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Going slower and getting beaten about on a HT is not the same as going much faster on a FS. Definitely not. And I speak from experience.
Makes all the trails really easy
The point is to ride then faster Yeti. Don't blame the bike if you don't know what to do with it 🙂
what I like about hardtails is that to me, they feel more 'predictable', that's the key part about them IMHO, because of this, I feel strangely more confident
Actually you have a point here. A sus fork on a HT is enough to keep my vision clear while leg/brain-controlled damping is doing all the work, grip feels more predictable. On smoother, twistier trails, my HT is just so responsive to body-English and pedal kicks, it inspires confidence and is addictive.
Where the FS really excels is on long, fast, rough, grip-challenging descents, where on a HT my legs tire and cant keep up with the trail, and I get that desperate feeling of being bounced off. FS is also faster on rough flats because I can sit and better maintain pedaling effort.
Horses (bikes) for courses.
For me, FS excels whenever it's rocky. You can go fast enough to enjoy the twists and turns, even if it's rocky, instead of being battered.
FS can also be better on rocky climbs. When I had a HT there were plenty of loose rocky bits I could clear on the FS but not on the HT.
FS are faster, make you a better rider
No you're still the same rider.
Practice, makes you a better rider not the bike.
even though obvious troll is obvious, i must say... successful troll is successful!
good work squire!
@Jon Rambo
What do u think of people who prefer riding hardtails? Me personally think they cant ride fast enough to appreciate a full suss or perhaps are'nt riding super tech trails, but this is just my opinion, i prefer a full suss, more comfortable and i feel i can do more damage to the trail, proper gnar!
Me personally think people who ride full suss have cr@p skills so can't handle a hardtail or perhaps are riding trails that they can't do without suss assistance, but this is just my opinion, i prefer a hardtail, more skill and ability required which makes me a better rider
Or maybe that's all lies.
Either way, both opinions are stupid and irrelevant.
such an obvious troll, didn't think anyone would be dumb enough to reply!
oh wait i forgot where i was...
It's Friday - troll knows his thread would not get attention on another day of the week.
But who is it?
could it be? [img] 
[/img]
a decent suspension seatpost on a hardtail will stop you getting beaten up by the trail.
then the only issue is to get a frame where it has some compliance in the rear stays so it doesn't buck you around too much. Good steel maybe.
The OnOne ti456 is suppossed to have a rear end like this.
My flux is a nicer rider than the HT and climbs better, but probably wasn't worth the cost differential - my satmap was a better buy.
maintenance on the flux is only a little more than the HT though - bushings rule 🙂
a decent suspension seatpost on a hardtail will stop you getting beaten up by the trail.
Only if you are sat in the saddle like a sack of spuds.
Only if you are sat in the saddle like a sack of spuds.
No-one sits when free-wheeling whether they are riding a FS or HT, do they?
TurnerGuy's point is that by sitting more, you can better maintain pedaling effort because your feet are not holding you up - the reason why short-travel FS can be faster and less tiring than a lighter HT. But a good suspension seat post could also help with this.
Did a quick loop of Whites a couple of weeks ago got to the head of the last section (Darkside) spot a couple of “Free-Gnarrists” having a chat; Full shinnies, Spanky helmets, one in a pressure suit (FFS) both astride £2-3K ~6” bouncers so I figure as I’m only on a gentle pootle on my 85mm Forked XC HT I’ll let them go first surely I wouldn’t be able to keep up with them?Gave them 30 seconds or so, then caught the tail man inside of about 15 seconds, OK it’s the slightly pedally, slightly upwards incline bit at the start, He’ll soon rip away from me… Nah I was stuck behind this chuffing Mary the whole way down, the only feature on his bike he seemed familiar with was the brakes, Zero talent, should have bought a HT and learned to ride that first….
I have nothing against Bouncers, the advantages are pretty clear, but I really don’t think anyone absolutely Needs one for plain old trail riding, I’ve owned DH bikes and I think they make sense for their intended Purpose, I’ve owned a couple of 6” “all rounders” and while I enjoyed them I’m actually happier now on my far simpler HT…
Personally, I flow and refuse to use brakes. Whilst carrying 15 litres of homebrew on my head.
Jon Rambo = Swampthing from yesteryear Classifieds fame. or a strange coincidence!
Only if you are sat in the saddle like a sack of spuds
and the suspension seatposts you have tried are??
As buzz says your pedalling stroke is not now interrupted by the saddle kicking you in the arse all the time, so you can maintain spinning.
The only problem is, if you use a telescopic post, you need to have your saddle fairly centrally positioned so your weight is directed down the post and not across it.
