@boombang That car wouldn’t have been overtaking me on the approach to a central island because I would be in the middle of the lane to prevent it.
Doesn’t stop the w*****s around here. I did exactly what you mentioned and a van driver still tried to get past - he started to dive in then realised he wasn’t going to make it past me without hitting the island, so swerved the other way and went round the island on entirely the wrong side of the road. Just got back the right side without hitting a car coming the other way. All because he couldn’t wait another 5-10 seconds or more to clear the island and the car coming the other way. It’s mind blowing how bad some of the driving is round here at the moment.
Watching the wobbly wheelers these days wandering about metres apart makes me sad…
We all have to start somewhere.
Lots of the same arguments going around, but reality is that it's always situational, was it good etiquette or not for that particular time, as with everywhere, i see a lot of road riding nowadays, it's gained popularity and most are just getting on with it, but you do get the odd one or two who defend their position when it would be better to single out, pull in, etc, etc to allow the faster vehicles to pass without having to be too aggressive.
It's the same with a lot of driver's, they will see a roadie(s) in the distance and the panic sets in, some know how to deal with this, some don't, the ones who are edging constantly are the ones who aren't focused on solid lines at tight bends, and the actual speed of the vehicles coming on the other side, ending up with horrific overtakes.
From my experience i just worry about that driver behind me, as i can do nothing about it as they are unseen to me, if i get nervous enough with the amount of time they are behind me i jump over and let them pass, had way too many experiences of that first driver being cautious and finally overtaking, then having the nutters that were stuck behind them taking their anger out on me with close passes, having been hit by a wing mirror (bar strike) from a car that was doing 60-70 i can vouch that it sounds like a shotgun going off next to you!
That’s one of the numerous issues with large groups: they don’t have the option of pulling over to let anyone pass. Once you decide to ride in an even remotely tight group you’ve basically signed up to that.
As an old roadie I am constantly amazed by how shit a large number of road cyclists are at actually riding along.
When I'm ride-leading on multi-day events, most of the first 2 days is taken up with trying to instil some discipline in riders.
I've seen 2-abreast as "left hand rider in the gutter, right hand rider on the centre markings". Half wheeling is very common as is trying to use a massive gear and constantly surging up the arse of the rider in front.
It never gets taught anymore. Riders don't want skills sessions they want to do training to power and Zwift. As a result, an awful lot of riders are absolutely dreadful at a simple 2-abreast club ride.
Equally though, driving with care and courtesy never got taught, it was always about "making progress" so it's not surprising that most drivers aren't capable of processing a 2-abreast group.
Incidentally does anyone know if there is a legal limit on the length/ number of a peloton on an open road? My lbs organizes a group ride from April through to October mid week and sometimes in the height of summer there are over 60 riders which as you can imagine makes quite a long train on the road and each time I’ve been on the ride there has been at least one situation of driver conflict, usually somebody overtaking and then realizing they aren’t going to make it and pulling into the middle of the group.
I have ridden a lot in Spain over the past 20 years. Appearing to hold up vehicles doesn't concern Spanish cyclists and clubs at all.I've seen them spread out across the road and force oncoming vehicles to stop. My local Spanish club actually have a motorcyclist out front with a siren.The only people I have heard moaning about their riding are the British ex pats !
Both groups obey Rule #1 and everyone’s day is that little bit better. Where’s the problem?
The problem is disagreement and/or ignorance about whether X or Y behaviours contravene Rule #1 and/or the Highway Code.
‘It wasn’t ME being the dick, HE was in the Middle Of The Road™!’
Etc...
The other problem is that people will be dicks regardless.
Incidentally does anyone know if there is a legal limit on the length/ number of a peloton on an open road
Not that I'm aware of, more than 12 or so and I get twitchy.
over 60 riders
With that many there would be a fair spread of ability, sensible move would be to split into maybe 3 groups and set off a few minutes apart...fast off first, then medium and slow last?
