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Ah ok, misunderstood then.
Funny enough, there was only one rider with mudguards this morning. But we were all so utterly soaked, and our faces so covered in road water, that I don’t think the most full-coverage mudguards would have made a difference
I'd be more worried about grit and road crap getting in my eyes, especially as a contact lens wearer.
Sounds like trail_rat is one of those Special club members .. or maybe just a nobber.
Glad someone has explained what half wheeling actually is; its one of those terms the newbies often get wrong/mixed up. Theres lots of ways of discouraging people half wheeling intentionally - and lots of ways to explain to those doing it unintentionally.
Mudguards like not spitting or snotting over your shoulder is merely politeness and consideration to those riding behind you.
Sounds like mooman should not join a club.
Why not? He’s been a member of a good club for years, and gets along with his riding mates very well. Plus, he’s both hospitable to new riders and generous in his assessment of them.
Helmets are compulsory at my road club . A few too many mishaps in a short space of time and the rule was put in place. Personally I think its a good thing. I dont want to be the one trying to help someone whose injury could have been reduced significantly by wearing a helmet, and feel responsible for 'not being able to do anything to help' as the injury is way too severe.
I ride with a good group of guys , and different people are stronger on different days , or on different parts of the ride . I find it tricky to balance the effort on the front of the 15 -17mph group as judging the headwind effect of needing to pedal harder , but so much to drop anyone off the back. The good ride leaders do it effortlessly and it all flows along at a nice steady pace. Free for all on the hills , or last 400m to the cafe if there are limited seats though. All very good natured , and sometimes we do a flat out run on a rolling / undulating section of road which sometimes gets ( for us ) abit rapid.
His last post marked him as a me me me.
Group riding is far riskier than solo riding due to close quarters and you don't think clubs should insist on helmets.
Yeah call me a knobber if you insist but you do as risk assessment for a group ride that doesn't .then and stand up in court to defend a death that happened on a group ride while refering to your risk assessment that said nah helmet not needed
I no longer ride with a club due to too many people who think the rules don't apply to them.(no mudguards on winter rides , no signaling holes , no holding their line and yo-yoing pace - just makes for a crap ride .- the old club had a few "knobbers" as you call them..... we called them ride leaders who would point out your mistakes and the rides were much a. Safer and b. More enjoyable.
Freeforalls are neither safe nor enjoyable bit like the mid ranks at most sportives
trail_rat, By the look of your recent photo - I`d say your not a member of a road bike club more to do with the fact you look overweight and unfit than being upset someone doesnt follow rules you want them to.
I am pretty sure you know very little about riding with a road club, and even more sure you dont have the skills to do so safely - even if you have these rules you get upset by if someone doesnt stick to. I suggest you stick to plodding about on your mtb.
You stay classy mooman.
Gosh, this escalated quickly.
@moonman you clearly know nothing of TR.
🤡
@brumeep you clearly think I GAF too
Well the last series of posts is a good advert for the types of people you get in club's isn't it. No thanks.
I love cycling but hate "those" types of cyclists
When I have been on the front of group riides and have inadvertently upped the pace the person next to me simply tells me to slow down a bit. Seems to work just fine.
Yes, but that means you're not a half wheeler! The true half wheeler is oblivious to the dynamics of the group around them and any sort of advice, and is only intent on getting slightly in front of the person next to them...
you clearly care enough to comment though 😉
as a ride leader with my club, I am 'one of those people' who will point out overlapping or half wheeling or other aspects where needed and appropriate. Always in a positive way, but when riding with a group, the safety of the group requires good practice. In general people accept it, but I have had a few snarky ****ers which is always disappointing. Example was a guy who I mentioned he didn't give parked cars much room....having been doored once before myself (and it won't happen a second time) I just suggested why he might move out a bit - and got a mouthful in return.
Likewise helmets; sometimes things happen and even if it is/was their choice that wouldn't be any comfort in the event I'm the one holding your head together while we wait for the ambulance..... so I make it clear - no helmet and you aren't welcome in my group. Sorry, but.
The bugbear to me is riders who won't move up groups and instead go all alpha male on the fast social and slow inters that i usually lead. The point of group riding is to ride as a group, yes we will have a tear up on the hills and let the leash off for the last bit before the stop, but watching riders disappear into a headwind or up a niggly 3% drag frankly boils my piss. It's not the TdF and you're not in a breakaway, getting exposure for your sponsor. Harder now in the days of ubiquitous Garmins and pre-posted route plans, but I have been known to let them go and then throw in a detour, see if they can then find their way to the cafe on their own. Yes, I am a git but they bring it on themselves.
Right mooman has called tr out as a fat buffer. Someone else seems to think he is the real deal.
C'mon gents put your palmares where your mouths are.
Glad you had a good ride with your new club SR 👍.
Group riding is far riskier than solo riding due to close quarters and you don’t think clubs should insist on helmets.
Wearing a helmet should always be a matter of personal choice. I choose to wear one for 99% of rides. But it's not for a club or anyone else to make that decision for me.
Love to see a mooman-trailrat shootout, bring it on 😉
It’s up to people who run the club to set the rules they want. It is then up to each individual to decide if they want to join.
