I experienced this yesterday morning, not for the first time but this was particularly upsetting because of the conversation I ended up having with the driver at the lights he then got held up at.
What I find hard is a combination of the sense of injustice and lack of redress combined with the sense of degredation that someone who hates you that much to willfully put your life at risk.
I imagine it's what being on the end of a racist attack might feel like.
Yesterday's experience was unfortunate in that we ended up at the lights together. I wasn't confrontational but he certainly was. I asked if he did it deliberately and he snidely laughed and said he did. I asked if he had kids (turns out he did) and explained that all I wanted was to be able to go home to them at the end of the day.
His explanation for why he did it was because I was 'all over the road', which of course I wasn't. I had adjusted my position becausae the left side of the road cuts in sharply and you know full well that motorists aren't going to adjust their line so as not to collide with you, so for a short period I was quite a way out from the kerb, so that I was in the correct position once the road had narrowed and yes, the guy couldn't pass for about 50m. But even when he did, he still got caught at the lights.
Honestly it left me feeling really down. So, apart from having a headcam, what can you actually do?
nothing, let it go and enjoy riding - you will be miserable with a head cam.
Call the police when stood next to the. And read the registration to them.
drag him from his coffin and hoof him in the slats.......
thats the response you wanted right ?
thats the response you wanted right ?
No far from it. It's a real problem. There must be something that can be done that isn't neanderthal.
Tricky one. First thought is report to the police. If they get enough of this sort of thing for the same driver or the same stretch of road they might actually do something. Or as above, forget it. There will always be idiots. I know I occasionally get into a minor altercation, even if it is just muttering under my breath after they've gone or thinking of what I could've done at the time. Always makes me a feel a bit rubbish and has no impact on them.
What bothers me most about the 'forget it and carry on' response, not that I am dismissing the suggestion, is that if this were something like racist or sexist abuse being thrown at you, there is no way we would allow that or suggest that we just ignore it as a society.
I don't think punishment passes are any different.
commuting i wear a road hawk , got fed up of the same ****s doing the same things day in day out - folks on here say its placebo effect but i never had a single recordable since i fitted it in a prominent position -
recreation i choose quiet roads.
Mankind mostly don't deserve the air they breathe. People don't really think through consequences (not that there are any for wilfully killing cyclists as we know).
Option 1) start travelling armed and go for the "Falling down" vengeance approach, it'll probably be a week or 2 till you get caught.
Option 2) Suck it up and realise that people really aren't all that nice.
Yeah, if you were coming here for cheering up then you ain't getting it from me.
Pity them because theyre stuck in a car and smile because you're on a bike. That's about all.
You're piece about getting back to your kids was good. Got to find common ground and allow these morons to realise they're being ****wits as they won't be told for sure.
Other than report it (right there and then while standing in front of his car and saying "yes, I think I smell alcohol on his breath too" 😈 )* there's not much you can do.
I went through a phase a year or so back when I got totally fed up with it, and due to some other things going on at home I was also a bit shouty when I managed to catch up with people, I can honestly say that the best thing I've learned to do is let it go.
Obviously I'll still report things if it's properly dangerous, but I try to just ride as safely as I can and not let it get me down.
*no of course I don't condone lying like this
I went through a phase a year or so back when I got totally fed up with it, and due to some other things going on at home I was also a bit shouty when I managed to catch up with people, I can honestly say that the best thing I've learned to do is let it go.
Hugs pal. That resonates a little more than is comfortable.
Realistically there are a few options, but I am not sure any of them are particularly helpful...
1) Do nothing. Try & not let it bother you. I don't know how you do this.
2) Report to the Police. They might take action, they might not. A headcam could possibly help if you end up speaking to the driver and he makes some kind of threat or admits to doing it on purpose. There was a solicitor a while back who got a bloke on camera saying that he'd kill him next time (or words to that effect) and he got him done for it.
3) Get confrontational/physical. Not sure it helps in the long run & can get you into far more trouble than the original perpetrator. Might make someone thing twice about doing it again, but will probably make them hate cyclists even more.
3) Get confrontational/physical. Not sure it helps in the long run & can get you into far more trouble than the original perpetrator. Might make someone thing twice about doing it again, but will probably make them hate cyclists even more.
With cleated shoes on and a bike to manage, that's a very risky proposition. And as you say, nothing good will come of it even if you did win the fight.
