davesmate
Perhaps what you suggest would be better advice. I agree with what you say regarding the message it sends out.
Presumably part of the reason that the advice is usually to acquiesce comes from a fear of being held liable or accused of being responsible if something does go wrong?
wonder what you'll do when you leave work and realise your house has been broken into and several expensive items have been stolen.Report it to the police just so's you can get a crime reference number which you'll need to claim on your insurance.
I doubt most folk would really expect much else tbh. Most people I know who've bin burgled, the police jolly well have not even sent a SOCCO down to take fingerprints, and basically said 'there's not much we can do, other than give you a crime reference number for your insurance claim'. Which is all they've done when I've had a bike nicked.
I'm not expecting them to perform miracles, and I appreciate how difficult their jobs are much of the time, but public confidence in the police is at a real low, and it ain't helped by them killing innocent people, being involved in 'phone hacking scandals, bashing people exercising their democratic right to protest (not to mention using agents provocateurs to deliberately stir up trouble), and using false names when giving evidence under oath in court....
And lots of other bad things.
As for 'respect'; it's earned. Putting on a uniform and a badge does not in any way automatically qualify you for such. You need to do something to gain it first.
Crumbs i find myself agreeing with something Padded Bra has typed, that's at bit worrying sure he'll type something i don't agree with soonish 😕
sure he'll type something i don't agree with soonish
😀
[i]Wellhung is not actually well hung.[/i]
Is that ok?
wonder what you'll do when you leave work and realise your house has been broken into and several expensive items have been stolen.Report it to the police just so's you can get a crime reference number which you'll need to claim on your insurance.
I doubt most folk would really expect much else tbh. Most people I know who've bin burgled, the police jolly well have not even sent a SOCCO down to take fingerprints, and basically said 'there's not much we can do, other than give you a crime reference number for your insurance claim'. Which is all they've done when I've had a bike nicked.
I'm not expecting them to perform miracles, and I appreciate how difficult their jobs are much of the time, but public confidence in the police is at a real low, and it ain't helped by them killing innocent people, being involved in 'phone hacking scandals, bashing people exercising their democratic right to protest (not to mention using agents provocateurs to deliberately stir up trouble), and using false names when giving evidence under oath in court....
And lots of other bad things.
As for 'respect'; it's earned. Putting on a uniform and a badge does not in any way automatically qualify you for such. You need to do something to gain it first.
Crumbs i find myself agreeing with something Padded Bra has typed, that's at bit worrying sure he'll type something i don't agree with soonish 😕
Ive already said I dont care how you regard me elfnsafety.
funny double post thingy
easygirl - MemberI've stopped trying to justify myself as a bobby on here
You don't have to - those of us tha understand appreciate you,those that don't never will.
Elf - I know yo have had issues with police in teh past but can you imagine just how much worse life would be without them?
Just to get this straight as well I dont hate the police. I find their conduct and their unaccountability a bit tasteless though.
I think there are two levels of policing here that usually get mixed up.
One is the daily policing stuff. My experience is mixed. On the one hand we recently had a break in at work, police have been excellent. Came immediately got fingerprints from the scene, executed a search warrant and took 3 people into custody whilst recovering around 30 grands worth of our kit. Top work. On the other hand it's taken them over an hour to attend site whilst my security team are restraining people with weapons involved.
The other bit is the dirty stuff. The agressive policing of demos and the placement of agitators, kettling etc, the behaviour of FITs and the TSG, the bullshit that comes from the IPCC, the attitude of the Met in the Tomlinson enquiry and so on....
I find it difficult to separate the two elements to be honest. I know and accept that most coppers are diligent, hard working people who joined to serve the public. Unfortunately the politisation of the police over the last 20 or so years has alienated a lot of the public.
I know yo have had issues with police in teh past but can you imagine just how much worse life would be without them?
So where have I ever said the police should be disbanded or we'd be better off without them?
Eh?
I respect the police same as I respect anyone; you act according to the job you're paid to do, and do it to the best of your ability and according to the Law, and you'll gain my respect. You don't get it by default, you have to earn it. Same as I can't and shoon't demand respect from others, I need to earn it.
And the police as a whole don't do [i]enough[/i] to earn my, and many many others, respect.
So, complacency and let things get worse, or show dissatisfaction in the hope it might give someone a kick up the arse? Challenge the police wherever possible; condemn them when they are wrong, and point out where they could be better. And praise them when they go above and beyond, which they often do. I don't see the police as this wonderful institution automatically deserving our awe and unconditional respect and love, I see it as a deeply flawed and sometimes highly inefficient entity which needs constantly public scrutiny and criticism to keep it from becoming complacent and dysfunctional.
The police seem to think my approach is the right one actually, hence the 'consultation' meetings etc they have with local communities and that. The police have improved somewhat in my local area over the years, but there's still a long way to go.
It's our duty as citizens to constantly scrutinise and question those institutions which are there for our benefit.
Ta elf - the point I was trying to make is you appear to often criticise police but forget to
And praise them when they go above and beyond, which they often do
No Jeremey, I do that when I feel they've done well. Credit where it's due.