It’s up to people who run the club to set the rules they want.
This is true, but it doesn't mean all their rules are right.
P.s I've ridden on many club rides but never felt the need to actually join one. To many rules 😉
This forum sometimes.....
Someone gets slagged of for having an opposing opinion to the point where they are effectively labelled as too big and unfit to be allowed the privilege of even riding a bike let alone knowing what they are talking about?
Sheeesshhh....
I don't usually wear a helmet but the proportion of club rides that have a crash due in part to riders being too close, I'm happy to wear one in group rides and think it's a very reasonable stipulation (not sure it's formally required in my club but wouldn't be surprised). Organised events seem to think it's an insurance retirement which may be over defensiveness but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what am I going to do about that if so?
More fact on the whys of the rules.
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/clubs/article/20151103-membership-static-Club-insurance-Q-A-0
It's a few years since I met trail rat skinny get he was then and a very fast and competent rider. Somehow I doubt he has become a fat pootler since then
At my club, I'm a Ride Lead and Club Captain, so I'm one of those knobbers who 'insists on strict adherence to club rules', which are policies derived from the safety risk assessment, insurance requirements or just to promote the unity of the whole group. If you don't agree with these, or me or others calling them out, just don't join. Win win.
But these rules don't mean it's not an inclusive and supportive club, nor that me calling these out for safety considerations means I am deflecting from inclusiveness or supportiveness.
I miss the times when this was a thread about how fun it is riding in a bunch and meeting new friends in a club.
I like being in a club. If I wasn't in a club, I'd have had to do 60km on my jack in the rain and wind this morning. As it was, i had some other idiots to moan to about how crappy it was today, before ultimately concluding that it was still better than being sat on the sofa watching homes under the hammer 😉
@ Trail_Rat
Are there really rules in place at your road club(s) that state no overtaking on hills, epecially the nominated 'ride leader' on the day ?
And no allowances for a sprint, for a road sign / Cafe stop / End of ride car park?
I don't think I would ride with a club with stipulations like that . As a 'fast inters' ( thats the 15-17pace , sometimes 3 groups of 10 on a Sunday ) rider we occaisionly get 1 or 2 of the 'Fast ' (18-20mph av.) riders with us. if there is racing or a TT on that alot of the fast boys are attending.
Then its alot more common to push along and have a big effort on a hill , trying to keep the fast boys in sight , we always regroup at the top anyways .
On helmets. I guess everyone knows my views on them by now but if a club has "helmets only" in its rules then thats the rules. Obey them or don't join the club its really that simple. You may think the rule wrong and thats your choice. No one is forcing you to join that club.
Single-track mind.
Who mentioned any of that.
My gripe is with people who feel none of the insurance and risk assessment mandated group ride requirements apply to them.
None of that shite you have suggested I could give a flying **** about that's riding a bike.
Threads like this remind me why I've never enjoyed club riding.....too much bickering!
Ok, my mistake. . . . . sorry
Must have been someone else
not answering for TR, but in my club, hills and a sprint for the cafe / end of the ride are the bits where we actively encourage the group to have their head. Elsewhere we try and keep it together and as said, it tends to be the slight inclines / headwinds where the stronger and more powerful can without realising keep a pace that slower members can't. It happens, and as Ride Leader I'll ask them to keep a lid on it. Which most of the time works, but sometimes you get the alpha male types that want to keep showing off how strong they are, and I'll tactfully suggest they might consider moving up a group to one more suited to their pace, or sometimes allow them to ride away before pulling an unexpected turn.
But that's my leadership of fast social (22-24kph typical) or slow inters (24-26kph) groups. Our faster groups won't actively drop riders but there's less need to manage pace down, there's an expectation that people can keep up, and occasionally our fast (30+) group will run their ride as a proper 'rapides' ride with through and off and self sufficiency to be able to get yourself home if needed.
On proper hills, I also encourage the stronger riders to 'top and drop'.......rather than wait and get cold, when you reach the top turn around and descend to the back of the group and then ride back up again. It gives them chance to keep moving and also chat to riders they might not usually ride with.
some of the members were people I wanted to be aligned with so left.
Ooooh, you can't just leave it like that can you Jon, surely you have to spill the beanz?? Otherwise it's just like saying 'I know a secret - but I'm not telling you...'
LOL
Long time ago now and the people might not be involved. I'll pm you if you really want to know.
Actually thinking of not renewing next year, not much point (for me) outside of racing.
Most runs and training bashes around here are inclusive, so long as you’re safe you’re welcome.
I joined our newly formed local club early part of 2017, just after it started. Originally a group of mates who rode together and fancied getting more people involved for the town, and longer term plans for a youth academy.
The academy is still a year or so away, but less than 18 months on we are just shy of 400 members, one of whom is a well known national cycling figure, over 20% of members are female, we have a new national age group crit champion, have just run our first round of the local CX league, have people competing at CX, track and road from under 9s to vets, have rides on and off road, track, or indoor training sessions, every day if the week, and raised several thousand of pounds for a local kids cancer charity through numerous events.
