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molgrips speaketh the truth - recovery drinks like Torq or SIS Rego are ace and of proper benefit to cyclists especially after a hard training ride or race. Excellent way of refuelling in the evening on stage race/multi-day type events.
Obviously you'll have been reading Matt Hart's fitness/nutrition stuff in the mag won't you? So you'll know to email enquiries@torq.ltd.uk with the subject line "Free Performance Resource" for a FREE (normally £5) pdf file about nutrition, diet, fuelling and general performance.
You didn't know? You do now...
Matt Hart is a top bloke, really knows what he's talking about and you'll get more info out of that pdf than you will out of an entire forum of STWers or indeed a fit Aussie gym instructor.
[i]mcboo - Member
.....thank you men, as ever some good STW advice in amongst the abuse.
1 x protein shake nailed, no longer hungry. [/i]
Are you sure about that.. did you read the ingredients and the nutritional information ?
per 100g
57 Kcal
3.2g protein
10g carbs
10g of which sugars
Ingredients:
Skimmed Milk (90%), Berry Fruit Preparation (9%) (Sugar, Glucose-Fructose Syrup, Water, Apple Juice (17%), Strawberry Juice (14%), Cherry Juice (11%), Blackberry Juice (5%), Raspberry Juice (5%), Blueberry Juice (3%), Colour (Anthocyanin), Acidity Regulator (E339c), Flavourings), Stabilisers: Cellulose, Carboxymethylcellulose, Carrageenan; Vitamin and Mineral Mixture (Maltodextrin, Magnesium Hydroxide, Vitamin C, Ferric Pyrophosphate, Vitamin E, Vitamin B3, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Vitamin B5, Vitamin A, Vitamins B6, B9, D3, B1, B2, Potassium Iodide). (Made from concentrated fruit juices).
http://www.forgoodnessshakes.com/products_berry.aspx
hardly a protein drink, you've pretty much just drank a pint of sugar fortified with chemicals.
I wouldn't drink it. Why not just eat a balanced meal after a bike ride ?
And the best thing about the Torq Performance resource is that I'm in one of the pictures!
I only tend to use the Torq recovery if I'm training hard (e.g. 6 hours on the road, or a hard interval session, or a heavy week). Otherwise I use Yazoo or Frijj choc milkshakes - good enough for most things (pretty much 3:1 carb protein ratio), taste better and are cheaper.
I do notice a definite difference with the Torq stuff though (after a hard session) compared to not using it.
I wouldn't drink it. Why not just eat a balanced meal after a bike ride ?
who has time to eat a proper meal just after a ride, it has been proven to be beneficial to take on protein and whatever else within 20 mins of stopping exercise, for most bikers thats getting changed, cleaning the bikes or driving home, so its handy having a drink to hand. For me, I probably wouldn't want to eat anything for an hour or two after a big ride, the exercise seems to make me not want to eat much but i could gulp plenty of milk/protein shake/liquid type thing.
and don't believe in miracle potions.
We're not talking about miracle potions, we are talking about well-known and pretty basic sports science.
Why not just eat a balanced meal after a bike ride ?
Cos it won't deliver the glycogen to your muscles quickly enough. You need high GI carbs immediately after exercising and a good meal a couple of hours later.
If you can't get recovery drink I've found (through personal experimentation) that necking a can of Coke works quite well too.
andreas hestler recommends necking a can of "pop" after ride then a meal in the next 20 mins ....
hes not slow
Works for me too actually . i find protien shakes tend to make me feel very sluggish after a ride - great for late night rides and sleeping but no good when training before work.
as usual for STW there is lots of good advice mixed with equally as much bad advice. Its easy to spot the good advice in this case. Crazy legs , molgrips to name 2 on this page
I am going cycling with Mcboo to Spain with some other lads. He sent a mail around, not asking about the ride but about where we will be filling our faces each night! Here lies the problem 😉
Molgrips - I think you will find the real research much of this stuff is based on is pretty sketchy. One I looked into was the 3:1 carbs to protein thing. |IIRC ( and I can't be bothered doing the search again)I found two studies - the origin of this was a study in malnourished elderly people, the other showed minor benefits in people put under extreme physical stress. ( polar explorers, Jungle survival - that sort of thing)
I could find nothing that related this to normal people undergoing moderate exercise but it is recommended for this with no basis in real science that I could find.
I think the snake oil / bullshine to science and proven fact is 10:1
Necking a can of coke? FFS - its nothing like "recovery drinks" but it is a reasonable rehydration drink due to its osmolarity. Some water, sweets and a nadfull of salted peanuts would be as good.
Seriously - try to find some real peer reviewed science behind these things - its very hard to do.
I am not saying none of it is worth having but scepticism is a very good attitude to take
I dunk a bottle of Lucozade sport down my kneck after a good ride, I have no reserves on me so what I ever I burn is from what I've been eating and drinking so need the quick glucose hit.
