[Closed] Posh (ish) mtb hubs

Boring Hubs = Good hubs

Just get some jazzy stickers for them.

Ah - I’ve got black Pro 4’s and DT 370’s - I want something special this time ideally. If not I’ll just get more black Hope’s I expect.

DT240 for the win. I have had many exotic hubs, but none perform better or are as easy to service.

I'd get some that it's easy to get bits for - adaptors, freehubs, seals, bearings etc

I acknowledge Hope and DT are the sensible option - but what if I’d like a little more exotic and less sensible?

Bearing in mind I’ve taken a bit of a risk ordering a custom frame from Peru that they’ll be going on....(Reynolds 725 tubing so reasonably nice albeit not quite 853 nice)

I've come to the realisation that if something contains bearings, just get what works and isn't clearly a cheap (would-insert-a-country-name-here-but-doing-so-will-doubtless-incite-racial-disturbance-in-the-current-climate-for-incromprehensible-reasons) knock-off.

Onyx Vesper is very nice indeed. Not like and very spendy, but the silence and near zero drag of the freehub is fantastic.

I’ve used King hubs for years, truly lovely things, but the ever changing hub/frame standards could potential negate them. Last couple of hubs I’ve bought have been Novatec, put simply they work. Not as nice as King or even Hope, but I’m not bothered.

Second the Onyx Vesper if you're after exotic and good, if you want the best choice for me it's boring old (or the new 2021 version) 240s, they just do the job well and are easy to maintain and get spares for

The answers got to be DT240's.

A mechanic mate was building wheels using these hubs for a XCO team on the World Cup circuit, I think they look lovely, available in nice colours too:

https://www.aivee.fr/en/18-moyeux

235 grams for a rear, 120 grams for a front.

XTR, obviously.

Tune - look good.
Newmen - from bike discount in Germany.
Royce - expensive but, apparently, v good.

No cup and cone bearings for me - so Shimano and King are out.

I’d rather just fit and forget cartridge bearings and replace them when they die. I’d rather spend my maintenance time on servicing suspension etc

DT Swiss 350s. You don’t need anything else.

Tune - that’s a make I’d forgotten about. Will add to the list to checkout prices etc.

This sounds tacky but I wonder what a hub that was finished in an oil slick finish would be like? Maybe too much tbh....maybe I’ll just stick to a Sram oil slick chain and call that enough bling.

I’d rather just fit and forget cartridge bearings and replace them when they die.

Sounds like boring hubs are exactly what you need 😅
DT ftw. Simply miles better than anything else at similar budget.
I love the silence and engagement of my onyx hubs, but v pricy.

Aren't the Onyx pretty heavy?
I've read quite a few tales where i9s turned out to be a bit of a maintenance headache. Puts me right off tbh.

I've never had an issue with Hope or Dt350s. Even on my new bike where I'm looking at posh XTR bits I can't see the point in paying any more. A set of Hydras is what, about £400 more than Pro4s? I'd spend that money on the Pike Ultimate upgrade tbh!

Fit forget and  ride. Unfortunately I must recommend XT. Dismiss artisan and bespoke. Nobody will see the hubs if you are shredding it. 😁 essentially it is high-quality bearings in an aluminium case. No need to complicate. XT wrote the blueprint and the rest seek your attention.

DT 240's.

Its like sticking a Chris King headset in. You just do it once.

I have some Easton x4's and try getting service out of Silverfish or even Easton themselves - forget it. To be told to look on Ebay for second hand parts is not real customer service.

Get something with backup!

Ivm in a similar situation - got a refund voucher for some failed wheels and looking to buy soem decent hubs and build them into XM481s.

Hope were my go to option having used them before, however DT350 are looking increasingly appealing as ive been enjoying my almost silent mavic ratchet freehub on the other bike - presume DTa are similarly quiet?

Any thoughts on straight pull option too?

Tune hubs are very posh & light hubs King hubs nice engineering but not light & expensive & to change axle etc expensive.
Am currently running Acros hubs very loud & not cheap, ratchet hub like DT Swiss similar weight to 240s

Absolute Black make some trick looking hubs.

XT weigh a ton and need ten times more maintenance than cartridge bearing hubs. Swapped mine for American Classic which are lovely, light n smoov. Think they’re out of business now. Shame.
Halo on my other bike, they make nice hubs.

