[Closed] Read the BBC article on why many women are reluctant to cycle?

Is the answer because the public at large are pricks?

Spot on? It never reaches any conclusions, it's just a series of experiences and opinions.

Safety.
Sexist abuse.
Etc
etc

Conclusions I would say? 🙂

This seems to be an article less about cycling, and more about the nature of modern-day Britain i.e. Full of dicks. However, much of what the story mentions could be applied to both sexes: For example, I've had my arse slapped by a passing motorist. I've had "witty" comments aimed at me whilst cycling, and running, for that matter.

I'm not saying their comments aren't legitimate, just that the article seems rather blinkered.

Depressing reading. But the bit where she says a bloke said "keep pedalling, nearly there" and she found it patronising? I've had it said to me and I've said it to other blokes. I guess there is a difference between intention and perception.

I shall try to remember all this advice:

Don't boast of your long rides
Don't cultivate a "bicycle face"
Don't refuse assistance up a hill
Don't use bicycle slang. Leave that to the boys
Don't go out after dark without a male escort
Don't scratch a match on the seat of your bloomers
Don't appear in public until you have learned to ride well
Don't appear to be up on "records" and "record smashing"

. . . even though it's from 1895

Yeah, 1895 was a good year for women's cycling.Lol

That was a quote from an American author.

I bet the UK was even more repressed about women on bikes! Lol

Don't go out after dark without a male escort

That could get expensive this time of year

"I've even had 'keep pedalling, nearly there' - from a male cyclist. They wouldn't have said it to another man, it's so patronising and uncalled for.

As someone who enters races well beyond his fitness level, blokes definitely say it to other blokes...

Is it OK to say that I cringe when I read rubbish like that? Sometimes women just need to WTFU and ignore stupid words shouted by stupid males.

Was talking to my daughter at the weekend, she won't go running without a friend. WTF? And this, motivation, I think is a large part of the problem with women. I told her to join my old running club, that went down well!

*shakes fluffy little head*

Spot on? Not really.

1) "The roads aren't safe" - not true, most of them are. Just avoid the bad ones, it's not usually difficult.

2) "Keep pedalling, nearly there" - she suggests that wouldn't happen to a man - well, it does. All the sodding time. Along with any number of other stupid comments. Not usually sexual harassment though.

It's not that the public are all pricks either. I might get comments from a few dozen cars a year, depending on when I ride. But I've been passed by countless thousands.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Is it OK to say that I cringe when I read rubbish like that?

No, that's not alright, it's sexist! 😉

Excuses excuses. It's tiresome.

Edit: just to say that I've had some flippin' good times on my bike as well as running and walking all over the place and I've survived... for 25 years and the majority of the time on my own.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Excuses excuses. It's tiresome.

The women in the article you mean?

It's not that the public are all pricks either. I might get comments from a few dozen cars a year, depending on when I ride. But I've been passed by countless thousands.

Absolute proof that there aren't a load of pricks out there

Yes. I think I'd be good as a motivational speaker. 😆

2) "Keep pedalling, nearly there" - she suggests that wouldn't happen to a man - well, it does. All the sodding time. Along with any number of other stupid comments. Not usually sexual harassment though.

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind, too. Yes, people can be dicks, but some women need to stop being so sensitive. Just get out there and do it. Prove the idiots wrong.**

**Note: I am not legitimising sexism, just saying that not everything is intended as sexism. Even if it was, why should it stop you from doing something you enjoy doing? Plus, where would women be today if the likes of Emmeline Pankhurst were deterred by what people said.

cinnamon_girl - Member
Yes. I think I'd be good as a motivational speaker.

There is someone I wish you could motivate to ride but it's not a woman! Lol

[quote=mikey74 ]

2) "Keep pedalling, nearly there" - she suggests that wouldn't happen to a man - well, it does. All the sodding time. Along with any number of other stupid comments. Not usually sexual harassment though

Yeah, that thought crossed my mind, too. Yes, people can be dicks, but some women need to stop being so sensitive. Just get out there and do it. Prove the idiots wrong.**
**Note: I am not legitimising sexism, just saying that not everything is intended as sexism. Even if it was, why should it stop you from doing something you enjoy doing? Plus, where would women be today if the likes of Emmeline Pankhurst were deterred by what people said.

Mikey - sounds like that might be a mans name. A number of folk will be along any minute now to inform you that you have no right to comment on account of you having a penis.

Yes, people can be dicks, but some women need to stop being so sensitive.

I'm not going that far. It's much easier to shrug off when you're a reasonable sized bloke than when you're a woman. Just pointing out that whilst the impact of this stuff is different for women, the actions of the ****s in cars are common to both.

