Just as I'm trying to get into a routine of early morning/fasted road rides to build up some mileage, the freezing temperatures arrive!
I've never quite got my head around when freezing temps = black ice, e.g. what duration and how cold is required?
Next week on Tuesday and Thursday MET office seem to think it will slip below 0 briefly overnight after a damp day on Monday, and will be 0/1C by them time I get out at 6am.
I guess I just need to have the indoor turbo setup on standby but any clever hacks for predicting black ice?
Ta
It normally gets noticed shortly before you're hip hits the tarmac.
It normally gets noticed shortly before you’re hip hits the tarmac.
I still remember someone on here, I think, saying that they were riding to work when somebody rode past and shouted 'I See Badgers!!' Our hero was puzzled until they hit the floor because of Icy Patches.
One winter, I came off on ice on every day of the week. One of my colleagues asked why I was continuing to ride in and I replied that I can't crash every day. I did.
Under trees - more likely to be damp patches that may freeze. Breezy day - gaps where the breeze can go across the road ie gates - more likely to freeze. You canb get a decent guess from the colour of the road surface. White has grip - so large whitish patch with a smaller black patch in it - likely to be black ice. dips in the road where colder air can pool
But really - very hard to predict
As above, you basically can't, even if you know the route very well, where the sun hits and when etc.
I used to have a 30-40 min commute to HWU outside Edinburgh and despite knowing the route well and being careful I'd still get caught out a couple times a year and hit the deck.
On memorable time I properly cheesgratered myself on rough tarmac and had to go buy some TCP on arrival at work and then scrub everything clean...others arriving after me commented on how the showers stank of disinfectant :-/
When I was commuting at 0600-0630, once the "feels like" forecast was +2C or colder the night before, I'd usually fit the 45Nrth Gravdal tyres (that came from CTBM 8 years ago) to my fatbike/hybrid and keep them on until around spring.
On the odd days when the temp was unusually warmer, I'd inflate the tubes to more typical 38mm slick pressures of ~60 front and 70 rear.
In my experience, if its a road you'd want to ride on there's much more chance of black ice, main roads are almost always fine.
Be aware of temps dropping suddenly over night, after rain, or rain coming in early if it's been really cold in preceding days.
I've crashed on black ice twice, once on a minor road when it was just cold and had been raining, the other when it really should have been gritted, raining in the evening and forecast to go down towards freezing in the early hours. Neither was fun, but the main road one was scary and painful. These days its either on the turbo or off road when it's cold.
- This is the main road crash on Gopro, was doing about 25mph when the tyres just disappeared with no warning.
black ice can occur from 4’C, so it sounds like the timing of your rides ain’t great at all. Only other options are off road or indoors…?
Funny, I had 5°C in my head as a red flag for black ice, can't remember if that was personal experience or maybe I asked the same question on here last year!
I had written off going off-road just for the perceived faff factor and the likelihood it would end up not being the 'easy' miles I was looking for, but I guess it's worth a try, even just doing laps of the local golf course maintenance paths!
the secret to those rides if you want to remain upright - is to fit the wintermarathons and not be bothered.
I do struggle a little with the shoulder seasons - ending up riding round on ricecrispies on dry warm tarmac for 2/3 rides. but once winter sets in - its just not worth the risk . - YMMV i'm in the north east.
Councils publish gritting maps eg
https://www.essexhighways.org/roads-and-pavements/winter-travel/salting-routes
I just stick to these on winter mornings.
the secret to those rides if you want to remain upright – is to fit the wintermarathons and not be bothered.
£60 a pair for the cheaper variants in a 35mm, I guess I could stick them on the singlespeed and just accept those rides might be a little harder than ideal for Z2 purposes lol!
Quite like that idea...
I live in a fairly rural spot, and it is utterly lethal some days, we just don't leave the house, even walking the roads not an option
We has cars abandoned everywhere on the last bad day, several gone straight through hedges.