Is it me or do the Absolute Black hubs only come in non-boost? I can’t decide if I like the shape of them or not but it’s definitely different.

Those Acros hubs are pretty light - they can go on the list.

So:

Hope Pro4 as the ‘cheap’ option and known quantity

DT 240 for lightness and reliability - the sensible option / but quite pricey.

Acros - very light, pretty expensive but do-able I think

Erase - also pricey but pretty light and really unusual I think

Industry 9 - best pickup by far out of all the options but very spendy.

240s or new 240.

DT 240/350, or if I could justify the cost definitely Onyx. I've noticed some alternative ratchet style hubs are a lot louder than DT. Got some older Newmen wheels and the rear hub is very loud, also the bearing adjustment system is crap but they have gotten rid of that since. Wouldn't fancy anything that buzzes like Industry 9 personally.

Fast engagement is key. Once you’ve tried an Onyx or a Hydra, everything else will feel broken. Like V brakes vs twinpot hydrolics Or a Mag 21 vs a Pike

I'm extremely happy with my 5yr old DT240s. The new ones look even better. I'll not look any further (though quiet running is essential for me so that rules many out).

do you want bling colours or just a light hub?

I've got 240s on my bike/240/350 combo on samuels bike and hope on lewis's bike.

only used hope for the bling orange colour or they would have been 240s as well.

Fast engagement is key

To a (actually quite low) point, I certainly wouldn’t pay more for more POE, beyond 70 odd.

I’ve recently got a hydra on the rear to replace a torch. It’s a lovely thing and the engagement is unreal. The noise it makes with the 690 points of engagement can be a bit too much though. It’s not as loud as the old torch but there’s something about the frequency of it that I find a bit annoying. Even when pushing the bike it sounds like you’re doing 50mph, I’ve had walkers leap out of the way when I’m just rolling along at walking pace. My mate has got an onyx hub, polar opposite but it’s amazing. The engagement is instant but there’s a softness to it when you stamp on the pedals, a bit rubbery yet very solid feeling at the same time. Almost damped. Hard to describe really. The thing I love the most though is it’s dead silent, When I’ve had a go on his bike all you can hear is the tyres gripping the trail, it’s ace.

Faster engagement is always a trade off as it necessitates a finer mechanism with smaller teeth. Even the sprag clutch Onyx hubs aren't immune to this, inside that clutch are loads of very small moving parts.

The finer the mechanism, the harder time it's going to have coping when stuff starts to get in past the seals and the more likely it is to fail or just require more regular servicing.

Obviously hubs made to very high tolerances with very good sealing can offset this to a degree, but if 'fit and forget' is your priority then I'd be wary of any super fast engaging hubs, especially if you're an all weather rider or not fond of working on them.

Royce or Mack hubs. Nice, unique and light.

DT 370 suck.
350 really good, 240 epic.

Other stuff is bling..

Pedal kickback becomes more pronounced with higher engagement point hubs on some suspension bikes. I've had all the DT ratchets, 18 teeth felt horrible, so much wasted crank rotation, 36 is just about right in my opinion. Got a 54 now which is nice, more than enough really, not too much buzz, but being on a VPP Intense I can feel a bit of kickback occasionally that probably wouldn't be noticeable with the 36.

Might be worth watching this:

hatter
Subscriber
Faster engagement is always a trade off as it necessitates a finer mechanism with smaller teeth. Even the sprag clutch Onyx hubs aren’t immune to this, inside that clutch are loads of very small moving parts.

The finer the mechanism, the harder time it’s going to have coping when stuff starts to get in past the seals and the more likely it is to fail or just require more regular servicing.

Obviously hubs made to very high tolerances with very good sealing can offset this to a degree, but if ‘fit and forget’ is your priority then I’d be wary of any super fast engaging hubs, especially if you’re an all weather rider or not fond of working on them.

While this is a sound theory, it should be noted that on most hubs, the chosen mechanism is located at the point where the hub shell and freehub body come apart.

On the Onyx, the sprag bearing is actually in-between the two hub shell bearings. It's not impervious to dirt, but the bearings will suffer long before the sprags do.

Not sure I can ever remember seeing dirt inside the hub shell when replacing bearings.

Cheers for all the replies again.

Onyx is out if they’re really quiet. I didn’t used to like loud hubs but I’ve changed my mind on that now.

