Officers stopped 106 motorists for entering Advanced Stop Lines (ASL) – red boxes designed to allow cyclists a head start at traffic lights – during an operation along North Bridge.A total of 26 cyclists were stopped for jumping red lights and six more for cycling on pavements as part of the “Drive Safe, Cycle Safe” initiative.
Good stuff - there is a publicity campaign on as well about ASLs - posters on buses - a good campaign cos its fair and targeted equally.
Edinburgh has a bad record for cycling casualties - worse than other cities despite allowing for a lot of cyclists. Analysis showed junctions were a main hotspot obviously and this is a targeted campaign
Interesting, high percentage of taxis caught in the ASL.
And some news for me - I thought taxi drivers were allowed to use bus lanes - I have never seen one not use a bus lane !!
Not wanting to start an anti taxi rant, but I think that was what ahppened to the cyclist killed near the zoo, a taxi hoofing along undertaking folk in the bus lane.
Great news, we have them in england , for taxis to stop in, the ones driven by men with no fingers,who cant reach the indicators when turning left.
Wonder if they booked any of their own? Pretty much everytime I've seen a police car in Edinburgh at the head of a traffic light queue they've stopped in the ASL box.
Taxis as opposed to private hire can use the bus lane if it has been made law by a TRO.
Same with cyclists, some bus lanes dontr allow cyclists , 3 in Chester for a start.
Black cabs canuse the bus lanes, private hire cannot is my understanding.
a bus lane that does not allow cyclists? 😯 🙄
There is a person who keeps parking in the ASL lane near me, in this pic he parks where the grit bin is meaning any other vehicle at the junction blocks access to the ASL and the lane.
Might have to put a Passive Agressive PostIt on his windaes.
http://g.co/maps/awh2c
Might have to put a Passive Agressive PostIt on his windaes.
That sounds appropriately Colinton. 😉 Or perhaps you could just tut as you walk past him?
The bus lanes in Edinburgh generally have signs with bus, cycle and taxi icons on them but maybe there's a few that are more restrictive.
Thats a really stupid place to park - report to teh police / council whichever enforces parking round there - they will add it to theiur routes to check.
take photos as well with the time on them and send it to the police maybe?
The shore near me has been made into one way only for cars and is being roundly ignored - gonna be fun when they enforce this and reopen the rods leading to it properly
Black cabs canuse the bus lanes, private hire cannot is my understanding.
only if the traffic regulation order allows them.
a bus lane that does not allow cyclists?
Wrexham road , Chester
Sealand road,Chester,
Hough Green, Chester,
Bikes banned we have to use the pavement, have a look at street view for Sealand road,its a laugh.
liverpool, yesterday, black insigni-ficant car, pulls up alongside me in ASL, 2 kids in back no seat belts, woman driving, and texting, shouted at her and she just ignored me and turned left without and signals. muppet.
That is utterly ridiculous Project.
http://g.co/maps/ezpfx
I would be using the bus lane. It can do no harm - you could take a quick hop onto the kerb if you were holding up a bus unlikely thos that is
I would be using the bus lane. It can do no harm - you could take a quick hop onto the kerb if you were holding up a bus unlikely thos that is
I'd be using the road, generally far safer than riding in bus lanes or on cycle paths.
A total of 26 cyclists were stopped for jumping red lights
I find this hard to believe. A cyclist getting caught by a policeman after jumping a red light? How useless a cyclist must one be to get caught by a [s]policeman[/s] Babylonian? Has anyone ever heard of a [i]proper[/i] cyclist getting caught doing that?
Has anyone ever heard of a proper cyclist getting caught doing that?
Only ****wits jump red lights, not proper cyclists,.
I have seen the cops doing checks / clampdowns befoer - they will have two or moree on foot each side of the junction diagonally opposite so when see a cyclist they want to stop they walk out into the road and get in front of them. Narrow busy city centre junctions Only a few steps needed
I find it interesting that half the drivers stopped were professionals.
TandemJeremy - Member
That is utterly ridiculous Project.
http://g.co/maps/ezpfx
Just along from TJs link.... http://g.co/maps/c3r8x
teh irony...
Indeed Druidh - i saw that. Parked in the cycle lane rather than the roadside parking.
Lots of cars seem to park on the cycleway as opposed to on their driveways with nice dropped kerbs, and the cyclepath is so dangerous, due to car doors being opened and all the droped kerbs.
