If that is literally it I might consider it
That's all there is. 👍
or whilst they can make arbitrary decisions on what sponsors riders are allowed to have or what other work they are allowed to do.
I think most sports have rules about advertising don't they? I mean, I know Only Fans isn't entirely about the porn, but they also would make the same decisions about alcohol and tobacco sponsorship. If you're going to get sponsored at least do the due diligence about whether you going to be compliant or not. They haven't stopped the only fan content, just stopped him from advertising it.
You say that like the Olympics is a definitively good thing for anyone outside the gravy train?
You speak as if the only thing that matters to (a highly competitive and driven group of folks) is money. Are you familiar with Goldman's dilemma? Some of these folks don't care whether they live or die, I'm going to suggest that while it may be nice, money isn't the primary deciding factor in these folks lives.
So that’s every rider and national body in every cycling sport* that might want to have a tilt at an Olympic medal
So doesn't impact DH or enduro.
You say that like the Olympics is a definitively good thing for anyone outside the gravy train?
It's widely regarded as the pinnacle of almost every sport inculded, and brings unparalleled exposure to non mainstream sports. So in the context of this conversation, I'd say yes it's positive.
Team GB don’t pay our athletes a penny for the dubious honour of working for free
Although they may not be paid to attend the Olympics as such, athletes in the non mainstream sports are funded by UK Sport so they can live professionally and compete in the Olympics.
Did anyone see the email celebrating the success of the enduro world series?
● 4,000 entries across 55 nationalities during the season
● Cumulative reach of 83.6m across UCI MTB World Series social media platforms
● 1.5m views of Enduro content on dedicated YouTube channel with subscribers doubling
Apparently their best ever year. I simply can't see it.
The email doesn't expressly say it, but it reads as though entries are up. However I doubt that is the case as they no longer run EWS100 at every event, and some that they did were poorly attended. Inners EWS100/80 pulled 450 entries.
The social media reach has grown because they've combined enduro, XC and DH under a single page, so that is a misleading fiugre when talking about enduro.
Again, they now put XC and highlights on what was previously the enduro channel so only doubling subscribers is probably disappointing.
Interestingly the highlights were on Eurosport earlier and they were decent enough, as good/bad as previously anyway. It's still a really hard sport to cover without massive resources.
Entries are up, there's the XCM amateur race to take into account.
@weeksy the Chatel coverage was pretty good, I have no real issue with the level of cover of the race. It's the half arsed effort that goes into everything around it that sells the sport short.
@ocrider The email is about Enduro, not XCM.
Also, as i've been stuck on a webinar I had some time to kill. I reckon 2022 content had 2 million youtube views.
The Chatel coverage was good, It hasn't always been that good this season though.
Ok, I took it as a universal amateur entry number massaged to look like enduro racers. We were at Loudenvielle and numbers were stable there, it was cheaper to enter compared to last year too (£30 less).
nickc
You speak as if the only thing that matters to (a highly competitive and driven group of folks) is money.
Not at all which is why my next statement was...
There are a lot of ways to look at this but we can separate them for the sake of discussion and perhaps what “good for the sport” and similar things mean ??
In many ways it is the pinnacle of an entire structure that TODAY principally exists to give salaries to people involved in admin rather than support athletes and sports.Financial – I’m not saying that should be the be all and end all but lets at least acknowledge it any who is benefiting financially ??
Some of these folks don’t care whether they live or die, I’m going to suggest that while it may be nice, money isn’t the primary deciding factor in these folks lives.
Well there is little point turning up if they are bothered about serious injury... but I'd suggest being able to continue racing without saying what you're told and some medical insurance and serious injury insurance not just chucked on the scrap heap might be a good thing.
Look at this wider or maybe the other side some athletes would rather win and be disqualified for refusing to shake hands than take the medal.
I think Victoria Pendleton sums it up well and not only in terms of sexism, what she said is true for any body like BC.
“It was never going to happen at an earlier stage, unfortunately. And, when you’re in the team, you keep your head down and you do what you’re told because you want to be part of it. It doesn’t mean it’s right,”
It's OK, E-Enduro will save everything!!
which is why my next statement was…
Incomprehensible? Honestly, if you wrote clearly and concisely I'd engage more, but your posts reads like a wall of verbiage, sorry I just haven't got the time.
Team GB don’t pay our athletes a penny for the dubious honour of working for free…
yes they do if it is an Olympic sport. It come from the lottery
It’s still a really hard sport to cover without massive resources
Warner Bros Discovery is hardly a mom and pop shop.
I'm still curious to see how ESO have spent the £6 million WBD gave them.
just need to just leave UCI en-masse
Really. Whilst it’s theoretically possible for some brands to do that the reality is not so clear.