The 370’s I’ve got currently are quite clicky and I like that. Then I got Hunts on the road bike and Hopes on my full suss bike and I like them even more for the noise.

The hydras on my mates bike make the Hopes sound a bit agricultural - I haven’t ridden that bike though to see if it would get too wearing or not. I’m not sure I’m highly sensitive to pickup as the 370’s are pretty slow and feel ok - but they do feel less instant than the Hopes or the Hunts (but then the Hunts are on a road bike with no slack anywhere).

I don’t think I’m after bling colours - the new bike is probably going to be painted a deep blue - something like midnight blue candy metallic with either metal flake or a flip in it to black.

I want it to be reasonably light, decent handling and kind of expensive looking but quite subtle. So probably not any anodised colours as I’m not sure it would look good with the blue. Hunt rims would probably look better than the Dt ones in terms of the plain finish ironically.

Extralite Hubs?

https://www.extralite.com/

Pretty exotic, light as heck...

BTW, are they still making DT Swiss 240 in QR flavour for OLD135 and OLD100 disc?
Seems to be unable to find any other QR than 130/100, road, non-disc...

Cheers!
I.

Noisy hubs are good for riding in BC - lets the bears know you are about!
Wish I could get out there this summer.

If you want boring reliability with a bit of flash, then some of the pre-built DT Swiss wheels are good. For example my E1700 wheels come with 350 hubs, but they're painted white pearlescent which is nice.

Currently showing as not in stock, but you could email & enquire...

Rideworks are 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 made 👌

Personally I wouldn't go near I9 hubs. I've ranted before about them but I've had nowt but trouble with the three sets I've had. My brother has a spare Hydra sat in his shed - it's never been ridden yet playing about with it a few weekends ago, it was getting crazy tight. Just from sitting there.

I like Hope and King - don't mind 240's but as you say they're a bit dull. Today I'm going to build up a Superstar V6 after my Halo Supradrive shit itself for the 4th time in 200km. Will be interesting to see how it lasts.

Shimano and DT 350 / 240s are the only hubs on my MTB shortlists these days. Halo for TW-made hubs as they support them with spares and source from a good supplier.

I've used Hopes exclusively since the late 90s. Never had a single problem with them. Yes they're not "posh" but unlike pretty much all other bike components I've used over the years/decades, I've found them to be faultless and personally I'd prefer to have the dependability of a bike that works over something thats a touch lighter/"posh-er".

Onyx. Who cares if they are quiet? The engagement on them is insane - never ridden an onyx cassette hub but the bmx hubs are just incredible. My son's crupi quad bmx hubs have 150 tooth ratchets (so a 2.4 deg engagement) but even they feel different to the onyx.

Not ridden the hydras but they have crazy quick engagement. I can't believe you wouldn't consider them because Neil has a set!

But in the real world, DT240s are better value than both.

Extra lite hubs look crazy light - 179 for a rear and 88g for a front. I’d even be ok with the cost of the front hub (130 eur) but the rear hub is too expensive at 360 eur!

Ride works - £550 for hubs - too punchy that.

At the moment the Erase components hubs are top of the list - followed by Hope / DT240 (depending on costs at the time I decide to purchase).

I don’t think it’s colour so much driving the bling for me - but the noise / shape / weight of the hubs.

The rims I’m after are 440g each, say 180g per wheel for spokes (28 x DT competition per wheel - the e1900’s on the bike now are 28 spoke) - with Hope hubs (492g / pair) that’s a circa 1750g wheelset (alloy squorx nips).

With the Erase but the same other stuff it’s a 1650g sort of weight.

The Extralite with the same build kit is circa 1500g. Waaaay too expensive though.

All the above would be run with a 2.3 aggressor or Dhr2 at the back in exo sidewalls. At the moment I’m running a 2.5dhfwt at the front but wondering about the 2.3dhf to save a bit of weight and rolling resistance so the bike feels quicker / sharper.

My full suss does the more gnar stuff and is built appropriately for it.

@Ian PV - Neil having a set is a factor - he’s loves his and I don’t want to rip him off.....plus a few people above seem to have had issues with the Hydras - plus £££

I don’t want silent hubs so the Onyx is out - I’ve grown to really like my loud freewheel. Saves having a bell 🛎

decent handling

pleasesqueezeme?

XT weigh a ton

Yea, I suppose the same weight as a DT350 and a mere 10g lighter than a Pro4 isn't superlight these days......

