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When are those crusty *-wits going to call it a day? FFS?!! The *ing idiots are presently bringing manchesters traffic to a standstill. Which I'm sure is endearing cyclists to everyone's hearts. ****ing clowns!
Capitalist scum.
"get 'im!"
What's going on?
I thought manchester's traffic was already at a standstill?
Wasn't that kind of the point?
Are you sure it's reclaim the streets and not critical mass? Quite different you see.
Well according to these half-wits, the way to promote cycling is to cycle, en masse, really slowly through the city streets. Stopping the traffic. Always on a Friday when people are trying to get home from work. A charm offensive, it isn't
Oh dear princess. It sounds like your shit has been properly gripped. 😀
does binners drive a bus and hail from bristol?
Yeah, that's Critical Mass. Not heard from Reclaim the Streets for yonks.
Instead of whining why not get on your bike and join them?
APF
If it was reclaim the streets they'd be off their tits on acid and pills jumping up and down to ear bleeding techno. Well, that's what a mate of mine alleged.
If it was reclaim the streets they'd be off their tits on acid and pills jumping up and down to ear bleeding techno. Well, that's what a mate of mine alleged.
Thats what it was like when I was a kid. They did not see the irony of the fact that the sound system was on the back of a transit van but I appreciated the party in the middle of Bev Rd in 'Ull.
I think the whole thing was set up by the local off licence as they stopped outside there for ages and he must have made a fortune.
Yeah, that's Critical Mass. Not heard from Reclaim the Streets for yonks.
Theyre still around APF, just not in the same guise. I remember watching them 'do' a tube carriage. One minute normal train, next minute curtains, a bookcase, a standard lamp, pictures, a violinist and someone in a tux handing out vol au vents!
Saw Critical Mass in Sheffield tonight. Bellends.
CM should be a superb movement for all cyclists.
Sadly, it's been 'adopted' by the usual agit-prop, 'sticking it to the man, man' angry mob of muppets. As such, it does more[i] against [/i] generating good will towards cyclists than for it.
Sad, really, as the idea of getting to a point of 'critical mass', and therefore acceptance and understanding of cyclist, is a Good Thing.
Instead of whining why not get on your bike and join them?
was on my bike trying to get through London last night tryimg to get to the station. except this lot were in the ****ing way. they didn't endear themselves to a fellow cyclist never mind anyone else.
reclaim the streets? for what? mobile parties or getting somewhere?
reclaim the streets? for what? mobile parties or getting somewhere?
For communities rather than cars. Is it really so hard to understand?
Perhaps it is.
Edit: flashy, if you wanted to do something with critical mass that met your opinions I've no doubt you'd find existing members who'd agree and support you. Need to be a big man and actually do it though, rather than just throbbing away on the Internet.
The whole point of being an agitator is to agitate. Looks like Binners has been thoroughly agitated. 🙂
But yeah, it's a bloody nuisance.
If you ever look at photos or movies of city centres in the early 1900s, one thing that stands out is the way all traffic simply shares. Bicycles, horses, cars, trams, women with prams, and pedestrians comingling and no vehicle moving faster than a horse. One clip even shows people meeting halfway and stopping for a chat as the traffic flows around them.
That can only happen if speeds are reduced to non-fatal impact levels.
+1 CFH
I think critical mass as it is is counterproductive as it's too easy to see the crusties who attend as wierd, different, nutters which then makes it easy to write off their message.
The natural critical mass that's happening as more 'normal' people are getting on their bikes is what is actually changing perceptions.
Yossarin, I do do something about it. I'm part of
The natural critical mass that's happening as more 'normal' people are getting on their bikes [which] is what is actually changing perceptions.
I think critical mass as it is is counterproductive as it's too easy to see the crusties who attend as wierd, different, nutters which then makes it easy to write off their message.
Why is that clubber? The answer is simple. Not enough 'normal' people actually get off their arses to do something. As per usual, it's expected that someone else will take responsibility. Like or loathe CM, they are out there doing what they think is right, which is more than can be said for the rest of you.
That's right, it actually is YOUR FAULT 🙂
Bollocks flashy, you prefer hiding away on the internet, we all know it.
What exactly do you do that gives you the right to slate CM? do you organise anything? Do you lobby anyone? Do you look after anyone else's interests but your own? If the answer is yes, where is the proof?
What do I do? I have an opinion. See above. I need do no more to be able to 'slate' Critical Mass. Now, you may disagree with that opinion, and that's fine too.
For communities rather than cars. Is it really so hard to understand?
No, I understand.
But if its a community of crusty wasters - which is what it looked like in London - then I'm out.