Incidentally does anyone know if there is a legal limit on the length/ number of a peloton on an open road? My lbs organizes a group ride from April through to October mid week and sometimes in the height of summer there are over 60 riders which as you can imagine makes quite a long train on the road and each time I’ve been on the ride there has been at least one situation of driver conflict, usually somebody overtaking and then realizing they aren’t going to make it and pulling into the middle of the group.
Not aware of a legal limit, but surely the practicalities of riding with a random mix of people of varying skills, experience and fitness make this basically unmanageable. Either cap the numbers or split into several smaller groups.
Not that I’m aware of, more than 12 or so and I get twitchy.
Our club tend to split groups into no more than 16 based on speed - I'd say that is too big but depends on how many ride captains there are to share the leading. I limit groups to 12 on my rides
With group rides limited to 6 when they return, it's a perfect time for clubs to drill some group riding skills into members.
more than 12 or so and I get twitchy
It’s more like three or four for me 😳
Every driver who has ever had a go at me has always said “I’m a cyclist too”
I just reply with "you should stick to cycling then as you are crap at driving"
As for taking up room, I only ride solo but in places where I feel it is not safe to overtake I will take up as much room as two cyclists but where it is safe to overtake I will take up room of one cyclist by positioning myself on the road accordingly. I wouldn't hold up traffic by staying two abreast just for the sake of it it moving to single file made it easier for all involved.
There is some gold here this is my favorite
On most roads it the becomes difficult for the overtaking car to give the outer rider 1.5m of space as you have taken up 4mtr of roadspace. If you include 1.12 of passing space
If it makes it difficult maybe it's not the right time to pass simple.
I always ride a doors width from the curb or the "primary position" and when an island approaches get in the middle to block cars from passing me. I couldn't care less if that means your late to drop timmy off at football, I just don't want to die.
slowoldman
Full MemberYes the Surrey Road interpretation above sums up good practice.
It does sum up good practice but I think in reality 3 does take a bit longer than 2, therefore the driver does need a bigger gap.
Personally I think that should be the rule anyway though, when overtaking cyclists you always go fully into the other lane.
Whenever anyone uses “I’m a/was a [whatever you happen to be doing]” to support their argument, it’s always garbage.
If that was aimed at me then I only opened with that comment as a weak attempt at humour based on what had been said before 🙂
If the roads are narrow they won’t be 3 abreast, its not really possible ( well it is but not on a normal ride unless you want to bump elbows like that cycling God up the thread)
I've seen them ride four abreast as well but two or three is more common. Is that safe riding on narrow roads?
OMG that sounds awful how do you cope!!
Thank you for your concern 😉 but it actually is a problem. RM likes to employ bullying managers(not the cyclists fault I know) who try to pile more work onto us in impossible to meet time scales and then refuse to pay overtime when we go over unless agreed at the start of the day. As a result, many posties are feeling some degree of stress while out on the rounds.
I get you have pressures, but if you’re a postie in the Dale’s, how do you cope with tractors, horses, sheep being moved on the lanes? Let alone all those impromptu emergencies-
Tractors and horses are usually easy to pass without a long delay and both will usually wave you past when safe to do so. Sheep being moved and emergencies don't actually happen all that often(at least not to me) but these things can't be helped.
I think what really gets to me is that there seems to be no consideration for other road users from these particular groups. They seem to completely ignore the fact that you are there trying to do a job and just seem intent on doing what they are doing and to hell with anyone else on the road.
Now, I don't advocate dangerous driving at all and try not to practice it but the fact remains that there are people out there who will resort to dangerous overtaking when faced with these situations. And big groups of riders should take some responsibility for the safety of all road users and if riding in large numbers they should create some space for people to safely pass. As I said earlier, tractor drivers and horse riders will usually show you that sort of consideration. Even the slow driving tourists will often pull over to let you pass(after a bit of aggresive tailgaiting and light flashing 🙂 ).
