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@molgrips I certainly wouldn't replace it at this point. To be honest, I don't know how quickly a chain normally gets to the point where you can get the 0.75 in but only with this much force because I wouldn't normally check it til I thought it might be anywhere near the end of its life. I'm just giving these chains extra attention because of the Putoline. It might have plenty of miles left before the chain checker goes in easily.
Morning All,
After a muddy awful ride this last Sunday reached peak mud for this winter.
Had a mechanical because the chain was so stiff/knackered from not being lubed properly.
Ripped it off and it is busy soaking in degreaser. A can of putoline is on the way and I am going all in on putoline.
Going to be using the Argos DFF. Newbie question but do you decant/scrape the putoline into the DFF and just leave it there forever and keep using? Storing the fryer and the putoline together. Assume that is a obvious yes. What do I know though and thought it best to check.
Thanks in advance
Newbie question but do you decant/scrape the putoline into the DFF and just leave it there forever and keep using?
That's what I did. Heated the tin over gas and poured it into the DFF, where it's been since.
Yep in fryer forever. Well, maybe I will take it out and replace with homebrew parrafin wax mix in the summer that's less sticky.
I dug it out of the tin with a spoon rather than bothering to heat it.
There was more than enough to fill my fryer, there was about 30% left over. So pro tip: have a large tin or jar handy to keep the rest in. Takes up less shelf space than the massive tin it comes in.
If it’s the same Argos DFF I bought a few months back, the whole tin goes in.
Is there a 'best' way to agitate the chain to get maximum wax in there?
Just dunking it in and out seems a bit aimless.
Could I try and perch the fryer full of hot wax on top of an ultrasonic parts cleaner? 😎
Thanks All,
I look forward to my putoline enhanced future!
🙂
ff29
I look forward to my putoline enhanced future!
🙂
And what a future that will be!! Since becoming a convert my life has changed immeasurably! I've gone from being billy no mates to getting invited to all the cool lockdown parties, women throw themselves at my feet and beg to have my babies, I play along but don't tell them I had the snip years ago. Life is wonderful!!.....
Sorry, the pain killers have just kicked in 🙂
So, I went all-in on the Putoline a few weeks ago (bought a dff and did 7 chains).
I've only ridden the road bike since, but after just 4 rides the chain is feeling a bit "squeaky" and is looking like a furry, black thing. It looks like there might have been an excess of wax on the outside of the chain plates.
That said, the roads are in an awful state, and no conventional lube would have lasted this far.
Wondering if I need to tweak my dipping technique. Maybe have the wax hotter so more runs off the plates?
Wondering if I need to tweak my dipping technique. Maybe have the wax hotter so more runs off the plates?
I reckon heating the wax as hot as is safe (I think I've taken it to 180C) whilst dunking and agitating the chain, but then letting it cool gradually before removing the chain, I find after turning off the DFF it takes half an hour for the wax to cool enough that I can still lift chain out.
This way, you end up with a lot more semi-solid wax on the outer plates, but (in theory) a lot more still inside the rollers where it should be. You can then wipe as much of the wax off the outer plates as you wish, I find one muddy wet ride usually sees off the worst of it anyway and subsequent wipe downs with a GT85-y rag cleans up the rest.
My first Putoline treatment lasted 510km of mixed road and gravel riding. Yesterday's commute was accompanied by much squeaking and dry sounding chain noise like an ASDA BSO after a couple of months neglect.
Cycling through flooded roads last Friday probably didn't help longevity but I'm pleased with it's resilience.
I use 120C for the wax heat in the fryer and immerse for 8 minutes. Lift out while warm and hang up with a quick wipedown to remove the worst while it's all runny. Back to peace and quiet today after a treatment last night.
Thanks for the tips.
Do you bother cleaning the chain before re-dipping?
Cheers
I stripped mine for the first treatment by immersing it in degreaser for a couple of hours. Rinsed it clean and then dipped in the wax as above.
Second time just off the bike and into the wax.
