[Closed] Planet X's brexit woes

"The road cc article comments suggests they are getting rid of permanent staff to replace them with short term contracts"

Nice

Using an employment agency that specialises in seasonal agricultural work and warehouse jobs.

Yeah, like that's a business model I'd want to support. I was thinking of the Jobsworth wheel stand but will spend elsewhere now.

Find myself using the local bike shop more now, at least I know I'm giving money to a decent family business.

Aha, they're sacking half the staff so they can employ them (or others) on a casual basis via an agency.

I got a free turnip with my gimp. Cheque cleared pretty quickly too. All went downhill after that.

The only thing about any of this that surprises me is that anyone is happy to spend money with them.

Interesting read, thanks

I used to shop with a them when they competed with crc, merlin and the like for branded stuff but they fell off the radar when they binned all the products people might actually want.

My mate has had an inbred, Parkwood, inbred for his daughter and a Titus carbon full suss. Seemed to like them but more through budget than anything else.

Didn't they used to have a rather good designer working for them?
Edit: I think he did a bit more than designing.

Thepodge- road.cc comments? People with no info saying it sounds like they are swapping staff out. Don't want to sound like I'm defending PX the incompetence shites but I don't think we know anything from it.

I can't help but agree with the Sports Direct comments.

I'd be very surprised if they really only made £100k profit from their turnover of £18.3 million. Some creative accounting there I suspect...

Poor QC, poor stock, poor service. That's why they're struggling.

Mind you, if we're talking about screwing over workers, Wiggle wins that one (having announced the closure of CRC's Northern Ireland operations, 300 job losses apparently)

The road cc article comments suggests they are getting rid of permanent staff to replace them with short term contracts

This is the sort of thing businesses do these days, they're preemptively trying to push their fixed costs down in anticipation of a UK consumer downturn. Especially if you're profit margins are ~0.5% of turnover...

Although there is a possibility that "Brexit Britain" might benefit PZ/OO. Consumers might not be so ready to chuck 1500 sheckles at a specialized or Cannondale in their LBS, when a sub £1k gamble with PX appears to tick many of the same spec sheet boxes...

Interesting that they're doing it a couple of months before Christmas though, I would imagine those apparently redundant staff finishing their notice periods could be passing their seasonal replacements on their own way out of the door...

Along with wiggle/CRC's job cuts does this seem like a surprise to people? Big name retailers/etailers adjusting to suit the coming shitstorm... *I Bet Evans will be scaling back somewhere too in the new year (*total speculation), staff numbers, stores maybe...

I'm genuinely surprised by how many posters appear to have little idea how a business functions and what financial pressures are placed upon its operations if they wish to remain competitive in an international market. We see huge fluctuations in sales from week to week the only sensible way to cover the work requirement that creates is to be flexible, and that means using agency staff. If consumers didn't want the lowest possible prices the world would be a different place.

There's a lot of consolidation well overdue in the UK bike industry, and it's coming soon, whether we like it or not. 'Peak Bike' was actually two years ago and unless TV coverage or government policy changes re transport infrastructure then that slide will continue.

Is that you Dave?

Someone has been drinking the corporate Kool-ade.

If consumers didn't want the lowest possible prices the world would be a different place.

Yeah, but what people say in this thread and what they actually do when it comes to getting their wallet out isn't always the same

They've been going downhill since they bought Jimmy Savilles bike collection.

18.3 mio turnover and 100k profit, I wonder what the board salaries/bonuses were? That's an awful lot of crooked seat posts and although I've never bought from them the phone bill can't be that high from what I can deduce from others comments.

Does this thread not show that "lowest price" isn't the only thing to be considered? Buyers try to balance cost, quality and service.

Some buyers (the buyers with money to spare - probably most people on this forum) balance cost, quality and service.
Most buyers just look for the cheapest without understanding or caring about how it is the cheapest.

If consumers didn't want the lowest possible prices the world would be a different place.

Evidence a). When I tried to buy some buttonhole chamois creme it was advertised on sale at £4.99. When I put it in the basket it was £14.99. I brought some other creme from Wiggle at £8.99. But if you offered me yours for £10 I would have bought it

Evidence b) Why would I buy a price-fluctuating Planet X / On one with widely reported possibilities of QC issues when I could buy a Giant Defy/Trance for the same money, and sometimes less?

