Forum menu
Possible demise of ...
 

Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle

 a11y
Posts: 3941
Full Member
 

AND still giving out Haribo!

So THAT'S why they're in such financial difficulties!


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 2:34 pm
Posts: 3535
Full Member
 

And at least he tries to keep the high street going

He (Frasers) owns a number of prominent buildings in our town and he's left them all empty.  H&M were in one and were evicted so he could put one of his brands in there, then never bothered doing it, so it's sat empty now.

He also has the old BHS and Debenhams buildings, both sat empty.

Meanwhile, Sports Direct is on the 1st floor of a building, out of the way of the main high-street.

When they bought Game, they closed the store and moved it into Sports Direct, so another shop (which I think is still owned by them) sat empty.


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 2:34 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 14766
Full Member
 

I was rather surprised when a Sports Direct opened in Matlock this year

As was I. Surely a loss leader and will be closed soon. There isn't the footfall to sustain that store there


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 2:35 pm
Posts: 14103
Full Member
 

...growing market for it though - Matlock is rapidly becoming a Sports Direct kinda town! 🙂


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 2:50 pm
Posts: 5909
Free Member
 

…growing market for it though – Matlock is rapidly becoming a Sports Direct kinda town! 🙂

Nah, it's got an M&S Food! And the 'Spoons has gone.


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 3:03 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 35036
Full Member
 

Aren’t you supposed to stop trading if you declare insolvency?

Perhaps there's a different rules where they're based? (I don't think they're a UK company are they?) 🤷‍♂️

Looks like both have their websites up and are still taking orders (although Bikester are saying they can’t do returns at the moment).

The Bikester one redirects to Wiggle now and won't let you place an order from the UK


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 3:29 pm
Posts: 3605
Free Member
 

The Bikester one redirects to Wiggle now and won’t let you place an order from the UK

It's been like that since the arrival of the new website.


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 3:49 pm
kelvin and kelvin reacted
Posts: 4109
Free Member
 

Aren’t you supposed to stop trading if you declare insolvency?

Insolvency is a condition, whether you declare it or not. It's being in a position where you cannot pay debts as and when they fall due. You can be insolvent but still profitable, and solvent but loss-making. You should not trade while insolvent.

You can continue trading if you're in administration. The administrator's magic statutory powers means they can suspend payments of the debts falling due so that the company can continue operations and be quasi-solvent until the underlying problem can be fixed. But the administrator has to give due notice to buyers and vendors that the company is in administration - and the buyer/vendor can decide if it's worth the risk of doing business.

(This is in general, in England and Wales. Who knows what happens in Germany or whatever...)


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 7:46 pm
Posts: 4109
Free Member
 

This Rene Benko geezer and Mike Ashley sound like they're two "colourful" entrepreneurs who would find a lot in common if they bumped into each other.

I’ll sell the trousers that were too big on eBay or here instead.

You could always try putting on a bunch of weight. It seems to work for me...


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 7:51 pm
thols2, joebristol, dissonance and 5 people reacted
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

You could always try putting on a bunch of weight. It seems to work for me…

😂


 
Posted : 24/10/2023 7:56 pm
joebristol, zerocool, zerocool and 1 people reacted
Posts: 1762
Free Member
 

I've got a Code R I purchased a month or so back that I don't really need now. I paid on a credit card so is it safe to risk a return do we think?

Has anyone else done a return in the last few days?


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 3:34 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I’ve got a Code R I purchased a month or so back that I don’t really need now. I paid on a credit card so is it safe to risk a return do we think?

Did it cost enough to be covered by section 75 anyway? (the brake had to be more than £100)

What have wiggle failed to deliver if it was? (wiggle having delivered the brake and your right to cancel not extending to about a month so I'm not sure what you'd be planning to rely on the cc protection for).

Are they accepting returns at the minute? (seem to think I saw a post up there saying otherwise).

Who arranges shipping if you do return it? (if the answer isn't them then if it doesn't get accepted at their end it's your risk. if it is them then in theory, so long as you've proof it was collected you may have recourse further down the line if needed.)

For a brake where losses aren't likely to be especially big I'd be deciding how much I think I'd get on ebay at this point.

FWIW I do wonder how much of a negative impact their ridiculously generous returns policy has had on their profitability.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 3:44 pm
Posts: 41848
Free Member
 

FWIW I do wonder how much of a negative impact their ridiculously generous returns policy has had on their profitability.

I doubt much?

If somethings faulty you can return it.

If something doesn't fit you can return it.

The only generous bit is that you get a year to decide if it fits or not, rather than the usual week to a month most shops allow. How many people are buying trousers and not wearing them for 364 days before raising a return request?


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 3:53 pm
Posts: 40432
Free Member
 

Yeah, marginal difference since they stopped covering the return postage IMO.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 3:56 pm
Posts: 16
Full Member
 

Mentioned earlier in the thread, in a piece of impeccable timing I ordered a bike on Wednesday evening. Then saw this story Thursday morning. Had a slightly nervous wait when bike appeared to be dispatched, but not in the hands of the courier for a few days according to the tracking. After a failed delivery attempt yesterday, I can confirm that the bike turned up today. Phew!
Was very well packed and appears to have been carefully built.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 4:06 pm
Posts: 1324
Free Member
 

It's 'Self-administration', right?