Depending how dirty my chain is I may soak in degreaser, wipe clean leave to dry, then dunk in outline.
If it's cleanish but just getting a bit dry then I don't bother and just dunk straight in.
although I'm not getting herculean times before reapplication quoted by some, overall I'm very happy with the performance Vs faff. Way better than wet lube and way better than homebrew wax (in the winter at least - summer homebrew wax is better I think)
I don't clean it first no. It's not usually dirty, as I wash the chain out with a hose after the ride. The best thing about this stuff is that I can do that and it doesn't wash lube away, just grit.
I just chuck the chain in. If it's muddy after an MTB ride I may be generous and either hose it down or wipe any excess mud off but I certainly don't clean the chain. Just dunk it in the black gloop. If it's wet it bubbles away for several minutes. When it stops bubbling I take it out.
IANALube-ologist
Had the shortest lifespan of a treatment to date- two rides. That’s nearly 70 miles in absolutely appalling conditions though. Whole drivetrain clagged up with mud, plenty of deep puddles sort of thing. I could probably squeak another ride out of mine but my other half’s definitely past it.
I had a longer run pre Christmas in wetter conditions but that involved more sandy riding- working theory is that wet, sandy water just runs off while heavier, stickier mud builds up and pushes its way into the chain.
Fryer has definitely made it easier than doing it on a stove.
I think I am about 6 months in now of seeing the light of Putoline.
In really wet and muddy weather/rides, I definitely need to re-fry after about 100km, and do a quick run through a GT85'd rag after hosing down the bike in between.
The greatest benefit on those rides is... silence. None of the grinding/graunching noises of the past. just smooth shifting.
I almost lost the faith recently as I was having to reapply more frequently, rusty chains and only getting 1 or 2 rides, but I learned: I had the DFF too hot (indicated at 190c). Wax was maybe too thin? I don't know the exact dynamics of why, but now its down at an indicated 140c and I am much happier with the longevity and positive effect again.
That’s interesting, i also use 140c, your experience at temperature mirrors mine.
I almost lost the faith recently as I was having to reapply more frequently, rusty chains and only getting 1 or 2 rides, but I learned
Two rides is better than about 0.2 of a ride which is what I used to see in such conditions, of course.
I have been using hotter temps in the name of cleanliness, so perhaps I'll try again with cooler. Maybe hotter temps for summer and cooler for winter? There's a thought.
I think if it's hotter then more runs out as you let it drip.
I'm at 130, leave the chain horizontal in the basket for a bit to start to solidify the wax inside before holding it up to then wipe the soft but not runny wax off the outside plates. Having to re-wax every 4-5 wet muddy rides atm ~70 miles and doing the gt85 wipe to slow down rust.
I've been a big fan of squirt lube for years. I never have dry sounding chains or longevity issues, it's really really good stuff. The only downside is that I have to wipe down and reapply it after every ride and that starts to cost a fair bit ££.
I'm going to give putoline a shot if it means I can save a few quite and not have to reapply after each ride.
I do ride about 1,400km a month at the moment. Mostly on wet roads at this time of year though. I don't really ride MTB when it's super muddy. Roll on dusty trails....
Question - would there be any issues with topping it up with squirt once in a while? I can just see me neededing to give it another dunk in putoline but wanting to squeeze an extra ride or two in first.
I’ve topped up with a spray of something or other, I certainly didn’t notice any ill effects.
(Gt85, wd40, ep90 oil)
Used sparingly, it shouldn’t need a lot.
So after several years of Squirt and Smoove, this winter's appalling conditions on the Surry Hills have forced me to resort to drastic measures.
The tin of Putoline arrived, so I'll clean the current fatbike chain tonight and Putoline it on the camping gas stove tomorrow. If it seems good then I'll invest in an Argos DFF.
Any tips for a first time user?
Wipe the excess off the chain when you lift it out of the wax. Do it before it’s completely cold.
Any tips for a first time user?