When i go down there again i will video it.
thegreatape - Member[b]A total of 26 cyclists were stopped for jumping red lights[/b]
I find this hard to believe. A cyclist getting caught by a policeman after jumping a red light? How useless a cyclist must one be to get caught by a [s]policeman[/s] Babylonian? Has anyone ever heard of a proper cyclist getting caught doing that?
thegreatape, have you let fred have a play on your computer? 😀
Good. And no surprise whatsoever that taxis are the worst offenders.
Good. My only desire is that they'd do this in London as well.
The little scamp must have snuck in while I was having my nap!
Brilliant article - balanced reporting of both drivers and cyclists. I also appreciated their dismissal of the complaints around the bus lane cameras forcing people to obey traffic rules...
One point though - 75% of cyclists caught may have been male, but what proportion of cyclists are male because it's a meaningless statistic otherwise?
Never mind that AlasdairMc ... why no link on here to last weeks adventure?
Yes - most unusual for the Hootsmon
I think they should change the law so that cyclists and other road users as well as pedestrians can photo / film drivers breaking the law, then fine the driver's £50 and give £20 of the dosh to the filmer's
That would be a good way to quickly improve the utter madness that is British driving!
I could get rich leaning out of my window with a camera then. Several offences each cycle of the lights ant the junction by my building
Kaesae's suggestion would make head cams pay for themselves!
Does anyone else feel we're approaching a critical mass of cyclists in Edinburgh? I've seen the number of cyclists in my building at work go from five in 2006 to around thirty now.
Bikes banned we have to use the pavement, have a look at street view for Sealand road,its a laugh.
Wouldn't use sealand road if you paid me. Not a nice place, at least the riverside path got me to Shotton so i had no need.
Does anyone else feel we're approaching a critical mass of cyclists in Edinburgh? I've seen the number of cyclists in my building at work go from five in 2006 to around thirty now.
Definitely. Enough cyclists are around to make it an every day occurrence. There has been a change of attitude in the time I have been here and some genuine co operation is happening - especially with the LRT buses.
I do wish instead of meaningless bits of red paint where there is no need the council would put some effort into engineering junctions to make it safer for cycling. Some bloody awful attempts around.
[url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/driver-caught-on-bus-lanes-30-times-in-two-weeks-1-2286375 ]
[/url]A DRIVER has been hit with £1800 worth of fines after being snapped by new bus lane cameras 30 times in just two weeks.The motorist – who works as a private hire driver – topped a league table of 82 serial offenders who were caught in the Capital’s Greenways at least five times in the first 14 days of the controversial devices going live.
Chuckles out loud! Is that wrong? I dont care.
The Calder Road one though is a bit of a dilema tbh - it's just before a 3 lane roundabout. I can see the temptation. I can also see the camera!
Thing is though I was in a private hire at on Tuesday and he was all talk about it vs black cabs (I'm sure we were unwittingly involved in some sort of race) so its obvious that they know its there and are still flouting the rules.
Have to say I think some lanes run too close to LH turns etc.
This stuff has to be helpful rather than punitive.
Motorcycles ok in bus lanes Tj ?
rickmeister - MemberMotorcycles ok in bus lanes Tj ?
Only in Bristol and maybe some other enlightened cities IIRC
You would be kerazee to ride a motorbike down a bus lane in Edinburgh. Some just see the recent obedience as people clearing the lanes so they can go faster.
Slight thread hi-jack/resurrection! It seems first tickets have been issued for cars using the bus lanes today. Or not just using them - being in them. A friend of mine (genuine - not a euphemism for me!) has received 4 tickets for being in a bus lane just before a left turn to her street - no other traffic in the lane so no hold up for anyone. The bus lane doesn't break as it goes past the street entrance, so you have to enter it or at least cross it to access the street. Is there a minimum distance before a LH turn that you can enter a bus lane for - or do you leave it to the last minute and turn across it at right angles?
The cameras are on big poles. Pulling in anywhere beyond the camera would avoid getting a ticket and if you can't see them then you deserve a ticket for lack of observation!
Myopic - probably they will get away if they appeal on that one but should be a turn across the bus lane in that situation IIRC
Thanks, Druidh. They're not my tickets! But the point is you have to enter the bus lane to turn left and there is a camera just before the junction. A left turn is perfecxtly legal, so the question is how close do you have to be to a junction to safely enter a buslane to turn out of it again?
Sorry myopic, I should have written "if [i]one[/i] can't see them then [i]one[/i] deserves a ticket".
The left turn is perfectly legal, so one should wait until they are at the junction and do a left turn across the bus lane. One shouldn't be driving "along" the bus lane at all.
Cheers TJ - its not listed as one of the grounds for appeal and def no break in lane. I was keen to receommend appeal, but it has the disincentive of automatically forfeiting the right to the 50% reduction in penalty if paid promptly and without arguing.