I don't know about hard tails but I'm sporting an enormous hard on right now AM I RIGHT GUYS?
Hard tails ,soft tails ..whatever 🙄
The thing to have now is...
[url= http://www.gizmag.com/roundtail-bike-replaces-rear-triangle-with-rings/18388/ ]Round tail[/url] 🙂
I always seem to ride at roughly the same pace whether I'm on a hardtail, fs or ss, bike doesn't change what speed I ride at.
Kev
I'm awaiting a new FS frame so they obviously must rule
Correct answer is both right?
Ride HT for a bit, think wow this is great, so pure, I'm free, shall I clean it, shall I f...
Then I get on the FS, think wow this is great, so comfy, so fast, this is literally the fastets I've ever ridden, screw you luddities, shall I clean it, best do I spose.
Repeat.
phil.w - Member
cookeaa - just wondering if you were racing yourself on that lap do you think you could do it quicker on a hardtail or fullsuss (pick any fullsus you like).
Actually an interesting spin off question you pose there...
Using Whites as the basic Trail-warriors benchmark is't a bad idea it's a good short loop with a mixture of terrain and trail types...
I think you can loose a good chunk of time and energy on the climb if you've got an over-slack proper mare of a bike (HT or FS) to climb on, a bit of controlled rear bounce might help with climbing traction at the start, but it smooths out later and I think overall a HT will get up the climb slightly faster, and you probably don't need more than about 4-5" of travel on a fork for the descents and there's nothing to really buck you about too much if you are on a HT or shorter travel FS just comes down to holding that stress position...
A sensible 4" forked HT is perfectly adequate, but i think you would be marginally quicker on the down section on a suitably equiped "shorter travel" FS, say a Crush or a Yeti 4x maybe a Meta 4.
6"+ really is overkill for what is a pretty tame loop, not sure even the default Orange 5 is really necessary but it would cetainly do the job in comfort...
Having said all of that it's not just a case of "What bike is bestest" Available funds and maintenance time do actually play a big part as well, and there the HT wins hands down, I might be 10 minutes faster on a fancy bollocks FS, but I'd spend less time riding overall, as I'd have to spend alot longer in the garrage...
Thus HT wins for me...
I like FS,I've got 3-short/med & longish travel - they're great,
& 3 h/tails,one of which is ss & rigid -they're great
& a rigid s/s 29er - it's great
Wish someone had told me you can only have one type before I started having fun on all of them.... 8)
Full suss makes a real difference over your standard 26" hardtail. It allows you to roll over stuff much better. I still stand by this.
I am very disappointed that no one has yet pointed out that the next evolutionary step is bigger (by which i mean 29er) wheels! This allows you back on to a simple hard tail but still lets you keep pace with or indeed pass 26er full suss XC bikes.
As for the muppets on here who reckon that riding difficult trails requires a full susser thats just rubbish! You can ride any trail on any bike. It may be slower and it may not be as comfortable but you can do it - providing you are not including cliff jumps in the trail set.
Last time, I rode W2 on my HT. The main thing I noticed was more vibration through the hands and feet, which tired me out quicker and made me back off the speed on descents somewhat. I put this down to the style of trail armouring they used there.
But a good suspension seat post could also help with this
Yeah but whilst your seat would be suspended the pedals would be moving up and down with the bumps which would have made pedalling rather difficult I'd have thought...?
Using Whites as the basic Trail-warriors benchmark is't a bad idea it's a good short loop with a mixture of terrain and trail types.
Noo.. surely not. No proper big rocky sections on White's is there?
I'm proper confused. So i ride a full sus which makes me gnarr!! But I also use SPD's which accroding to another troll means I'm ghey!
Can I just go out an ride my bike a not worry about all this crap
No proper big rocky sections on White's is there?
I recall a few bigger rocks on the "black" section and also some near the end. It's more that there's quite a lot of small rocks used in the armouring, compared with the smoother Llandegla/Brechfa "kitty-litter" style surface.
Afan is fairly typical of the purpose-built trails I've ridden.
which would have made pedalling rather difficult I'd have thought...?
nope - it is the saddle kicking you in the arse that is 99% of the problem - and the post stops that.
I am comparing my steel 100mm HT with USE XCR to my dw flux - the flux is super nice but the steel HT with post gives a large percentage of the ride benefits, although the flux climbs better.
In fact the XCR probably gives better small bump response as it reacts very quickly and doesn't have the sticky RP23 shock mount to force to move, which is why I run a needle bearing shock mount instead of the usual fox du bushings.
[i]Wish someone had told me you can only have one type before I started having fun on all of them.[/i]
You may have fun, but you must argue about which is the best. It is the way of the STWer.