I've been on cm, seen the reaction and decided that it's counterproductive. as it goes I think it's fundamentally so regardless of who attends.
As I said, getting people cycling is what's making the difference and I'm pretty content with the number of people whose eyes I've opened up to that idea and got them doing it, thanks 😉
What do I do? I have an opinion. See above. I need do no more to be able to 'slate' Critical Mass. Now, you may disagree with that opinion, and that's fine too.
Yep, thought as much.
+1 clubber. Exactly my thoughts and experience.
i went on this one and enjoyed it.
[url= http://changents.com/erland/videos-pictures/actions/critical-mass-nov-2006 ]Sydney Harbour Bridge 2006[/url]
My daughter got hit by one of the participants in London a few years ago
She was half way across a zebra crossing at the time
12 stitches to the resulting leg wound, the dick head that knocked her to the floor [along with the rest] didn't even bother stopping
EDIT: my opinion of them is somewhat formed by the above incident but I do think it does absolutely diddly squat to further the cause of cycling and a large proportion of those attending are just there to say "hey, look how feral we are, please don't mention to the boss though or it may impact on my career prospects"
She should have been in an SUV. Nice and safe in there.
Sorry to hear about your daughter, but what exactly is your point? Some CM participants from years ago were nob heads? No sh*t Sherlock.
APF
I liked Reclaim the Streets...no sure trashing cars that got caught up in it was all that bright, loved chucking rotten fruit and veg at the old bill outside Birmingham New Street though.
Followed by a free party in the Q-club, happy days,
Build skateparks not car parks!
Seems like another good concept hijacked by the left, needlessly causing conflict because they can. This will not endear cycling to anyone.
Seems like another good concept hijacked by the left
They seem more like right wing bullies to me 🙂
Well if it's p'ing off other cyclists, what hope with car drivers?
OK how about turning CM on its head?
Nominate a day and get all people who commute by bike (well, as many as possible) to drive that day (since apparently car ownership amongst cyclists at 83% is higher than the population as a whole), with a big sign in their back window saying "I usually cycle to work" or similar. Get the times, guardian, sustrans, CTc etc behind it and it might just make the point about how bad traffic would be if people didn't cycle.
What about a critical manners ride?
We need a proper cycle network, Edinburgh spent a fortune on a parliament building that looks like shit and a trams network 😯 😆 .
It's just a pity that more people aren't out demanding change!
+1 CFH and Clubber.
Doing something like that is in principle a good idea. The reality is that the willfully disruptive attitude of many just angers people - noncyclists and other cyclists alike - and is counterproductive.
Shame really.
We already have a proper cycle network. It's really handy because it goes from most folks houses into and out of town and even from town to town. There are guidelines and laws for using it and even bits where special facilities have been put in to avoid accidents at junctions and where pedestrians might want to cross. The surface is hard-wearing and tends not to gum up all the gears and stuff on your bike. In busier spots it's lit in the evenings so you can see if there any surface imperfections you might want to avoid. It's called "The Road"kaesae - Member
We need a proper cycle network,
What we need to do is get more people using "The Road" for cycling.
See Leicester for an example of how to do it right:
http://yeahyeahyeahyeah-yeah.blogspot.com/2011/03/leicester-critical-mass-leicester.html
Concidentally Leicester's also one of the few CM rides where the organisers are prepared to be identified, set rules, plan a route, etc. Most CM's don't do this because they could (in theory) be classed as an illegal demonstration.
Liverpool has one every second friday of the month, 18.00 hrs at the chinese arch.
Se eyou all there.
What we need to do is get more people using "The Road" for cycling.
I think this is a valid point of view, but realisitically, the countries with the highest levels of cycling have all invested massively in infrastructure, rather than trying to get people to be "vehicular cyclists" on the existing road network.
The problem I have with separate cycle facilities is that we can't, realistically, replicate the UK road network. If we segregate bikes from cars in towns (say) then drivers of other vehicles will be even less familiar with/know how to interact with bikes when they do come across them. The Netherlands is often held up as an example of a "good" cycling country. Go into the [i]centre [/i]of Amsterdam and the number of segregated facilities is minimal.
so many roads in cities are double laned going both ways, just take one lane out and make it a cycle lane, so bikes have their own lane and other traffic its own lane, with on street limited parking in the cycle lane part, for loading and unloading.
You could allow some other traffic in it too though - maybe buses? Then you could call it a bus lane.project - Member
so many roads in cities are double laned going both ways, just take one lane out and make it a cycle lane, so bikes have their own lane and other traffic its own lane, with on street limited parking in the cycle lane part, for loading and unloading.
we can't, realistically, replicate the UK road network.