I guess they will allow a lot of appeals but its only a guess
Cheers druidh 🙂
Aye, she is probably exaggerating, or loads of people would be contesting on those grounds.
I suspect I have some hate mail on the way, I have always flouted the "buses and cycles" only street that joins Nicholson Sq to the Bristo place after parking at the Mosque, without even thinking about it. (it's the dumbest bus only street in history, I checked the bus timetable at the stop and there is ONE BUS AN HOUR, and the alternative is a series of tricky right handers across 2 lanes ot traffic)
Mind if the cameras are as unsubtle as you say they are Al I am sure I would have spotted it !
Copper at southwark bridge a while ago had a go at a cyclist who was in front of the ASL, but had no interest in having a similar go at the lorry that was blocking all but the front 3ft of the ASL, even though we were all shouting at him.
I have yet to be convinced that that the traffic police don't have an upper limit on the IQ level they recruit...
@Myopic, go to the local press and ask them if one of their reporters and a cameraman wishes to cover the story and attend a certain time where you are willing to drive your car past several times to prove it's flawed. When they expose it, it should give greater weight for appeal since it will make the situation public and more drivers may come forward, including those who are vulnerable and have just been paying up immediately to avoid trouble.
That could work ! The Eidnburgh Evening News loathe and despise the Edinburgh City Council, they may well be up for it.
Great idea - though maybe better if I get one of them to drive their car up and down it a few times, just in case 😀
So far the local papers have not been very sympathetic to the people caught. Been one heck of a lot tho
I'd agree that quite a few bus lanes run up far too close to left turns. Turning left into minor roads can get quite dangerous as well as sometimes the speed differential between traffic in the bus-lane and semi-stationary traffic in the other lane can be a lot.
police were setting up on glasgow road with cameras for the old bus lane abusers today.
Nice to see some ction by the police and balanced reporting on [i]all[/i] traffic.
bus lanes around here seem to have breaks for left turn or left exit slips, roundly ignored by drivers as a rule, just pull into bus lane as soon as they fancy, well before the broken line.
Plenty of motorbikes in bus lanes in Manchester, not sure if it's legit or not.
Any decent driver would find turning left across a lane a weird thing to do - most people are trained, or experienced, in filtering before making a turn. Certainly turning across a lane must be more dangerous for cyclists than having someone filter [i]then[/i] turn.
I don't think people should be penalised for doing this, as it's probably safer and keeps traffic moving better (i.e. you're not stopped in the outside lane, waiting for the stream of buses to go past on the inside before making your turn). However...I guess if the cameras only take snapshots of each vehicle then there's no way of telling for how long that car/arse****taxi has been driving down the lane for. Tricky!
I think your friend should challenge it though - maybe needs testing in court or an almighty media backlash to clarify the rules.
Looks like some other people agree with me 🙂
Whinge whinge winge from the paper
How so?
I find this hard to believe. A cyclist getting caught by a policeman after jumping a red light? How useless a cyclist must one be to get caught by a [s]policeman[/s] Babylonian?
Heh, the other day I saw a policeman on a bike waiting at lights, and then pedalling off after people on bikes who went through on red.
It was really very tempting to jump the light and see if he could catch me 🙂
TandemJeremy - Member
Whinge whinge winge from the paper
So by reporting the resulting hassle this is causing to some of the residents of Edinburgh, they are whinging!!!!! Or providing a voice for the people.
The tone Kit. there is a point to it yes but
it was unsafe especially with a child in the back.
AA have warned drivers to stick “blindly to the rules”
etc etc
Fairy Nuff.
That junction could do with 10 ft taken off the bus lane before the junction for sure.
BBC reporting issues with the cameras as well now:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-18104573
"Edinburgh bus lane cameras to be reviewed
Only buses and black cabs are allowed to use the greenway Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Taxi clocks £1,800 Greenway fines
Councils set for bus lane powers
Edinburgh Council is to carry out an "urgent review" of a controversial camera system set up to monitor illegal use of the city's bus lanes.
The move follows complaints that some motorists were being unfairly fined after being caught on camera driving in one of the green lanes."
I'm not sure I see what the problem is with the "hard left turn" into a minor road. If the white line separating the bus lane from the main carriageway was a bit of kerb (as it would be if the bus lane was a Dutch-style cycle lane) the drivers would have no choice. I suspect that the main problem is folk going so fast that a driver executing this left turn will be slowing down fairly rapidly and a following driver might run in to the back of them. The answer for this is surely to reduce speed limits to 20mph.
One other risk might be that vehicles turning left across the bus lane could swipe a passing "undertaking" cyclist"?