None of the riders would ever get to win world champs as they wouldn’t have the recognition from their national governing body if they never attended a sanctioned event so couldn’t even enter
From a brand perspective there are virtually none of the big factory teams who don’t have interests in other sanctioned disciplines that they would be prepared to walk away from for DH or enduro. The only one I can think of is pivot ( I’m assuming Santa Cruz would be told to stay by pon because of their road interests with other brands ). Atherton could but they aren’t a big brand yet.
nickc
Incomprehensible? Honestly, if you wrote clearly and concisely I’d engage more, but your posts reads like a wall of verbiage, sorry I just haven’t got the time.
which part of this needs clarifying?
Financial – I’m not saying that should be the be all and end all but lets at least acknowledge it any who is benefiting financially ??
"It’s still a really hard sport to cover without massive resources"
"Warner Bros Discovery is hardly a mom and pop shop."
Covering it well, to the standard people want,and doing it profitably is probably a different matter though. Even more so in a challenged trading environment where there's less sponsorship dollars to offset costs.
If partnering up with a media giant like WBD doesn't improve the coverage, what was the point of ditching Red Bull.
WBD has an annual revenue of $34 billion. Red Bull are about $10 billion.
This season certainly doesn't feel like they've partnered with a company that's 3 X the size of the previous one
I'm guessing red bull didn't see ROI and sales uplift on drinks after all the marketing investment into MTB, so didn't bid enough? Hence why they're not media outlet now.
Team GB don’t pay our athletes a penny for the dubious honour of working for free…
Steve, the Olympics claim to be an amateur competition. Team GB dubiously skirts the rules with our current funding model for elite athletes that effectively makes them professionals. Not paying them directly to ride in competition isn't the same as working for free. The work is in the training needed to reach that level that they're paid for along with a huge amount of support that's provided for "free".
Think that got highlighted a few years ago at Glasgow commonwealth games when Laura Trott and Jason were almost front page news as they didn't want to attend as they didn't get paid for it...
ChrisMac
yes they do if it is an Olympic sport. It come from the lottery
The key word is "pay" but perhaps I should have said salaried .. unlike the CEO of BC for example who gets £68k/yr + expenses + pension and I'd expect health insurance, perks etc. and an employment contract and rights.
Then there are another 250 salaried workers in British Cycling ..
Who knows how many salaries in TeamGB but payscale.com lists a SALARY as Client Services Director 49k - £98k (Estimated *) £69,363... and the executive team is some who's who of Disney, Coca Cola and such.
Who are they marketing to ??? Oh, yeah they are funded by being the sole control over advertising on the unsalaried athletes .. and must be raking it in in bribes and hospitality. Then for cycling there is the UCI ...
Basically a load of fat cats milking the system whilst the athletes do all the actual work and don't get a employment contract or treated as employees.
Surely the athletes deserve better than this?
Really. Whilst it’s theoretically possible for some brands to do that the reality is not so clear.
None of the riders would ever get to win world champs as they wouldn’t have the recognition from their national governing body if they never attended a sanctioned event so couldn’t even enter
That's why ideally the entire pyramid disappears.. but more realistically perhaps its about getting out when different sports and disciplines can.
Instead of getting closer to these "bodies" move as far away as possible... enter non UCI/BC sanctioned races and events .. for DH/Enduro don't look at BMX/XC as some sort of good thing it's an Olympic sport... as consumers support a riders union for example, refuse to pay for anything sanctioned by BC or the UCI and pay for alternatives??
Think that got highlighted a few years ago at Glasgow commonwealth games when Laura Trott and Jason were almost front page news as they didn’t want to attend as they didn’t get paid for it…
I’m sure they didn’t. But they got paid to do all the training and they got well rewarded by sponsors off the back of the results they have got. They had all their expenses for going to the event. The fact that they were complaining that they weren’t being paid to attend suggests that they get paid to attend. No one gets paid to attend the Olympics either, it’s the only token left of it being amateur
enter non UCI/BC sanctioned races and events
That doesn't really work in some ways. Using ourselves as an example in DH, the BC context is massively important, partly because 90% of DH races are BC, there's only Root1 at Rogate/Tidworth really down here that's not a BC race series in DH. Throw in a couple of things like Malverns/Peatys/Danny Harts... but even those, like Pearce race are BC sanctioned and run under BC rules. Pearce are their own organisers but they're still sanctioned with BC...
Now, "why' is your question...
Well it's because of the ranking system of course. The BC rankings feed into WCDH, so the kids/adults who are getting the ranking points are the ones allowed into WCDH races, either as juniors or as Elites. Not to mention World Champs, Euro Champs etc.. it's all tied in. You can't be an Elite WCDH rider without it.. simple as that.
Sure in a worldwide stage there's races like IXS, Crankworx etc, but even they have a tie-in with UCI rankings as IXS races score points for the WCDH ranking system which makes them even more important than previously, (see Brayton).
