[Closed] Putoline question

Also, Putoline is a brand name. Which specific lube are the evangelists on about?
Wax?

Its the boil in the tin wax meant for motocross bikes

Its a filthy faff to apply but it means your chain is well lubed for many miles - I reckon a couple of thousand on road, a few hundred depending on conditions offroad. Chain life is extended hugely - IME at least 4 times as long. shifting remains good, no chainsuck.

Heat the tin up till it smokes, add chain and stir, remove from heat and remove chain allowing excess to drip off back into tin. When cool wipe chain with a rag with a tiny bit of solvent on it to remove excess from outside. After the first ride wipe again to remove excess. Then enjoy well lubed riding for many rides until you need to do it again.

Occasionally I have to put a tiny bit of oil on the sideplates to stop them rusting even tho there is plenty of lube left in the rollers.

its around £20 for a kilo and my tin has lasted 3 years. My commuter needs relubing about every couple of thousand miles

I will again repeat the offer - anyone who wants to try it and wants a chain treated I will do it for them - Edinburgh based.

I'm one of TJ's converts, it is awesome stuff. I got a cheap deep fat frier to speed it up, makes things much more convenient and less likely to burn my garage down.

It lasts well but will it last a wet puffer? Not sure. I generally expect to redo mine after a really filthy normal weekend, a wet enduro race or whatever. It'll last weeks of normal wet riding though.

What TJ said.

I transferred my tin to a mini-fryer which has temp control. With it set on 190C it's far runnier than I ever risked it on the stove and runs off the outside of the chain so no need for wiping down afterwards.

I reckon it does about 500miles between lubes in all but the shittiest* of conditions. On the road it's life can be extended by VERY sparing application of wet lube (a drop every few rollers and let the chaining work it in) as I think it dries out over time.

Cassettes turn black with a thin coating of wax after a few rides, but it's not the horrible gloopy, muddy mess that wet lubes produce that get's ground back into the chain, it's still dirty wax so you just leave it.

I tried UBS and hated it, washes off in the first puddle and even i the dry it left the drivechain making a horrible racket on anything over 50miles (i.e. any road ride). If you're impressed by that stuff this will seem like witchcraft.

Same offer as TJ for anyone in Reading, I'll even make a cup of tea.

It's not cheap initially, but I doubt I'll ever need to buy lube again.

*it won't last a wet puffer if the pics are anything to go by, but then it'll last probably 8x-10x longer than conventional lube.

Thanks Guys ...sounds like the way forward for me.

This I like:

but it's not the horrible gloopy, muddy mess that wet lubes produce

Daft questions -- when you need to re-lube, how easy is it to clean off the existing gunk? Also how does it stand up to the (or maybe just my?!) regular hose down?

No cleaning, just put the chain back in the tin/fryer, what grit there is just falls to the to of the fryer and sits there (it's a wax, half the point is that mud doesn't stick to the chain to need cleaning off). Just make sure the chain is dry (i.e. not immediately after a wet ride or washing the bike) before putting it in, otherwise you end up with a shed of horrible putoline smelling steam and a boiled over fryer.

It withstands a garden hose just fine rinsing mud off the cassette, chainring, mech, etc.

thisisnotaspoon - Member

I transferred my tin to a mini-fryer which has temp control. With it set on 190C it's far runnier than I ever risked it on the stove and runs off the outside of the chain so no need for wiping down afterwards.

I've ended up cooling it down again, it seems like a "dose" lasts longer when it's applied cooler. Could just be coincidence though.

I always like to deep clean it first- it's just me being obsessive maybe but the amount of crap that comes out of even a clean looking chain is ridiculous. But tbh I could just be wasting a load of time, it might make no real difference.

I never clean before putting the chain back in the tin. As for cleaning on the bike - a hosepipe and water gets the muck off no problem.

Right. I'm doing this!

Been reading about it for long enough.

What cheap, small deep fat fryer for chain wax?

And do I need to clean the current lube off first, or does it mix in OK? My chains aren't dripping in gunk, there won't be much.

I'd clean it first but I don't think it importnat

I never clean before putting the chain back in the tin. As for cleaning on the bike - a hosepipe and water gets the muck off no problem

Excellent ...thanks. I'm in!!

I've never known how hot to get it so just melt it until to chain drops in. I dip it in and out a few times. Typically when I hang it to drain, it collects at the bottom of the chain. I just wipe the excess off with a babywipe.