Evidence c) The socks I bought from you shrunk to a point they dont fit after about 5 washes

Evidence d) I can send a lot of bits and pieces around the UK for less than you'd charge using Royal Mail or My Hermes,

Now, if you have sold me the Chamois creme at an as advertised sale price of say a £10 + reasonable postage I would have brought it. Clearly you've damaged your reputation by inconsistency across many fronts.

You need to listen - the people on here and reading this thread are your potential customers, curenttly that pool is reducing according to the trend of this thread. Get rid of the tat, have a constant pricing policy, narrow your stock too few mid-range On One / Planet X bikes, improve the QC and re-establish a reputation. Unfortunately that will take time.

However that's just the face of it. Any company - if these numbers are real - turning over 20m with that profit is either hiding something or doing something very, very wrong. Your either losing profit in returns, do not have a deep enough gross profit margin, have over invested somewhere, or the wage bill is exhorbantantly (given the circumstances) top heavy.

And don't claim theres no money in it, many other retailers are surging, and wiggle even have a model to be able to buy out crc in the current climate.

Running a business is of course not easy and running costs must be kept low. We all understand that.
But if a company is run incompetently then that reduces incoming revenue due to people buying elsewhere.
Customer service has been a joke for years - actually makes Dave Hinde look good. Quality control is awful, you just need to look at the London Road fiasco as an example of that. The way that was dealt with by them will be used in business management lectures world wide on how not to deal with a problem in business. Then this constant raising of prices in order to have the next great sale - every bloody week a new sale.
We're not stupid. We have disposable income to spend on bikes and parts and would love to keep the uk economy buoyant but this company has become a joke. Not a very funny one I must admit.
If it was run in the correct manor then trade would be better and these poor souls who will lose their jobs might still be employed.

[b]sq225917[/b]

No one even bothered to call up and ask...

best line in the thread.

I wonder what they've done with Saville's bikes they bought at that auction?
Scrapped them I hope.

UK sales dropped from 15.8mio to 14.5mio 2015 - 2016, Rest of world dropped from 4.1 to 3.7mio. I can see why they wish to cut costs. I assume the triathlete they have employed for product development is going to work bloody hard to design products to fill that drop in sales turnover. I would have thought quality products and 0% finance would work better than stack it high/sell it cheap in the cycling world.

As i said earlier in the thread, it really doesn't do PX any favours having someone post on here in a way that only reinforces a negative brand image. Especially when it comes across as being fairly thin skinned. There are clearly issues with service and quality, and nothing in this thread or the PX press release seems to give any clue as to how or if that might be addressed. Instead, 'lowest possible price' and all the associated compromises are what seem to matter. PX need to realise that customers are not blind to their corporate values, and that they currently speak volumes in the wrong way.

Still, another tenuous Fibonacci sale tomorrow!

EDIT - just checked email and its the 12 deals of xmas we were promised..

12% off selected items each day. When they get round to frames, the (rare) Inbred my mate bought for £144 on Tuesday, which is now £199, will be £175

Happy blooming Christmas to you too 🙂

He's bought the frame but needs all the other stuff to build a SS. None of that will come from PX as they don't stock owt useful in their pile of tat.

I always wondered why they didn't keep developing and building on their SL PRO model. It was once quite well regarded and IMO if they spent 10 years refining and improving they would have a decent brand.

same goes for a few other models.

instead their range seems to have grown massively and become really confusing. I also got the impression all these different bikes where just cheap off the shelf jobs or stock lot buys.

I think its a lack of brand building - what does the brand represent?

The prices have all gone up! 😆 £300 on the Fireline from £699 to 999...

It's all very annoying. They do some bar tape that is bloody good, I want to buy some, I'd happily pay £10 or £12 for it were it not for the fact that I know 3 weeks later it'll be £5, or £3, or £7. So whilst I need it, and am happy with the price, the fluctuation puts be off as I fear I'll pay too much. There's various other bits that fall into the same trap, all it means is that I don't buy the stuff in the end.