The key word is “pay” but perhaps I should have said salaried .. unlike the CEO of BC for example who gets £68k/yr + expenses + pension and I’d expect health insurance, perks etc. and an employment contract and rights.
Then there are another 250 salaried workers in British Cycling ..
Who knows how many salaries in TeamGB but payscale.com lists a SALARY as Client Services Director 49k – £98k (Estimated *) £69,363… and the executive team is some who’s who of Disney, Coca Cola and such.
Who are they marketing to ??? Oh, yeah they are funded by being the sole control over advertising on the unsalaried athletes .. and must be raking it in in bribes and hospitality. Then for cycling there is the UCI …Basically a load of fat cats milking the system whilst the athletes do all the actual work and don’t get a employment contract or treated as employees.
These are hardly 'fat cat' salaries and their remit will be much wider than the athlete program. In fact the exaple you use (Client Services Director) most likely has no connection to racing (at a professional/national level).
weeksy
Now, “why’ is your question…
It's all very catch-22 though for the reasons you mention.
but even they have a tie-in with UCI rankings as IXS races score points for the WCDH ranking system
Which makes me think there just needs to be a viable alternative..
This is just a tin-pot local event but
If you look who attended - a lot of support from pro riders and although Bernard was away Bardolph turned up and Brendan brought the family in support. (I know its Enduro not DH but it had some proper sized stuff not Southern/Pedalhounds type Enduro)
Which makes me think there just needs to be a viable alternative..
Why ?
All sports have a pecking order, from grass roots, to serious, to semi-pro and full pro, then to 'world'.... Same with EWS/EDR, same with football, cricket, darts, tennis. They all have governing bodies who they all 'report to' and are ranked within. Why should DH/Enduro be different ?
The US Open DH has of course shown that with the right organisation the prize money can be a LOT better for the riders. But i get the impression the guy running it has been doing this stuff for a very long time and is very good at it.
However, despite the prize money, and even though it's the weekend before Snowshoe, very few of the big boys turned up to play... Why is that ? You'd assume it'd be perfect training/practice and the chance of a good payday... I'd be really curious as to why so few came and played.
These are hardly ‘fat cat’ salaries
That depends on the level of benefits and ability to accept hospitality and bribes.
It's in the range of an MP salary ... I understand some people find it hard to pay a nanny and buy gold wallpaper on a PM's salary and are forced to take free holidays on private islands and yachts...
In fact the exaple you use (Client Services Director) most likely has no connection to racing (at a professional/national level).
So why are they employed at all? This is the body choses who gets to go and who doesn't, sets their puny allowances and kicks them off if they have an accident, get ill or fall pregnant
They are basically a media and marketing team... mostly put there through nepotism selling advertising space on athletes.
CEO - Earlier in his career, Andy worked for The Walt Disney Company in Burbank California, in a senior capacity within the successful Consumer Products division and spent time at Channel 4 TV, one of the UK’s leading network TV companies as Head of Strategy and MD of Channel 4’s digital media business.
COO - Having started his career in the broadcast industry, Shahab went on to spend two years living and working in Japan before training to be a lawyer. Shahab trained and qualified at the law firm Freshfields working primarily on corporate transactions, before joining the BOA in 2010.
CFO - In Sarah’s early career she trained and qualified as a Chartered Accountant at PwC. She then cut her teeth in industry in B2B events at UBM focussing on M&A in emerging markets in EMEA. Since then Sarah has been CFO in two start-ups; Virgin Sport, who disrupted the mass participation running events space with the iconic Hackney Half and Unleash a B2B events company focussing on HR tech.
Commercial Director - Prior to the BOA, Tim was responsible for Heineken’s main sports properties – in particular the UEFA Champions League, Rugby World Cup and Formula 1 – managing the above the line, below the line, digital, PR and promotions of these sponsorships across the activating markets. In addition, Tim was in charge of the delivery of the sponsorship rights for Heineken’s contracting partners at UEFA, World Rugby and Formula One Management. Before joining Heineken, Tim was the Sponsorship Manager for Coca-Cola Great Britain working on the company’s global assets such as FIFA World Cup and Olympic Games as well as managing their domestic sponsorships with the Football League and RFU. Tim started his career with Synergy Sponsorship where he worked on the Coca-Cola account.
I’d be really curious as to why so few came and played.
Flights, accommodation costs, risk of injury, other commitments. Pick any or one....But yeah, I was surprised there wasn't more.
The key word is “pay” but perhaps I should have said salaried .. unlike the CEO of BC for example who gets £68k/yr + expenses + pension and I’d expect health insurance, perks etc. and an employment contract and rights.
£68k a year to run a £25m business with ~250 staff is considered a ‘fat cat’? 😆
Jesus, decent sales people in my world have higher basic salaries than that.
