[Closed] Plym Valley new trail centre-help needed!!

Any comments in support will help!!

What's the web address?

This should get you there!
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/homepage/environmentandplanning.htm

This link will get you to the full application if it works.
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/planningdoc-2?appno=11-01254-FUL

looks great but i don't know what i need to do to help ?

At the moment there are mainly negative comments to the planning department about the plans so any posiitve comments about trail centres and there positive impact will hopefully help the planners make up their minds.
It may be worth reading some of the negative letters to gauge your response.
There is a form on the website to make feedback.
Any problems let me know.
Thanks for your help.

Is this in cann woods? How will things change?

FYI- here is one of the letters of complaint (Mods- I assume I'm allowed to repost this as it has been made available on the Plymouth City Council website- if not, please delete!) So we can formulate responses;

I wish to object to the proposed off road cycling facility for the
following reasons:-
1)pro)timity of section 5 to residential properties
2}noise and disturbance caused to residents by spectators and riders.
3)disturbance and destruction of wildlife and vegetation m an area of outstanding natural beauty .
4)0iat local streets and residential estates will be used for parking and as short-cut access (via cul-de-sacs at Weir Close and Pattison Drive) to the cyde fadlity. These roads and streets are already conjested and in full use.
5)Emergency vehicles would have difficulty in gaining access to ttie track and the estates in case of accidents.
6)Danger to walkers already using Plym Bridge Woods.
7)The lack of public toilet fadlitles and the amount of litter generated in the area in view ofthe estimated 50% increase in usage (notwithstanding the proposed cafe site).

Plans look good by the way 🙂

I can't find the form on the website though... Do you have a direct link?

The trails are proposed for the other side of the valley so Cann woods will remain untouched, I think.

try this link.
http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/planningonline.htm?ApplicationNumber=11%2F01254%2FFUL&AddressPrefix=&Postcode=&CaseOfficer=&WardMember=&DateReceivedStart=&DateReceivedEnd=&DateDecidedStart=&DateDecidedEnd=&Locality=&AgentName=&ApplicantName=&ShowDecided=&Sort1=FullAddressPrefix&innoLink=http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/planningapplications2/results.asp
It has a comment button on it.
The issues have again been highlighted in the local paper again!!
The positive point raised by the NT is that there will be no parking charges.
We need to get some positive press!!

Thanks,

Supportive comment left- it's great to see the National Trust getting involved in this. Have you contacted the [url= http://yogicycling.com/?p=117 ]Yogis[/url]?

Joe

Some first-class, ill-informed and well-worded Nimbyism in the 'letters' attachments in the applications. 😆

I have accessed my inner 'outraged from woodford' and sent them some impeccably-worded and lenghthy comments both in suppoort of the plans and indeed the 'new direction' of the National Trust, and also attempting to put another perspective on the notion that Mainstone will become full of hollering littering bandits, emergency vehicles and silver audis.

At the end of the day, a national trust 'red trail' is going to be even less 'red' than the one at haldon and a whole lot shorter. Fun and fast if you are fast in the first place, but ultimately safe and not exactly Innerleithen. I can't see anyone travelling any distance to use it, or any massive increase in injuries to cyclists. A great one for beginners to 'proper' singletrack and local yoofs with enthusiasm, a crap bike and no transport, which TBH is just perfect for the local community IMHO. (rad dudes can and will continue to ride in Cann or drive to Gawton/Chipshop/east dartmoor. locals will incorporate it into longer rides but will not really be banging out lap after lap with so much else to ride nearby)

Well done NT 😀

Quite a few locals on xcracer.com too, so I have just posted something about this on there too.

Thanks to everyone that has posted a response.
Please spread the word as quickly as possible.
Thanks Julian for the link on xcracer.

hmm, on the other hand, I'm not sure I like this trend of establishing preset trails; I fear it will lead to everything else being placed off limits. Its a potential issue with Stanmer Park; what trails we have there dont cope with the use they get in the winter and the initiatives being suggested to classify trails here may see trail use even further exceed this ability. It needs to be managed correctly and sensitivley. I'd hate to the trails I started mountain biking on restricted. Im for the idea that it can introduce something for newbies into the sport but not potentially at the expense of everything else. My juries still out on this one...

No trails at all in those paticular NT woods jim_kirk, so nothing to shut down by building 'official' ones. Recent sanitised trailcentre trails in Haldon have not stopped the ongoing less official development of 'proper' ones elsewhere in the same wood, in fact several of them crisscross the gravelly blue trail! The woods round Plym Bridge way are managed/owned by three different bodies, already a designated bike area in fc-run woods half a mile away and lots of semi-cheeky in 2 other woods a further 2-ish miles away. I can't see the new trails making a difference to official or unofficial trail networks on other people's land. Plus there is just so much more technical/rooty/daft stuff to ride on down here. 8)

Jim - there's a very real possibility that it will have the opposite effect to those that you're suggesting.