Call it in and report it. Exactly as you have here. Yes, you did move out in advance but did so to avoid an issue further ahead; I've done the same before and will do again as it's the safest manoeuvre whether vanman behind thinks it is or not.
Unlikely they can do anything, be honest with them that it's your word against his but particularly given his lack of remorse / don't care attitude, seems like the type who's done it before and will do it again, so maybe if we all report them every time, then enough of a picture emerges that they might just be able to act on it.
If i see a cyclist that's 'all over the road' I'd take special care to pass even wider, just in case, surely?
Try to get the law changed to have presumed liability for motorists?
Greg, if it was in Sussex then you can use the [url= http://www.operationcrackdown.org/ ]Operation Crackdown[/url] website to report it. I had to report a marked patrol car which executed a really shit overtake a couple of months back!
Nothing will necessarily happen, but it's a record, and if the guy has a number of 'strikes' then it's far more likely they'll take action.
Small bottle of car brake fluid strapped to your stem. Quick squirt on his passenger door as you chat..he'll soon realise what you were up to...
DrP
I asked if he had kids (turns out he did) and explained that all I wanted was to be able to go home to them at the end of the day.
You pretty much did everything you can do. The guy will have been all puffed up with adrenaline and testosterone, so there's no way you were going to get him to back down and apologise there and then. But hopefully you made him feel like a bit of a **** inside, and he might think twice before being a dick to the next rider. Well done.
you found a ***t, it's not hard, but it's always unpleasant.
i reckon you handled the situation very well, maybe a little spark of compassion may twinkle in his tiny brain the next time he thinks about throwing his weight around.
Trouble is, if you let it go, it becomes 'acceptable'. And then if a driver misjudges his/her punishment slightly, it's game over for you.
Moving over slightly is you saying you took Primary? What else are you supposed to do. It's defensive riding to avoid being squeezed by someone with poor judgement.
If it winds you up enough (and it should), the only really active option is to record and report it to the Police. There's a risk you'll become one of those shouty tossers always looking for conflict to record but you come across on here as pretty level headed so you might just avoid that.
The other options are all a bit passive and unsatisfactory.
[probably pointless personal campaign]I always refer to it as a
"cowards pass aka punishment pass" in the hope it comes into common use [/probably pointless personal campaign]
as to this incident - the world is full of idiot ****s with bad attitudes and dangerous driving habits a lot of them shouldn't be let out in a car - nothing you personally can do, social pressure to change attitude to car use is what is needed and anyway you caught him at the lights so he wasted his skills
ooh tw t is in the swear filter?!
Hugs pal. That resonates a little more than is comfortable.
Do not under-estimate how your own mental state can impact things like this, both your sensitivity to them and how you deal with them. Even your little internet man-hug there has just made some memories surface that have made my lip wobble and a whole load of dust miraculously find it's way into my eye.
I hope whatever it is you're dealing with comes to a positive conclusion for you but to pass on a bit of advice, the single most useful thing anyone has ever said to me (and I think it was on here) for dealing with situations like this, and it's applicable to life in general as well, is:
"[i][b]we shall not allow these people to pollute our minds with anger[/b][/i]"
reporting things like this is important, having the (calm) discussions with them is also important, but above all do not let [i]their [/i]anger become [i]your[/i] anger.
Ive taken to wobbling a bit if i suspect the car/van/lorry is about to do something stupid. Just an exagerated weave around a pothole or overbanding when i hear them shift down while aproaching a traffic island or suchlike to make them think twice. Seems to work and avoids the potential confrontation and makes them consider their own actions first so they might just remember it next time they come up behind a cyclist.
Wear a T-shirt prominently advertising kick-boxing lessons?
I also think you did all you can do. he may be confrontional at the time (most people get defensive) but if you're calm, he may at least think about it afterwards and change his mind.
If he doesn't change his mind, he's a see-you-next-tuesday and nothing would make a difference.
I find cameras are a faff to use every day, unless you've got one of those rear light ones http://cycliq.com/product/fly6)?
just get the camera phone out and take a pic or video,i did to a taxi driver last year, he screame what you taking my picture for, i explained for my web site.wwwfatbastardsdrivingtaxis.con, he even asked me to spell it for him.
