brakes for summer use, although I will concede that CF rims are arguably better used with discs

A well-designed disc-braked bike will have a slightly heavier, less supple fork and frame rear end than a well-designed caliper-braked bike, and the disc-braked bike may look chunkier too. By the time you include the additional weight of discs, and the additional complication of hydraulics (and I know that you can get hydraulic calipers and cable discs), it's caliper brakes for me

I've recently built up a new frame.  Chose discs because it's not just a summer bike and because decent rims are expensive, even the ones I bought from China.

Prior to this I'd bodged a disc fork onto my old frame to at least get some of the benefits and see how I felt about it.  It's much better IMO, and that's "only" with BB7s

oh, and who's hacked into flashy's account !?

I personally don’t get the argument that disks are aesthetically inferior to calipers

It's subjective, no right or wrong. Discs aren't ugly. There are just some styles of road bike that are lovely to look at as well as ride and discs would be all wrong on them, look at the bikes coming out now with a retro style lug-crowns and curved skinny blade, with discs. Wrong in so many ways imho, technically as well as aesthetically. Same fork and caliper brakes would be lovely and work much better.

As this is chat about a custom frame it's worth considering. Both can look great, just depends on what the custom element is for. Oversize HT, carbon fork, carbon rims? Discs.  Steel fork, 1 1/8" steerer, maybe some silver campag .. has to be rim brakes : )

Discs and lovely carbon rims. Its what I went for and haven't regretted it.

OP, don't know your riding history, but if you already have experience of riding road bikes on UK roads, in UK weather conditions, and don't feel a pressing need for better braking, and aren't wearing through rims every season, then why worry?

I tick most of the 'should need disc brakes' boxes. Ride through the year in all weathers on some truly crappy roads, but am still not willing to part with extra cash for a heavier bike with the absolute lottery (in my experience) of hoping you get a quiet set of disc brakes.

The noise I have experienced in wet conditions from various disc brake set ups is enough to put me off riding in the wet altogether on those bikes, give me some Swisstop BXP pads and slightly longer stopping distance any day...

Usual bollocks! Best summarised here:

<div class="bbp-reply-author">robgclarkson

discs here… why would chose something performs less well?

summer bike or not, discs are just better, this is a fact

1. Because it performs more than well enough.

2. They are heavier, and more expensive so, no.

As for bolt through axles...

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Sorry, didn’t mean dual pivot, I meant the ‘newer style’ single pivots, i.e. 2000 ish (prob before) onwards. I have ultegra BR6000’s , or whatever the 1st Ultegra 10 speed groupset was and they work great.</span>

I though that was 'dual pivot', single pivot is where both sides pivot directly from the brake bolt, anything recent'ish from shimano is dual pivot, campag have dual pivot front and single pivot rear as it saves a smidgen of weight. Mine are the super light ones that Planet-x and a few others sell which are single pivot with a roller cam to increase the power.

The latest caliper brakes are direct mount which is the same as dual pivot, but the pivots attach to the fork rather than having a back plate which bolts to the crown which makes them much stiffer.

As for looks, disk look a lot better in real life than they do in side on press shots. Especially the almost solid freeza dura ace ones, they really do make caliper brakes look a bit classic in comparison. Which is a compliment or insult depending on what you prefer.

As for weight, comments about taking a poo and laying off the Greg's aside.  There was an article not so long ago where a load of journos got invited to test the new specialized/McLaren venge in the wind tunnel and on a rolling course. One of the factoids was that an exposed brake cable is about the same time penalty as 400g! So if disks mean smoother rims and flat mount callipers pretty much solve their aero drag the small amount of weight must pay back severalfold.

With 25mm tyres it doesn't make much difference to the braking. Callipers are good enough for the maximum braking you can get out of those.

It's when you move to larger section tyres that the difference shows up. Then disks are better because you can use all the grip of the tyre to the max.

Discs also let you run wider tyres without calliper rubbing.

Discs and carbon wheels are heaven and calipers an carbon wheels are yuk.

If you end up running calipers then the new 7000/8000/9000 Shimano with bxp swisstop are excellent. Obviously discs offer overall better braking but I'm 50:50 currently.

Where have we seen these arguments before . Disc brakes on MTBs , Tubeless on MTBs Front suspension on MTBs , Full suspension on MTBs , 29inch wheels , LED vs HID lights , dropper posts , to name a few .

To be fair, v brakes are still pretty good in the dry, especially on big 29" wheels and compared like for like against 160mm xc rotors.

And you could make valid arguments against front suspension, dropper posts, tubeless and everything else you mentioned on road bikes so why disk brakes.

The point is that the things I mentioned have all become mainstream in spite of people saying that they were not needed , not better , heavier , more expensive or more complicated .

For me it's all about effort not braking distance. With discs I can one finger brake with very little effort allowing me to focus on the approaching corner in control. I didn't like the rim or mechanical disc on a steep descent towards a hairpin. Felt like to much focus went into stopping rather than cornering.

Neil, many of your examples have obvious benefits that overcome their drawbacks.

Road disc brakes, on a summer bike, don't.

IMO I don’t think anyone could argue that discs are not more efficient at braking than calipers - that has to be a given?

Its just that are calipers ‘better’[1] than discs on a summer road bike? Perhaps that really is just down to personal preference / opinion?

[1] look nicer, weigh less, perform adequately etc.....

These are all things that were said against the examples that I quoted but didn't stop them from taking over .

You haven’t  made a mistake. Where I think the industry has made a mistake is the fixation with carbon rims. I run a Hed jet 6/9 combination which has an alloy rim and carbon fairing. The braking on this wheelset with calipers and TRP aero v brakes on my Propel are brilliant. Wet or dry. Wet in the race today. I also run full carbon Giant aero rims on another wheelset  the Hed’s beat the carbon on every aspect.

Choose your wheels carefully, but calipwrs for me every time for a nice road bike.

If I really wanted stupid light carbon tub rims with no braking surface to save weight THEN I think discs make sense. Not aero sense, but some sense.

How long do your rims braking surface normally last? I know some people whos braking surfaces last years, another guy that needs a new rim every year, he would be better on discs!

Also if going hydro disc, try and get a feel of the STIs first, some people love them, some people hate them.