Zwift never seemed like a better idea
Councils publish gritting maps eg
Good shout, I've used those in the past but as prawny sort if alluded to, our council basically doesn't grit any of the roads I would want to ride, and the roads they do grit would be too dangerous for my liking on a dark winter morning.
Swerve it entirely - off-road route or get on the turbo. Even the hardest, gnarliest roadies park it up when ice is on the roads - you'll bounce more often than not but a broken wrist or collarbone is your season bolloxed, hip is worse.
In my experience, if its a road you’d want to ride on there’s much more chance of black ice, main roads are almost always fine.
Had almost an entire ride come down on a patch of black ice on the A6 north of Matlock about 25 years ago...20 odd of us sliding down the road on various bits of anatomy and reynolds tubing! Thankfully just after some roadworks, so only going 10-12mph while we regrouped. No injuries to report...
Funny, I had 5°C in my head as a red flag for black ice, can’t remember if that was personal experience or maybe I asked the same question on here last year!
The black ice warning on most cars is programmed to be on below 5°C, but it depends on a few factors.
I fit studded tyres when the nasty weather approaches and take them off around February ish when it looks like the worst is past. This is on my commuting bike which often has kids on.
Otherwise I pay attention to the weather forecast knowing that is often 3°C colder in my suburb than the city centre forecast and have a thermometer outside the house (transmits to a display indoors) for a quick reference when I get out of bed.
off-road route or get on the turbo
Yeah... Much as I like the idea of winter-proofing the singlespeed I had resolved to STOP spending money on the bikes this winter... Got to work with what I've got, cheeky laps of Gleneagles golf course in the dark then haha
Temperature alone isn't reliable - needs moisture for the ice. I've commuted well below zero and been fine.
We had a disastrous club ride a couple of years ago. If ice is forecast we cancel rides or go later. Forecast suggested it would be 2-3° at 8am, but there was some light rain in the night, and something just made me think an extra hour in bed would be a good idea.
Apparently the roads were fine when folk rode to the ride start for 8.30, but the temperature suddenly dropped and by 8.45, 4 of our 5 ride groups had crashed, 3 riders were hospitalised. It's known as Black (Ice) Sunday. We are now over cautious with weather forecasts, and this is why.
our council basically doesn’t grit any of the roads I would want to ride, and the roads they do grit would be too dangerous for my liking on a dark winter morning.
same here in south Lanarkshire. If it’s been close to or below zero overnight my rule of thumb is no road ride until air temp on our outside thermometer is 4 degrees or above.
My Wattbike and Zwift sees most of my riding mileage from November through March.
I find that going to the hassle of fitting studded tyres to my commuter means there will then be 8 frost free weeks. Taking them off and then refitting seems to reset the counter too. The noise of the studs on the tarmac really starts to get to me...
I do ride on a non-treated shared use path so sometimes it can (in truth) be incredibly slippery. I know it is icy when I see dog walkers behaving like penguins.
I just don’t get why you’d even risk it if there was the chance of ice? Especially as you have a turbo at home!
Well hence the question really, I don't want to risk it so am not prepared to go out if I know it's icy.
However being able to ride outdoors, even if its dark or cold (easily mitigated by lights and clothing) makes it easier for me to stick to my very flimsy training plan. At this time of year I'm saving any hard rides for the weekend, so I can go out and enjoy smashing around in the mud on my CX bike.
Midweek I want to stick to easier rides (Z2, as is the fashion 😎 ). I hate doing easy stuff indoors, really struggle to do any meaningful time/distance. If I can find a way to keep getting outdoors it will guarantee I stick with the plan. Granted maybe if I some sort of VR platform with a smart trainer I might find easy indoor miles more bearable, but that would still cost significantly more than just sticking some ice spikes on the singlespeed!
At this time of year ice is less likely because there is still residual warmth in the ground. Later on in the winter, not so much. The key thing is to keep an eye on moisture levels. Even when its very cold, if the air has been dry then there can be surprisingly little ice. I used to commute at 05:30 in the morning & I only once got caught out. As above, main roads are your friend as well. Personally I wouldn't risk a long training ride early in the day if its cold. Doubly so if the ride is in the dark.