I'm fitting my 13 quid chunky monkeys from their summer sale later 🙂
Also their nrg sealant is good value and works great
I tend to buy stuff when it looks like a bargain and save it for when I need it
I like cheap stuff !

Yeah they have some issues, but take a look at a graph of the pound fall and it's not hard to understand that a lot of businesses are going to be hurting

Love the CRC advert at the top of this thread! Kimbers do you work for PX in marketing?

CRC drop staff and the whole world wants to kill Wiggle

Planet X drop staff and half this thread are like "I got something cheap, what do I care?"

But the current Chunky Monkeys must be almost twice as good at £25, while the BSC Type 1 (rebadged Speedster) is clearly three times as good as the ones stocked mid summer at £8 each! 😆

Or why not buy a Parkwood for £200 more than it was mid summer for £599, or spend £105 more on a pair of Emmental/El Guapo fat wheels that were £144 earlier in the year? 😆 😆

Thing is a lot of their stuff isn't cheap, 105 rear mech is £10 more expensive than Wiggle and as for the Holdsworth jersey at £149 who are they trying to kid.

I've also pretty much given up on P-X, their pricing is too volatile.

Having said that getting a Fatty Trail frame for £70 in the summer was a pleasant surprise...

sq225917 - Member

I don't know anything about business as you say, but my experience of the "old" PX/On One, first 29 er was a purple Inbred frame, second and third 29ers were a v1 black Scandal and a V2 raw Scandal, all great frames.

My recent experiences of the PX/On One of the last couple of years:

- Fatty Trail frame bought December 2015, seat tube too big, had to use a can to shim it out, still not got a replacement.
- "Holdsworth" (Mr Holdsworth must be turning in his grave) singlespeed road frame, paint just fell of in great big chunks with the lightest of contact. Took ages to exchange.
- Flat pedals bought 6 months ago, supposedly caused by being packed to tight with grease, the pedals barely turn on the axles.
- Sent back Reverb seatpost under warranty, told that you had never received it and therefore nothing you could do, only after threatening Smalls Claims proceedings and having to get documentary evidence from Post Office that a member of your staff signed for it and after 4 months, did you then send me a clearly used, Stealth Reverb as a replacement (i don't have hole in frame for Stealth one), lost all faith in your customer services to sold it instead of returning it.

So you think all your issues are due to fluctuating sales?

Not:
- Shonky quality control and frames that are simply made badly, how difficult is it to make a 30.9mm wide seat tube, 30.9mm wide internally?
- Terrible customer service.
- A range of bikes that if you were new to cycling is confusing as hell as so many models seem similar.
- Bombarding people with marketing emails selling the same "just found in a box at the back of the warehouse tat" sales emails every second hour with a pricing structure to the sale that you need a degree in maths to try and understand?
- Pricing on the website which i feel actually puts people off buying or delays them buying something, because it is based on DFS Sofas model, where you'd never buy it at full price because if you wait it'll probably be in a sale in a week?

So whilst as you say many of us don't understand business, some of us are out of pocket and have products clearly not fit for purpose, so i feel we have a right to have a dig? And with all of the above, do you feel that is good way to run a business?

Thing is a lot of their stuff isn't cheap,

Well, quite. PX have competitors who are often cheaper and have better service, so I can't think of any reason to use them.

Felt sorry for them, had a look round website.
ONE suspension fork!
Brakes, cranks, cassettes, chains, just a random mish mash of not cheap tat.

Bugger all of any use tbh.

My recent experiences of the PX/On One of the last couple of years:

- Fatty Trail frame bought December 2015, seat tube too big, had to use a can to shim it out, still not got a replacement.

I can match that, they posted me a QC failed frame that had (most of) the faults listed on the side of the box in big fat writing. I can only think they noticed the faults as it was obvious they had tried to fit a BB, so must have been in the bike-build piles. Clearly the team in charge of shipping frames wasn't quite as on the ball (taping postage label next to the hand written list of faults). Though I did get my money back once I returned it.

buckster - Member
Love the CRC advert at the top of this thread! Kimbers do you work for PX in marketing?