So, what the execs are probably doing is restructuring Sigma to be profitable. Keep the brands and retailers which look to have a future and then probably packing up the poorer bits to sell (maybe to Sports Direct).


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 4:10 pm
Posts: 844
Full Member
 

I ordered a cheap 11sp XT derailleur (only £48) on Friday, was delivered Monday. I've placed another order today, for more very competitively priced parts. Fingers crossed CRC keep things going...


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 4:12 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

How many people are buying trousers and not wearing them for 364 days before raising a return request?

It's the ones which have been used/worn particularly I'm thinking of.
Or the buy a brake etc on the off chance then send it back three months later when you've bought something better or didn't need it in the end by which point they've replenished stock etc.
Or the return it to rebuy it for £5 less than the previous one you bought and so on.

There's always a big part of any volume over distance selling that relys on the customer being too lazy/slow to return things like the two extra sizes of shoes they bought and so on. The longer a window you give the more likely they are too get round to it but also the more likely you are to end up with over stock, old delisted kit and do on.
The also the "it's a huge bargain so I'll buy it in spite of not wanting/needing it" side of things which is great for creating cash flow but coupled with 12 months returns gives a big chunk of time for buyers remorse to set in.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 4:16 pm
Posts: 46
Full Member
 

Are they accepting returns at the minute? (seem to think I saw a post up there saying otherwise).

Who arranges shipping if you do return it? (if the answer isn’t them then if it doesn’t get accepted at their end it’s your risk. if it is them then in theory, so long as you’ve proof it was collected you may have recourse further down the line if needed.)

Yes, my return was refunded yesterday (arrived there last Thursday evening).

Just dropped it off at a Evri collection point where they print the label for you and job done.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 4:33 pm
Posts: 11605
Free Member
 

It’s the ones which have been used/worn particularly I’m thinking of.

Do they not fall foul of any returns policy?


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 7:05 pm
Posts: 4331
Full Member
 

I placed an order for a bike on Monday, order has been processed and it's marked as dispatched.

I'm aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I'd be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 7:48 pm
Posts: 2113
Full Member
 

Ordered shoes Sunday evening, delivered today. No issues. 


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 7:50 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

It’s the ones which have been used/worn particularly I’m thinking of.

Do they not fall foul of any returns policy?

Up until fairly recently it was no quibble, to the point they almost encouraged returns of warranty stuff as it was quicker than warrantying it.

They willingly accepted used stuff.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 7:55 pm
Posts: 7972
Free Member
 

breadcrumb

I’m aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I’d be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.

You know any new owner is unlikely to be obligated to honour the contract between you and the previous owner of the company.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 8:02 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I’m aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I’d be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.

[guess mode] nukeproof will end up like muddy fox. Even if the retail arm stays that nukeproof USA has all but vanished makes me suspect it'll be gone in its current form. Expensive to develop, expensive to market, wiggle owned in a crowded market and it's going to be difficult to deliver the USP of value without the buying power of Signa behind them. Loss of supplier and reseller faith following this too.
It'll be sold off as a house brand to someone like Evans, halfords, go outdoors or decathlon. [/guess mode]


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 8:23 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

That. See above

Neil SuperstarComponents


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 9:00 pm
Posts: 4331
Full Member
 

You know any new owner is unlikely to be obligated to honour the contract between you and the previous owner of the company.

True. It's a gamble I'm willing to take. It's a £800 hardtail, with a quick search no real trend of broken frames.

Anymore than that and I wouldn't of been so eager.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 9:08 pm
Posts: 8904
Free Member
 

Wouldn't HAVE been so eager.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 9:31 pm
Posts: 6409
Free Member
 

nukeproof will end up like muddy fox

I mean, I remember nukeproof before nukeproof was nukeproof


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 9:45 pm
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

I mean, I remember nukeproof before nukeproof was nukeproof

You mean when they made hubs that you might have found on a fancy 90s mountain bike before they cracked?


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 10:20 pm
Posts: 4331
Full Member
 

Wouldn’t HAVE been so eager.

🫡


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 10:29 pm
Posts: 1103
Free Member
 

Surely Nukeproof is a viable brand worth picking up by investors, new products recently launched and extra team members this year suggests they were making a profit regardless of bad business practices by the ownership having lots of eggs in one big basket. It would be an absolute travesty if they vanished.


 
Posted : 25/10/2023 11:18 pm
Posts: 11605
Free Member
 

Bigger brands have come and gone, sometimes twice over.

Look at Iron Horse and Saracen. Plenty more where they came from. It's just a label at the end of the day, once this year's run is gone does it really make any difference?


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 12:18 am
Posts: 8037
Full Member
 

breadcrumb

I’m aware if they go under it could be tricky with warranty but I’d be surprised Nukeproof totally vanish.
______
You know any new owner is unlikely to be obligated to honour the contract between you and the previous owner of the company.