I'm not sure I see what the problem is with the "hard left turn" into a minor road.
See above from a few days ago.
Any decent driver would find turning left across a lane a weird thing to do - most people are trained, or experienced, in filtering before making a turn. Certainly turning across a lane must be more dangerous for cyclists than having someone filter then turn.I don't think people should be penalised for doing this, as it's probably safer and keeps traffic moving better (i.e. you're not stopped in the outside lane, waiting for the stream of buses to go past on the inside before making your turn).
Anyway, the Evening News is all a-froth on the front page today:
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/city-orders-buslane-fines-probe-1-2300118
FFS. Though there do seem to be a couple of genuine issues with the bus lane cameras, most of the stories seem to be people whining that they can't break the law any more without getting caught. 🙄
This one was particularly good: [url= http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/driver-gets-buslane-fine-before-enforcement-period-started-1-2293487 ]Driver gets buslane fine before enforcement period started [/url]
Apparently this photograph:
[img] 
[/img]
was taken precisely [u]three seconds[/u] before the enforcement period started so it shouldn't count. I'm sure she was well clear of the lane 3 seconds later. 🙄
Fitting the cameras with atomic clocks is going to be expensive!
The date/timestamp on the photo showed that it was taken 3 seconds early. There's no need for atomic clocks, the argument is about when the bus period operating hours actually start and why the camera should have gone off before the 7:30 advertised on the bus lane sign.GrahamS - Member
was taken precisely three seconds before the enforcement period started so it shouldn't count. I'm sure she was well clear of the lane 3 seconds later.Fitting the cameras with atomic clocks is going to be expensive!
I think that scanned B&W photos nicely shows how shite the tarmac is around Edinburgh! No wonder they're driving a 4x4 😉
That's not shite tarmac.
It's a secret form of hieroglyph to be used by the lizard aliens when using the roads as landing strips.
I'm sure she was well clear of the lane 3 seconds later.
It looks like there might well be a junction on the left a few yards beyond the car, so the driver may well have been clear of the bus-lane 3-seconds later. Plus it also looks like that camera would pick people up who were crossing the lane to get to the junction.
I'm not sure I see what the problem is with the "hard left turn" into a minor road. If the white line separating the bus lane from the main carriageway was a bit of kerb (as it would be if the bus lane was a Dutch-style cycle lane) the drivers would have no choice. I suspect that the main problem is folk going so fast that a driver executing this left turn will be slowing down fairly rapidly and a following driver might run in to the back of them. The answer for this is surely to reduce speed limits to 20mph.
I was in a car that executed a "hard left turn" into a minor road on Saturday. Unfortunately, as this car slowed down in the RH lane in order to make the turn, the car behind us decided to nip into the bus lane and try to undertake us, rather than slow down itself. Thankfully the driver of the car I was in avoided turning into the car but it was alarming.
So you're pretty much right, other drivers not respecting/understanding the need for hard left turns is probably the main risk/problem...
hels - MemberThat could work ! The Eidnburgh Evening News loathe and despise the Edinburgh City Council, they may well be up for it.
I don't want to be on the same side as the Evening News tbh.
D0NK - MemberPlenty of motorbikes in bus lanes in Manchester, not sure if it's legit or not.
IIRC Manchester was pursuing a PTW-in-buslanes approach but I don't know what the current situation is. The recent London studies indicated that it should be allowed- surprisingly, PTWs in buslanes seems to reduce the incidence of cycle accidents in buslanes. Maybe because people are less likely to step out/pull out blindly if there might be a deranged courier on 250kgs of Bandit 1200 travelling at the speed of light in the buslane.
But, unfortunately Boris didn't like the idea and the CTC opposed it as they consider motorbikes competition. Boris's gone for what seems to be infinite trials, with each trial leading only to another trial.
The date/timestamp on the photo showed that it was taken 3 seconds early. There's no need for atomic clocks, the argument is about when the bus period operating hours actually start and why the camera should have gone off before the 7:30 advertised on the bus lane sign.
It is conceivable that the internal clock on the camera is not kept [i]precisely[/i] synced with the clock that controls whether the system is active or not.
It looks like there might well be a junction on the left a few yards beyond the car, so the driver may well have been clear of the bus-lane 3-seconds later. Plus it also looks like that camera would pick people up who were crossing the lane to get to the junction.
Yeah, if people can't turn into that junction without crossing the bus lane then [u]that[/u] does seem like a bit of a daft situation. But looking at Google Maps for Willowbrae Road I can't see any where that is the case.
So either the lanes have been redone since Google did its last flyover, or it's not actually a side street at all.