Bikes with odd headsets, or unique hub spacing, an individual thread on a through axle or only being able to run an exclusive crank.
How do you feel about these things and would they put you off a bike? Especially if you're the sort to go big on the purchase with a view to keeping the bike for the long haul?
Yes
Yes.
How do you feel about these things and would they put you off a bike? Especially if you’re the sort to go big on the purchase with a view to keeping the bike for the long haul?
yes.
And I'm the opposite, a constant piecemeal upgrader, including the frame. I'm dreading the switch to 29er (probably my next move) as I'll need frame, forks and wheels rebuilt on new rims.
Nope, never had a problem getting hold of spares for unique parts eg Cannondale Headshock, Specialized headsets, Scott frames etc.
Yes, it'd put me off.
I've leared to accept that mech hangers will always been frame specific, anything more than that doesn't sit well.
Yep. It can be a pain if you an owner of an older model. Used parts are very limited. No third part suppliers. You can usually get the part but who wants to pay full retail from a single supplier? Had with an old Specialized with a weird shock size. We've got enough standards already without manufacturers making up new ones for no good reason
mech hangers will always been frame specific
Hopefully the Sram universal mech hanger end that, too
Yes, it's really annoying. I used to buy parts and build up bikes exactly how I like them. I had a nice 26" QR wheelset that saw loads of different bikes. Now it's pointless buying nice components because you can't be sure they'll be usable on your next bike. I'd have bought a nice (Chris King?) wheelset by now. Except that I don't know whether my next bike will have Boost, Superboost, 27.5, 29 inch wheels etc.
I also remember a time when you could go into a bike shop for a tyre. Nowadays each tyre (E.g. a tread pattern like Maxxis Minion) has about 30 SKUs across different wheel sizes, widths, casing etc and they're basically impossible to buy the one you want except from some internet megashop with a warehouse.
I guess some people are making money out of all of this, but it's really putting me off those incremental upgrades.
mech hangers you can get and even carry a spare. small light and cheap and also do not wear out
I keep bikes for a long time thus i want / need as good spares availability as possible
I remember getting caught out with 1.25" quill stems, 1.5" front mechs and 31.8mm seat posts in the 90s.
There's a bike that's taken my fancy but my head is saying "no" due to proprietary parts.
- Why do it then? Stick with what you have until it is completely done and dust(ed).I’m dreading the switch to 29er (probably my next move)
29er isn't for me so I'm happy not to have to go through that process - I'm sure it will happen at some point when everything has gone, but until then, I'll not worry about it.
Unique 'standards' do concern me, but fortunately I've been very boring with my purchases and stuck with mainstream stuff (mainly) so not had a concern other than the general cost of replacing like for like (always seems a great price when buying the complete bike, then you get the surprise when it comes to replacing worn parts...).
Something like Trek's knock-block then no, it's not going to wear out so it's a non-issue. Some weird hub or BB - definitely.
If it's a volume part then other manufacturers will also make their own versions and we all know that ensures both availability and reasonable pricing. Proprietary parts tend to create a monopoly for that part and that generally means it ends up being expensive.
Yes.
Although I'm at the stage now where I need an entire new fleet of bikes because virtually nothing on my bikes is compatible with what is now easily available on the market, it would all be hard-to-source NOS or S/H stuff.
The one exception is the SS road bike which will probably never be completely out of date, there's still SS/track hubs, basic headsets etc that are easy(ish) to get.
Yes*
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*not enough though. We have owned two Headshock Cannondale's and currently a Giant with Overdrive 2 Headset (less of an issue).
Many years ago, I turned down a lovely Klein Adroit, because it had a massive proprietary headset system, rather than the then ubiquitous 1.125". Looking back, it may just have been some fairly standard bearings, of a particular size; all the different brands used slightly different bearings anyway, so it wouldn't necessarily have been much different to sourcing those. But it was just the proprietary nature, that put me off. But then, I've owned a Headshock Cannondale, and I think the older ones had a slightly different size to later models. But from what I've seen, the age of standardisation on bicycles is well over. I don't think manufacturers really want you to keep a bike beyond a few years, they want you to buy a new one. So why use standard fittings?
They absolutely put me off!
My Trek Fuel EX is basically useless now as the shock has worn internally and the parts are no longer available. As it's a DRCV one it's got an odd mounting, length and stroke so putting a new shock on it is tough without compromising the travel, basically makes the frame worthless. It's still running at the moment but it's only a matter of time before the shock dies. The replacement bike is on order and has no proprietary parts apart from the mech hanger.
