In prep for a season of xc racing I've been heading to the gym a few times a week this winter in addition to the regular weekly rides I get in. Whilst my winter mileage has come right down as per usual, the gym sessions have meant that I've put in more winter exercise than the past 2 years and structured work outs on the gym bikes have meant I've maintained a good deal of anerobic power from Summer / Autumn racing(something I usually lose during winter).
Post rides I usually gulp down a Forgoodnessshake or something similar prior to a prpoer meal however over the past month I've been leaving the gym quaffing a banana and 400ml of protein shake (Reflex - approx 50g of protein per 400ml with skimmed milk). It should probably come as no surprise I suppose but even after sessions where I've literally fallen off the gym bike at the end I'm not feeling nearly as fatigued a day or so after. Is this the protein or simply that 30-45mins on a gym bike will never compare to 2hrs of hard xc riding?
I might have already answered my own question but I always thought that post ride it was crucial to replace glycogen levels with something carb based however I'm feeling much better with the high protein based diet I'm currently using. I'll be curious to see how I feel when 100-200 xc riding miles/week start to become the norm again and whether carbs are more important than protein for exercise longer than shoter gym sessions.
Any views / advice / experience from the STW racers on here?
protein for muscle repair & carbs for replenishing glycogen stores
My understanding is that your body wants carbs & protein in the appropriate proportions - I forget what that is but you'll find it online.
Milk comes quite close to the ideal proportions but is light on Carbs - hence the chocolate milk shake idea works quite well.
Ive just read this, going over it a second time now as there is a lot to take in but i think its an amazing book.
Nutrition is 90% of the content.
[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Weight-Matt-Fitzgerald/dp/1934030511 ]Racing Weight[/url]
Reading Racing Weight too with the aim of getting my body fat down to 10% or below. Currently at around 17%.
Carbs are your body's first choice for energy, the protein rebuilds muscle. Hard to say why you feel better the next day, it's probably cos the workout is shorter, but it'll all depend on intensity.
A good default training diet would be to get 60% of your calorie intake from carbs, 20% from protein and 20% fat (obviously try to avoid the bad fats). I drink a post workout smoothie that I make to the gym that's pretty much those proportions and it doesn't even taste too bad. 🙂
Nutrition is a very complex subject as I am finding out myself. If anyone claims to have all the answers, they are lying, not least because our bodies/metabolisms/needs are all different. I think a degree of experimentation is required, but obviously you want to be pointed in the right direction. Have heard that Racing Weight book ^^^^ recommended several times so it sounds like a good place to start, not read it myself but I'll probably pick it up on Kindle and read it over the weekend myself!
I think you have to start by considering what you want to achieve with your PWO nutrition. If you want to lose weight, I don't think cramming carbs in is sensible. If you've depleted your glycogen from a VERY intense training session then obviously carbs will replenish the supply which is helpful if you want to train again tomorrow, otherwise I would have thought that normal eating (starchy foods) will top them up naturally in a day or so. If you have just done a weights session (or some heavy singlespeeding!) then extra protein is essential to help stimulate the muscles repair/rebuild. Otherwise, i think you'd probably get enough from normal eating.
I think diet is often over-emphasised when it comes to recovery, and proper rest/sleep, stretching/foam rolling etc are under-emphasised. IMO, YMMV, etc. I'm learning about this stuff too so counter-arguments appreciated!
This is very, very generalised. Could be good advice for some people, totally wrong for others. Plenty of low-carbers doing (well) on ultras these days, for example.Carbs are your body's first choice for energy, the protein rebuilds muscle. Hard to say why you feel better the next day, it's probably cos the workout is shorter, but it'll all depend on intensity.A good default training diet would be to get 60% of your calorie intake from carbs, 20% from protein and 20% fat (obviously try to avoid the bad fats).
Be carefull not to fall into the supplement trap. I use USN products and they work with me well for my gym sessions, usually in the gym every day working to failure.
