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But, for me, cost is main issue. For a long weekend racing at MM Or SiTs including everything (travel, entrance, food, spares, camping kit etc) you can easily spend over £200
Year on year the list of companies there selling stuff/showing kit has got smaller and smaller. MM was very disappointing this year.
More needs to be done on the social/none riding side..... Get dj's, bands etc on a Friday and Saturday night.
Beer festival or something like too
I live less than an hours drive from both MM and SITS, I wouldn't want to drive any further (especially driving back on the Sunday)
Talking of Sundays, do more to keep people around
Change of scenery would be good too, but I know suitable places are hard to find
More needs to be done on the social/none riding side..... Get dj's, bands etc on a Friday and Saturday night.
Beer festival or something like too
I always thought a lot of the events would be better held on a Saturday with a good piss up on the night
As it is most people have a quiet Saturday night, ride Sunday and go straight home
"I am hoping to spice them up a bit soon and organise some events."
Sancho, could you organise some that allow mtb entry like the one in Ilkley did, unfortunately I missed out due to ill health, but would love to try out a cross race (to see if its worth getting a CX bike)
Used to do a few each year but time/money is in shorter supply. This year I just chose the one weekender (SITS) and having seen the MM & 24/12 weather I'm hoping I chose right...
It's just not something that interests me. I don't do camping, I don't see the point of riding round and round again and again.
I reckon we're all finding the cost of fuel prohibitive too.
Sorry, am bit of a miserable cah. 🙄
They are a bit boring.
I'm actually doing more events this year. Did 2 Gravity Enduros last year. Doing 4 this year.
They are all selling out this year unlike last so not everyone is down on entries....
cinnamon_girl - Member
It's just not something that interests me. I don't do camping, I don't see the point of riding round and round again and again.
It's all about learning the course, how fast you can push in the corners, the best lines for traction on the climbs, where you can overtake etc etc and then getting each lap as perfect as possible. Personally I love short course, multi lap races, but each to their own.
Mostly_Balanced - we all want different things from riding don't we? 🙂
Also, if people are getting into road riding they may be switching to sportives from MTB events
This. My regular riding partners are - like me - more into road riding at the moment, so sportives are getting a look in instead of, for example, the ST Weekender. Also, I have no desire to camp anywhere in this weather.
Cinnamon Girl - no criticism intended, just trying to give an insight into a view that you (and others in this thread) obviously don't hold. Big epic scenic rides are great too, both on and off road.
Health issues have curtailed my racin this year but have turn up @ a few local ones to help out!
Costs are an issue and I,m pretty sure they would get more bums on seats if they lowered the entry fee!Go down the easyjet route and charge for showers and dare i say it posh bogs why dont they have the urinal ones they have @ concerts! The costs for solo entrants is taking the piss, wish we could go back to the back in the day Malverns style events people need to be entertained so live music is a must!
Cracking event I have done this year Dyfi even though the music was shite!
Rich Going to STW hopefully they will have some tunes going on!
I think for me mixture of events being a bit "stale" this year, i've not seen anything new to get excited about except the odd DH enduro.
Coming back from the Passportes Du Soleil, you pay 45 euros for 15-20 chairlifts, food, drink, insurance and brilliant signage (plus free rucsac).
Here you pay £45 for a lot of events for 2 port-a-loos in the corner of a field and a miserable git barking the pre-ride speech via a megaphone followed by a dodgy burger and the same four trade stands!
Plus for me, I don't mind riding on a really wet and muddy day, when you can return home or back to a campsite with facilities to deal with the wet and cold, that is part of MTBing in the UK, but you tend to lose your sense of humour when it is raining continously, every short climb has to be walked as other riders (and myself often) have to get off as it is churned up, you have nowhere warm between laps, no decent catering etc
The British weather has played a big part in recent years. Have entered two events - first was canceled due to torrential rain and then Mayhem turned into a mud-bath. Also cost as could not afford to do 24/12 as well, although my prefered race, due to travel costs.
Also the organisers need to make the events more fun, including the course - where were the bombholes on Mayhem this year 🙁 . 24/12 has a great vibe so why can't others do the same. Having done Mayhem 7x this year was my last. The years when they had lake jumping, big screen movies, trials demos etc were bitchin - nowadays they charge you £25 for a t-shirt which you used to get included in your entry.