Anyway, I'm just a MTBer so naturaly I hate all roadies 🙂 Why is it, I always smile and say Hi to any other cyclists I meet but I rarely get a response from serious looking roadies?
Have a nice day!
Simple answer to that is, deliver whatever you can until its time to get back to the yard and whatever doesn't get delivered will still be there for tomorrow.
Simple answer to that is, deliver whatever you can until its time to get back to the yard and whatever doesn’t get delivered will still be there for tomorrow.
I wish it was, and it should be as simple as that. But, suffice to say. It isn't.
With that many there would be a fair spread of ability, sensible move would be to split into maybe 3 groups and set off a few minutes apart…fast off first, then medium and slow last?
The policy of the ride is it's all inclusive, which I think is the main reason for its popularity, the ride is at a steady 28kmh and no one is dropped (unlike some chain gang organized rides round here ...one in particular left two riders lying in the road after a crash last year).
My favourite 2 abreast moment came on a group ride a couple of years back, probably about a dozen of us side by side on a stretch with plenty of blind corners and a car behind constantly on the horn.
Proceeds to pull level, wind down the window and drive alongside telling us how dangerous we're being. Kid in the back seat by the way.
Anyway, I’m just a MTBer so naturaly I hate all roadies 🙂 Why is it, I always smile and say Hi to any other cyclists I meet but I rarely get a response from serious looking roadies?
Probably because you just overtook them on a blind bend because the post might be late?
Do you wave at other van drivers and expect them to wave back, too? 🙂
Probably because you just overtook them on a blind bend because the post might be late?
If you read my post properly you would know that is something I wouldn't do. I wouldn't be so frustrated by hold ups if I was happy to make dangerous driving moves.
How is it easier to pass a tractor than a group of cyclists?
As for getting waved past, I'll make my own decisions, if Im approaching a blind bend I don't care what you think the road is like ahead.
Proceeds to pull level, wind down the window and drive alongside telling us how dangerous we’re being. Kid in the back seat by the way.
One thing that continues to amazes me about some drivers is their lack of the rules of the road. The amount of time I have been told im "not allowed" to ride in the middle of a lane is unreal. I wish it was a generational thing but it seems this myth is still perpetuated
Do you wave at other van drivers and expect them to wave back, too? 🙂
Of course I do! I'm a very friendly person 🙂
If that was aimed at me then I only opened with that comment as a weak attempt at humour based on what had been said before 🙂
No, it was off the OPs comment that the driver "was a cyclist too".
Incidentally does anyone know if there is a legal limit on the length/ number of a peloton on an open road?
British Cycling and LVRC limit bunch sizes to 60 for road races - but you can multiple bunches for different categories and it gets interesting if one catches the other - usually stopping one group for a couple of minutes. Sportives don’t face the same restrictions as they’re not races, but it doesn’t stop wannabee sportivists pretending to ride like they are.
To get a race license these days in some regions you need to have participated in a course to give you the basic skills for bunch riding - something you learned in a club as a beginner about how to ride in pairs, through and off etc. These days, it’s Zwift and Strava and no real experience of riding in a bunch. I stopped riding with people I don’t know because often some were a danger to themselves and others, half-wheeling, dropping back when standing up, not looking around or signalling before moving.
The other difference is the volume of traffic and general intolerance / lack of awareness of drivers. It’s been refreshing since moving to the highlands from the south east - the only close passes I’ve had are usually from cars with English plates, even though they have an empty road in front of them.
As for getting waved past, I’ll make my own decisions, if Im approaching a blind bend I don’t care what you think the road is like ahead.
Quite. I had an impolite exchange once with someone who’d been waving me through on a series of blind bends and then, when he eventually pulled into a gravelled area alongside the road, shouted at me to tell me I was a useless driver—despite there having been one or two vehicles which did appear around those bends he was waving me through 🤦🏻♂️
I’ve seen them ride four abreast as well but two or three is more common. Is that safe riding on narrow roads?