This morning I led the short/slow Sunday social ride. 13 of us out on a what started as a cold drizzley morning when maybe some of us wouldn't have fancied going out on our own. Fantastic 2-3 hours riding, chatting and having coffee and cake with a fewmembers I'd not met before, discovering shared interests and friends inside and outside the club.
A couple of the ladies had joined the club after starting with Breeze rides, then riding with the social club rides I arrange separately, and then stepping up to the club. Incredible progression with the support of the club.
Finding the right club which will support your riding ambitions is amazing.
@morecashthandash, what you have just described is what appeals to me so much. I know I could probably join in other people’s club rides when I want, but actually joining the club gives me access to the encouragement that comes from a community of riders that collectively know A LOT more than I do.
I may be middle aged, but I like having targets and ambitions to work toward, and a good club can help me take myself more seriously, as well as keeping me somewhat accountable... even if only through peer pressure.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">Haze
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Most runs and training bashes around here are inclusive, so long as you’re safe you’re welcome.
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Pretty much like that around here too. The more popular social riding group is a collection of cyclists from lots of different clubs, along with cyclists not affiliated with clubs. Some guys from my club started a regular chaingang on a Saturday morning; once again, its open to anyone to join as long as they ride safely. We have club riders along with numerous ex and current Welsh champions, a commonwealth games silver medalist and former and current professional cyclists regularly joining.
I guess there is no convincing the dinner lady types here who like their silly petty rules. And thats why some clubs suit some - but not others.
Appols to Saxonrider for getting drawn in and contributing towards hijacking his thread.
Reading this with interest as thinking of trying my local club as I find anything over 90 min on the road solo as pretty boring.
What kind of fitness level is required to rock up at a club run? On a solo ride I average around 16.5 mph with around 80 foot of climbing per mile. I'm assuming that that's enough to keep up with the slower groups right?
16ish will see you in the 'inters' group , over 3 or 3 1/2hrs though , climbing wise, mostly less in the sunny southern flatlands.
You would be knocking on the door of the 'Fast' ride as the slipstream effect will help you 'sit on' at 20+ with alot less effort than a solo ride.
The biggest difference is energy deploymment . Mtb is alot more burst energy, road is way more constant output and in a group even more so. The boredom will disappear as you should be able to ride as a pair for long stretches of road and have a natter.
BTW most roadies do not mtb riding or racing seriously . They think its still at the 6-7pints the night before , a fry up and a mince around the local woods for 30 mins .
Our short Sunday social rides usually run at 13mph with 1000-1500 feet of climbing over 25 miles. I've led the rides with new newbies at 11-12mph though, strict no drop policy on social rides, we all had to start somewhere..
Steady interested run 13-15mph depending on terrain over 35-50 miles. Inters will do that at 16-18mph. The long fast group does what it says on the tin. Chaingang and training rides will show no mercy.
Once a month we have a "Step Up Sunday" - a shorter flatter ride to encourage new members, and then hillier or longer routes to encourage people to try something outside their comfort zone. Over the summer we've extended the distance of the steady rides till we had a group hitting 100 miles, but at a steady 12-13mph, we are on the edge of the Derbyshire Dales and Peak District so hillier rides are easy to run.
Seeing someone who started at the beginning of the year on a 20 mile beginners ride go on and hit 100 miles a few months later is fantastic, and it's a real motivation for others when they see what clubmates have achieved.
I’ll pm you if you really want to know.
I think you'll have to Jon, I'm bursting with curiosity!!!!!
TP Biker - we're a Surrey club, so no massive hills in our area although at the same time we can also do some reasonably hilly rides. Sort of 1% is our benchmark, eg: 500m in 50km; below that is considered a flatter route, above a hilly although on any given sunday it's up to the ride leaders to plan their routes, and of course it's also how you gain that height - as Surrey Hills riders know if all your climbs are from the south and all your descents go to the north it's a very different ride to v/v. We only make the hilly / not hilly distinction because we try to alternate, so if it's hilly one week, it'll be less hilly the next.
Typical ride speeds then are
Social - 12mph around 60km (yes, I know.....)
Fast Social - 13-14 maybe a bit further
both these are no drop / stop and frequent regroups although as said, we try and keep the group together and rolling as much as we can, and it's when stronger riders join these groups and constantly clip off the front, which makes the group pace rise until weaker riders lose touch that i get a bit cross (or, I sit on the front of the 'rest' and manage pace down again to the group pace and if the breakaway misses a turn - tough)
Inters - 15-16
Fast Inters -17-18
Fast - 19-20 (all around 80km +/-)
these are still no drop but rather than stopping to regroup so often, if the group does split on hills then the leaders will ride tempo until the stragglers get back on (leaving someone to mark at corners, etc)
I 've never heard of Veloflow, but it sounds like a rubbish name for a household cleaner.
Thanks folks. I must say that I had expected the speeds to be far higher given its a group ride.
Issue I probably now have is that I should really join the slower groups to learn the rules of group riding, but cycling at 12mph for 40 miles would literally send me to sleep.
Just a thought, road riding seems to work in a club format, ie chain gang groups, MTB not so much, a big group of bikers out on the hills can be a slow, frustrating experience.
IME obviously.