Make the events more fun and easier/cheaper for more exhibitors to turn up and trade/promote then the numbers will hopefully increase.
Mostly_Balanced - I wasn't taking it as criticism and didn't intend any myself. 🙂 I did a fair amount of races when I was into running, although not for competitive purposes, but fully appreciate why folk do.
These days I'm trying hard to keep my body in one piece, currently recovering from shoulder surgery, so it's damage limitation and riding on cycle paths!
I think the number of events has increased year on year, and with less people with cash in their pocket, I think the bubble has burst!
Not even ridden my mtb that much this year trails have been so poor.
Its mostly been on the road.
Thought of paying to ride horrible trails?
Funny people says enduro races (I suppose it's proper enduro) are bad value for money, as they are here the event that offer best value for money.
I found it to be very funny that people actually look for value for money for an event, when I have been criticised my mark for saying books were better value for money (again) than bike magazines. One thing that WON'T stop me to enter an event is the value for money of said event.
Funky dunc - absolutely
the summer cross allows mountain bikes anyway, so Id like to run a similar format.
But more technical than the "grass" events that have been the norm.
Im looking at tong off road centre and also a park in Guiseley that has a lot of good technical features.
I aim to do a one hour 20 minute multi lap race where everyone finishes regardless of how many laps they have done once the leaders finish.
Slightly longer than a typical cross race and a little bit of a mtb cross over but should be fun.
What flange said way back ^^.
MTB events just aren't value for money when you add it all up. Fuel getting there, the cost of entry, the cost of food/drink while there, the amount you then have to spend on your bike and kit. Can easily be £200 before you even factor in fixing any breakages. One muddy race can knacker brake pads and a drivetrain. You're also away from home for the entire day at least.
Compare that with road racing where you're out early doors, race and generally home for a late lunch, it's cheap(ish), a good workout and (barring bad crashes) doesn't write off half your bike every time.
MTBing for me has gone a bit stale now. I used to do loads of XC, then enduro/24hr stuff and mostly loved it but for me, the thrill of it has just worn off now. The same venues, the same mud, the average (at best) food and facilities. Not for me any more thanks.
There's a few that buck the trend. The Singletrack Classic Weekender is always great and I loved the No Fuss events although they were difficult to get to - real shame they cancelled 10 Around K'tree. Events like (the old) Beastway and the (new) Manchester Midweek Madness are a good format, midweek evening MTB racing in a relatively urban setting and obviously the road based equivalent, midweek crit racing.
Oh, I may have this wrong.. but STW used to list all the events in a Fixtures section, which I don't think happens any more?I wouldn't know which site to look at for events...
+1, it's not a deciding factor, but I looked all over in January for an events calender and couldn't find one. So, I know the events that I've already done, but nothing new....I need to be able to plan ahead. There's about 12-15 of us in [url= http://www.teamraven.co.uk/ ]Team Raven[/url], so if we can find events early we'll be there.
Cost is an issue, for both competitors and promoters, so it should even out? No?
I was at 24/12 last weekend, the weather did spoil it, but no one can change that. However, way back SITS was held at Trentham Gardens which had proper shower blocks and toilets, it makes such a difference especially if the course is at the same venue, but again it costs.
I vowed not to do another 24hr, I've done 8 and enjoyed them, but not last weekend. For similar money I can have a weekend in Wales or Exmoor and changed my plans according to the weather.
I've done mayhem and SITS for the last, er, six or seven years and probably will carry on. In previous years I've also done some of Kielder 100, 10 UTB, some cross races and some XC races or one of what used to Merida marathons. This year I also did Muckmedden as it was just down the road.
I suspect I'll carry on with that sort of mix. I don't think the price of the events is going up all that much, maybe a tenner in 8 years for mayhem which isn't that bad when compared to the percentage increase in, say, a pint. The cost of getting there has though but it's not yet at levels that put me off.
Cost of XC races has put me off as last time I looked it was at least 25 quid which seemed steep. I guess for hours on the bike it's not too out of whack with Mayhem if you're not one of the fast boys but Mayhem et al are a whole weekend on top of the time on the bike.