Bollocks you have, 4 abreast on a narrow road, my arse. Maybe you are just too stupid to realise that the riders off set their position a little for safety.
anagallis_arvensis
Full MemberBollocks you have
Well spotted there Yoda!
I'm reluctant to go on club runs with my club because the standard of group riding and general courtesy to other road users is absolutely abysmal. I say that as someone who routinely takes primary, claims my space and generally keeps myself safe so I'm not afraid of holding up drivers where necessary. I actually stopped a club run once, did a lot of swearing at some riders and flounced because I was at the back and could see what an absolute bunch of **** they were being.
... dropping back when standing up,
My god, that's annoying too. Like a brief stall of the bike, just long enough for you to nearly smack into a back wheel.
Now, I don’t advocate dangerous driving at all and try not to practice it but the fact remains that there are people out there who will resort to dangerous overtaking when faced with these situations.
"Try" would suggest that you are not always successful.
@hexhamstu never say never, I have made bad judgements in the past. Who hasn't? Usually when I've been under some form of stress and not thinking calmly. Thankfully no one has been hurt and I hope I've learned from it.
RoterStern Free Member
The policy of the ride is it’s all inclusive, which I think is the main reason for its popularity, the ride is at a steady 28kmh and no one is dropped (unlike some chain gang organized rides round here …one in particular left two riders lying in the road after a crash last year).
That's not a great reason. Fast and medium groups go at an agreed pace and try and work for all, within reason. Slow group is "no drop" so everyone has a nice time and finds their place. If you choose a group that's too fast for you you've always got the safety net of the slow group.
I did exactly what you mentioned and a van driver still tried to get past – he started to dive in then realised he wasn’t going to make it past me without hitting the island, so swerved the other way and went round the island on entirely the wrong side of the road.
I've had the same. It hasn't stopped me taking a primary position to prevent overtaking where I deem it unsafe to do so.
I also agree that Rule #1 solves most issues. Where I'm clearly causing an issue for following traffic such as on a long stretch of narrow road, many bends, poor nightlines, I will pull in when I can to allow vehicles past.
Personally I think that should be the rule anyway though, when overtaking cyclists you always go fully into the other lane.
I agree, it's what I do when driving anyway.
Nay.
Used to but way too many punishment passes. Its not worth it.
Will go two abreast on a quite lane with no traffic about, but as soon as im aware of a vehicle its back into single file.
I assume the driver was doing something really important to be breaking lockdown....
Yup, I'll quite happily ride two abreast and in fact when I'm with Mrs B I ride behind and outboard of her to protect her from cars behind us.
I'll move in if it's safe to do so but I expect cars to pick a safe overtake and carry it out without being a dick.
Basically, the section of road that I happen to be on at the time is my section of road. It's up to cars to pass me safely when they get the opportunity. They don't have a monopoly on road use.
Will go two abreast on a quite lane with no traffic about, but as soon as im aware of a vehicle its back into single file.
Don't forget to doff your cap as he passes 😉
Will ride two a breast when I deem it the safest action for myself, the person I'm cycling with (often my kids) and the traffic around me (to try to prevent dangerous overtakes on bends ect).
Like said above, it often pisses folk off so will try to avoid busy roads and pull-in every so often as required on narrower roads.
It's trendy these days to demonise "cyclists" so I try not to give "drivers" any extra reasons to pick fault with my riding. I try to be courteous, sit in line at traffic lights, don't ride up the inside of traffic, indicate at junctions etc, thank good driving and generally try to smile and be happy.
I try not to p*ss car drivers off and if it annoys them, then I'll try and avoid conflict. Dopesnt matter who is right or wrong. It wont mean much in a hospital bed.
However, I dont ride a road bike and will very rarely be in a line of bikes together - usually just me and someone else. If I were in a serious club ride, then I'm not sure at the moment.
the ride is at a steady 28kmh and no one is dropped
28kmph seems quite quick to me, 25kmph is my general hacking along pace. Maybe it's very flat where you are.