I commute on the bike, so I swap over to the wheels with the ice tyres as the hint of frost. Did one day this week on them. Only takes 3 minutes to swap over. I've come off on ice before and it's no fun.
I sympathise with the OP- I used to decline to road ride if the temperature was below 4 degrees here (in central Manchester) on the basis I assume this means the country lanes are probably more like 2-3 degrees.
But, as others have said, it became clear quite quickly that the temperature alone didn't really mean much and my Strava feed would later be full of people's road rides in the exact same lanes at the exact same times I had avoided going out.
So no answers from me really but I kind of take a policy approach now so if its 2 degrees or less here and its also been wet, I just plan something else- but this is mainly just to avoid 8hrs of procrastinating/see-sawing over my decision making in the preceding day as I find I just end up annoying myself and its easier to just call it one way or another early-on, and plan something different.
I try to convince myself that its thawed during the morning so ride in the afternoon. But I'm really a morning person so I often end up failing dismally endnote riding at all
In my experience, I feel like it's something I've become better at predicting over time, but I couldn't tell you exactly why. It's the little details, temperature alone tells you very little. If it was raining through the night and temps have dropped below freezing, I won't be going anywhere. Same for freeze, thaw, freeze cycles. Dry roads on crisps winter mornings, I'll be straight out, just stay out of the shadows.
I've found myself sliding along the road a few times and I can't say I could guarantee not to be doing it again. It's always a risk a certain temps, but in very specific conditions that risk grows exponentially. Black ice is the worst because it so often occurs on days when the casual observer least expects it.
Not a universal solution, but if I HAD to ride on potentially ice roads, I'd try to use roads I know that have rough tarmac as opposed to newly resurfaced roads with smooth surfaces and/or ride in any gritty sections and/or any strips of dirt alongside the road.
Obviously, this depends on local knowledge but might be helpful if you're caught out on a late afternoon ride in dropping temperatures...
No way would I deliberately go out (on road) early morning in marginal conditions - mountain biking can be a lot less stressful in those sort of conditions!
Be aware of temps dropping suddenly over night, after rain, or rain coming in early if it’s been really cold in preceding days.
That's it. I use the 5 degrees after midnight metric, if it's already wet or been raining overnight. As the autumn progresses, everything cools down. You can get black ice in late October/early November (Cambs) but generally the risk is higher from late November through to end of February. And yes, I've done plenty of black ice body surfing. Some of it funny and some bloody painful...
It's not just black ice, there are days when cold and damp smoother surfaces are super greasy. Tyres let go really easily
Leafy mulch, mud and diesel, horrible on a damp surface
That's before you factor in other road users
Be very careful on bridges, they don't get the warmth from the ground so can have ice when everywhere else is fine.
Heavily trafficked roads nearly always fine, if unpleasant. Crossing unsalted footpaths or carparks can catch you out even when roads are fine.
My approach is take mtb and head off road. CX bike wouldn't give me much more confidence on icy tarmac than a road bike.
Be very careful on bridges, they don’t get the warmth from the ground so can have ice when everywhere else is fine.
Yeah, there's a bridge i use on the way to work, some mornings it's the only icy bit, some cold mornings it's like an ice rink and lots of cars struggle to get up (or down) the ramps.
Riding the council gritting map routes may ensure that you get pebble dashed and blinded with road salt, it's not fun.
Don’t ride when it might be icy.
As a paramedic I usually end up taking 3 or 4 people to hospital who “just had to get their training ride in, even though it’s cold out” every winter, and I know I’m not alone. Usually for broken collar bones or hips, but also head and face injuries
Another really important thing to remember (possibly THE most important thing) is that most paramedics are not cyclists and they WILL NOT (!!!!!! ) let you take your very very expensive bike in the back of the ambulance no matter how much you beg (I usually do unless you’re really badly injured) and won’t hang around for your partner to drive out and get it.