The thing that mostly stops me doing events is they clash with other things: holidays, friends being in town and so on. However, that's mostly as there seem to be more events on so more of them clash. If not for that I'd probably have done at least one of glentress 7s and tour de ben.
I think there is a cyclical element to these things. I remember back in the early to mid 90s there were loads of XC races and they were mostly pretty well attended and then it all seemed to die out a bit as people moved on to other things. Then the 24hr/marathon events started picking up and we've not got loads of them and again they seem to be having a bit of a slump.
That was a bit rambling really.
I think you need new people every year to keep in going, or rather their enthusiasm.
I rode 24s every year from 2000 to 2009. At my last event I nearly went home before I'd started when I felt the first rain drop.
And tbh the riding isn't great and the social side can't be enjoyed when you're riding.
So my reasons
1) bored
2) Too many rude weekend warriors.
3) Too much hanging on just one day, got a bad cold once so for the cost of my solo entry, travel, food, spares etc I rode one lap.
That said I'm racing most weeks so still doing events, and if I race eight times a month that's only £64
I wanted to do more events but they have been cancelled even built a new bike for the no fuss 10 -10 events which were cancelled in Wales so just saved my money , also wanted to do some gravity enduro events but dates clashed with family events so no luck there, and have no money to travel far so was hoping to do more local comps, and have now given up, and just go riding, also it is very hard to find details of events, and I guess the weather does not help much..
Event cost and having to ride, I use the term loosly, in a load of mud.
In my point of view it's not easy to find event or race series details, but then I haven't looked too hard either.
Reasons why I've not taken part this year include:
Repetition & familiarity of the main events and their courses e.g. MM, 24/12 & 24 Solo Nationals etc. However, missing them this year could enhance my experience next time.
Riding more on the road and going to 'new' road based events.
Petrol prices to travel to events are prohibitive.
I bought a new bike this year and I can't afford to do all of the events that I used to do.
The entry prices this year are not as good value as they have been.
The weather hasn't helped; it hasn't stopped me riding at all (far from it) - just stopped me from wanting to ride round in muddy circles.
Some events have conflicted with football - I bought my first season ticket for 25 years this season.
Great stuff. Keep up the comments, good or bad. I have no particular agenda on this topic, I'm just interested. I've always done events purely as a social thing, so I look forward to the camping and the hanging around bit, I appreciate that many people don't like camping, especially (and understandably when wet).
As for rich race organisers. I can't say I've met any outside of North America. (24hrs of Moab for example is $360 for a solo rider, $165 per rider for a fun team - and then you have to pay camping on top of that). Putting on an event like Mayhem needs something like 16 acres(!) of camping and there needs to be a course that is wide enough to take 24 hours of overtaking, given that the fast riders are often more than twice the speed of slower riders. So putting a 24hour on somewhere that's a challenge to ride (say for argument Coed Y Brenin) doesn't work once you get past a couple of hundred riders, and everyone will bitch about not being able to overtake. And I just heard this morning that Pat Adams was charged £50 an hour (each) for the four tractors that were pulling everyone out of the campsite at Mayhem.
Anyway, I guess there are pros and cons about levels of quality in race organisation that affect the price. If you want chip timing, that's an instant £1000 for the timing guys to get out of bed. If you want showers, marquees, barriers and massage tents, that all adds up. However, if you want no-frills, look at cyclocross where it's £7 to enter, you get a fun hour of racing and a cup of tea for 50p at the end of it. Finding the venues can be an issue too - to put on a 'cross race you only need school playing fields. To put on a 24 hour or similar race, you'll need ten miles of private land that doesn't have any bridleways crossing it. Plus the aforementioned camping and so on.
After years of not doing any XC, I'm finally wanting to do a few two-hour flat out races, though I'll admit I've not got round to finding out any. The BC calendar incidentally is a pretty good resource for many events.
I'm rambling too now, so I'll stop 🙂
djflexure - Member
Not even ridden my mtb that much this year trails have been so poor.Its mostly been on the road.
Thought of paying to ride horrible trails?
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST
I think You need a serious dose of mtfu! If ye don't like mud, perhaps mtbing isn't for you after all?