Certainly not!, their website is slow and confusing
a lot of their stuff is overpriced and loads of road stuff im not bothered about

But the current Chunky Monkeys must be almost twice as good at £25,

tbf they are still great tyres at that price

variable pricing obviously upsets many people, but you dont have to buy PX stuff
its just something that we (grudgingly) accept with budget airlines etc and part of online bargain bin shopping - crc do similar with their constant sales

Can't stand the variable pricing, has put me off buying a bike from them in the past.
Makes them look like a bunch of spivs.

Daughter has a bike and a frame, the latter arrived damaged and she had the usual lies and appalling service attempting to get it resolved.

Life's too short to deal with shonky, untrustworthy companies, no matter how good the perceived value.

I nearly bought a London Road frameset on Sunday at £144.99 but was a bit dubious given the quality issues. Sat on it over night and surprise surprise it has gone up to £199.99. Won't be having that then, even with the 'Christmas discount ' that will no doubt be applied.
I only bought my Parkwood because it was cheap although at the time oddly enough more expensive on the On Ine site than the PX one.

We see huge fluctuations in sales from week to week the only sensible way to cover the work requirement that creates is to be flexible, and that means using agency staff. If consumers didn't want the lowest possible prices the world would be a different place.

I don't know how you're going to fix your customer service problems with people who only work a week or two at a time for PX. Ignoring quality control, one of the biggest complaints is wrong stuff shipped, mislaid returns, late shipping, nobody answering the phone or getting back on email requests in a timely fashion. 5 years ago I had GREAT service from PX around Xmas, earlier this year I never even got a reply on an enquiry (you left money on the table there, a German company got that).

I almost bought a new frame from PX this year but all the QC/CS issues put me off. I spent more to get something from a local shop. Oh, and the postage to Europe is extortionate which didn't help either.

I feel for those loosing jobs, and the (likely) zero hours agency contractors being brought in.
I also feel for those leading the business - no easy decisions in this at all. The usual online response is not overly helpful at times either.
[img] [/img]

I personally stopped using OO/PX because - I don't understand the constantly varying prices, and frankly have more important things in life then checking their site for good prices, I also had a couple of orders messed up, and had to endure their customer service that felt like this.
[img] [/img]
Simply, other companies offered something more for my money - even if it cost more, that was more important to me than lowest cost.

it seems Planet X / On-one are not having the best of weeks, and they're taking a bit of a bashing on this thread, which can't be helping.

My Codeine is ace, it's well built and i think it's full price was very reasonable. spare axles/bearings/dropouts are well stocked and fairly priced.

it seems to me that buried under the sports-direct business model is a good bike company. i wish it well.

Some of their bikes are excellent, customer service is and always has been criminal.

They are basically the sports direct of the bike world, and judging by their latest staffing plan, they have the ethics to match.

I meant to order a narrow-wide chainring off them earlier this week, I forgot and now can't ethically order one. Have to go race face now!!

Is the good bike company still there? The one that designed/chose good products and got them made to hit a decent spot on the strong/cheap/light spectrum at an OK quality? I still love my Scandal and the feel of my Fleegle bars, and if the Codeine is what it looks like (my Transition Bandit 29er) then that would be ace as well. Is that sort of thing still being done?

Actually at £144 I wish I'd seen the LR framesets for that. My silver one was £150, it's done great, inc Torino Nice. Shim works well (wink).
But it's a bit bashed up now and I'd have preferred a black one, which were £300 back then.

So recently they were 300 - then 145 - then 200 - then Xmas 12% sometime whenever so probs £175 - I'll have one for that ta.

Bit daft/DFS though eh!

Is the good bike company still there? The one that designed/chose good products

That dude makes trousers now.....

+1 atlaz, moving to casual agency staff might save money but it will add to not solve their other problems. The (lack of) care they take of their website, with products with little or no description, often inaccurate and full of typos is a reflection of the care they take of the rest of their business and their customers. These were publicised on FB adverts, and despite me pointing it out then they haven't bothered to correct anything 🙄

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SHVIUNQ30/vittoria-unique-30th-anniversary-road-cycling-shoe

Vittoria's 30th Anniversay shoes

Please note these shoes are cosmetic ends and may some have slight discolouration

and ref

I meant to order a narrow-wide chainring off them earlier this week, I forgot and now can't ethically order one. Have to go race face now

£15 at Superstar if that's not another can of worms.