I just ride the gritted routes as per the council map. It also shows a trace of where the gritters have been. I'm in Ayrshire and we are lucky in that there is a decent selection of gritted roads that are quiet.
fit the wintermarathons and not be bothered.
They do sound like sizzling bacon so don't be surpised if you're extra ravenous after a ride
Three wheels good. Upright or recumbent. Some cheap trikes about at the moment.
Don’t ride when it might be icy.
I'll never forget the February commute I did about a decade ago, up nice and early, lovely new thermal Bibs on. First tumble was 10 foot from the front door, by the time I got to the office I'd been off twice more including one proper high speed tumble on a busy roundabout that really should have been gritted. The knees on my lovely new Bibs were shredded...
Lessons learned:
1- Sometimes (if you can) choosing not to ride isn't the worst option.
2- It's slightly better, financially, to destroy a pair of knee warmers than a pair of 3/4 bibs.
3- Riding fixed is great fun, except on ice..
There's a good reason Zwift is more popular during winter...
THE most important thing) is that most paramedics are not cyclists and they WILL NOT (!!!!!! ) let you take your very very expensive bike in the back of the ambulance no matter how much you beg
The one time I was scooped up (RTA: bike vs car not winter), the crew put my boik in the back and it was stored in the next bay in A&E. Sadly, the damage was terminal and the poor old gal was put to sleep...
I commute year round. So regularly below zero in winter.
Busier roads are better - traffic melts the ice. Not much fun to ride though. Once you get out of urban areas it is likely to mean busier A roads.
Club ride I was on a couple of years ago we had 1 broken collar bone and a broken hip. 2 of the gang out for most of the winter.
I went home that day and started to build my winter cave.
Used to commute regularly when living in Switzerland in -10 but the roads and cycle paths were treated. But salt destroyed my chain and cassette.
Temperature alone isn’t reliable – needs moisture for the ice. I’ve commuted well below zero and been fine.
This. I do plenty of riding in cold conditions, but only if it's been dry. Otherwise I stick to gritted roads, but that doesn't always work if you have to turn into a side road at some point. I did a huge slide once because of that, making a real mess of my thigh and wrist.
If it gets to the point I need to think about it, I don't ride these days (having come off on ice a few times). But living in the far south, we don't get much ice these days, thanks to climate change. Maybe a week or two's worth? But frost on a north-facing descent is just as slippery, so I'm always aware of where the sun is and never speed over the crest of a hill in case the other side is frosty.
Unhelpful answer is it depends. For commuting I change parts of my route a bit to ride on busier roads that get gritted, and unless it's been pretty dry for a while I just skip weekend rides if it's much below 5 degrees. I used to go out more on the road bike but it's just not worth it. Chance of injury/holes in expensive jackets and tights/damage to components is just too high.
In my experience, if its a road you’d want to ride on there’s much more chance of black ice, main roads are almost always fine.
This really, and I don't like to ride on main roads.
I follow the council gritters info on twitter though haven’t checked if they have moved to Bluesky/threads they give a detailed forecast as going by temperature isn’t enough as air and ground temperatures can be wildly different.
If they are going to grit then I’m not going out as I want to ride on quiet roads not main routes, many a time I hear of collarbones/wrists/bruises etc on weekends I have sacked it off.
Yeah no way I'd be going out on roads with even a chance of ice without the studded tyres. Got them on a spare set of wheels, was dubious they'd be any good but they are brilliant.
Beautiful morning this morning, maybe 1 or 2°C but dry roads, no frost on windscreen.
Little patches here and there but could see well in advance and they weren't slippy.
Still verrrry tempted by studded tyres, am loving getting out on the crisp cold mornings right now, don't want to miss any opportunities.
I picked up a couple of weather stations from Lidls (£15 each).
one sensor dangles out my bedroom window in a mesh laundry bag. The other one dangles out my living room window.
so, until they’re blasted by the sun, it’s a pretty realistic indicator of actual temperature before I venture out.
studded tyres at this time of year (until April).
the amount of people doing their winter training on high end pinarellos, 23c tyres, no mudguards…makes me think that there’s a new niche for bikes.