Or you could shout, possible drink or drugged driver here please avoid him, driver then has to prove he isnt drunk or drugged.
Open the rear passenger door as you go past at the lights 😀
congratulations on showing restraint. I could let the punishment pass go, but the snidey laugh and his response may have sent me into a rage resulting in some kind of violence inflicted towards his car...*
You are clearly a better man than I!
*this obviously depends on how hard he looked.....
*this obviously depends on how hard he looked.....
Last person I had pass stupidly close was clearly looking for a fight. He's stopped just at the top of the road I lived in. All I did was look him in the eye as I cycled past slowly before turning, then he started shouting clearly looking for grief. He said "You got something to say?" I just replied with "You didn't see me then?" he kept going, I cycled on home.
Last time his car was in the same spot (over the weekend) there was also a police car and van parked close to the same corner. I'm assuming his presence had something to do with it, glad I left it alone to be honest.
Moving over slightly is you saying you took Primary? What else are you supposed to do.
It's absolutely the right thing to do.
The challenge is 99.9999999999% of drivers think that legally we should only ride in the gutter.
wot tpbiker said.
dont think i would have held it together that well.
Quite simple really, I don't negotiate with terrorists. Ignore it and carry on your ride, perhaps a little more defensively than before.
Check this site out...
http://www.nearmiss.bike/
Laudable aim - hope it provides some reasonable data which is instructive to cyclists as well as drivers/local authorities etc. The first clip in their example video shows someone nearly getting left hooked by a non-indicating driver after filtering up the inside on the zigzags of a pedestrian crossing.
OP - I think the only positive action you can take is to report to police. The problem is that this feels pretty ineffectual when all you want to do is smash their wing mirror off.
Seemed you handled it pretty well but there isnt much else we can do.
I used to go apesh1t on them (doors/mirrors have been damaged) but nothing ever changed, now I just try to ignore them but its very hard, I often just give a slow shake of the head and a sad face now.
I hate drivers that do this and I wish them all a slow painful death.
Probably just emphasising the above but report it. I have reported a couple of drivers. The police in Newcastle take it seriously. The last one they paid the guy a visit which was probabyl rather embarrasing for him as he looked (apart from trying to kill me) as an otherwise normal person and I'm sure his wife and kids did wonder why he was being questioned by the police.
They now also have it on record. Without a witness or video (they recommended I get one) they can do little. But if it happens again then he will have previous and will probably be arrested.
I've often fantasised about these.. [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/ResQMe-Escape-Tool-Clip-Black/dp/B000IE0EZO ]http://www.amazon.co.uk/ResQMe-Escape-Tool-Clip-Black/dp/B000IE0EZO[/url]
Doubt I'd ever be brave/stupid enough to use it though.
I've just started commuting again after stopping in Jan because i just couldn't be bothered with this sort of stuff anymore. I can get angry really easily, I try to reign it in but i just loose it and get shouty, i've always been like this. I hate it though, it just ruins my day. I used to love cycling into work, but at the moment i'm just not feeling it. now the weather is better i'm trying to get back into it but it's hard when nobbers do this sort of thing.
I had it this morning going round a roundabout, primary position, then indicate to turn off and a wagon behind me floored it past me on the exit. Why he couldn't wait a few more seconds I have no idea. Really pisses me off, cos it's ruining a big part of my life and my fitness is suffering because of it. I don't get the chance to MTB as much as I used to, so commuting is my only real source of exercise.
Idiots piss me off. Sorry rant over....... 😀
This is why I gave up road riding and only ride MTB off road or on minor roads and use the turbo instead.
I wonder what the punishment pass rate is like in US states where concealed carry of a firearm is allowed?
I wonder what the punishment pass rate is like in US states where concealed carry of a firearm is allowed?
They dont do punishment pass, they just run you down. Your 'supposed' to cycle in the margin (gutter) on main roads in the US.
Anyway, the whole point/benefit of taking the 'primary' position is it gives you space to move over if a cars tries a 'punishment pass', you can typically hear when they are coming so a quick glance over the shoulder will tell you they arnt leaving space, use the space youve made and move across at the right moment to make sure they dont clip you with a mirror.
They will end up picking on the wrong person and regretting it.
Pointing out why you were in that position on the road in a polite manner may or may not help. They may understand next time or they may take massive offence and it'll escalate. Not good when you probably share the road with them every morning.