100% yes...
– Why do it then? Stick with what you have until it is completely done and dust(ed).
Problem being those 3 things (frame, fork and wheels) are unlikely to be done and dusted simultaneously.
I'm far from ready to move on from my current bike (new rims, and new internals for the fork in the last 12 months) but of the bikes currently on the market, only a mid travel 29er would be both useful to me for my usage case, and a noticable upgrade on what I'm riding now.
Of course I say that now, then I'll start looking at some blingy carbon 650b frames that can fit my current parts....
I wasn't going to buy a new Specialized if they stuck with weird hub spacing and press-fit BB. IIRC some Trek road bikes have gone back to old established standards.
100% put off, even stuff like boost can get in the sea as far as I'm concerned. As much as I like Shimano stuff there was no reason at all for them to have another new crank/spider BCD for GRX, the existing 4x104 or their newer 4x96 would have been absolutely fine.
Yes.
*I now check for spares availability/dealers who specialise/serviceability before I buy and my existing bits pile would likely dictate some buying criteria, eg. Boost wheels etc.
Yes, to a degree (and I'm discounting derailleur hangers here).
One of the big selling points when I bought my Aeris was that everything was fairly standard lengths, sizes and fittings as far as BB, frame bearings, shock length, etc.
The OH has a Turbo Levo FSR with the proprietary shock mount, but I knew of BikeYoke before we bought it so wasn't worried about that. Also knew that there was potentially parts available for the motor as its essentially a standard Brose as well.
Absolutely. I can put parts from one bike on another, if I break a part on holiday I can usually just walk into a shop and get another- have a choice in fact. Standards are fantastic.
Sometimes there's good reason to use a weird part- something you really can't do with normal ones. But it has to be a really good reason. Like fatbikes, or Trek's weird rear shocks, I can approve of that because sometimes they manage to make a really amazing working frame. But shit like Hope's randomly different rear hub, or on the other hand Superboost? **** off.
Boost itself is just total bullshit of course, but sometimes the bullshit wins and you've not got much choice.
Nope. Can see the issue if you’re a serial part swapper or buy second hand but for buying new it’s not an issue for me.
Had a cannondale head shock and a couple of lefty forks and never struggled to get parts. Same with a couple of Canyons and their weird headsets.
Would love to see what bike designers and engineers could do if they didn’t have the shackles of enforced backwards compatibility to deal with.
Yes.
If it's not interchangeable with my other bikes then it's a probably a no, a unique part is a definite no
No, not if they're justified. Also depends on the likely lifespan of the part and what it has to be compatible with.
Would love to see what bike designers and engineers could do if they didn’t have the shackles of enforced backwards compatibility to deal with.
The trouble is they don't then make a massive leap forward, they make the hub 3mm wider or change the spanner you need to undo a BB or just make it work the same but not fit the old parts
to a certain extent, yes.
I haven't really come across too many proprietary parts on the bikes i end up looking at or buying.
but i wont buy a pivot, down to the fact they use Superboost rear ends. Whilst there are plenty of superboost hubs/wheels out there, i dont want to limited or tied in to something a little big niche.
yes,
shocks wheels especially.
bearings and such less so.
Depends on which bike it is.
From a specialized or Trek? no not really, they'd most likely see you right. from one of the smaller brands, I'd have to be convinced I think.
Yes, completely.
Even though I rarely keep a bike more than 3 years and sell to upgrade, I don't recall any proprietary system or part not being a pain in the arse a handful of years down the road when, inevitably, the Manufacturer decides the rest of the world was right all along and stops supporting it and I at least like to think I could keep riding it forever, if I wanted to.
'Standards' a dirty word of course, are different, but even then, I won't be an early adopter, for every 27.5" wheel there's a 1.5" straight steerer, for every Metric Shock there's a 'Plus' tyre etc. Times change, SRAM especially seems to get buy-in (or force-in) from at least some frame manufacturers before they wheel out a new standard so they tend to stick and some things are easy to change. I couldn't hand on heart guarantee my 35mm bar / stem combo won't end up in an MTB cul de sac in a few years, but it would be no biggie, I'd just moan and buy a bar and stem if I needed new bars, but if my DUB BB ends up on the scrap pile, I'm in trouble.
reluctantjumper
Full MemberThey absolutely put me off!