Another stunner this morning and dragged the singlespeed Charge Plug out just to see if it's worth fitting studded tyres to.
Schwalbe do two different types of studded tyre, depending on the number of studs. Am tempted to go for a lower stud count as I imagine even the 'icy' rides will still be predominantly tarmac, unless the difference between 120 studs and 240 is so negligible that I might as well just go all-in?
I need to either swap to studded tyres or get a spare set of wheels with studded tyres for my Sonder Camino which I commute on in Aberdeen. My commute is on a mix of treated and untreated sections and I have always managed with standard tyres but I have maybe been lucky. I need to get on ebay and look for a second hand set of wheels.
Schwalbe do two different types of studded tyre, depending on the number of studs. Am tempted to go for a lower stud count as I imagine even the ‘icy’ rides will still be predominantly tarmac, unless the difference between 120 studs and 240 is so negligible that I might as well just go all-in?
I was looking at this as well. I think I will go for the lower stud count but not sure if that is a sensible choice or not.
I'm sort of hoping I can mitigate for fewer studs by just being careful, I'm just trundling about and taking it easy on corners etc. at this time of year, and since I might only be out once or twice a week max I'm hoping law of averages is on my side (touch wood!).
I have some ageing Schwalbe snow stud tyres in 35mm for the gravel bike, and some even older Ice Spiker Pros for the Soul (partly the reason I'm still on 26" wheels)
I've not come off using either, and the bigger Ice Spikers have seen me ride crazy compacted sheet ice/snow. You do need to be careful when putting a foot down though. Currently regretting not getting the Soul ready to go out for a lunchtime play.
They might only be used a few weeks a year but precovid and when I was commuting regularly, I justified it ( and MrsMC agreed!) by the cost offset against the cost of driving to the office. Probably took 2-3 winters to genuinely be worthwhile.
Now WFH is an option on icy days, I might not bother, but very grateful I still have them.
Cant speak for studded tyres with lower stud counts, but ive got Continental Spike Claw 240s (26er) and Schwalbe Ice Spikers (27.5). They are awesome on sheet ice (like at the Strathpuffer). Safer to cycle than to walk on it. They will be heavy, draggy and be noisy on tarmac. However in a previous job with a 30 mile round trip commute - i used them no worries.
The lesser studded ones have them on the outside edges of the treads, so need to run lower pressures presumably, to make them more effective?
An oldie but goodie - ice tyre test https://www.pinkbike.com/news/article2340.html
Most round here commute on the lower stud count tyres and take it a bit easier, or lower pressures if it's *very* icy.
I ride off road with some nokians with 300+ studs... The sparks when i get off the ice and on to the rocks are impressive.
You know those bloody jobs...
After being essentially nagged by this thread, I popped out to the garage to swap to winter studs on my commute/pub/town bike. Front, all good. Back was a bit off centre/misaligned/wobbly after fitting so I applied the usual extra PSI 's to get it to seat... Who knew the brake track was that ready to let go. It did frighten the cat tho... So, I'm now looking for a new rim and a wheel rebuild <sigh>
Years ago long before zwift, I'd happily ride the road bike with 23mm tyres in any weather conditions. I was never worried about snow and ice, even if i fell off. I would call my mates soft if they cancelled winter rides due to icy conditions. Then this happened:
It soon makes you realise its not worth the risk. It's not the falling off in icy conditions that is a concern, it's the risk of a 2 ton car skidding on ice and killing me that stops me from going out on the road in icy conditions.
Had a very rare sight waking up to snowfall in Hampshire in November this morning, thankfully it didn't stick on the roads and I survived popping out on my hybrid with the usual Marathon Supremes.
Ice warning over night tonight, but I have no plans to go out.
I was looking at this as well. I think I will go for the lower stud count but not sure if that is a sensible choice or not.