Lasts well. After a mucky ride, I just rinse and dry.

I've never known how hot to get it so just melt it until to chain drops in. I dip it in and out a few times. Typically when I hang it to drain, it collects at the bottom of the chain. I just wipe the excess off with a babywipe.

I leave mine in there for a good 10 minutes, giving it good shake in the basket to wash any much out. I'm not sure what the minimum time should be, but I found leaving it longer must let the chain warm up properly and any remaining solid wax in the rollers melt. It seemed to run off much more evenly afterwards. 10min is 10min just because I leave it and go inside to brew up whilst I wait.

which fryer

This would probably do the job, mine was from lidl but it's the same volume, and all you really want is the smallest volume you can get away with.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Russell-Hobbs-18238-Compact-Fryer/dp/B00426DNJS/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1484741526&sr=1-1&keywords=Russell+Hobbs+18238+Compact+Deep+Fryer%2C+0.9+L+-+White

Top tips to stop it smoking when warming up,
1) don't leave the basket in the solid wax, otherwise you can't stir it as it melts
2) melt it on a low setting until it's completely molten
3) get a knife and cut the solidified wax into blocks and stir it as it warms, otherwise you get a layer of super hot burning oil under a layer of cold solid wax (and a lot of smoke).

And always do it outside on an extension lead, it stinks, even in an open garage.

I'd just found that same one! Cheers for the link and the tips.

TINAS, I tend to decrease the chain thoroughly before waxing so less worried about melting out the remaining.

Good to hear what others are doing though as chucking in a "dirty" chain would be a lot easier.

I'm guessing that a 0.9l fryer would take the 1kg of wax, which I'm guessing is buttons more than a litre?

I'm guessing the thing gives a enough space for the 0.9l cooking oil bubbling when your chips are in, which isn't going to happen with wax and a few chains?

While I'm on, they're an eclectic lot, the purchasers of the Russell Hobbs compact fryer. They also bought:
- Bowler Hat Black Felt - Best...
- PUSH UP PRO BODY WORKOUT ABS CHEST FITNESS KIT GRIPS
- Ohpa 30% Water Saving Showerhead Plus Ionic Filter Handheld Shower Head with 200 % Turbocharged Pressure and Energy Ball Filtration for Fixing Dry Skin & Hair
- Swear Word Coloring Book ( Black Edition ): 40 Sweary Designs on Black Paper. Stress Relief Coloring book:Mandalas, Patterns,Flowers and Animals(Adult Coloring)

I'm currently using a £10 slow cooker from Argos and tea lights to wax my chain. I learned this in Oregon where the trails are dry and dusty so it works a treat. Not so much in a gritty wet winter...

I like the method, though, so I'll get on the Putolin band wagon.

Not so much in a gritty wet winter...

Precipitation in the state varies widely: some western coastal slopes approach 200 inches (5,100 mm) annually, while the driest places, such as the Alvord Desert (in the rain shadow of Steens Mountain) in eastern Oregon, get as little as 5 inches (130 mm)

Where's everyone buying the wax from?

edit: Cheapest option seems to be £26 from here https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/238292

That's where I've just bought mine from. Free postage.

Some German place is a couple of quid cheaper, but I imagine shipping will outweigh the difference.

Ta Ned

I'm assuming the wax is relatively solid at room temperature? So presumably you scoop the stuff from the tin to the fat fryer?

If you don't want to go the fat fryer route then will any old gas camping stove do to heat the tin up?

Yes and yes - tho I put mine on the gas hob in the kitchen

Yes about as hard as butter from the fridge.

TJ clearly has a very understanding wife and a good extractor fan. I used to do it on my Trangia, the slightly unpredictable naked flame and boiling hot oil added an extra layer to the danger 😈

After knocking over my big tin of Putoline in the garage last time I used it 😡 I'm keen to explore the deep fat fryer / slow cooker options. What is slow cooker option, Jimmy, and what are the tea lights for? Sounds like it would create less smoke than the deep fat fryer.

I took it that he meant he melted tea lights into the slow cooker as a cheap alternative to putoline?

It'd work, although the reason putoline stinks is it's high sulphur content, which makes it a great lubricant under pressure (gearbox oil is similar), and it's black because it's full of graphite. So it's not quite the same.

ah, now I read it again that makes sense!