I have tried quite a few protein shakes over the years mainly to do with trying to build muscle. The best I have found is unflavoured whey protein 80% protein. Its from an online dealer who is fairly well respected by body builders. bulkpowders.com £35 for 5KG of pure whey protein is the cheapest in Europe! Its good stuff though and mixes better than any I have seen or used.
Also I reckon its a good idea to add some extra protein in your diet. Carbs are easy to find in large numbers. Good low fat protein is expensive and a lot harder to get from your diet than either simple or complex carbs. I have noticed a difference with having a protein shake everytime I have been to gym. My muscles dont ache as much the day after being the main one. After a ride would be ideal to have one mixed in 500ml of milk, That would give you over 55 grams of protein with the above whey powder and milk protein content. Works out at like 20 odd pence for the whey and about 30p for the milk. Just over 50p for that amount of protein. Would cost me 4 quid in decent chicken breast for that!
Skimmed milk is supposedly good for recovery. I have no links, but perhaps research it yourself.
I have tried quite a few protein shakes over the years mainly to do with trying to build muscle
yes, if you want to add muscle then you need extra protein, but this can only be temporary unless you wish to resemble the Incredible Hulk...
simon you are making comments as per the norm about something you know sod all about. How can muscle be temporary? Bit like saying your hair will drop out one day and you will go bald. Or your eyesight will get worse! Last time I looked my muscles were still her and doing fine, lifitng weights and riding bikes the odd time. Or are you trying to say that bike riders are all scrawny and should have no muscle?
Will give a a couple of these a go, starting with Torq, their bars are lovely that I know. For Goodness Shake was a bit of a chew, didnt taste all that great, having an attempt at a chocolate one later......
As pointed out above, still a lot of carbs in these (all seem to be 3:1), clearly not a magic bullett, I need to eat better.
Just step back a minute. You're trying to get down from 19% bodyfat, which is high. You're going to try and achieve this by drinking strawberry and chocolate milkshakes, and carb drinks.
I know its been pointed out several times already, but really?
You probably need less carbs, and replacing some of those with calories from high quality, low-fat protein is a good idea. Replacing more still with a variety of vegetables will do even more good. Get some packs of frozen broccoli and spinach, they don't take 2 minutes to cook and they'll fill you up.
I'm with you, believe me.....I need to eat better. I could just drink a pint of semi-skimmed milk, get the same protein and only about 1/3 of the carbs......fruit and veg, run to work a couple of times a week instead of cycle, see how I get on.
La muscle ones are nice - strwberry/ vanilla not bad mint choc is a bit chemically - some times i find that less water than recomended helps - makes the flvour stronger/ milkshake thicker and so more 'realistic'
i find they help me build muscle when i'm lifting - and also when riding lots helps me to feel somewhat fresher the next day. find it is best to take them before bed as that is when the body does a lot of repair work.
forgot to add if you want to lose weight count calories. you need to displace some fatty calories with protein ones. if you eat more you will get fat.
You're WEAK!
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There's some decent advice above but it's of very mixed relevance to the OP who is trying to lose weight as far as I can work out.
Getting some energy in asap after exercise is a good idea and even without quoting the research there's been plenty to prove that. Mixes of protein/carbs can be debated but again, there has been research into it which is why you'll see any elite athlete taking protein/carb rather than pure carb though the difference is not necessarily huge.
BUT that's very little if anything to do with losing weight (I suppose you could argue that eating right after exercise will stop you emptying the fridge when you get home from the gym) - that's about performance and the ability to train again asap.
You can argue about it but fundamentally calories in/out will determine your weight, assuming a reasonably balanced diet. There are some things to do with exactly what you eat (eg carbs/protein/fat) that will have some effect (eg some foods will keep you feeling full for longer so you don't get tempted to eat so much) but most over-eating is a mental thing so that's what will fix the 'problem'.
Eat less, eat healthily and exercise more and you will lose weight. The best suggestion I've seen work is to write down everything you eat - usually makes the dieter realise that they eat far more than they think they do and that a lot of it is just habit/comfort rather than because they're hungry.
Clubber - good relevant advice there. I've found keeping a food diary the most effective way of losing weight (not that I needed to lose much, but got from about 73kgs to 68kgs). It's also useful to make sure you are eating enough when training hard (this might not be relevant to OP!).
If the OP tries the Torq Recovery, try the strawberries and cream one first. Most people get on with it better than the other flavours (according to Matt).
Molgrips - I think you will find the real research much of this stuff is based on is pretty sketchy. One I looked into was the 3:1 carbs to protein thing
It's true that particular one is contested. However, as well as peer reviewed studies there's a LOT of anectodal evidence as well.
Necking a can of coke? FFS - its nothing like "recovery drinks" but it is a reasonable rehydration drink due to its osmolarity. Some water, sweets and a nadfull of salted peanuts would be as good.
