I have a couple of steep short hills, and a fairly long one within about a mile of where i live. Nice quiet country lanes. rode a short one yesterday and according to my Endomondo, its 1100m long, took 6 minutes, but the altitude thingy didn't work, but it's a fair steady, steep climb. Also nearby is a longer hill, approx 2.5km, with a steady climb. Any ideas how best to use them to increase my strength and fitness,i know the obvious answer is to ride up them..., but for example, do i do 2 steady runs up the short one, followed by a balls out 3rd run? Do the longer one in similar fashion? Haven't got a HR monitor.. yet. I'm not very fit, and i have weak skinny legs! More than capable of taking my pulse at the top of the hills.
I know that there's no substitute for riding off road, but it's not always possible to get off road in the time i sometimes have.
Any info/plans appreciated.
Ta.
not very technical but trying ride as much as you can standing up, that will do wonders for your leg strength, or it did for me when i had a commute with similar hills on the way home.
ride up sitting down you ll only get one pair of knees, keep a high cadence and over time you be able to use a higher gear and keep the same cadence wont happen overnight
not very technical but trying ride as much as you can standing up, that will do wonders for your leg strength, or it did for me when i had a commute with similar hills on the way home.
Not a good idea, sit and spin.
whats wrong with honking standing up?
what!? compared to say running, riding 1km or less standing up isn't going to do much damage to your knees, it'll build some muscle though.
Not a good idea, sit and spin.
Eh? Explain.
Mix it up, use the climbs in different ways, you need to work on climbing in the saddle and out of the saddle. Do low rev high gear and high rev low gear work.
The best way to climb is in the saddle, but on long climbs getting out of the saddle lets you stretch your legs. But the fastest way to get over a short sharp climb is often out of the saddle. Watch roadies, if you want to attack you get out of the saddle as you can deliver that bit more power a bit quicker, but you need to understand your body and how it works.
Do the hills.as reps. Try to keep same pace for each rep until you need to stop. Then do it again next day with an extra rep. Play some fast tunes to keep your cadence high and soon it will be easy. When you can do 15 to 20 mind then try going faster...
a few suggestions from the many possibilities.
1. time yourself from the bottom to 50 yards over the top. add 10%, do as many reps as you can in this time. Once a week on the short hill, once a week on the long.
2. on the long hill, ride hard for 20 secs, recover for 20 sec while still climbing and so on.
3. ride towards the bottom at a decent pace then attack the hill as hard as you can out of the saddle until you literally grind to a halt, ride back down, recover for a few minutes and repeat a 4 or 5 times.
Thanks for the suggestions... at least i now have an idea what to do instead of pootling up and down without a clue. i'll give some a try and see how i get on.
don simon - Member
Not a good idea, sit and spin.Eh? Explain.
Don't be so lazy and look yourself, google might help, cadence, knee injury
Don't be so lazy and look yourself, google might help, cadence, knee injury
that's sitting and low cadence not standing. FACE-PALM
what!? compared to say running, riding 1km or less standing up isn't going to do much damage to your knees, it'll build some muscle though.
Low cadence will stress the knee especially as he has weak legs anyway. Speed before power, as in learning to pedal properly and getting the legs used to the action before power training, which is generally done sitting at a low cadence.
Maybe people should look at some cycling sites instead of BSSTW?
Don't be so lazy and look yourself, google might help, cadence, knee injury
that's sitting and low cadence not standing. FACE-PALM
Both dip shit, sitting or standing it will still overload the joint.
my version on my commute was to ride up the hill in any fashion first untill that became easier then advance to standing up on bits untill you can ride sections stood up. now i`m onto giving it a bit more wellie. and considering bigger front chainring sizes.
definitly improving rapidly at present. 2 weeks holiday of beer,cake and no ridding set me back a fair way though. i was suprised.
for those sit and spin chaps surely a poorly set up bike will damage kness if sat down? as with all these things if you dont stop when things feel funny then you are asking for trouble.
Standing up means you put even more strain on your knees as you shift your whole weight to that leg. Sitting down you don't do that even if you peddle with the same cadence. When standing up you also tend to pull on your handle bar much more, creating even more stress on your knees.
Sit down and work (make sure you've got your seat post at the right height).
I do a fair bit of hill training on a local hill
Use the ride to the hill as a warm up, spin to win and keep in the saddle
1) ride up hill in easy'ish gear, high cadence, staying seated
2) ride up hill trying to maintain same cadence, higher gear, seated
3) as above, slightly higher gear
4) easy gear, unclip one foot and try riding as hard as you can pedalling with only one foot
5) swap legs, repeat above.
If you're feeling a bit tasty
6) Big gear, out the saddle sprints for 20 seconds, turn round, roll down for 10 seconds then perform again until you reach the top of the hill
Rest, repeat above for as long as you can. You should be going home ruined - use the ride home as a cool down
Maybe not the best for knee's but it works well for me
Enough sensible stuff above already so I'll keep mine short.
Short climbs: sometimes spin up these as normal (or roll a higher gear), other times I sprint (seated) .
Med climbs: usually spin along but sometimes attack if there are multiple brows or similar.
Long climbs: again, spinning does the trick. Might occasionally ramp up a gear or two and slog roll. Maybe the odd sprint.