We do rework the UK road network, constantly and incrementally. If there was a statutory requirement to install segregated cycling facilities along trunk roads every time they were resurfaced or reworked, within 20 years we'd have the bones of a decent cycling network.
See my point above. There are rural roads which are still single lane for cars. In which century would you envisage a replicated/segregated cycle network?Mr Agreeable - Member
We do rework the UK road network, constantly and incrementally. If there was a statutory requirement to install segregated cycling facilities along trunk roads every time they were resurfaced or reworked, within 20 years we'd have the bones of a decent cycling network.
If we segregate bikes from cars in towns (say) then drivers of other vehicles will be even less familiar with/know how to interact with bikes when they do come across them.
Say at the moment about one in 50 drivers also cycles regularly. I realise this varies a lot and in some places it's already more than that, but for most of the country, 2% of journeys are made by bike.
That means that every time you venture out on the roads, you've got a high chance of engaging with people who don't understand how much room to give you, don't realise that overtaking you and immediately turning left is stupid, and all the other idiotic forms of behaviour that make cycling unpleasant.
If 1 in 10 people cycled , or 1 in 4 as in some parts of the Netherlands, then that'd mean much better awareness of how cyclists travel and how to behave around them. You do still get bad drivers in the Netherlands, but the number of road casualty figures compared to somewhere like the UK speak volumes.
.So - the only drivers that know how to drive where cyclists are present are also cyclists?Mr Agreeable - Member
Say at the moment about one in 50 drivers also cycles regularly. I relaise this varies a lot and in some places it's already more than that, but for most of the country 2%, of journeys are made by bike.That means that every time you venture out on the roads, you've got a high chance of engaging with people who don't understand how much room to give you, don't realise that overtaking you and immediately turning left is stupid, and all the other idiotic forms of behaviour that make cycling unpleasant
Netherlands, but the number of road casualty figures compared to somewhere like the UK speak volumes.
IIRC the road deaths in the Netherlands are pretty much on par with those in the UK
In which century would you envisage a replicated/segregated cycle network?
You're suggesting that proponents of segregation want to keep bikes off the road completely. This might be true of one or two with a particularly extreme position, but the majority (including me) would be happy with just more choice of traffic-free routes.
IIRC the road deaths in the Netherlands are pretty much on par with those in the UK
For pedestrians and cyclists?
For pedestrians and cyclists?
a death is a death TBH - I don't really see what difference it makes what they were driving/riding
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/11/830
Cool, I'll just drive everywhere, spend half my life sat in a stationary queue of traffic, and die of heart disease then.
http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/europe/coronary-heart-disease-cause-of-death
You do what you want Mr A - I was merely putting some data into the UK Vs NL claim
I've not really looked at it much TBH so it may well prove your point
I tend to drive cars, motor bikes, cycle and walk depending on the purpose
I reckon the motorbike is the one that puts in the most danger but that's just a wet finger in the air survey
Went along to a few CM rides in thatlondon years ago.
It was embarrassing a lot of the time ,most of the cyclists were there with good intentions,but the message was being missed by a country mile.
It invariably got all shouty and just seemed a waste of time.
Far better to educate the masses and make them aware of the benefits of cycling in a way that will last(and without getting all superior).
It can be a real stealth thing,I have persuaded lots of people that I have worked with to get in to cycling and some are now all year round cyclists.They in turn have gone on to spread the word and I would like to think it has changed the way they now look at other cyclists when they drive.
That data is only relevant if the amount of cyclists is equal, let's call it relative proportionality 😉
As for you druid h hahaha and ha!
More cyclists using the existing roads means more problems 😯
That data is only relevant if the amount of cyclists is equal
ahh.. OK then
So we can't compare the UK with NL
guess we'll just have to guess then? 😉
This is getting a bit nerdy now, but in this graph:
[img] 
[/img]
the numbers up the left hand side refer to the [i]percentage of reduction[/i] in road accidents, not the overall levels.
All this shows is that both countries are getting safer overall, but the Netherlands is doing this by building better infrastructure, and getting more epople cycling, whereas in the UK overall cycling rates have declined by about 10% over the last decade:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics/tables/nts0103/
Which has negative consequences for public health and arguably a lot more.
This is all basic, fundamental stuff here. It's surprising that so many people are anti the Dutch cycling model when it has been shown to work.