😕
Yes, but a seatpost on gives you the binifit of suspension, the bike/your feet still have to deal with the hardtail.
I've ridden both, mainly hardtails, hardtails are slower, they just are, my gut feeling and the laws of physics are in agreement on this fact. That's not to say I'm slower on the HT than any one in the group on a FS. At the Swinley ride 2 people commented in my group commented that
a) I was "pretty nippy" (on my SS HT, him following on FS)
b) a susser would be faster (he was on a HT)
It's mostly the rider, but the bike makes a difference. I wouldn't have said the 2 guys on sussers in our group were worse or better riders just because I could keep up on my bike.
I'm proper confused. So i ride a full sus which makes me gnarr!! But I also use SPD's which accroding to another troll means I'm ghey!
One and the same troll I reckon.
Can I just go out an ride my bike a not worry about all this crap
noobs 🙄
I recall a few bigger rocks
A few rocks isn't the issue. FS territory is rock gardens.
it is the saddle kicking you in the arse that is 99% of the problem
It wasn't when I rode HT!
At Swinley, actual suspension is irrelevant. However geometry is pretty important for speed, I reckon.
I thought Rambo was meant to be well'ard but he poncey's around on a full susser 😥
Why do the poors on their HTs feel the need to justify their decision? It's the same as those people who constantly need to justify why they drive a Passat and tell everyone how much better it is than more expensive German cars. If they had the money they would be riding a decent FS and driving a BMW almost without exception.
randomjeremy
a) I want your user name
b) true
"Why do the poors on their HTs feel the need to justify their decision?"
Very snobby, classist attitude - yuk. I'd own expensive bikes, but I can't justify the very marginal benefit when there are more important demands on my wallet. And it overlooks the folks riding expensive custom HT frames.
I've never met a Passat Driver with BMW envy, interesting idea though...
Normally it's the otherway they feel the need to justify having spanked and extrat 2K for a VW badge and uncomfortable seats, when the equivalent Skoda or Seat would have done just as well, more like Rigid, SS, Air9 riders who know they'd be better off with gears and a 4" fork really, but like the looks of it without...
FS Evangelists are more often like Audi Drivers, they can only go fast in a straight line and can't take a corner, and will carve you up given half a chance. The 4WD/ 6" tallent compensation is all about "optimal grip and traction" apparently that and they like to keep their machine super clean...
FS Evangelists are more often like Audi Drivers, they can only go fast in a straight line and can't take a corner
Are you having a laugh?
I couldn't even count the number of people i shoot past on my chameleon riding full suss at trail centres. Unless your doing full on downhill or freeride they are for g@ys only..
Ok, thanks guys for the interesting replys, its good to see so many of u with lots of confidence! Sounds like u guys know how to ride hardtails properly! Is there more skill involved?! Nah! I don't think so, it just makes it a bit harsher, surely u can appreciate that in the long run hardtail frames crack, because of the stress there under, its just common sense really, so a full suss is more fun and in the long run, costs less, someone mentioned spds or flats, i certainly think theres more skill involved with flats but then thats my opinion, anyway, does it matter? Nah, we're all lovers of two wheels, lets celebrate these good times!! 😆
FS Evangelists are more often like Audi Drivers, they can only go fast in a straight line and can't take a corner
Are you having a laugh?
Vag group engineering is way ahead or Porche in the "can we stick the engine somewhere really silly" stakes. I mean in front of the front axel, not in line with, or behind.
Someone once told me their new golf GTI handled just like a go-kart, I asked him where he'd driven a 2 ton front engined, front wheel drive go cart, he took the point.
Is there more skill involved?! Nah! I don't think so, it just makes it a bit harsher, surely u can appreciate that in the long run hardtail frames crack, because of the stress there under, its just common sense really
I used to ride a lot of dh on both hardtail and full bounce and you can learn a lot from both types. Most people I see on full bouncers have it for comfort but also because they're lazy riders and use the suspension as an excuse to avoid picking out riding lines. Using a hardtail made me to choose the smoothest lines, pop off roots and stones etc and I think made me a better rider. Your statement about stresses on frames can happen to any bike but it comes down to the way it's ridden
personally i love both ht and full sus.at the moment have an anthem x2 which i have nothing but praise for (it has definitely helped me out when it could have chucked me off) would love to get a ht at some point also though (something rigid forked,steel,with gears and discs 😀 would run it over winter.
[url= http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Seasonaires-episode-5-2010.html ]If only I could ride my full-suss like this guy rides a hardtail...[/url]
Its not about the bike.