You need carbs very soon after finishing exercise because it helps replenish muscle glycogen quicker. I'm sorry for the spam but you asked for it - complete with research citation (which is from 30 years ago, which shows how long this has been known by everyone apparently apart from TJ):
Finally, take advantage of the glycogen repletion window that is open in the 4 hours immediately following vigorous exercise. During this time, any carbohydrates you eat will be converted into muscle glycogen at 3 times the normal rate - and some data suggests there is a 50% fall in this super charged repletion rate by 2 hours with a return to a normal repletion rate by 4 hours. (Ivy JL et al,J Appl Physiol 1988 Apr;64(4):1480-5). The slowing rate of glycogen storage occurs even when plasma glucose and insulin levels remain elevated with oral supplements. After this initial 4 hours, muscle glycogen stores are replenished at a rate of approximately 5% per hour. And while it may require up to 48 hours for complete muscle glycogen replacement following a 2 hour ride, for all practical purposes glycogen stores are almost completely rebuilt in the first 24 hours post event. But for the athlete who is on a daily training schedule, or is in a multiday event, the glycogen window can be used to get a jump on the normal repletion process and minimize the chance of gradually developing chronic glycogen depletion (and the fatigue that goes along with it).
Really mate, this stuff is common knowledge amongst those who take training even half seriously. For you to come on and say it's all rubbish based on your extensive study of nothing at all (your opinions appear to be based on you being an old curmudgeon as far as I can see) is just daft, and (ironically based on where you seem to be coming from) unscientific.
You and I have had this argument before, and you went away saying that maybe you'd learned something. I guess not, after all 🙂
To sum up - high GI carbs immediately after riding really helps recovery. Torq reco helps even more 🙂
Molgrips - you misunderstood me on two points.
One is that you mentioned recovery drinks then coke in the same sentence. I merely pointed out the two are not the same. Of course the carbs after exercise is well known - Hence water, sweets for sugar peanuts for salt and protein.
The other is that I din't say it was all rubbish but that a healthy scepticism is a useful attitude to take. Sports nutrition seems to vary from well researched and proven to proven snake oil. Knowledge helps you sort it out.
Haven't got a clue about the rights or wrongs of it, might all be bollix but try http://affordablesupplements.co.uk/ they are spot on and cheap too.
TJ and Molgrips: Get a room 🙂
I had a SIS Reco after the SITS solo 6 years ago. I can still remember how good I felt the next day. Thats good enough for me.
Didn't work on my raw arse though!
dont overdo it...........
-Sedatary office workers need about 1g of protein per kg (target/ideal) bodyweight per day
-Body builders need 2g per kg (or more depending on excercise routines)
-Endurance athletes need somewhere inbetween, around 1.3-1.6g
Now you could get that from wolfing down a couple of extra steaks every day, or you could have a protein shake.
Excercising without enough protein leads to muscle loss. Doing a training ride then eating nothign will actualy harm your fitness as the body eats up healthy muscle tissue to try and repair whats damaged. You should never consume more than 20g in any 2 hour period, any more will just be metabolised and you'll piss out the nitrogen as ammonia. Its the nitrogen the body needs, it can synthesise a lot of stuff (fat etc), but proteins need to be eaten as proteins for this reason.
You should be able to get the normal 80g of protein a day form eating healthily, it's that extra 60g you need on hard days that makes excercise worthwhile. Try milk protein in the morning with breakfast, its slow to absorb so should stop the body turning to its own reserves of protein for energy. Then 20g whey protein after excercise to help with the recovery process in repairing muscle tissue. Then another 20g milk protein before bed.
Obviously bodybuilders can metabolise protein faster as theres more muscles that need repairing. This is where the protein shakes with 42g of whey in them come in, for you and me they just turn your piss bright yellow for a couple of hours.
As for the temproary muscle comment, are you somehow implying that muscle from protein from steak is longer lasting? All muscle is temporary, if it weren't 50yr olds would all look like Arnie!
I consumed various protein drinks in an effort to tone up during a year of weight training and found it made no difference.
Extra protein is snake oil unless you're doing very high intensity workouts and trying to bulk up IMHO.
Just to fuel this debate. I've been into keeping fit/gym on and off for years now but never managed to get any definition or drop fat (this is eating fairly healthy)
2 weeks ago
* i gave up bread and white pasta
* upped my protein intake
* eat every 2-3 hours
I've noticed the little layer of fat i had coming off.. My abs are starting to show and muscles are more defined.
I don't eat any carbs in the evening either and i'm never hungry. Certainly working for me (i do down a protein shake after the gym)
Excercising without enough protein leads to muscle loss. Doing a training ride then eating nothign will actualy harm your fitness as the body eats up healthy muscle tissue to try and repair whats damaged.
I can see that exercising without enough protein would prevent muscle [b]growth[/b], but if there is muscle damage the damaged stuff is made out of protein which can be reused