Chipps, the feature you did on 100 quid weekends strikes a cord. My mates and i can travel from here in Ayrshire and have a great weekends camping and riding world class trails in the lakes or the highlands for 100 quid. And that includes beer n food, give or take 20 quid.
I too really like the idea of st weekender, and fancy going next year, but as countless others say, riding laps n laps for upwards of fifty quid doesn't do it for me, each to their own though.
Mainly cost, but the weather is factor. I have been losing the will to live, let alone ride due to total downpour. I have always liked to do events in different parts of the country but lately I have found myself driving long distances in a day because I can't afford to stay overnight.
Ironically the only reason I'm doing less than normal is because some have cancelled, and others sold out...
I think it's partly a change of direction, I couldn't get a ticket for the Gravity Enduro round at Innerleithen frinstance but 10@Kirroughtree lacked numbers. There's still a lot of people doing events but maybe not the old stalwarts so much.
For me, one lap of a XC race in 2010, two XC races in 2011 and one XC and three gravity enduro races planned/done in 2012. My gut feeling is that mainstream MTBing is heading more towards the gravity enduro format and away from the XC endurance format.
P.S. That poll about transporting your bike was strange - both wheels off as the only in the car option?! No wheels off with one bike, front wheels off with two, both wheels off with three, and my car isn't even that big!
I have entered quite a few through the years the road sportives are the biggest waste of money paying 50 notes for riding on a public road that you can ride on any day is just crazy. Enduro events can be fun if your riding on private land different scenery and the likes. Its just so expensive to drive to these events with parting with £40 plus to enter.
PDS is the only event I've entered this year, includes food, lift passes and isn't a race.
I don't really enjoy racing I enjoy riding, the banter, the views so therefore competitive events don't do it for me.
Entered a few Gorrick, No Fuss and a Scottish XC Series, gave it a try.
I was a regular trailquest/mtbo competitor until moving abroad last year. It helps to live in the right place. I enjoyed our county based league (North Yorkshire), which meant travel to events was never a financial burden. Entry fees were very reasonable and courses were almost infinitely variable: negating the 'round and round the same track' comments, even if the location had been used before. I was also able to ride in the generation class which meant my teenage son and I could compete together.
I know trailquesting is not everyone's cup of tea but for me it was ideal and were I back in North Yorkshire I can see no reason why I would not be again this year.
I used to do the Polaris once or twice a year. Then is went down the tube (taken over/ruined) and has only recently restarted under the OMM badge. It was fun, and often took me to a new area, where someone had contrived to work out a load of great riding. But it was expensive, and all that driving, parking/attempting to get out of a muddy field at the end etc. Now I have a good few years of biking under my belt I am more self-contained and happier to pick my own location, bunch of mates, and weather window. Not saying never again, just not at the moment. Just recently back from a Long Mynd weekend. Not too far, nice campsite, great riding, no fuss - brilliant. Maybe I've just got old, slippers anyone 😉
I find that the entry fees are too expensive and offer little value for money. I'm not a fast rider but do like endurance events and usually ride as a soloist. However, being a slow female veteran, I do get very pivved off having the "female veteran" class amalgamated with "female open". If you enter a certain class then it should remain as is. It's not my fault that there are no other competitors. I noticed at one event, there were at least 10 veteran females entered about 4 years ago, just as I was taking up mountain biking. However, I'm lucky to get 2 or 3 in my class now.
I hope we see more low key gravity enduro races come out. Non uci jobs for us mortals. Bit of racing followed by a Barbie and beer (maybe some music) sounds like paradise to me.
I missed the exmoor one unfortunately but I'll be doing the next one.
For the past 11 years I've done Mayhem, SITS, Bikefest, Gorrick enduro, the National XC series, occasional Nat Champs, Southern Series, Gorricks, D2D and more recently the Brass Monkey and Thetford Winter Series.
This year I have once again done/will do all of these. The fuel costs have made me share lifts a lot more than I used to. I don't spend a lot on drinking or partying so pretty much all my spare cash goes on racing - mainly on hotels and fuel. I agree the arena at Mayhem seemed a bit quiet this year - however you have to remember the weather which really put people off hanging around.