I don't like the article though. I wouldn't be surprised if it put even more women off or dented a lot of confidences.

Stop trolling scotroutes!

I wouldn't be surprised if it put even more women off or dented a lot of confidences.

Spot on mol.

I get told "nearly there" or "keep going mate" all the time...

Im not a woman just a fat bastard that looks like he is going to keel over at any second 😆

Mikey - sounds like that might be a mans name. A number of folk will be along any minute now to inform you that you have no right to comment on account of you having a penis.

It is indeed. You may be correct, but I stand by my right to express an opinion, penis n'all.

I don't like the article though. I wouldn't be surprised if it put even more women off or dented a lot of confidences.

Agreed!

wiggles

Im not a woman just a fat bastard that looks like he is going to keel over at any second

You just described me. 😀

There is someone I wish you could motivate to ride but it's not a woman! Lol

Shall I try?

cinnamon_girl - Member
There is someone I wish you could motivate to ride but it's not a woman! Lol
Shall I try?

Nah, have to finish eating this kebab at the mo. 😉

first thing I saw was all the pics of women cyclists are in lycra and helmets. thats enough to put many non enthusiast cyclists off.

[i]"all the pics of women cyclists are in lycra and helmets"[/i]

Scroll down a bit further, tj - there are some very fetching straw boaters.

Starts off crap and I think puts you in a frame of mind for the rest of the article. As said men totally get that flung at them as well.

That said the later stuff is about right, my missus feels more comfortable in female groups, more as an attitude thing than a problem with guys, she'll be getting some Air Maiden sessions this year.

Comment on the roads being dangerous is fair enough. It's all well and good saying "avoid the bad ones" but when they are all bad what do you do then? I can think of two quiet roads out of my town, one has a six mile uphill (which is utterly crap if you're just starting) with an sharp dive back to sea level over a few miles at the end and the other takes you back onto the main road. Neither are exactly confidence building in terms of either stepping up to main raods (the choice is single track or trunk road) or fitness.

The article's trite nonsense.

"Sometimes, when I've been out cycling on my own, I've had male drivers shout at me as they're overtaking," said the 45-year-old British Cycling Breeze Champion. "I've been told to 'read the Highway Code' and 'get off the road'. I've also been sworn at. "I've even had 'keep pedalling, nearly there' - from a male cyclist. They wouldn't have said it to another man, it's so patronising and uncalled for.

"All I want to do is ride my bike and I don't think I should have to put up with abuse from other - mainly male - road users, just because I'm a woman."

I've had all those comments. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. She has a chip on her shoulder and is divisive.

"Women tend to be more concerned about safety than men," said Ms Pidd. "And those fears are perfectly rational. Roads aren't safe for cyclists - you need to be confident to go on the roads."

I read last year that aircon is sexist. Are roads sexist too?

"sometimes it's really mean. Stuff like 'thunder thighs'."

or MAMIL? I wonder why there's no MAWIL in common parlance.

Other comments about new groups being cliquey or riders being put off because they weren't good at sports at school or are worried about their base fitness aren't only applicable to women either. They're possibly more applicable to men who tend to be more competitive and more worried about underperformance, IMO.

Of course if women want to organise exclusive events then good for them. I hope they're not the same ones complaining about the lack of a womens category at an enduro event though.

However, if issues are to be taken seriously they shouldn't be obfuscated. The only one mentioned here is the woman being slapped on the arse by a motorbike rider.

The roads aren't safe" - not true, most of them are. Just avoid the bad ones, it's not usually difficult.

All very well for social rides but if it is for utility that doesn't help if it's where you need to get to is down a non safe road. There may be a alternative route but they are frequently much longer one.

The reasons cited are the exact same reasons that more men don't cycle, it's just that it affects women more and so puts more women off.

The key issue is risk. If cycling is perceived as risky then more risk averse people will be put off. Testosterone makes you less risk averse, which is why you see lower female participation in risky sports. It's not a difficult thing to understand.

The level of sexism in cycling is also a big problem for men. The whole MAMIL campaign is an awful attack on gender as well as age. Imagine if we started publishing articles on how ridiculous some women look in their yoga pants in the national press.

I used to get no end of derrogotary and harrassing comments from the women in my office when I used to cycle in and out. It genuinely felt horrible each time I came to leave. I even got sent the following image by email from one of the women just before I got up to change:

[img] [/img]

Again, I think the reason it doesn't put more men off than it might otherwise do is that men are typically far less agreeable than women (i.e. they score lower on the trait agreeableness) and so it bothers them less. It bothered me for example but only a little and not enough to put me off.