I have a set of the lower stud count ones. the studs are on the side of the tyre not the crown. If the pressure in them is high just riding along the studs do not really contact the ground, on ice you slide then as the tyre tips over it grips. Lower the pressures and the studs make contact the whole time - so what I did was lowish pressures with a lot of ice, higher pressures with just an occasional bit
It did frighten the cat tho… So, I’m now looking for a new rim and a wheel rebuild <sigh>
What else did the cat shred while it was on it's way out of the vicinity?
The joys of rim brakes. Don't pump them up in a cellar as the bang sounds even louder.
When the air temp is below freezing you start to see sparkles on the road surface and on foliage etc from your lights. Salt on the road can sparkle a bit but it's not the magical twinkly kind of sparkle that frost gives. It's not 100% reliable indicator of ice because there can still be ice on the road when the air has warmed a bit, but it's something to look for. If you see sparkles then a dark patch on the road, prepare for impact. In the dry, night-time tarmac is actually pretty light in colour - dark patches mean caution. You can also generally see when a road has been salted. Crucially - don't go fast at any point.
I've done a lot of night rides in freezing conditions and I have yet to fall off using the above advice.
The joys of rim brakes. Don’t pump them up in a cellar as the bang sounds even louder
I was a bit surprised when the local TSG showed up shouting 'show me your (oily) hands!' etc 🙂
One of my nearest-death moments on a bike was cycling home from work one crisp frosty evening and receiving an unnecessary high speed close pass from behind from Cambridgeshire gritting lorry on a residential urban street. He must have been doing about 50mph and it was so fast and so close I barely had time to realise I was probably about to die before it was over and he had torn off again into the night.
When the air temp is below freezing you start to see sparkles on the road surface and on foliage etc from your lights. Salt on the road can sparkle a bit but it’s not the magical twinkly kind of sparkle that frost gives. It’s not 100% reliable indicator of ice because there can still be ice on the road when the air has warmed a bit, but it’s something to look for.
Was reminded of this advice this morning! Bigger ride planned so out early. MET suggested no lower than 2°C overnight and 3°C when I set off. Ground was damp though. Saw a few sparkles here and there so was on high alert and right enough encountered a few ice patches, thankfully was prepared for them but after the third little wheel spin I decided I'd pushed my luck so trundled home.
Had relinquished my credit card in attempt to get it paid off so will need to clear out some old parts from the garage to pay for those studded tyres!
Yeah - in still weather cold air collects in the smallest of hollows so overall temps can be just above freezing but you can still find sparkles and ice.
I was 50/50 swapping to studs this morning, but 3c and rain, I just took my time into work.
Couldn't even walk up the lane to my place on sunday. Whole thing was glassy piece of sheet ice.
Saw Stefan and his girlfriend heading out on their ebikes about lunchtime, Nokian studs all round.
I am still very wary of black ice after hitting a sheet of ice one November and ending up sliding along the road with my car on its roof. Aged 18 and inexperienced driver at the time. The streets were just wet when I left home late evening. As the road left the town and came out of the shelter of trees at the crest of a hill it turned to a sheet of ice. So slippy the recovery truck couldn't recover my car just spinning wheels on the ice.
Freak conditions. In the decades since I've only seen sheet ice like that a few times.
I like to think I would see the signs now. Temp not far above freezing. Clear skies. Roads not gritted. Possibly light steering.
As far as cycling goes. I don't want to risk a broken hip in my 60s. Any chance of ice I'll go for a swim or a jog on the golf course rather than ride my bike.
Awesome, a ruthless clearout of the garage has yielded the money for some studs, so should I go for 120 stud 700x35mm Schwalbes or 120 stud 700x32mm Continental Top Contact?
Contis are 150g lighter a tyre (stated weights) which is appealing, don't mind the narrower width for tarmac trundling...
Tomorrow AM a write-off though, will be the first indoor session of the winter, boo!
Spa Cycles do the Schwalbe in a 700x30
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m14b0s142p3917/SCHWALBE-Winter-HS396
I fitted a pair to a hybrid for my son who who rides to work every day. He reports this past 10 days using them a few times. Good grip on ice and only slightly slower. A bit lighter than the 700x35 version I assume.