At the end of a club run I was cycling with a guy and there were two others a good bit in front, we saw the car deliberately getting close to them as they were cycling two abreast (one in the cycle lane and one on the line) on an otherwise empty road. They all got stopped at a level crossing, one of our riders was lent against the car door to stop the driver getting out and a lot of angry words were being said. I rode up thinking it was going to end with a fight but the other rider with me calmly rode up to the door, announced that he was a police officer and had seen the whole thing and to expect a visit from his colleagues. The guy in the car went very quiet very quick and the whole thing calmed down. Not a bad way to defuse it but not guaranteed to work either!
announced that he was a police officer
was he, or was he bluffing?
I witnessed my first one of these yesterday evening (see my post history)
I'd have not noticed it except for the fact the van was traveling way too close to the curb for seemingly no reason & the driver wasn't looking where he was going as he was focusing on his mirror. it was only when he passed me I spotted the cyclist who was clearly less then happy.
I dislike the term Punishment Pass, it kind of softens it. A driver deliberately tried to hit me with his vehicle is factually more actuate and sounds as dangerous as it really is.
Being on the receiving end of any road rage - being a pedestrian, cyclist or motorist makes you feel like this.
We had a tit the other day in a badly lowered bmw who tried to intimidate us in our 4x4 after I beeped him for cutting us up. He was doing sillier and sillier manoeuvres and the end result was a stupid act of desperation on his part which was basically a punishment pass fuelled by red mist. If I had backed down we, being in a 4x4, would have been in a very risky situation where he could have slammed on his brakes making us swerve off the road or hit him at high closing speed so my only choice was to hold my ground and sit with a matter of inches between us as I was reading the situation around and knew he was about to get into into a very bad situation for himself forcing him to give up and foxtrot oscar out of there, probably with the chav girlfriend in the passenger seat screaming at him.
Had the OH and dog not been in the car I honestly could have ended it a very different way with the position he put himself in. But that is easy to say/do in a big metal box. When it happens to you when on the bike or on foot then it is very different experience that makes you feel even more violated.
Then the added frustration is that there is nothing you can do to make this person get their comeuppance.
I dislike the term Punishment Pass, it kind of softens it. A driver deliberately tried to hit me with his vehicle is factually more actuate and sounds as dangerous as it really is.
^ This
the OH admitted that had she been driving she would not have had the reactions to avoid hitting the bmw when it pulled in front of us. We honestly felt it was a deliberate attempt to cause a crash.
I dislike the term Punishment Pass, it kind of softens it. A driver deliberately tried to hit me with his vehicle is factually more actuate and sounds as dangerous as it really is.
I don't mind the term, it captures the vindictive attitude some drivers have.
It's more like firing a gun next to someone to scare them than actually aiming at them, eh? Shame it's not treated the same as that by the authorities.
A few years back I had a driver do this to me one afternoon on the A2 at Bromley. There was no reason for him to do this to me, he simply pulled alongside and got way to close, close enough for me to thump on his window and shout "You're too close!".
Sure enough, he ended up in stationary traffic a couple of hundred yards further on. I asked him what he thought he was doing, and he threatened to kill me.
Now, I did something very silly indeed. I challenged him back and asked him to step out of his car and make good on his threat. I'm a big bloke, but I am by no means a fighter, but the bluff was enough for him to remain sat inside his car, lock the doors and mouth off at me. In the end I calmed down enough to point and laugh at him for driving a Nissan Almera, but there's no winners in a shouting contest in the street.
It could so easily have gone differently.
I bought myself a bullet cam and had a long think about how I handled the situation. There have been several subsequent occasions when drivers have passed me at a pinch point and nearly knocked me off. On those occasions, I made a conscious effort to remain calm and assertive, to explain why their driving was unsafe and as someone else has already done - ask them if they realise that they nearly orphaned my kids. All you can ask for is an apology in acknowledgement and hopefully they'll not repeat the mistake. Once I learned to accept this, I received an apology on each and every occasion I caught up with a driver who'd been responsible for a near miss on me.
You'll always get arseholes who feel a psychological need to project their power on you when they're sat in two tonnes of metal. Don't play their game.
[i]His explanation for why he did it was because I was 'all over the road', which of course I wasn't.[/i]
they always have some bloody excuse or justification for it.