Don't take the chain out of the hot bath ,hang it up to dry and use your fingers to wipe off the excess. It's a bit hot!!
these reports seems to be what I get from my routine of Viking juice before I have to re-apply. Last ride in almost constant puddles and loose mud (20 miles each way along the TPT) wasn’t noisy but needed reapplication after a hose down (normal for any dropper application )
I did think you’d all be getting better mileage than you’re all reporting, although presumably you’re not having to reapply after nearly every clean like I am
I did see a youtube video from a chap who took his chain out of the hot wax and immediately submerged it in cold water to make the wax go hard in order to stop it dripping out of the rollers. I can see the logic, might give it a shot.
Question – would there be any issues with topping it up with squirt once in a while?
No, I made one application last all summer with just two re-applications of a light oil (Shimano wet in this case) which seemed to make it re-flow. I'd probably use oil again rather than squirt.
I did see a youtube video from a chap who took his chain out of the hot wax and immediately submerged it in cold water to make the wax go hard in order to stop it dripping out of the rollers. I can see the logic, might give it a shot.
Hmm... sounds a lot messier than just gradually reducing the temp of the DFF until the wax is too cool to run off?
Admittedly this leaves you with a lot of surface wax but in wet muddy conditions this barely lasts on ride! Wiping down with GT85 on a rag seems to remove the rest of it, I certainly don't end up with accumulations building anywhere.
I do one ride then wipe it with WD40 a second time which removes any excess that's worked its way out of the chain. From then on it stays clean on its own.
One tin of Putoline and a 1l deep fat fryer ordered. I have a new chain coming for the road bike too, so I’ll be giving it a try in the next few weeks.
As a recent convert to the big P, I found I wasn't too impressed after the first application, but then after the second 'dipping' it seemed to take better.
Might be my technique improved, or maybe it takes a couple of applications to really get into the links.
Don't make the DFF too hot, 120c is all you need. Making it too hot just means a thinner application due to it running off the hot chain.
The chain is ready when the air bubbles stop coming up, I usually turn off the DFF when the bubbles stop and let the chain sit with the lid up for maybe 10/20 mins before bringing the basket up and letting it drain a bit before taking it out to cool slightly, then wipe it down.
On my all weather bike (the one that doesn't get cleaned as much), I tend to leave the chain in the cooling wax longer and don't wipe it down (still let it drain though) so that there is more wax on the outside of the chain, that way after a wet ride, I can just put it away without worrying to much about it going rusty or getting stiff links.
It's always better having a rotation of chains, so that the freshly waxed one is just ready to go on and you can wax the one thats just come off whenever you have time.
A DFF is better than a pan (I started with a pan too) as any dirt on the chain just falls through the basket to the bottom and doesn't get back on the chain like it does in a pan.
I am getting between 300-1000 miles on a chain, obviously depending on conditions.
I did get 1500 miles out of the road bike chain because I forgot to check when I last did it, but it didn't sound like it needed done, plus it only really got used in the dry.
I have a poor commuting bike that sits out in the garden in all weathers, its not been used that much over the last year, but the chain is as smooth as when I first waxed it, can't say that for the gear and brake cables though!
FWIW my Putoline experience has been a bit trial and error but it is very very good. I'm a novice bike mechanic so please excuse my stating the obvious in any of my experiences below.
Initially I Puto'd a new but thoroughly degreased chain (degreasing process was petrol 8hrs, degreaser couple of hrs, methswas a few times - till it was clear basically - I know plenty of people will say no need to degrease a new chain but that's what I did in case the factory grease stopped the Putoline sticking. Yes, yes osmosis/capillary action, but the factory grease is designed not to come off I was told so I figured I'd help it along). My chain was therefore pristine when I started.