Whilst they provide a great way of getting everything the body needs quickly, some people underestimate the importance of sitting down and eating a good hearty meal, the amount us hungry bikers can eat usually surpasses what any shake can provide and it provides all kinds of wonderful thing's the body need's including some time to sit back, eat, relax which is the key to the bodies recovery.
The supposed ideal porportion is 4:1 carbs:protein (with the carbs made up of 2:1 maltodextrin:fructose). Although that's for rapid carb absorbtion, there isn't enough protein to make a difference to your muscles.
I make mine the other way, with loads of protein and just a bit of carbs, trying to lose weight so minimising the calories. I could eat nothing after the gym, but that gaurenteed to result in necking a pork pie or six whilst waiting for dinner. Just small ammount of carbs seems to stop the muscles feeling completely fatigued the next day.
zilog6128,
Your last staement is worth it's weight in gold, a good friend who's putting plans together for me, a lad who'll certainly be turning pro for the Dragons soon is a sod for burning the candle at both end's and burning out when lifting with the big boys (not me!) he's regularly told that he neglects his bed and warm-ip's, cool-down's etc..
From a scientific standpoint, the best thing to do after intense exercise is to eat carbs (roughly 2g/kg body mass/hour) and break it down into servings every 30 mins over the 4 hours post exercise. That will maximise your glycogen resynthesis. It has been argued that adding protein to recovery nutrition is just a way of filling you up, it doesn't do anything carbs can't in the 4 hour post exercise.
In terms of protein, I guarantee everyone on here gets the recommended 1.2g/kg body mass/ day that athletes training heavily need, and more if you like steak as much as me! So adding protein in a recovery shake is just going to get peed out unless you are eating VERY little protein elsewhere.
The above is based on the teachings of some learned PhDs in this area, and when you look at the evidence from clinical trials its hard to disagree, although I'm sure someone will 😆
You sure about that? For an 80kg individual like me that would be almost 100g of protein (which does sound reasonable) which equates to 2x 250g servings of steak/fish per day, EVERY day. This is what I try to do, normally my portions aren't quite that big though. I have a 25g protein shake with lunch every day to make sure. I seriously doubt that [i]everyone[/i] is having 2 servings of quality protein [i]every day[/i] especially as most people seem to equate healthy eating with pasta/salad/etc. Just to be contrary 😀In terms of protein, I guarantee everyone on here gets the recommended 1.2g/kg body mass/ day that athletes training heavily need, and more if you like steak as much as me! So adding protein in a recovery shake is just going to get peed out unless you are eating VERY little protein elsewhere.
[i]A good default training diet would be to get 60% of your calorie intake from carbs,[/i]
Thats a scary level / duration of activity to use all those carbs.
😯
Perhaps bare in mind, your body can synthesize carbohydrate from protein.
So, should your body need carbs, it [b]may[/b] get them from protein. I do not believe the reverse is true.....
Furthermore, any adipose tissue / body fat, can be accessed to replace glycogen.
So, personally. I'd ease up on the carbs, [u]BUT !, I wouldn't cut them out entirely[/u]. While trying to ensure a sensible protein intake, with respect to overall calories consumed, etc, etc.
EDIT:
I wouldn't suggest that one purposely focused on protein as an energy supply.
Bennyboy said this: (amongst other stuff)
and 400ml of protein shake (Reflex - approx 50g of protein per 400ml with skimmed milk)
That works for me, although I use MyProtein whey protein.
Daily protein intake will depend on activity, 1.2g/Kg is at the bottom end, recommendations are 1.2-1.7g/Kg even as high as 2g/Kg if lifting heavy. I find a protein shake makes it easier to hit these amounts.
YMMV of course, experimentation is needed, as it's been said before what works for one person may not work for another..
I'm going to look out Racing Weight, thanks for the pointer.
The existence of protein is not limited to steak and fish you know?