I really want chips now.

What soils do you Putoline users ride on? Clay seems to gum up the drivetrain and need jetwashing out - I expect putoline would survive moderate jetwashing. But gritty mud would get right in there and also tends to need jetwashing as it gets right inside the links and makes everything graunchy.

molgrips - Member

But gritty mud would get right in there and also tends to need jetwashing as it gets right inside the links and makes everything graunchy.

I don't ride much in clay but I find gritty mud not a problem- the wax is pretty thick and the melted application gets it right into the links so it seems to make a pretty good barrier. It only really seems to struggle with heavy, frame-blocking mud, which just seems to wipe it off, and really driving water (kinlochleven style "riding down a river" nonsense). But then what deals with those well? I think the best compliment I can give it is, I've never had it not reach the end of a ride.

Scottish enduro racing is a pretty harsh test- I go somewhere, ride all day in the mud, put the bike in the boot without cleaning, next day do it all again. I'd expect to clean and relube it after one weekend like that but I've never had another lube that can do a weekend of that without trouble.

jet washing won't move the wax at all. Only solvent s do that not even detergent will shift it

Acidic peat takes it off the outside but not from in the rollers. Grit just falls off the chain as it can't get into the links rollers as they are full of solid wax. clay I don't know.

Once the wax is on the sticky layer on the outside soon attracts dust then its no longer sticky. It just stays on the chain and lubes it from the inside out.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but how does this compare to Squirt? Everyone seems to love that but I just found in clagged up yet still washed off easily.

Putoline looks like something fun to mess with, and a bonus if I don't have to relube a manky drivetrain every ride!

It doesn't clag up or wash off. It just lubes the chain. For a long long time.

squirt is also a few quid for a tiny bottle most of which is solvent IIRC. Putoline is £26 a kilo with no solvent at all.

Just for balance, maybe I'm not doing it right, but it's not as magical as all that ^^^^ for me. Daily commuter. I heat it up in the tin on a 1500W Portable Single Electric Hot Plate. However it's made me lazier in my treatment of chains. Tend to put a little oil on when they start to get rattly. Can't remember last time I used the putoline wax.

My current favourite is Shimano wet lube. It lasts a pretty long time without clagging up, and also cannot be jetwashed off. I mean you can jetwash it clean but there's still a thin film attached. You then just oil it again in 10 seconds and done.

The re-application is less of a faff. I suppose I need to try Putoline.

Squirt is a really different thing. TBH at its best, I think squirt is pretty much just as good- in dry conditions basically. It doesn't last as well but it's so much easier to apply that this cancels out a bit. But there are some conditions that squirt is absolutely shit at, and quite a few that it's fairly bad at. Same with other lubes. And that's basically the killer edge for the putoline- I don't find it as godly as TJ, but there's nothing it's really bad at, it's just varyingly good.

sirromj - not getting it hot enough / leaving it in long enough? Dunno - folks expectations and findings do vary but for me its like magic. Some folk maybe think the wax has gone when the outside of the chain is dry - but if you run your finger along the chain you will get two black lines from the wax that still is in the rollers and that is slowly oozing out.

Convert here too. Argos cheap fat fryer makes whole process a breeze.

Think it gets hot enough - put a wet chain in once and it bubbled a spat a fair amount but not dangerously. It gets all these patterns moving around in it I like watching for a while 🙂

I tend to treat it as something I use when the chain's got grotty and I want to give the inners a good clean and lube - which I'm happy with it for that. After a couple of weeks I tend to top up with with whatever lube I grab every week or so.

its the topping up that is the problem then I guess - anything with solvent or light oil simply washed the putoline out. It does not mix well with other lubes

Sounds too much buggering about, I'll stick with the old rock n roll extreme.

Never have to clean the chain, other than when hosing the clag off the rest of the bike. Lasts a manky wet West of Scotland ride no probs.

the wax that still is in the rollers and that is slowly oozing out

I think that's the crux of the matter. It's only the rollers that need lubricating. Lube anywhere else just acts as a gunk magnet

It's only the rollers that need lubricating.

And where the sideplates meet?

I must be the only person who tried this and went back to other lubes.

Whilst it was certainly more resistant to winter riding on the Mendips than regular lube, I found in the deepest recesses of winter, I needed to replenish it after a 20 mile ride.