Now that Brexit's off will you be re-employing all these staff on their old t's and c's sq34276436523442332?

Thought not.

You'll have to ask Bikebiz what our next move is, seeing as they made the original article up...

thepodge - Member

CRC drop staff and the whole world wants to kill Wiggle

Planet X drop staff and half this thread are like "I got something cheap, what do I care?"

TBH that's not surprising, because of the differences in the companies- most of the negative comments about On One are "Sigh, typical". CRC and Wiggle otoh might be Bike Amazon but they do tend to do the job. Different levels of xpectation, basically. Same reason Scottish people don't all go mental when we don't win the world cup.

You'll have to ask Bikebiz what our next move is, seeing as they made the original article up...

you keep saying that and then trotting out a load of specious corporate waffle as you've adopted the role of formal PX defender, but you haven't said what was inaccurate? The money figures? The number of layoffs? Or just the Brexit speculation as the cause? A lot of people on here DO know how business work because, guess what, they own, run or work for them. The road.cc 'clarification' and the substance of your reply is that P-X are laying off close to half their permanent staff and replacing them with casual staff from an agency used to sourcing factory work and crop picking, which will cut costs but also performance.

This is a huge MTB forum (isn't it the biggest in Europe?) and representative of your core market (internet savvy, often price conscious enthusiasts). This and all the other P-X bashing threads are free market research in what you're doing wrong and how you're alienating former happy customers (including me - the Codiene ticks all the boxes for a bike both me and my other half are looking at but after the L-R seattube debacle we won't be buying another bike from you). If someone at P-X Towers paid attention this is stuff companies pay a fortune for. Reduce your bewildering range, stop variable pricing, improve QC and CS.

wot crashtestmonkey said. Especially;

[i]If someone at P-X Towers paid attention this is stuff companies pay a fortune for. Reduce your bewildering range, stop variable pricing, improve QC and CS. [/i]

Well put.

We're only moaning because we want you to be better Planet X.

Is it too late though?

I imagine someone who has built a company from pretty much nothing to being worth 20 million in 20 years probably doesn't give 2 hoots what this forum says because all in all, its a success.

I think I missed the bit where the company is 'worth 20 million' - where's that info from?

Yep, for every buyer from here - who weighs up every pro and con and knows every bike on the market and who tracks prices, reads reviews, etc - there will be 5 more who just get tempted by something shiny - see the discount and take a punt.

As a member of the former, I'll be shopping at PX about as often as I do at Sports Direct (who are also reasonably successful without me).

It's a shame - their BishBashBosh looks like it could be right up my street, but the fact my friend has one and has suffered with a few returns to get it right has put me off. I absolutely hate being deprived of my bike.

crispedwheel - I think I missed the bit where the company is 'worth 20 million' - where's that info from?

I wouldn't buy any PX/O-O products based on my experience of poor quality goods from those brands, and what I've learned of their 'customer service'. And sq225917's attempt at a 'defence' (not to mention stealth advertising, surely that's against forum rules?) only makes me even less likely to ever shop with them.

As for admiring Mike Ashley, well, that kind of sums it up really.

sq225917 as I and others have made clear on a number of occasions in this thread, every time you make a thin skinned and defensive reply on here, you create further brand damage. Yet for whatever reason you cannot see this. You need to accept the truth of the issues you are getting from your customers - I am one of them. If you choose a one dimensional path of arrogance then good luck, you will need it. But you can actually make more money as a company by listening to your customer's needs and their very valid criticisms. Start by acknowledging there are some key areas of improvement needed, and follow it up with action and clear communication.

[img] [/img]

Yep, the variable pricing is the main reason I don't buy from them anymore.. and the variable quality.

I finally unsubscribed to their email spamming list this morning.