But what it comes down to is that they are a effing prick.
Just call em a effing prick. Worked for me in making me feel better.
(Over 600 views on that video now.)
Well I don't know about anyone else, but I feel a lot better for having shared and read other people's responses.
The confrontation thing, hmmm, I reached the level of 3rd dan black belt back in 2003 but since then I haven't trained, I've broken my arm and collar bones several times and I've lost quite a lot of upper body strength. I still know in my head what to do, but I don't have the confidence that it would be effective. Once or twice I've been called out for a confrontation and this, combined with a) being on a bike and b) being in cleated shoes (your ability to move out of the way of an attack quickly is 70% of not getting hit in the first place) mean that I've had to consciously teach myself a different response.
The 'have you got kids, because I do and I love them more than anything and just want to go home to them of an evening', was how I got my head round the desire to be angry, aggressive and confrontational. But it's not easy. I have to really work at it to maintain control and with adrenaline pumping that's not easy.
A lot of cars just pass too close without it being a 'punishment pass'. I always try to talk nicely to the drivers if I can and just explain, very politely and respectfully that they were just too close, that they need to give the same amount of room as a small car and most of the time, we always part on very friendly terms and I feel that a great outcome.
The punishment pass is different though. On wearing a helmet cam, I think if anything it will help to keep me calm. It will give me assurance that I have evidence to back me up, that I have something to give to the police even if they can't do anything and it also means I'll be more aware of my behaviour, i.e. if I know I'm being recorded and that the footage is there to back me up, I know I need to behave more reasonably.
One last thing. Last summer a guy I subsequently caught up did a really silly manouvere to avoid waiting in line to turn right. At the lights, with his window down, I simply said 'you know I saw what you did and that was really daft'. The guy tensed, then paused and said 'I'm really sorry it was. I've just had a terrible day at work and not enough sleep'. I shook that guys hand and said I thought he was a better man than most for that reaction and he should feel very proud of himself.
[possibly pointless personal campaign]
chakaping - Member
I dislike the term Punishment Pass, it kind of softens it. A driver deliberately tried to hit me with his vehicle is factually more actuate and sounds as dangerous as it really is.
I don't mind the term, it captures the vindictive attitude some drivers have.
would like to change the term - as said above (by me) ^^^ "coward's pass" get it labelled that [/possibly pointless personal campaign]
Was reading this with interest this morning as i live rural and never rely had this issue, some cars will always pass too close but that will never change.
Low and behold on my way back to work after lunch i got run off the road by a HGV. I met him head on on a twisty single track road. When i first came into his vision he was at a passing place but he horsed on until he forced me onto the grass blasting his horn as he went past.
All happened so fast I didn't relay have time to get any vehicle details although i have a fair idea who it was but I am not relay the confrontational type so will probably just let it go .
I think even considering getting into fisticuffs is bloody silly. You're simply making a bad situation worse and any sense of being the aggrieved, quickly changes.
Talking to people is often pointless as the default reaction is defensiveness which manifests itself as more aggression.
You're much better off keeping a good record (camera) and badgering the life out of the professionals to do something about it. Channel your energy into being a pain in the arse to the local Chief Constibule rather than getting beaten or stabbed by some ne'er do well.
I think even considering getting into fisticuffs is bloody silly.
True but I don't think consideration has much to do with it. It's more likely the product of an autonomic response. Levels of testosterone vary greatly and has a big impact on your instinctive reaction.
@gt1972 Sorry, I meant in this discussion. I've never been in any physical confrontation in my life, in training or otherwise and I got very close to fighting with someone last year. It was bloody silly; middle aged IT professional fights OAP nonsense (he was a big bugger mind 😉 ).
Never again. You hear so many tales of 'one punch and he banged his head' deaths. It really is not worth it. If we can't exercise control over ourselves, how can we expect others to do the same?
<edit> on that video there, I was thinking about a spring loaded centre punch. It's amazing how less aggressive people can become when there's no glass...
Three things need to happen to make the roads safe enough for me ride on them....
1. The stress needs to be take out of driving. Car drivers are already trying to kill each other never mind cyclists.
2. Car drivers need to learn how cyclists ride and why.
3. Enforcement for bad driving must stop focussing purely on speed and consider all forms of dangerous driving. And be properly enforced, not via points or fines.