At that frequency I found it too much faff, too anti-social (it really does stink) for not enough benefit. As TJ says, it doesn't really get on with other lubes, so it sort of limited any top ups with traditional lubes when out riding, which meant it needed degreasing prior to re-dipping.

I also found it made shifting a bit sluggish because, well, it's a solid at room temperature and below.

Currently running my latest R&D with Wickens & Soderstrum No.5 lube this winter, which seems, for my riding, to be equally good from a regular dropper bottle.

balls. just sunk £40 in the stuff and a fryer.

Hey ho, I'll give it a bash. Or save it til the finish line wet runs out and use the fryer for chips in the meantime!

So I have a tin, tried it and to be honest was unsure really the benefits outweighed the faff. It's bloody messy stuff. Albeit not as horrible as a well used wet lube setup. I may give it another go and wife the side of the chain down with a solvent. I ride in the FOD about 3 times a week and I found after a week of winter riding and cleaning it needed another lube. Which is a truck load of hassle. So I went back to wet Lubes.

Will give it another go tonight, but I'm less convinced

Hmm. I hate a claggy chain, so I use wax lube (epic ride or similar) in the summer and finish line wet in the winter. With the wet stuff, I wipe a drop across the sideplate junction, roller and sideplate junction on each link, on the inside of the chain (top of the bottom run of chain. Sounds faffy, but only takes a minute. But it is a bit faffy. And that's after a hose (every 2nd/3rd ride, probably) compressor to blast the water off and a wipe.

We'll see how the faff factor compares with the wax.

Albeit not as horrible as a well used wet lube setup.

I don't have a problem with clagged up wet lube; I squirt bike cleaner on the chain then jetwash it whilst I do the rest of the bike. Gets all the grit out.

I don't have a problem with clagged up wet lube; I squirt bike cleaner on the chain then jetwash it whilst I do the rest of the bike. Gets all the grit out.

I've convinced myself that the faff it worth it because I don't wash bikes between rides. So an extra 20min lubing the chain once every couple of months is easily made up for by not washing the bike and chain before re-lubing every ride. I just get home, lock the bike in the shed and leave it till the next ride. No cleaning, lubing or tinkering.

What soils do you Putoline users ride on?

Swinley/Crowthorne, Tunnel hill/Farnbrough and the Chilterns. So a mix of sand and loam at the first two and plain old wet mud on the latter.

Can't really foo that for long where I live. Clay clogs everything up if you get onto some.

nedrapier - if you don't get on with it I'll buy it off you no problem.

Thanks TJ, I'll bear that in mind.

I noticed a few people gave Putoline a go after reading this thread. A few weeks later, how are you getting on?

After this weekends riding conditions, I'm thinking of giving it a go...

Also, how are people splitting 11 speed chains? Are there any reusable 11 speed quicklinks?

I use the £2.70ish ones from Merlin. YBN or something.

I did splash out on a proper bi-directional link tool to stop me firing them off across the kitchen too.

I have a used once tin of putoline if anyone fancies trying it. Its not for me!

Got my first Putoline'd chain drying in the shed, feels like a rite of passage 🙂

For the road bike. Was using Fenwicks stealth on the training bike which has been good but one wet ride and it needs re-doing. Hoping Putoline will stick around a bit longer. Just a tin and a hot plate here, it's not been much faff so far.

A couple of rides in with the putoline and it makes for a lovely smooth drivetrain. Now lets see how long it lasts when it gets grotty out there.

In the meantime I've done the XC, CX and turbo bikes 🙂 Quite a nice process, though need to remember that the oil is bloody hot when you get the chain out.

Anyone seen any data as to how it compares to stuff like Squirt in terms of efficiency?

I'm wondering about using it, local alkaline sandy muck drinks chain lube.

What do you use to degrease the chain before dipping it in the wax? Would shaking it up in a jam jar of petrol risk damaging the chain in some way?

It wouldn’t damage it.
But ffs, make sure the chain is bone dry after it, before you heat it up in hot wax, petrol can be surprisingly volatile eh.

Jam jar with white spirit / petrol is fine. Just make sure its evaporated off before you put it in the hot oil!

*beaten to it!*

Giant paper clip and some string makes pulling the chain out really easy!

Ha! Still got my tub, unopened since I bougt off the back off this thread first time round.

Still got plenty of wet lube left, but I might order another fryer (mine got sent back from the collection place when I didn't collect it quickly enough) and do all the bikes over Christmas break.