The daily policing the streets keeping them safe an ting; that's what they're paid for. I don't walk in a shop and praise all the staff just cos the shop looks tidy.
Some folk on here choose to idealise the police. I don't. Don't see why I should be labelled a 'police hater' just for speaking me mind though.
Elf - bcause despite seeing both sides you only shout about one. Seriously - on here you come over as very anti police although I realise you are not.
I think it would be a real eye opener formany folk to see what the police have to do forreal - it certainly oped my eyes and I did gain some understanding of themt hru doing so
sure he'll type something i don't agree with soonishWellhung is not actually well hung.
Is that ok?
Thankyou balance has been restored 😀
I have been a Police officer on the streets for 15yrs not in an office. The Police are a cross section of people just like any other profession. Therefore always gonna be some tossers in there somewhere. However in the main, most out there on the streets will chase thieves, fight and put themselves at risk for you.
By the way caught two burglars last night, got out of bed with aches, cuts all over my legs, trying to pull thorns out of my hands and got my boots by the radiator as the second one jumped in a small river. We do catch em sometimes.
The Police are a cross section of people just like any other profession.
So why do the idle ones prosper while the keen ones get the love of the job bashed out of them?
That's why I left (some 20 years ago now). I worked out I'd either turn into one of the lazy do-the-bare-minimum types, or spend the rest of my career working against them.
No ta.
And from way up there
you automatically fail the attitude test
Shameful. Really shameful.
If you are judging folk because they want you to be accountable for your actions, it's time you handed back your boots, too.
Think the idle ones prosper because the people at the top with the power to sack them etc are too afraid of being called a bully etc and few seem to have the bottle to actually get rid of people. I have seen people that would have been sacked in other industries get away with ridiculous incompetence. Doesn't mean we are all like that.
I am just as keen as the day I started,just older and creakier, good job I got my bike to keep things moving.
In answer to the first question, when asked I always give my number, its displayed openly anyway but won't give my name as with some people they are sarcastic enough without giving them ammo and they can trace me by the number.
davesmate - MemberI guess the point I'm trying to make is this. Police advice is to not put up a fight and give the scrotes what they want.
Aye- because that's the route that's least likely to see you get stabbed. It's not just good advice, it's the only advice they can reasonably give.
Fork that. At least have some baws. No one can take that off ya. Cue the Id rather not comments which are fair enough but not for me.
Report it to the police just so's you can get a crime reference number which you'll need to claim on your insurance.I doubt most folk would really expect much else tbh. Most people I know who've bin burgled, the police jolly well have not even sent a SOCCO down to take fingerprints, and basically said 'there's not much we can do, other than give you a crime reference number for your insurance claim'. Which is all they've done when I've had a bike nicked.
I'm not expecting them to perform miracles, and I appreciate how difficult their jobs are much of the time, but public confidence in the police is at a real low, and it ain't helped by them killing innocent people, being involved in 'phone hacking scandals, bashing people exercising their democratic right to protest (not to mention using agents provocateurs to deliberately stir up trouble), and using false names when giving evidence under oath in court....
And lots of other bad things.
As for 'respect'; it's earned. Putting on a uniform and a badge does not in any way automatically qualify you for such. You need to do something to gain it first.
What he said.
bigthunder - MemberFork that. At least have some baws. No one can take that off ya. Cue the Id rather not comments which are fair enough but not for me.
And that's fine, if you want to go for it then do- but you can't expect the police to say to everyone "Go on, grow a pair, it'll probably be fine".
I dont.
Well, that's kind of the point I'm making 😆
So much negativity towards the police on here! I do a job that I am proud to do, I work hard and try to catch and prosecute the scum of this country that make all of our lives a misery at times. If that makes me or the people that I work for so bad then I fear that this country really is in trouble. If the police are so incapable then why are the prisons full and why do people routinely phone us at the drop of a hat?
Trevor.
But you can reasonably expect a grown adult to make a decision base on a quick risk assesment. Personally, 2 muggers and one knife, I'll take my chances. 3 muggers and 3 knives I'll start thinking differently.
The problem is that the scrotes play on the fear and the fact that most folk won't stand up for themselves or others. That aint right.
Can I just add for all the plod on here,I'm not having a dig, most of you do a stirling job.
davesmate - MemberBut you can reasonably expect a grown adult to make a decision base on a quick risk assesment.
Exactly- which is why it's just advice- you can make your own decision to ignore it but if you're in any doubt, probably best not. (how much would they have to pay me to get in a boxing ring with a nutter with a knife? More than I carry in my pockets, that's a fact)
Really not sure what the problem is tbh... The deterrant to mugging someone at knifepoint isn't that they might lamp you, it's that you might get caught and end up belonging to the man with the most cigarettes.