A network of established and dedicated mountain bike trails will attract a large percentage of those who already ride through the area, as these trails are being built specfically for mountain bikers (as opposed to taking over existing footpaths, etc) then its highly likely that the bike traffic, conflict and erroision thats seen on the already established paths will be greatly reduced. This could, and should, resolve any issues between trail users and prevent any further restrictions being placed.

I was walking the dog down at plymbridge the other day and some old dear came up to me and asked me to come along to the meeting on thursday night, told her she was speaking to the wrong person about stopping the planning.She didnt have a clue how the trails were built, and had alot of points that she had basically dreamt up the night before until we got down to the crunch of it. She lives by the wrigleys factory somewhere haha.
She even had the nerve to put a flyer under my windscreen, I mean, what if someone I knew saw it, how embarrasing 😆
I mean didnt the mountain bikers sign a pertition only a few months ago stop land like this being sold off privately by the goverment? I think we are owed projects like this.

DCL, I actually heard that there will be a parking charge around the £2 mark.

Now being reported on the local news website [url= http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Act-cycle-track-plan/story-13258426-detail/story.html ]here[/url]

Apparently there has been a 'rallying call' by locals to protest the plans

I worked in Plymbridge Woods for the Trust a few years ago and there is certainly plenty of potential for some good trails in there (just follow my old tractor tracks from forestry work)not to mention plenty of space and old grown in access ways. Was great cheeky riding whilst I was there.

Of sections 5 and 7 I remember lots of locals fly-tipping garden rubbish over their back walls and a multitude of dog emptying paths.
Once in that NW corner the number of people I saw in a year could be counted on my hands (and that is with regular fingered hands rather than Devon ones ;))
As for parking, there is the Park and Ride or B&Q just a mile or so down the cycle path that is somewhat easier to reach from main roads.

Not sure if I can send a supporting letter as I still work in the Trust elsewhere, but if I can I will.

Done, hope this helps. My tuppeneth.

I am a mountain biker and mountain bike trailbuilder for Singletraction.

Mountain biking is here to stay and has a very important part to play in the nations fitness and the fight against obesity.

A well constructed trail built with the National Trusts backing is highly unlikely to impact the area's wildlife, flora or fauna.

It will however give riders a reason not to ride the existing paths if it is well built and exciting to ride.

On the subject of attracting more riders to the area, unless they are going to build miles and miles of trail I am not going to drive there from west Yorkshire but if I lived nearby it would be a real bonus.

Cycling is a very enviromently friendly and queit way of having fun.

just read the anguished letters of opposition 😆

it's not the nimbyism that makes my piss boil, it's the assumption people make that [b]their[/b] recreational activities have primacy over others, 'i walk my dogs', 'i watch the birds here' etc.

for those idiots alone, i hope that they scrap plans for an mtb trail and build a stock car track instead 8)

The nimbyism round our way is awesome. Plans for a skatepark near me were successfully blocked over concerns about 'noise'. The site is 300m from the nearest house, and right underneath a four lane 70mph flyover, adjacent to a sewage farm and main line railway. Since then they set up the speedway track next to it (to much local objection but not mine: it's ace and no trouble to live so close to), perhaps it is worth another go now...

Thanks for the help and great comments!
Keep spreading the word and we can hopefully make difference!

what gets me is the local rag giving all the attention to the local nimby's rallying round to rid the woods of this monstrosity and not one positive piece on the good aspects of the development...shame on the herald!!
email to planning sent btw. and im a cann local too..
have you seen the comments on the 'thisisplymouth' website... they boil my pith lots of "make no mistake this is a MAJOR development for EXTREME riders etc etc....just rubbish..

Carl and everyone else.
How about some positive press?
I am going to put out the idea of a ride in support of the plans.
Thinking of Wednesday evening at about 630 in the valley with the press.
What does everyone think?

Brilliant idea DCL, damn it, Im Oop Norf that day 😥

DCL - I live up the road a few miles and possiblt wouldn't use the site but I'll come along to support if I can.. I can't stand nimby's getting in the way of good community projects..

The letter strongly objecting on the grounds of the noise of shouting and screaming of thousands of mountain bikers passing the end of one old dears garden did give me cause for concern though..