Or I might not. We'll see.

What do you use to degrease the chain before dipping it in the wax?

Nothing - just bang it in and swish it around.

What do you use to degrease the chain before dipping it in the wax?

Usually shake it in a pot of white spirits, then give it a quick wash, then pop it in the oven to dry. But with putoline i'm tempted just to pop it straight in the oil (if i had the chip fryer with basket I probably would.)

Giant paper clip and some string makes pulling the chain out really easy!

Used an old brake cable inner threaded through the chain.

I slosh mine around in paraffin, not so much for hte chain's sake as the rest of the wax, I don't want it mixed up with other stuff or full of dirt.

My tin is now almost at an end, Barely enough wax left in the tin to cover a chain and what there is is full of grit 🙂 Its lasted me years tho and I haven't used anything else on the chains for that time

Really must stop sitting in the fence and giving this a go. Normal lube just doesn't last here and shifting turns to crap quickly.

Fancy giving this a go. Any of the unconvinced want to offload their tin of Putoline before I go buy a new one?

Realistically,how many gritty wet nasty 20mile rides does one hot waxy dunk last?

scruff - Member

Realistically,how many gritty wet nasty 20mile rides does one hot waxy dunk last?

Depends on the exact conditions- I've sometimes redone it after a single race weekend, of really intrusive innerleithen clogged mechs death, or kinlochleven mud-powerwasher-riding-down-rivers. Generally I expect it to do maybe 4 or 5 orrible rides. I sometimes top it up with a liquid lube just to keep things sweet and prevent rust (which is the putoline's main failing, it lubes the bits that need lubed but it doesn't have a lot of rust protection for the plates etc)

And writing that down, it doesn't sound that great but with other lubes, I've sometimes ended up washing the bike in a river halfway through a single ride or carrying some lube to top up, or just suffered failing performance so 2 days of pain free motoring is a lot better.

I sometimes top it up with a liquid lube just to keep things sweet and prevent rust (which is the putoline's main failing, it lubes the bits that need lubed but it doesn't have a lot of rust protection for the plates etc)

That seems like a pretty serious flaw in the plan to me. If you end up adding lube anyway, surely it negates a lot of the benefits? OK, so you've still got a nice smooth-running internally-lubed chain, but you have to put lube on the outside to stop it rusting, which then attracts mud, etc. and turns to a dirty greasy mess?

That's a lot less than I expected. My current lube is Muc-off wet. I take a wee dropper bottle with me so I can apply some if I need to on a daily basis. But that typical day could be 50 miles or more of mud, rivers, peat bogs, beaches and dusty fire roads.

Having acquired a motorbike I was considering opting for Putoline for the push bikes but it doesn't seem worth the hassle.

thenorthwind - Member

That seems like a pretty serious flaw in the plan to me. If you end up adding lube anyway, surely it negates a lot of the benefits? OK, so you've still got a nice smooth-running internally-lubed chain, but you have to put lube on the outside to stop it rusting, which then attracts mud, etc. and turns to a dirty greasy mess?

Nah, not really. TBH I really don't know what "attracts mud" means, when you're knee deep in mud you don't need to worry about whether you're attracting it or not, it comes to you anyway... The point of this stuff isn't that it somehow avoids getting muddy, it just cares much less

The corrosion thing is just for when the chain is still well lubed but the outer plates have had their coating worn off, which takes a few rides- it's not really an issue for offroad but it does matter if you're riding on salted roads. Same as other waxes really.

don't know what "attracts mud" means

I guess what I mean is "retains" mud but

The point of this stuff isn't that it somehow avoids getting muddy, it just cares much less

I take your point.

Will just have to try it I guess!

PS In case anyone missed it as it ended up last post on the page, if anyone wants rid of a tin of Putoline they're not getting on with, I'll buy it off you.

scotroutes, I currently use much off wet. It seems to barely last a 10 mile wet and muddy ride. How do you get 50 miles out of it.

It's also crap as soon as there is any dust - instant griding paste!

The corrosion thing is just for when the chain is still well lubed but the outer plates have had their coating worn off, which takes a few rides- it's not really an issue for offroad but it does matter if you're riding on salted roads.

Not that a bit of corrosion on the outer plates is an issue, it’s just cosmetic.

Well, eventually it gets to be an issue but yeah, I'm really doing it for the cosmetic resaons