1 ain't going happen - too many factors involved.
2 could be done, but even starting now in tests leaves lots of already qualified drivers ignorant.
3 doesn't generate revenue / win votes so isn't going to happen.
So I guess I'm staying off the roads then!
laugh at him for driving a Nissan Almera
Chain cam, economical, reasonable insurance what's not to like?
And that's why it's call the life saver look.......
The changing peoples behaviour thing won't work. The Dutch just separate cars from bikes and pedestrians, by and large it works well and there are a lot less opportunities for aggressive, thoughtless or incompetent drivers to kill and injure cyclists and pedestrians. This thread has been great for highlighting the ways of dealing with aggressive driving, but the long term solution is Dutch style segregated high quality infrastructure. It will benefit everyone.
The Dutch just separate cars from bikes and pedestrians
...or that. But I'm not holding my breath on that either.
GT1972 - by "talking" to him at the lights you probably had exactly the effect he desired. He's probably on Facebook right now telling his mates how he really wound up a cyclists.
Many years ago I used to chase after and talk to drivers. I ended up stopping cycling. Then I took up MTB and had loads of fun in the peace and quiet, and since then have gone back to the road but avoid busy places where I can and try to remember that I am riding for fun not an argument.
The changing peoples behaviour thing won't work.
We did it with racism and homophobia not to mention attitudes towards drink driving. I honestly don't see this as being too dissimilar. The mechanism of change is the same. You make people very aware of the problem while at the same time sending a very clear message that that kind of behaviour/attitude/belief is just not acceptable. This makes that thing become socially unacceptable which in turn forces people to review their beliefs. Most/many will change as a result. You will always get the die hard minority but your strategy for them is to marginalise them. This is exactly what has happened with people who express racists and/or homophobic beliefs.
Having thought about this a bit more, screw punishment pass and cowards pass, it's a hit and run or at least an attempted hit and run
Not in Amsterdam, they don't - it's utter chaosThe changing peoples behaviour thing won't work. The Dutch just separate cars from bikes and pedestrians
I see that as a good thing though; saw no aggression while I was there recently, just lots of slow driving/cycling/walking and careful looking around, apparently by everyone
I commuted for the first time since Jan yesterday, combination of reasons due to working all over and family stuff, 3 incidents ranging from dangerous pass (on the hospital campus too, on a bend) to driver turning left across me. Made me wonder if it's worth it, driver's minds on other things, not aware of all road users and as the OP said, I want to get home to my family each day. Very rarely get these issues on a weekend ride, predominantly commuting. I've a short temper too, so usually mouth off, a couple of times they've had their windows down and have stopped to remonstrate, clearly I should ride on but how does the message get across they're being dangerous in their driving?
Go Pro and then a call to the Police?
I think even considering getting into fisticuffs is bloody silly. You're simply making a bad situation worse and any sense of being the aggrieved, quickly changes.
That depends, the worst injuries I've seen happen to people are when they've tried to stay calm and talk the other person down and then they've been bottled/sucker punched by the aggressor.
If someone gets out their car and threatens you, scream at them to back off and leave your personal space - then try to extricate yourself - if you can't and they don't back off - do whatever's necessary to make sure they can't hurt you. Going to magistrates court to prove self defense is better than ending up in a coma, people are unpredictable and one swing from a big bloke could potentially end your life.
And when I mean scream, I mean abusing Basra POW's type screaming like this - if you launch into a tirade like that asking someone to back off - most people will get the willies and leave. It also alerts witnesses to the incident.
Christ Tom, not sure where you live but it ain't Basra like round 'ere. I get your point but it's best not to get into a situation where you need to use volume to defend yourself.
Avoidance is the best policy.
Is it worth mentioning that these;
[img] 
[/img]
Go for very cheap on ebay?
I fell out with a long term friend after the conversation turned to how dangerous it was to cycle on the roads and him smugly telling me about the [s]punishment[/s] cowards pass he'd recently performed on a cyclist he deemed was riding unsafely.
Figure out that logic:
- riding your bike on the road is dangerous,
- that cyclist has just done something stupid putting himself at risk
- therefore I'm going to to teach him a lesson by passing far too closely.
He didn't appreciate me pointing out how much of a t**t he'd made himself look.
As a consolation I remind myself he's fat, miserable, dangerously unfit and hasn't had a girlfriend in 20 years.