If you're serious about an organised ride with the press try to make sure that you have a really good spokesperson available on the day..

it makes me very sad that stuff like this can be decided with the opinions of clueless mad old giffers taken into consideration.. I feel a bit sick

Hi guys. One of the things we need to do is make sure we submit enough support letters to Plymouth City Council to swamp the letters of opposition as on D day the volume of letters either supporting or opposing the scheme will be a factor in the councils decision. There's a 13th September deadline to submit your letter of support and we need riders, schools, businesses, basically as many letters of support as possible. I will send an email out to every cycle shop I can find an email address for tonight to rally support. We also need to get the Yogi's on side. The ride on Wednesday is a great idea providing you have the numbers otherwise it could have the opposite effect (can we get all the Yogi's to come along?). The opposition have now had a week of press time so their campaign will be building up momentum, we need to get in there now. I'll be there Wednesday if you can arrange it, I don't ride as much as I used to but I've been cycling Ply Valley since i was young and we need community projects like this so badly. Does anyone know who the Project Manager is for the scheme?

James Pascoe, think he's based from the Lanhydrock NT office, whole thing is part of 1SW project?

[url= http://www.1sw.org.uk/ ]http://www.1sw.org.uk/[/url]

THIS SHOULD LINK YOU TO THE NEW FACEBOOK PAGE FOR TEH CYCLE HUB!!

Shred are attending.
Silverfish lads should also be there.
We want as many as possible there.
Will be creating a press statement and flyers to hand out on the day.
Keep on spreading the word!

Thinking of Wednesday evening at about 630 in the valley with the press.
What does everyone think?

I'll be happy to travel from North Devon if this goes ahead.

We should try to get James Pascoe the Project Manager along. Also Shred Magazine have just sent a message out about this on their Face Book page and I've asked my mate to speak to the Yogi's (he rides with them)

Jim will be there!
Can someone log onto XCRACER and put a post on there about it.
I cant remember my log in.

Anyone from STW able to put this on the home page?!

posted on the woodland riders facebook site. i think thats currently about 600 members or so.

Excellent Jam Bo

Posted on the Outlaw Riders FB page too.. that's another 150 members 🙂

Just posted the Wednesday ride on xcracer too. (many localz there).

The Evening Herald website comments page, (albeit totsally irrelevant to the council's decision on planning) is getting quite funny. Some prankster keeps upsetting the local objectors with the calm application of local knowledge and actual facts, rather than poo-slinging and catastrophising about the woods becoming an MX wasteland.

IMHO a positive press article and as many emails as possible to the council is the real way forward though.

dcl, you have mail btw.

Posted a supportive email, even though I've never been to Plymouth (although a good trail centre would give us reason to! :P)

Cannock Chase faces a lot of similar 'problems' - lots of different users, relatively small area, trail running close to residents, environmentally sensitive areas, and it all seems to work out relatively fine. You'll always get nobbers in any group, whether it's walkers or riders, but generally everyone gets along.

Just reading through some of the complaints, some of them are quite comical!

Helen Ambrose claims that you can see [b]wild planets[/b] in the area 😆

Arthur Ainslie seems to be under the impression that bluebells should be a protected species 😀

Cheers, Rich

Just reading through some of the complaints, some of them are quite comical!

Ooh, ooh, I liked this one:

The part ofthe route near my back garden is designated as an advanced route so will without doubt generate considerable shouting and screaming, day and night

I like the idea that bikers going around a red route do so constantly screaming. Maybe it's because we're trying to go supersonic, like Banshee out of the X-Men? Or maybe it's how we communicate, like Donald Sutherland at the end of Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

Ive just walked what I could with the dog, not another walker, dog or cyclist in sight, with exception of the car park where the Hub will be built.
I parked up by Wood Park and bumped into a local resident on the way back. Its the second time Ive seen her spreading the good news to other walkers this week. Her main concerns were the cyclist clashing with the walkers and she basically wanted us all to piss off over to Cann Woods and leave the main trail site to the walkers. Her other issue was the entrance to the Wood Park estate where the trail has to cross road access to where she lives (about half a dozen houses).
I think these fools just dont want to share what they are already walking on, it has nothing to do with the enviromental impact because they seem quite happy for the hub and car park to be built. The fact that this lady and all her neighbours only got notice 21 days ago off the council also seems to have raised the boiling temperature haha.
I wont be there on Wednesday, but have shared the group on Face Ache as this will be great to have on the door step. Good luck guys

Email from dcl earlier today, the ride is definitely ON, 18.30 weds at Plym Bridge car park, press and various local teams in attendance.
I will be bringing kitted up kids for the 'its not just for rad thirtysomethings, its a faaaaaaamily thing' angle, as is dcl.

as I've mentioned.. the chances of me using the facility regularly are slim.. but I'm fairly local and want to show support for this good cause.. as such I will be trying to attend the ride on wednesday..

What are the trails like for a robust 2 year old in a rear mounted baby seat..? He likes it at Haldon..

Any good..?