Only £80 for a set though, so you could always buy a Chris King BB with the change.

XT are still cup and cone though aren’t they? They must have made them a lot lighter as the one I built into a 9mm qr wheel could have been used as a door prop with how much it weighed. The 12x148 Pro4 I used for another wheelset felt a lot lighter.

Mark at Spokesman wheels is offering builds with the Erase hubs and obviously thinks they're decent so that's a good recommendation.

I think funds allowing I’m going to try those Erase hubs. That’s either assuming I get a new boost fork, or at a later date they could supply boost adapters for the non-boost version of the hub. Rear is boost on both my frames anyway so that’s easy.

XT are still cup and cone though aren’t they?

Yep, although the sealing is now much better than the original QR hubs, which would usually outlast a wheel anyway. And the new adjustment mechanism takes a lot less skill to get right.

They must have made them a lot lighter as the one I built into a 9mm qr wheel could have been used as a door prop

I think they finally shed the weight when they dropped the old bolt on freehubs and started developing the scylence ones which should have been an improvement on the DT design as the DT relies on the spring pressure whereas the Shimano design has angled splines on the drive ring so the harder you pedal the harder it pushes the ratchets together.

Although they seemed to drop the scylence bit, apparently you can bring it back by removing the washer that prevents it from retracting the ratchet ring completely but presumably shimano had their reasons.

This sounds tacky but I wonder what a hub that was finished in an oil slick finish would be like?

Wonder no more!

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/ns-bikes-rotary-front-32h-disc-mtb-hub

If sir would like his oil slick to extend onto the spokes: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/ns-bikes-enigma-rock-mtb-wheelset-1

Another brand:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/octane-one-orbital-pro-ss-rear-mtb-hub-2020/rp-prod131181

Another brand:

Not really, or maybe not exactly...
Octane One is budget sub-brand of NS Bikes...

Cheers!
I.

Haha thanks - I did find those. Think they’re quite low rent hubs though - the first is only available in oil slick in a 20x110 size and the other in 10x35.

The oil slick spikes are gross though!

I don’t actually mind the look of the NS one but I’d probably regret buying them after a short period of time....

Yeah XT still cup and cone. That's what I like about them. So so easy to service. After you do it a few times it becomes ridiculously easy. I try and get components that are easy to get spares for cheaply to save trips to the bike shop. Good feeling of satisfaction as well deep servicing your own stuff.

@frankconway Aren’t Royce going to be QR only?

If the hope pro 4's are anything like the pro 3's they'll be horse scaringly loud (from experience.)

Yeah XT still cup and cone. That’s what I like about them. So so easy to service. After you do it a few times it becomes ridiculously easy

But why do maintenance, when you don't need to? Ah yes, some people [i]enjoy[/i] it... I ain't one of them!
My XT hubs just felt heavy! I didn't weigh em, but the bike felt better with AmClas and that's what counts. Also XT are butt ugly. Maybe that's more the point 😀

Yeah, I don’t mind maintenance but none of the hubs I’ve used so far have needed any. Happy to knock out old bearings and press in new ones on the odd occasion needed. I don’t want to make additional maintenance tasks by buying shimano cup and cone.

Hope Pro4 are noisy - I already have a set - but I’m good with that.

I must admit I am confused. Your original post requested posh (ish) hubs. To use a groupset parallel:

Budget - Deore
Mid Range - SLX
Posh (ish) - XT
Proper Posh - XTR

Kings, I9s etc sit firmly in the Proper Posh segment.

DT240 might be dull, but they are:

1) Proven (yawn)
2) Light (zzzz)
3) Smooth (dulllllll)
4) Easy to service and amend for freehub/axle changes (dozing off now)
5) Reasonable value (trouble staying awake)

They are dull in the same way that XT is dull, but I thought that's what you were after. If the title of the thread was 'are bling posh hubs worth more than dull posh (ish) hubs', that would be different (but honestly the answer is still no, and I have a garage of bikes with Kings, I9s, DT and prebuilt Mavic hubs).

Ultimately the posher hubs have more temperamental needs and might be more polished, but you really do have to go a long way to beat a j-bend DT240.

On the subject of straight pull, I can see the point on the road where a bladed spoke has some aero benefit, but not so much off road. It is really difficult to stop spoke wind up using a straight pull round spoke, so bladed is really the only choice.