However, if issues are to be taken seriously they shouldn't be obfuscated. The only one mentioned here is the woman being slapped on the arse by a motorbike rider.

Yup, agree. Afraid most of that article is complete twaddle, with the exception of this case of sexual assault, which got lost in what comes across as mostly very sensitive whining. I've had all the above (except the sexual assault) in the four months I've been riding on the road seriously, having spent the previous 20 years leading a mainly MTB cycling existence.

And:

The roads aren't safe

Well, this is hardly a phenomenon that affects only women. Again, serious issue lost in the noise.

Well, this is hardly a phenomenon that affects only women

Of course not, but it can effect women proportionally more. This is the case with most of the points in the article. Of course many of the issues may not effect individual women, but it on mass, on aggregate proportionally more etc that is the important point that seems to be missed.

I wasn’t overly convinced by the article. All of the stuff mentioned applies to men too. I’ve experienced idiots shouting out of the window of a passing car when I’ve been riding alone or with a group of men. The behaviour of some motorists scares me sometimes but again, female motorists can be to blame as well, including the one who deliberately swerved at me and mr Pea.

Of course not, but it can effect women proportionally more.

How? Are men more resistant to the risks of car doors or articulated lorries?

Of course not, but it can effect women proportionally more.

This is exactly true but that's not neccessarily a reflection that the behaviour shown to women is different to men, just that they react differently to it and that's most likely to product of relative testosterone levels.

Indeed, there is research that shows drivers are more careful around female cyclists. I can't find it but there was some research done a few years ago by a bloke who documented his experiences of close passes while wearing a long haired wig.

How? Are men more resistant to the risks of car doors or articulated lorries?

Well this is the effect of testosterone; men just don't perceive the risks in the same way.

Are you suggesting that I have high levels of testosterone? :p

I might add here that whilst lacking concrete evidence, anecdotally the majority of close shaves that I've had on my bike due to inattentive driving are with vehicles predominantly driven by women. The (thankfully very few) incidents I've had with aggressive drivers have been mostly males.

I would say that the same has also applied whilst I've been driving my 4x4 - obviously implications of one of those near misses or incidents no longer being a miss are much more severe for me on my bike.

As far as I can tell there is little sex specific in that article. The arse slapping may count but I have had that as well so does it? They rest is common to male and female. Now, quite possibly women(as a group and creating vast generalisations) may feel that the other issues mentioned are relevant but they are not stopping only them.

There is nothing stopping women wearing lycra or getting covered in muck apart from their own lack of self esteem. Of the non hard core mountain bikers out there that I see, many more of those who could do with dropping a few pounds yet are wearing tight clothing are women. That suggests that they don't care about this. The number of large ladies wearing lycra around town also makes me think that this isn't an excuse for all. Well no more than for a bloke

Hair? Maybe. My wife hates to get hair wet blaming expensive hair do's and complicated drying rituals. That is probably mostly women specific but that's self inflicted so is best an excuse. 😀

I think that the biggest obstacle is human lack of confidence in joining a new group when you are not very good at something. Joining any road cycling club for the first time needs complete ignorance or supreme confidence if you are not going to be a tad nervous. I bet you could find the same issues if women discussed clay pigeon shooting, 4wding, football or even fishing. Its not sex specific, its lack of confidence and that's down to the individual. If a group wants female members then they have to do something about it. My clubs newly appointed and enthusiastic womens rep lays on short and slow rides. However what has happened is that new men have come out of the woodwork instead.
If a group doesn't want or need womenor any new members then they will not go out of their way to encourage them and why should they?

20 pages on the CUK forum
https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16725
it does get up to date on p 20

Are you suggesting that I have high levels of testosterone? :p

I don't know you might have relatively speaking. Testosterone levels vary over a population but men as a group have higher levels of it, which explains a lot more than just the fact that there are more men riding bikes than women.

Obviously testosterone is only variable that influences risk taking behaviour or indeed the perception of risk.

"The friends I've met through cycling are my best friends now. When we do our cycling holidays, we're tired and exhausted; you don't want to see another hill but [u]we all encourage each other[/u] and it really builds your self-esteem."

"I've even had 'keep pedalling, nearly there' - from a male cyclist. They wouldn't have said it to another man, [u]it's so patronising and uncalled for[/u].

WTAF! It seems that it is wonderful when other women do it, but horribly patronising when a man does it.

Oh and I've had people do it to me when I am slowly and sweatily trying to get one over on gravity and it isn't patronising or sexist, unless you are looking for offence and excuses.