I bathed it in in the Puto, probably too hot as I had it up to 160c in the DFF, and didn't wipe any excess off. After every ride I washed the bike and in most cases I dried the chain with compressed air and sprayed it with GT85. The jockey wheels, and the chain ring to a degree, were pretty gunked up with excess Puto and I had to scrape/wipe them clean regularly. After a month of riding exclusively on gravel type trails with a few muddy puddles and the odd bit of 6 inch deep mud I started to notice rust appearing on the inside of the links and on the cassette after I had washed/dried. I concluded that I had basically washed most of the Puto out with excessive GT85 application - the chain wasn't noisy though.
I Puto'd my original chain and this time I wiped the excess off the outside of the chain while it was still hot. Although I was cleaning the bike regularly I just wiped the chain with a cloth impregnated with a bit of GT85/MucOff equivalent. No rust and no gunk build up on the jockey wheels. This chain lasted about 350 miles of winter riding (same conditions as above - wet trails etc) and then all of a sudden I heard noises like a grinding bearing - turns out it was the chain. Quick swap back to the other one I had standing by ready, and good to go again. The second chain I wiped after its Puto bath and I'll see how it goes...
I have checked the wear on the first chain and it's still at .5 after about 400 eBike miles - not sure if that's good or not as I haven't got 10000's of miles of chain wear to compare it to.
Observations:
Small DFF is best as the chain can sit in the basket and be retrieved easily - slow cooker is a no as it takes hours to heat up.
Not too hot 120c -140c
Keep 2 chains on the go so it's a quick process to swap to a fresh one.
It's much better/easier/cheaper than making your own wax (I tried this and it was great in the dry but no good in the wet)
It's better than any other bottled lubes I tried as they need reapplying basically after every ride and they attract all sorts of dirt so you have to clean the chain too. Putoline seems to actually keep the chain and cassette clean.
Anyway - that's my experience if it helps anyone make a decision. 👍
Having read a lot of this thread, is there actually a consensus on whether a new chain can go straight in the DFF or does it need cleaning?
I put my last one straight in. My next one might get a little degrease as an experiment with some panel wipe
Two different chains on two different bikes
This isn't really a question on putoline but asking as having to take my chain off to lube is causing the question. Does it matter ifthe chain goes on a different way up? Like the side of the chain that touches the cogs then next time it's the other side as there's no markings on the chain depicting this
Perhaps it even decreases cog wear, or the opposite? Thoughts?
Sram nx if that's important
Important but not vital I'd say. There are actually 4 different orientations, not just two - same way up but run it 'in reverse' and then flip the chain over to use the other side. Of course whichever way you have it some of the wear is evened up by the derailleur jockey wheels that are designed to touch both sides but I don't think that has as much effect as some others might say.
It's also why I really don't recommend 32:16 for single speeds, with the two being such a close factor of each other, at the points in the pedal stroke where you put most power on (particularly going up hill at low revs) you are using exactly the same bit of the rear cog. if you consider where your right foot is full power to the chain at the '2 o'clock' position, call that tooth zero. When the left foot is at the same position half a rev later - tooth 16!! On the rear it's doing a rev each time and EXACTLY THE SAME teeth are engaged. Other teeth are barely used under load.
I know 32:16 is 'the law' but honestly it's madness. This is why I'd only use prime numbered cogs, 17 or 19 and adjust the front accordingly, 32:17 or 34:19. I'd ideally have preferred an odd numbered front cog too, but could never find a NW 33 or 35.
...but could never find a NW 33 or 35.
There's a good reason for that, if you think about it! 😉
someone did explain it but the maths got quite complex iirc
/2 complex?! 🙂
I didn't say too complex, just quite. It was all to do with the chain plate sizing and relative proportions to the respective size of the teeth on a NW which leads to incorrect meshing but that's a whole different kettle of fish and irrelevant to the putoline chain orientation question, suffice to say no-one makes 33 or 35T NW chainrings 'for technical reasons'.
Mate if you have an odd number of teeth it would go narrow wide narrow wide narrow wide narrow narrow wide...
Yes, but the narrow will work in both inner and outer plates. As long as it doesn't go narrow wide narrow wide narrow wide narrow wide wide