The problem, as I said above, is the scrotes know most people are more likely to take police advice and do nothing. It's easy money all you have to do is flash a blade. Capture is no deterrant, like it or not most get away with it
why are the prisons full
Maybe it's cos the police aren't doing a good enough job of [b]preventing crime[/b]. 😉
Double post
davesmate - MemberThe problem, as I said above, is the scrotes know most people are more likely to take police advice and do nothing.
Whereas with different advice, more people would try and do something and get stabbed. Result.
or less people would think mugging you was easy money
Northwind - if police advice was to leave your bike outside your front door to avoid damage to your shed/garage/house/self when they nick it would you do it?
davesmate - MemberNorthwind - if police advice was to leave your bike outside your front door to avoid damage to your shed/garage/house/self when they nick it would you do it?
That's a fascinating bit of arguing 😆
Thorpie/Trevor, keep up the good work mate, its much appreciated by the vast majority of law abiding people and take no notice of the usual cop haterz/attention seekers on here.
A relative recently got burgled....Police were excellent in catching those responsible and was nice to see them put away when it came to court. I know personally they were happy with how things were conducted re advice after the crime etc and the outcome.
Stay safe out there fella.
After reading yet another Police bashing thread I'm done with STW. Breaking fingers with pliers! Really? Grow up... Account closed.
[b]Fisha:[/b]
Generally, if asked my number by a person I was speaking to, I would give it out to the person - reality is that its quite often an empty threat from a smart arse ... hence the fail of the attitude test so to speak.[b]Van Cough Cough:[/b]
I think you quite possibly fail the attitude test if you think someone is a smart arse for asking for your number.
Really? I think you've failed to appreciate the point I was making.
More often than not ( note, [u]not all[/u] ) asking for my 'number' is from someone who turns out to be trying it on, being an unwarranted smart arse when its not necessary on their part.
Account closed.
Oh whell.
take no notice of the usual cop haterz/attention seekers on here.
Nah, take no notice of those who want to see a better, more accountable police force, eh? 🙄
Let's all just wear rose-tinted specs, eh?
Pft...
Rose tinted specs donned here 8)
Remember when talking to coppers you are usually talking yourself into trouble. If they ask you a question, ask if they are holding you for any reason. If they reply no, walk away. [b]You are not obliged to talk to a policeman.[/b] (unless you've done something wrong of course) Usually things you say/do end up getting you arrested, so unless they actually saw you do something, they can't do anything.
And yes, always take their number and make notes if possible. Also if you have your GoPro, record the conversation too. Pisses them right off.
That said, some coppers are nice blokes.
And your smart arsed reply to my comment is "oh whell"
Elfin, be a good little boy and take some English lessons.
I think I'll be staying here after all..
You know, whilst aspects of what you say is correct, it is somewhat disappointing to see the attitude that unless you're being held for a reason, then Police simply aren't to be spoken to and walked away from.
Do you really think that every officer wants to speak to people so that they can dobb themselves in?
Has it ever occurred to you that a question of "alright chaps, what you upto? " is just that? an ice breaker to talk to people ? ( I know, a shocker eh! ) Yes, you get folk that dont want talk but you also get plenty people who do.
Taking the Police officer bit out of the equation, and you walked up to me to ask a simple question, or to say hello, and I looked at you and commented " dont need to talk you " turned on my heels and walked off ... could you really say that you would not come to a conclusion about me? You would have to some extent ( yes, it may be little, but you'd likely think it ) a thought in your mind of " eh? why be like that? "
As easygirl says, it sometimes seems futile and pointless trying to defend the Police. I do agree, there are bad apples on every tree but its sad that the tarring brush seems bigger than average when it comes to the Police.
I think I'll be staying here after all..
Excellent! 😀
Grab a drink; there's some snacks on the table over there...
As easygirl says, it sometimes seems futile and pointless trying to defend the Police. I do agree, there are bad apples on every tree but its sad that the tarring brush seems bigger than average when it comes to the Police.
Probably because we expect a higher standard or something from people we pay to uphold the law.
AS you will see from the exchange between elf and I on the previous page what tends to happen (in a typicaly british way) we moan and tut but never compliment unless twisted into it.
You then get the ones who have no idea what you actually do and the fantasists who fantasise about chopping fingers off or whatever other piffle they said
I worked alongside the police for a while in Edinburgh and was surprised by what I saw - just the mundanity of it - Arrest a stroppy drunk, then another , then a whining junkie on a warrant, then some minor crim doing something stupid. around 60 over a weekend would be a usual count. Lots of failling of the attitude test.
I must have seen a thousand arrests and only a couple of actual significant crimes - all the rest were stupid mundane idiots.
The funniest tho was watching the drunks kick off in the custody suite. waht they thought they would gain by going radge I don't know. unsuprisingly they always lost.
The cops - remained professional in all instances that I saw
We all like to get pissed now and then adn can get a bit rowdy - but when a cop says " you are drunk and being stupid - go home" the correct answer is Yessir! and go
Oh God, another smart arsed comment from Elfin.
I was going to come back at you with some cutting remarks, then my Wife reminded me that it's 'just a silly man on a forum'. I'm inclined to agree with her on this occasion.
Bye bye silly man.