The riding on Weds is an old well covered railway track.
The new ones will be similar levels to halden so a good addition.
The beauty of the Plym Valley is that it can be used so easily to access Dartmoor.
Great that you could make it.

What are the trails like for a robust 2 year old in a rear mounted baby seat..? He likes it at Haldon..

Long reclaimed railway path, or quite a lot of fire/forest road in Cann Wood on opposite side of the valley. Everything else in Cann would be a bit too rooty or steep for baby seat skillz IMO. But if/when the NT blue trail here is finished i am sure it would be just perfect! 😀

I'll be there with a mate from work & I've put the word out to friends etc on fb so hopefully more will come along too.

It goes without saying but I'll mention it anyway.

Anyone who is going along really should [b][u]NOT[/u] [/b]park in the Estover side streets especially those residents streets who are complaining against the development. We don't want to give them any ammunition to use against us

Steve 'Shred' Toze has just supplied xcracer.com with this rather helpful article:
[url= http://www.xcracer.com/Battle-for-the-Woods-Plymbridge-Woods-Trails.html ]http://www.xcracer.com/Battle-for-the-Woods-Plymbridge-Woods-Trails.html[/url]

Indeed, and as Toze's articles suggests we do, for minimum local-worrying it would be best to meet at 1800 in b&q marsh mills and then ride the five minutes up the railway path to the proper 'publicity' meeting at Plym Bridge itself.

Guys/Gals

I would suggest NOT parking in B&Q carpark without asking permission first as it is not a public car park. You could get clamped. All you need is one of the NIMBY's working there and getting "many many fine men" clamped.

D

Excellent idea dabalie.
Also have a read of the Steve Toze article.
Brilliantly written.
Will put it on Facebook

It is usually possible to park on the road outside B and Q.

Good point dabaldie. Not sure how risky it really is usually (yogis all seem to park there when they meet up without incident) but I suppose now the ride is in the public domain, any level of skulduggery is possible!

That was my point exactly. I have parked there many a time (once I asked and a store member looked dumbfounded and said I was the first person to have ever ask!!), but you just don't know this time. Skullduggery is such a cool word! Hopefully the manager is a cyclist on our side!

I'm afraid I shan't be able to make it on Wednesday after all. Sounds like it should be well represented though.

Bon chance, mes ami.

I'm there whatever.. I will try to bring the kids too, dependent on weather!

oh and please people keep your "noisy whooping" that we all do to a minimum 😉

If i don't whoop, am I still allowed to hi-five you after I've 'cleaned' the gravel zigzag down from the end of the railway tracks?

Steve Toze's article has now appeared on the front page of STW too. 😀
I remebered I had a login on SDH and posted up about tomorrow's meet'n'ride there too. So if anyone turns up on a 224 with a neckbrace on that will be my fault.

Well done to the organisers for meetings/flyers/etc.

No 224's or moto helmets in attendance, but from the group photo taken from the railway bridge, i gave up counting heads at about 250 😯 . Lots of children and women too, which I guess also further backs up the 'family' appeal of the developments. (props to the lass on the folding bike!) I certainly expect my kids to be good enough to have a good go at the blue trail by the time its finished... Nice atmosphere and small write-up on Evening Herald website this morning.

There is also another article in support of it featuring a local consultant heptologist talking about it from a public health angle, and another residents meeting on monday night.

NT are setting up shop in the car park on sunday afternoon and monday morning to publicise/answer ranty questions about it as well.

[b]But for all this, what also counts is positive letters/emails/electronic comments forms of support to the planning applications office (links earlier in the thread), so please if you haven't done so yet, get a wriggle on; the deadline for public support/objections is the 13th.[/b]

yes what a good turnout considering the small amount iof time given to organise!!
also nice to meet a few stwers I'd never met in person before.

where is the residents meeting?
It may be constructive to get an eloquent speaker there to explain that its not extreme etc etc
good on the NT for the car park stand...they are in for some flack!!

[url= http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Hundreds-cyclists-support-new-trail/story-13287094-detail/story.html ]Article is here[/url]

[url= http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Cycle-track-boost-fitness-city-ndash-doctor/story-13287065-detail/story.html ]Another one in support here[/url]

Out of interest, where are the other 5 places of investment for cycling mentioned? SW1 website is not the clearest.

and a nimby with a great answer already on the 2nd linked article 🙄

Sorry guys just having my 5 mins of fame 🙂

My picture is now on the BBC website articule about the cyclist turning up @ Plymbridge last night.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-14818710 ][b]Crispy Bacon's pic[/b][/url]

sorry I couldn't be there.. sounds like you had plenty of folk turn out anyway.. 🙂

best of luck

an eloquent speaker

Did somebody call?