It really doesn't. More cyclists = fewer drives & more familiarity with cyclists needs.kaesae - Member
As for you druid h hahaha and ha!More cyclists using the existing roads means more problems
Actually, the graph shows the rate of fatalities [i]per kilometre walked or cycled[/i] so your assertion is incorrect.Mr Agreeable - Member
the numbers up the left hand side refer to the percentage of reduction in road accidents, not the overall levels.All this shows is that both countries are getting safer overall, but the Netherlands is doing this by building better infrastructure, and getting more epople cycling, whereas in the UK overall cycling rates have declined by about 10% over the last decade:
If it's numbers, and not a percentage, why do both start at exactly 100?
Not much guessing needed they have far more cyclists than us and a better cycle network.
We have the mad dash, be prepared for anything including a fist fight, chicken with a banger up it's arse, run!
More cyclists = fewer drives & more familiarity with cyclists needs.
Ah, so I was right then. What do you do when the forum's down, argue with your own shadow?
It's to show the relative drop. That just indicates that the rate of [i]fatalities per kilometre travelled [/i]dropped ever-so-slightly more than in the Netherlands than the UK.
❓Mr Agreeable - Member
More cyclists = fewer drives & more familiarity with cyclists needs.
Ah, so I was right then. What do you do when the forum's down, argue with your own shadow?
I've never argued that there should be fewer cyclists, just that segregation is not the way forward.
What do you do when the forum's down, argue with your own shadow?
TBH - I try not to argue at all, especially on the internet
Aah I see DruidH, more cyclists means less people driving, the genius of your deviously cunning plan has now dawned on me 😯
However I still don't see how you will convince more people to leave the security of thier cars and brave the lunatic assylum that is modern living in the UK.
Perhaps you could enlighten us as too how you will get drivers to become riders, there are several problems such as obesity and of course unhealthy people in general.
I think yours is a good point, however a practical means by which to attain your goals might be a bit tricky to implement.
That just indicates that the rate of fatalities per kilometre travelled dropped ever-so-slightly more than in the Netherlands than the UK.
Because people in the UK are abandoning bikes for cars.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/statistics/tables/nts0103/ <
Well if it's p'ing off other cyclists, what hope with car drivers?
I suspect most naysayers on here drive more than cycle.
So - the cyclists that are left are cycling further to make up for it?Mr Agreeable - Member
Because people in the UK are abandoning bikes for cars.
I cycled 10,000km last year. How about you?RichieBoy - Member
I suspect most naysayers on here drive more than cycle.
I said most, and yeah, not far off that figure. But congrats anyway.
Another to remove from your 'most' estimate here. Bike is my everyday transport, even most weekends. Car is used about twice a month, if that.
I suspect most naysayers on here drive more than cycle.
More time on the motorbike for me, It's looking like your suspicion meter needs recalibrating
So - the cyclists that are left are cycling further to make up for it?
Not sure what your point is. If it's that the total distance cyclists travel has gone up, well good on us, but that doesn't mean it's become more popular, or safer.
The number of cyclists in London has certainly increased a lot, which could lead a reader of the national media to assume there's some sort of renaissance underway, but it's not a big jump, and seems to have been assisted by factors like the congestion charge and terrorist attacks on public transport, which aren't easily replicable in other places.
All the numbers suggest that the only way more people are going to cycle, no matter how lovely and encouraging we are to non-cyclists, is by getting more good quality infrastructure built.
More time on the motorbike for me, It's looking like your suspicion meter needs recalibrating
Perhaps. Or maybe i'm finding it difficult to believe there's so much opposition to CM on a cycling forum!
Another to remove from your 'most' estimate here. Bike is my everyday transport, even most weekends. Car is used about twice a month, if that.
Whats the point of having a car then?
Whats the point of having a car then?
maybe like me - the company gives you it?
Those figures show that it is twice as safe [i]per kilometre travelled[/i] than it used to be.Mr Agreeable - Member
If it's that the total distance cyclists travel has gone up, well good on us, but that doesn't mean it's become more popular, or safer.
Which numbers? So far, I haven't seen any correlation between cycle infrastructure and accident rates? The Netherlands is held up as a great example and yet their absolute and relative fatality rates are little different from the bad old UK.[b]All the numbers[/b] suggest that the only way more people are going to cycle, no matter how lovely and encouraging we are to non-cyclists, is by getting more good quality infrastructure built.
If I don't agree with you that somehow makes me anti-bike? You [i]are[/i] TJ and ICMFP.RichieBoy - Member
Or maybe i'm finding it difficult to believe there's so much opposition to CM on a cycling forum!
maybe like me - the company gives you it?
That would suggest you use it for your job.
If your using it twice a month though, i'm pretty sure a company car would not be applicable.