Can't say I've looked into the technical/scientific reasoning enough as to what works best etc. I do have a strange liking for hills though.
Standing up means you put even more strain on your knees as you shift your whole weight to that leg. Sitting down you don't do that even if you peddle with the same cadence. When standing up you also tend to pull on your handle bar much more, creating even more stress on your knees.
The leg is designed for running, which creates a lot of impact on the knees, so shirley the damage/stress of cycling standing up is insignificant when you consider what the knee is ment to do?
Mix things up basically, do intervals and some sessions do high cadence seated and some do low cadence standing etc. Some recent studies (there's one discussed in the current Cycling Weekly) supports low cadence climbing as a very effective way of training.
Some good stuff in here, going to give this a try myself I think.
Not sure if there are any really big hills near enough to me though, will have to have a scout around. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing I want to try 25 miles from home 😕
Depending on your physiological make-up, hill running works wonders for stamina & strength. I was advised to ease into it to build up muscle & tendon strength & flexibility ... Knees took a while to get used to it but the results have been great. Climbs still hurt, but recovery rate is dramatically improved.
Standing up means you put even more strain on your knees as you shift your whole weight to that leg.
It also means you tend to straighten your leg sooner in the pedal stroke, rather than putting maximum force through a bent knee. Still try and keep the cadence up though.
By the way, do you ever walk up stairs? I really hope you don't, if you think stepping up with your weight on each leg alternately is more than your knees can cope with...
The leg is designed for running, which creates a lot of impact on the knees, so shirley the damage/stress of cycling standing up is insignificant when you consider what the knee is ment to do?
Imagine running and landing on your foot while your knee is bent. Perhaps not the best comparisson but the issue is that you're loading your knee joint with a lot of force at timings it is not necessarily used to unless you're gradually increased the force you put onto your knee, ligaments, muscles and whatnot.
I'm just speaking from experience of having shoddy knees and doing things very wrong in the beginning.
It also means you tend to straighten your leg sooner in the pedal stroke, rather than putting maximum force through a bent knee. Still try and keep the cadence up though.By the way, do you ever walk up stairs? I really hope you don't, if you think stepping up with your weight on each leg alternately is more than your knees can cope with...
Look mate, some people have weaker knees than others. Funnily enough, if I run up stairs my knee gives out. Perhaps you're blessed with youth or light weight or good knees, but if you don't, overdoing cycling up hill can seriously knack your knee up.
I would stay away from hills. You'll find it a lot less controversial and your brain cells will thank you for it.
on this thread, only iDave as far as I know gives advice for a living.
Matt - so because you have bad knees everyone should stick to what's suitable exercise for you?
what's your evidence that riding out of the saddle is bad for knees? have you passed on your knowledge to pro's
emsz - doesn't mean I'm right tho'
Ok we'll agree if you've got shoddy knees it might be a good idea to build up the knee muscle, but for people with normal knees it's fairly obvious that standing makes you fitter and faster, I've been forced in to singlespeed for the last week or so and it's forcing me to stand, i feel stronger for it already.shoddy knees and doing things very wrong in the beginning.
Ride up hill. Have a pint, talk bikes with some mates. Ride down hill. 'Nuff said.
+1 for singlespeeding. Best thing I ever did for my knees & leg strength.
Perhaps you're blessed with youth
No.
or light weight
Not especially.
or good knees
Again no.
I also have a long history of shoddy knees... for a while 7 or 8 years ago I thought my days on the hill might be over but MTB-ing helped rehabilitate them. I'm very much an out-of-the-saddle rider and in fact I've found that over the long run it helps keep them in good shape to ride that way as it gives better recruitment of the medialis muscle which keeps your kneecaps tracking properly.
Must be working as last week I ran the Bob Graham Round, which doesn't proves anything in particular, except that over-generalising from personal experience is probably a bad idea...
oh ffs I gave what I thought. Sue me.
had dodgy knees - trip to the quacks and physio , running on sand was the solution they gave me ...
started singlespeeding in 04
best thing i ever did - knees are bombproof now - could stand up and pedal all day if i wished really.
high cadence out of control pedaling squares would send more alarm bells for me in a beginners knees but ultimately a bit of both will help more than doing a million standing climbs and a million seated spinning climbs
Why did you have dodgy knees in the first place?
riding out of your saddle certainly increases your power i find, its very good for fitness - of course if you have dodgy knees its best avoiding, but in terms of getting up a hill quicker i find standing MAKES you pedal harder/faster climbing than if seated as you simply cannot stop but to put the power down....its helped my fitness, plenty of hills by me and this is how ive got to my current fitness level....
the words used by the psycho (physio) were "muscular imbalance" from purely cycling ..... i would do 200k a week to uni and back and no other exercise. I would get sore knees sitting but i could stand and pedal till my lungs could take no more with no pain-
so it was suggested i started running on sand to build up the muscle on the inside of my thighs and stop my knee being twisted. - singlespeeding/standing lots also helps this and i havnt really had to run much since..........could and probably is coincidental - but i seriously have concerns if standing up is breaking folks knees - like the old SS ****s your knees myth - yes if you do it wrong it might but its also cured alot of folk i knows knee pains !
dday - Member
Ride up hill. Have a pint, talk bikes with some mates. Ride down hill. 'Nuff said.I like that suggestion ....Pub 200 yards from top of one of hills!