Agree not likely to see a warranty honoured IF Nukeproof ceased to exist in its current form (and this is all still speculation just now).

There is an argument that if you were buying a hardtail (especially) at current discounts you're unlikely to be far out of pocket even if you break one large ish part.

Let's say the frame breaks then you've still got an entire hardtail of parts at a good price.
With an FS the frame is a bigger part of the price and the economics might not be quite as good.

If I was in the market I'd have no qualms on a Scout but would accept I could end up shopping for a new frame a year or two down the line in the pretty unlikely event I cracked it.

Bit of a risk based decision. Cash benefit of a bargain vs. Probability of breaking it and needing to pay to replace some large part with part of the saving you already made.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 10:13 am
Posts: 41848
Free Member
 

Surely Nukeproof is a viable brand worth picking up by investors, new products recently launched and extra team members this year suggests they were making a profit regardless of bad business practices by the ownership having lots of eggs in one big basket. It would be an absolute travesty if they vanished.

IF they disappear it wouldn't surprise me. I guess they (and Vitus) would be hard to value as I doubt their non-CRC sales through LBS's make up much of their turnover? So if CRC goes, any buyer would need to start up from scratch with nothing more than some IP and a rolodex of contacts in Taiwan. They'd need:
New offices,
New staff (assuming all but a few are shared with other parts of the business).
New direct to consumer website?

Speaking of 90's bling brands I'd like to see make a comeback, I reckon Woodman would look good on the side of a range of XC/Trail bikes.

is there a responsibility on the previous owners to realize they are getting into a deal with the devil and think about maybe less growth/profit but greater long term stability?

Is this a thinly veiled British Empire / Gaza reference?


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 10:40 am
Posts: 40432
Free Member
 

I'm sure Nukeproof would be pleased people think it's such a solid brand.

It was only about 10 or 12 years ago they revived the brand name with that first, round-tubed Mega - and they've made some really good (if sometimes flawed) bikes since then.

Personally I'd like to see them successfully restructure CRC/Wiggle and keep Vitus attached, hopefully with Nukeproof as well.

I really don't think their prices were THAT low to be unsustainably undercutting everyone else. At least not until they started the big discounts this year when they were already in trouble.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 10:48 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

It was only about 10 or 12 years ago they revived the brand name with that first, round-tubed Mega

They've been making components a while longer than that. Not sure the brand ever disappeared as such but I think crc bought the name about 15-20 years ago and used it as a house brand for bars stems and the like for a number of years before they started doing frames.

I really don’t think their prices were THAT low to be unsustainably undercutting everyone else. At least not until they started the big discounts this year when they were already in trouble.

I seem to recall they were very much a bargain until the merger with wiggle when vitus took that mantle and NP became more of the premium house brand.

Iirc vitus was wiggle's house brand and as a result mostly road focused, NP was crc and mostly mtb. (part of me thinks that's wrong and wiggle's brand vanished but I can't think what it was called if it did)


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 10:54 am
Posts: 9043
Free Member
 

Speaking of 90’s bling brands I’d like to see make a comeback, I reckon Woodman would look good on the side of a range of XC/Trail bikes.

Were Woodman ever that "bling"? I remember them being pretty lightweight but non-descript parts - Woolly Hat Shop was a big dealer for them 🙂


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 10:55 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Woolly Hat Shop was a big deal

Ah, the 90s, we miss you.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:01 am
Posts: 6808
Full Member
 

Speaking of 90’s bling brands I’d like to see make a comeback, I reckon Woodman would look good on the side of a range of XC/Trail bikes.

Syncros coming back as proper Syncros would be nice. Or Klein as proper Klein with fancy paint done properly. Not that I'd want a Klein but it's good to have pretty things to look at.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:01 am
Posts: 7563
Free Member
 

Iirc vitus was wiggle’s house brand and as a result mostly road focused, NP was crc and mostly mtb. (part of me thinks that’s wrong and wiggle’s brand vanished but I can’t think what it was called if it did)

Vitus was bought by Chris and Frank from CRC, and was a CRC house brand.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:27 am
Posts: 7972
Free Member
 

If I remeber correctly CRC own X-Lite too which is a name some might know from 90s bling products.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:28 am
Posts: 14103
Full Member
 

Were you even a mountain biker in the 90s if your bike didn't sport X-Lite bar ends!! 🤔


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:30 am
Posts: 0
Free Member
 

Vitus was bought by Chris and Frank from CRC, and was a CRC house brand

You can't recall wiggle's old brand can you? It's bugging me quite a bit now, as these things do.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:31 am
Posts: 4331
Full Member
 

@garage-dweller

My thoughts exactly, if the frame were to fail (unlikely) it's only a HT frame, and it would give opportunity for something else at not much £££.

The forks will be swapped for a set of Pikes I have before it turns a wheel, the OE fork will be sold, knocking a few more quid from the purchase cost.


 
Posted : 26/10/2023 11:31 am
Page 12 / 41