If you eat a healthy dinner within an hour after you finish training I really can't see the need to take anything additional.
However if I know that it will be an hour plus before I re-fuel then I will take a protein drink directly after a hard session, else water is sufficiant. This is most likely more placebo but I feel better for it.
You can get 25g of protein from 500ml of milk, cheese is also 30-40% protein, also eggs, yoghurt, beans, nuts, peanut butter, butter etc all have protein. If you add it all up you can easily reach 100g. To qualify my comment, 0.8g/kg/day is recommended if you are sedentary. Most people are somewhere in between.
The whole point of doing it by kg is to maintain body weight, so yes bigger people eat more, but thats obvious. If you were looking to loose weight, eat the amount of nutrients recommended for someone a little lighter, and that is a way of bringing portion sizes down.
Healthy eating as I see it isn't about eating salads, it's about balance. So you still need protein in your diet to repair muscle damage from exercise, and you still need carbs as fuel, especially for high intensity stuff. You just don't need all the processed snacks etc.
60% of your calorie intake from carbs
Is is reasonable, but as mentioned above, for people who are active. If you ride 4+ times a week, 65% carb, 20% fat and 15% protein is reasonable. Your fat and protein demands don't increase as much as your carb demands when exercising. So if you don't exercise much, yes it's the carb which needs to be cut down.
right, I forgot the bodybuilder's favourite, the skinless chicken breast 😆The existence of protein is not limited to steak and fish you know?
I'm going to look out Racing Weight, thanks for the pointer.
Another thanks - i've been looking for some guidance to lose a couple of pounds before a mid Feb event and beyond - now on my kindle.
Carbs or protien you ask?
Both, and fat. No one seems to agree on the magic ratio but it seems to work out roughly to % of energy consumed should be 20% fat 20-30% Protein and the rest carbs.
Chocolate milk is perfect for this.
I use Recovery XS from myprotien. It has the balanced protien and carbs but also vit c and minerals for dehydration. I find it very good after long hard bike sessions.
As my post above alludes to I've let my diet go to pieces recently so I will point out that I did use it top up a diet which was orientaed towards said balance as much as possible, not just by itself.
that's because the idea of a "magic ratio" is complete bollocks. It completely depends on who you are, what exercise you do and what you hope to achieve.No one seems to agree on the magic ratio
Is a pint of beer and a pie not sufficient then? I've been doing this all wrong...
[i]Is a pint of beer and a pie not sufficient then?[/i]
Perfectly so.
Carry on.
Plenty of carbs and micronutrients in (proper) beer. Lots more carbs and hopefully a bit of protein in the pie. Probably not so different than most "recovery" drinks.
Apart from the oodles of saturated fat, salt & sugar....
[i]saturated fat, salt & sugar....[/i]
Sugar ?, in pie. Thats a Cake isn't it ?.
Sugar ?, in pie. Thats a Cake isn't it ?.
Loads in the beer.
And alcohol messes up the body's ability to recover. You spend all that time on the bike tearing your muscles apart so that they can grow back stronger. Throw a pint or two in and you end up worse than you started (lots of muscle damage, nill recovery).
Quite, not sure that's relevant when viewed strictly from the point of view of recovery PWO though.Apart from the oodles of saturated fat, salt & sugar....
I don't think one pint is going to totally negate any recovery your body might make, if had with food.Throw a pint or two in and you end up worse than you started (lots of muscle damage, nill recovery).
TINAS.
Yes, alcohol inhibits the release of hormones required to build / repair muscle.
However, according to what your [i]goals[/i] may be.
A pint and a pie might be just the ticket....
😉
Also in pies, specifically factory made versions
[i]in pies[/i]
Horse ?.
Horses eat pies?
[i]Horses eat pies?[/i]
Only if they're in training.
Good for PWOR.
Thanks for info above, some good links to follow up on. Ta.
As a veggie I'll have no need for the horse burger pie protein though! 😉