My Trek Fuel EX is basically useless now as the shock has worn internally and the parts are no longer available. As it’s a DRCV one it’s got an odd mounting, length and stroke so putting a new shock on it is tough without compromising the travel, basically makes the frame worthless. It’s still running at the moment but it’s only a matter of time before the shock dies. The replacement bike is on order and has no proprietary parts apart from the mech hanger.
Took 11 years but I was finally proved right 😎
https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/trek-2011-part-one-fuel-ex/
Depends. I have an HB.160 with proprietary rear brake (radial mount), rear hub (130x17mm), headset (cups bonded in but used standard Hope bearings), BB (but standard Hope bearings).
It's also Boost front hub (but can use non-Boost with convertors), non-metric shock, XD driver (but can use any Pro4 freehub), non-front mech (meh), 27.5" etc.
I've no doubt all the Hope stuff will be supported for years. It'll probably be the shock that's a problem in years to come, although currently on a DVO Jade which it relatively easy to service.
Yep. I’m not a serial bike swapper like some people. And having seen people have holidays ruined (or cost loads more) because some proprietary or insure part gets broken in the alps has put me off anything like that.
I need to be able to bodge fix a suspension pivot bolt or axle using something from the local hardware shop or just replace the part with some easy to find in a bike shop/Intersport etc so as not to ruin my riding time.
No
But then I ride mostly fatbikes (and a boost 29 plus and a roadbike) so it comes with the territory.
What I have found is that even with the increasing technical nature of bikes, there's not much that can't be adapted if necessary. Take 132mm wide press fit bottom bracket shells for example - forget Surly proprietary cranks and weird bcd and Q factor, use cheap shimano pressfit BB, standard(ish) raceface fatbike chainset and machine some spacers.
But then I enjoy doing my own bodging, even if it sometimes takes a couple of goes
So, if you were looking at a bike and then learned that it wouldn't take a shimano chainset, only their own crank with a SRAM 8 bolt ring (who even knew that was a thing) then the wise move is probably to keep looking?
Yes. Especially odd hub standards, wheel offsets and shocks mounts. Had a few bikes now where the only way to get the suspension working how I wanted would be to upgrade the shock. Bit of a problem if that's not possible.
One frame I built up had a particular press fit bb size which (at the time) was only compatible with Sram bb and cranks. No mention of it being a Sram only standard in the specs. Thought it would be okay until I came to put it together. On paper others should have fitted fine, but no. Quite tedious as I had already bought cranks/BB and Sram didn't do the crank length I wanted.
ReluctantJumper - Can you not fit pretty much any Trunnion shock to your Trek now that they’re more common? I know someone did that with their Remedy and said it was much better (I think, not 100% sure on all the details).
There was an article on NSMB about upgrading your current bike instead of forking out £££££ on a new one in the current climate.
Your new bike is your current bike
Yes, I was all set to buy a Trek Roscoe a couple of years ago but the weird QR141 rear axle put me off.
I also owned a Cannondale Trigger (as I suspect half the forum did when Paul’s Cycles was selling them off cheap) with the weird Fox Dyad pull shock. I got rid when I was quoted something like £350 for a shock service because some service parts weren’t available so they’d need to replace half of it as part of the process. Not doing that again.
There's not really been that many totally proprietary bits on bikes TBH, there's been a couple of odd headset options, the occasional weird seat post size a couple of strange caliper mounting ideas, but for the most part bikes are really just a collection of standardized interfaces. It's actually quite good really... So yeah any deviation from standard parts wouldn't attract me as a buyer...
The bigger issue is still the arbitrary changes to those standards every so often to use a bit of planned obscelece to stimulate sales, which of course works, but even then it's far from impossible to keep "ancient" bikes rolling...
No, same as it doesn’t bother me with any other product.
Isn't QR141 just a boots hib with QR end caps on it?
The Cannondale pull shock definitely though, literally nothing else you could fit and so unreliable too.
Giant Overdrive was a special sort of annoying, absolutely no reason for it.
Hope HB bikes with a hub and brake standard that no other company makes was a big no for me. Not being able to fit a different brake or wheel? No thanks.
Yes.
I'm just not prepared to spend a month's pay on something I'll struggle to keep running.
I think the OP is thinking of buying a stolen Boris bike from a dodgy geezer.