In general, I think the number of events has reached a bit of saturation. 7 or so years ago we had no Southern series, for example. This, coupled with people having less money to pay for racing has led to more people just going for a ride instead. Cycling is rather unique in that you can 'do' it without having to enter an event/match etc (unlike, say, football). The recession has hit racing and people just ride instead. As was said above - people are looking at a weekend away bivvying as a lot more appealing than entering another 24hr race at the same place and risking more pushing. With the days of trail centres guaranteeing a decent weekend of riding no matter what the weather I think the big 24s have suffered - although I completely understand why these events have to be where they are. If there was a decent, built, all weather track at Mayhem/SITS it would transform the event. Bikefest shows what is possible here. The days of pushing your bike through clay for 24hrs being 'ok' are over.
GB
I think something else that's certainly had a big impact on me is that my mountain biking has just moved on. Over the years I've done a few Polaris events about a decade ago, 7 or 8 Mountain Mayhems and a handful of other 24 hour races and similar, a few of the old "enduro" 60-100km ride things, but in the last 3 years or so I've been out nearly every week on trails which are just more fun than those events offer. And I've done very few events recently. We only ever used to do 40km+ rides 10 yrs back but nowadays I sometimes go and throw myself about in the same woods for just an hour and I love it. Events wise very little has offered me that kind of riding. Maybe I should've tried DH a few years ago but I never did. I've done a Mega and now I've entered a gravity enduro which I'm really looking forward to and which maybe will close that gap.
I think the money point for me is more of a shift in my priorities than a simple observation that events and travelling have become much more expensive. I suspect the major costs haven't moved much ahead of wage inflation - car costs certainly haven't - but I no longer want to chuck that money at an event given the other opportunities that are out there. I probably spend more on riding than I used to overall though.
And then I don't think many of the individual events hold the appeal for me they used to. For me Mayhem got too big and lost a lot of its atmosphere, for example. Perhaps UK mountain biking has moved on too and widened it's appeal to a bigger audience? Perhaps organised events get you into it but then you can do it yourself and most people on here have been doing it themselves a long time?
chipps - I work hereAfter years of not doing any XC, I'm finally wanting to do a few two-hour flat out races, though I'll admit I've not got round to finding out any.
there's a series only 10 miles from your door, you could ride there and back (good enough for TwinklyDave) and help with the course setup at 07:15 to get a free entry (keeping with the austerity theme), if we are organised the course setup helpers normally get a hot drink and food voucher as well..... in fact we are nearly paying you to ride 😀
you've only missed 17 since 2009, but there are another two left this year 😉
[url= http://www.rootsandrain.com/ ]Roots and Rain[/url] Plug for the more gravity event list and photo & results resource.
Would be an interesting feature Chipps to have some of the event organisers in and ask about costs etc. Put some of these points to them and see what they say.
How about putting a financial summary of the weekender out (blurred/redacted if needed) to show where the costs are.
Over here in Tasmania I have talked to a few organisers who are very open about the Minimum number required to run an event.
The other financial we don't see is subsidy (a lot of non UK events are) is there anything available in the UK (lottery etc)
British Cycling seem strange some days, follow them on Twitter/Facebook and there is loads about anything road, but even when the World Cup DH/XC is on it's never mentioned.
In the end it does leave me with the same impression that STW forum think that everyone apart from themselves should work for free and put on events for less than it costs. If not they are just profiteering. Could we have a touch of realism to the forum please.....
Hi guys,
I gave up paying to ride around in muddy grass fields years ago - partly due to being in my 30s and cost and also racing is crap for partners / families etc
The bad points are as follows
1) cost of event / getting there etc
2) boring
3) bad attitude of some people on the race track / on campsites
But overwhelmingly I would rather spend my time riding with mates on real trails in the lakes / powys / dales / scotland / exmoor and make a weekend of it
I often do 2 / 3 day mini tours via yhas / b+bs and thats far more enjoyable than doing an event - well for me at least.
I ride for fitness / thrills / nature watching etc and I get more from a weekends riding / or a long day ride than actually competing etc
regards
paul
I have done 10 UTB last 4 years but gave it a miss this year owing to (crap) weather the last 2 years and the fact that for a fun event there are too many people taking it far too seriously.
some concerning news
http://shred.cc/shredmag/?p=1077
We have had invaluable help and advice from the Beastway Team, I hope someone/ more than one, can step up
good luck guys