When I moved my road bikes to SRAM AXS (XDR driver), the freehub and axle alone to change my Kings was almost £400. That's just flippin' mental!

Sometimes, dull is good, particularly when it comes to a part of the bike where performance and reliability trumps bling every day of the week. Save money on the hubs and go for the best rim (rotating weight) and spokes (strength and response) that you can. You will notice that more than a few hundred pounds more on hubs. Or spend the extra on upgrading the fork to a Boost Pike Ultimate as you mentioned. The Boost wheel will be stronger due to the bracing angle, and again with DT you can easily and cheaply fit Torque Caps to improve the interface and stiffness. Not all hubs even make Torque Caps (including King until recently and even now they are difficult and expensive to source). Plus having the latest standard will be better for future proofing the bike.

If money is no object, don't get wrong it's nice to have nice kit, and Kings are nice from a pride of ownership perspective, but from a pure performance perspective, the difference isn't just small, it simply isn't there.

White Industries have some nice kit.

If you want something noisy, Newmen hubs are like a slightly refined & louder DT 240.
Slightly refined in that they use the single spring that the newer top end DTs do rather than the usual 2 spring.
Significantly louder though having gone from 1501s to Evolution As. Probably not as loud as Hopes but not far off.

The silent Onyx are really cool but the bearings have not lasted well on the one pair I've experience with.

future proofing is also a key consideration for me. if i'm going to spend descent enough money on a wheel set (ie £500+), i want to know that i'll be able to transfer it between new frames and forks, so something like hopes convertibility for boost / non boost, various axle diameters and different drive train freehubs are a big consideration. i know others do this, but you can pretty much normally guarantee you can get you PRO 4's to work with want ever new configuration or standard. that alomg reasonable price, fit an forget reliability and a choice of colours (if that's your thing) makes it difficult to look eslewhere, all be it the dull choice

Fair comments.

Firstly - this is kind of evolving as I look at the different options.

Secondly I’ve decided I want this bike to be nice and spritely when you pedal and feel nice and reactive. So the less weight within reason the better.

I’m speccing the frame without an insane reach or seat angle / not running a really short stem and have picked a middling kid of headangle. It’s going to have really nice paint and I just want some nice components highlights.

The Erase hubs seem a good compromise - they’re actually a little cheaper than the 240’s but seem to be easier to service from what I’ve read. The (titanium) freewheel comes off easily and it looks to have quite standard bearings and doesn’t need proprietary tools to do any servicing.

The White industries look to be a touch heavier so I’m going to rule those out.

If I wanted something different, I'd be buying a set of Ride Works Component hubs, specifically the Bean Can hubs they've been showing off recently. Facebook posts here.

No idea if they are any good mind.

Kamakazie
Subscriber
If you want something noisy, Newmen hubs are like a slightly refined & louder DT 240.
Slightly refined in that they use the single spring that the newer top end DTs do rather than the usual 2 spring.

Newmen have moved to pawls for their new (Fade) hubs though - some cheap ones about with the older design as a result.

Newmen have moved to pawls for their new (Fade) hubs though – some cheap ones about with the older design as a result.

Ah yeah I'd forgotten about that. Interesting decision. I read the explanation but it kinda sounded like they've had issues with reliability of their implementation which is a bit worrying as an owner.... maybe don't go for the ratchet Newmens!

Ride works are £550 for a pair of hubs - that’s not far off the price of either a Pike Ultimate or the frame I’m buying.....so that’s a no!

Acros hubs make hope pro4 sound quiet they have 3 volume settings too.
£150 euro for rear from bike 24 for old shimano fitting
Other hub I am waiting to come in stock to try is new Spank Hex hub

So I’ve just taken a deposit for my old wheels / fork / frame so it’s new wheel build time. Just ordered DT XM421 rims - going for 32 spoke rear and 28 spike front (the 28 spoke rims are £20 less than the 32 spoke ones but think it’s more sensible to spec the 32 on the rear of a hardtail with a light ish rim).

Once I’ve had full payment for the bits I’m selling I think I’m ordering the Erase hubs. For me they’re something a bit different, sound easy to work on, have a high ish POE count and I think they’ll be fairly noisy. Also should allow me to get a circa 1650g ish wheelset I think which sounds sensibly light for an mtb that isn’t a full gnar machine.

I’ve considered lighter than normal spokes but actually just going to stick to black double butted spokes - either DT Competition or ACI probably.