It’s in the range of an MP salary
An MP's pay is way more (basic is nearly £90K) and you're looking at the salary for the very top executives, that's paid to a handful of people. Those are pretty low-mid range salaries, about the going rate for a salaried GP or a dentist.
The key word is “pay” but perhaps I should have said salaried
If we want to get technical the athletes get training grants with the money coming from the National Lottery. Becuase they are grants and not salaries they are not subject to tax as a salary would be so they are effectively the same as take home pay.
It always amazes me what people on here consider to be middling or average salaries.
Maybe we should have a forum for careers advice.
That CEO/COO/CFO/CCO listing above looks like an excellent, well qualified, highly experienced leadership team with solid backgrounds in their respective fields. Exactly the kind of people you need to be running the commercial/operational side of a sports organisation. Making sure the organisation is operationally & financially sound is just as important as the sporting side of things, or else there's no organisation, team or support.
I’m sure they didn’t. But they got paid to do all the training and they got well rewarded by sponsors off the back of the results they have got. They had all their expenses for going to the event. The fact that they were complaining that they weren’t being paid to attend suggests that they get paid to attend. No one gets paid to attend the Olympics either, it’s the only token left of it being amateur
Yeah, that was my point, they got paid for everything else, then getting asked to represent the country and they complained as they weren't going to be paid for the actual racing seemed like a really poor show. Accommodation and plenty other things all provided, but the complaint (by Laura) was that they weren't being paid for the 7 days racing at the Commonwealth Games...was just a really poor show from a professional.
It always amazes me what people on here consider to be middling or average salaries.
The second part of that sentence should read "for those sorts of roles". Context is everything.
Just backing up a bit. Having a race sanctioned via BC means you have some cover in the event of an incident IIRC, I used to run BMX races but it was a while back now.
Not having to deal with third party insurance companies for race insurance was a massive boon to a volunteer run event. I suspect most UK cycle events are BC backed for this reason.
I was just about to post what @twistedpencil has.
The main driver for having an event BC sanctioned, is for the insurance. You pay a levy to BC, pay Commissaire costs, and BC provide the insurance and ensure the event is being run to a suitable standard to cover liability.
I'd say that for most organisers, the ranking points is a secondary thing, and that is probably true for the majority of riders as well.
£68k a year to run a £25m business with ~250 staff is considered a ‘fat cat’? 😆
Jesus, decent sales people in my world have higher basic salaries than that.
Of the £25M turnover, £8 million disappeared in "admin" and they awarded themselves all bonus's ... and frankly if they can't sell out the entire GB team to their sponsors for more than £25M a year (30 seconds at the superbowl costs $7M) they aren't worth jack...
The thing is they aren't meant to be running a business.. the athletes allowances come from government sponsored gambling (yet another thing shouldn't be happening) so all they have to do is pay themselves for picking who gets to go and funding.
twisted pencil
Just backing up a bit. Having a race sanctioned via BC means you have some cover in the event of an incident IIRC, I used to run BMX races but it was a while back now.
Not having to deal with third party insurance companies for race insurance was a massive boon to a volunteer run event. I suspect most UK cycle events are BC backed for this reason.
That's totally fair...but I guess the problem is would someone more appropriate not be doing it if BC hadn't got it by default?
BC only have one KPI and that's Olympic Gold medals... mixing that up with anything else seems counterproductive to BMX/MTB or just cycling in general. 90% of effort is directed towards something I think is worse than worthless.. Olympic medals for a country... whilst everything else falls into the 10% of other things
I’d be really curious as to why so few came and played.
Because unless you’re American and want the chance at the national jersey what’s the point. Your job is to race world cups and your home national championship not someone else’s
Edit - Ignore, I'm late to the party on the article.
It always amazes me what people on here consider to be middling or average salaries.
If you want to feel like a bougie fat cat too, nearly half the world population earns less than $2/day.
Which is more surprising, the CEO of a medium sized enterprise earning about double the national average, or that an average person in the UK person earns about 50x the world median?
That’s totally fair…but I guess the problem is would someone more appropriate not be doing it if BC hadn’t got it by default?<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji'; background-color: #eeeeee;" />BC only have one KPI and that’s Olympic Gold medals… mixing that up with anything else seems counterproductive to BMX/MTB or just cycling in general. 90% of effort is directed towards something I think is worse than worthless.. Olympic medals for a country… whilst everything else falls into the 10% of other things
And who would that "someone more appropriate" be?
As with all sports organising bodies in the UK, medals, be that Olympic or other major event, are only part of their remit. A large chunk of their funding is dependant on grassroots and engagement. Otherwise why would they bother with things like Let's Ride?
I don't think BC are perfect, but I do think they do a reasonable job at promoting and supporting a lot of cycling in the UK.