Its amazing the number of people I consider friends, who know I cycle and yet are happy to complain about cyclists to me & how they feel like doing something to them.
Ive stopped associating with a couple of them because of their comments.
Riding primary helps prevent a punishment pass in the first place, and helps give you somewhere to go if someone does try it...
There's a stretch of road in SE London I ride which is 20mph limit, pedestrian refuges and speed cushions all down it - presumably because it's straight and fairly wide so v tempting to speed down it, despite it being residential.
I often have drivers trying to push past which would mean coming way to close to me so I just ride properly primary and give lots of looks back to remind them I'm a human. Sure I get leaning on the horn and some abuse when there's space to pass further down (despite the fact they have to break the 20mph limit to do so) but as I don't leave space for a punishment pass, it doesn't happen... and overall I feel far more in control and therefore it's less stressful.
From what you've said OP, going primary earlier on and before the road narrowed would have helped this. I also find a lifesaver or signal before moving into primary can help too
Brooes I was in primary position setting off from the lights. That's what caused him to be pissed off in the first place. I get why riding in primary position is important but he passed me when technically it was safe to do so; nothing coming from the opposite direction, wide road etc. You can't deliberately hold traffic up forever and doing so makes people far more irritated so that when they do eventually pass you, they are more likely to do this kind of thing.
Didn't someone here mention that the Green Party have said they would introduce an assumed liability law in cases where a cyclist has been knocked off/killed? I Couldn't be more opposed to their economic policies but I might just vote for them on the basis of that proposed change.
we are roadkill, we have absolutely no legal protection from idiots in cars and until that changes we remain in the set hedgehog, pheasant, cat, rabbit, badger, cyclist.
[img] 
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Maybe this , with ' Please ' up top?
There are different types of punishment passes, and its not always deliberate. There are the 'Im coming through if you wobble round that man hole' type ones. The 3rd car in line who blindly folloes car #1 and car #2 just as the Ocadao van comes round the corner ,, simply shite driving and impatience
Then there are the aimed to brush pass as close as possible with intent to scare you into the gutter , with no oncoming traffic , and no road furniture forcing them to get too personal.
I am going to road rage another driver one day as I drive alot C500 miles a week, so see some atrocious behaviour. Texting on motorways mostly , litter being launched , and punishmnet / misjudged overtakes .
I overtook a roady on my way back from a mtb ride. Coach coming the other way , I had space and time so nice and wide , guy behind slows to wait, then goes when adjancent to the coach giving the roady about 6" of free air. tosser.
Bit of a long post, sorry, but interested on your thoughts...
Another interesting thread.... Not sure getting tooled up with glass hammers and spring loaded punches will really hellp. I'm quite protective of my car and that would really wind me up irrespective of the circumstances.. think about what happens when someone bumps your car in the supermarket for instance...
I wonder if there is anything to help use a bike in a way so it can protect you if confronted... thinking stand with the frame between you and the other person.... maybe something on YouTube.
And lastly, I would be interested in reading something about how we all learn to drive. Not the mechanical bit of gears, steering etc etc, but how we learn and develop the attitude we (yes, me, you, everyone), adopt when driving... Different countries / cultures are different in this respect.
The attitude to smoking and alcohol free beer has been changed slowly.... maybe the attitude to driving and other road users needs the volume turning down from 11 to something lower like 5, so how does that happen ?
There are some TFL documents re car drivers and cyclists which make interesting reading and non mention technical ability to operate a vehicle, most mention the impression of other road drivers in comparison to "me, my journey, my car and my desire to reach my destination" and you are obstructing me.
Completely vindicated by crazy overtakes and conversations at the lights when the cyclist has caught the driver up...
I think driving is only stressful because we deal with it and interact with others in a manner which makes it so.
Aggressive, selfish and competitive. (I've said it before comparing UK to other countries, its a cultural style perhaps).
Take the 4x4 / BMW story up there ^^^ . 4x4 chugging steadily along... BMW driver says "You made me drive that way" Sorry, no. You made you drive that way....
Yep cyclists do dumb things too (RLJ etc), but thats for the police or a quiet word... why do drivers need to become " armed educators" ?
Couldn't you just have done the same to him at the lights, passed to close to him, accidentally raking your metal handlebar ends along the side of the vehicle?