If Planet-X are reading this - stop treating your potential customers like idiots.
The weekly 'final/everything must go/look what we've just found hidden in a box/Christmas come early' sales aren't fooling anyone.
It is all just the same tat they were pumping out last month, just with different prices.
I'd much rather they found a niche (maybe they had one a few years back) and tried to be good at it..

I've recently ordered a new Exposure light, it is nice to know that if it falls over in 4 years time they'll only be too happy to fix it for a fair price.
Can't say the same for Planet X customer service.

I imagine someone who has built a company from pretty much nothing to being worth 20 million in 20 years probably doesn't give 2 hoots what this forum says because all in all, its a success.

you're probably right. The fact that Chain Reaction and Wiggle went from being local bike shops to being worth £150m and £180m respectively (2014 figures, quoted in press about their merger) in the same market in a similar period is unlikely to dent the ego of Dave Loughran.

Tescos is clearly a successful and huge business, that doesn't mean they can't make poor decisions and suffer financially as a consequence.

I guess for those asking what happened to the inbred/scandal On-One of old that we all liked, this is the answer:
https://partners.singletrackworld.com/Alpkit-Technical-Clothing-Equipment/showcase/bikes

Aye, indeed. Said as much earlier as an example of doing things properly.

I wonder if sq gets paid for this, or if he's got a telling off from the boss coming? I do social media stuff for work, if I got reactions like this my boss'd wedgie me.

sq is probably the boss.

A business with any kind of media strategy would/should control channels of communication like this, especially as it has such a reputational impact. So no, prob a bit sneeky on the side, but if not then a massive own goal.

AlexSimon

I guess for those asking what happened to the inbred/scandal On-One of old that we all liked, this is the answer:
https://partners.singletrackworld.com/Alpkit-Technical-Clothing-Equipment/showcase/bikes

Yeah good point that - Alpkit are very similar to the PX/OO of old - a limited range of niche bikes and parts with a definite slot in the the market.

Guess PX lost that by the random all-sorts stocked to try and grow turnover. That and the terrible pricing policy and woeful social media presence demonstrated here.

Alpkit are very similar to the PX/OO of old - a limited range of niche bikes and parts with a definite slot in the the market.

Guess PX lost that by the random all-sorts stocked to try and grow turnover

they seem to have wanted to be all things to all men and been a bit scattergun. They follow the Sports Direct model of buying up bankrupt heritage labels to stick on Chinese catalogue kit, but then try to introduce premium lines such as Holdsworth and Viner (didn't they buy an entire manufacturing line in Italy with the plan to hand build high-end frames?). Then they stick 3 different labels, including a premium name, on the same bike/frame, only to be called out by the owner of one the names they've licensed (Tomac) who, it appears but feel free to correct me SQ, has to approve the use of his name.

All this whilst buying up warehouses full of random old/bankrupt kit and selling it off like a bargain bin, tarnishing the image of the supposed high-end stuff listed alongside it.

I'm sure SQ is doing this off his own back out of a sense of loyalty to his employer which is commendable, at least he gives a sh1t which is more than can be said for the QC and CS departments and very possibly the management.

only to be called out by the owner of one the names they've licensed (Tomac) who, it appears but feel free to correct me SQ, has to approve the use of his name.

It's odd as it would be so easy to make their ranges look coherent:
Viner - High end road and CX
PX - Mid to low end road and CX
On-One - Mid to low end MTB or hardtails only
Titus - High end MTB or full-sus only
Holdsworth - faux vintage/retro stuff
Tomac - Dropped, maybe CX I guess
Selcof - Components
Jobsworth - Tools and hardware.
Sells the clothing under the same verticals and jobs a good 'un.

But then you'd struggle to hide cheap frames and kit so well...

i was quite tempted by some of the winter gloves 😳

The Planet-X to Alpkit goes deeper than that, David Hanney was director at Planet-X and is now director at Alpkit and Mango bikes.

Have Planet-X done something to p*ss off Shimano, seems very little of it on their site and on their bikes.

teamhurtmore - Member

i was quite tempted by some of the winter gloves
Posted 39 minutes ago #

Not buying it through the official channels I would imagine.

It was very strongly hinted that a UK distributor dropped Giro because a container load appeared at PX without their say so