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The path I was talking about is the prom along the shore. I share your frustrations about folk walking 3,4 or more abreast but equally you wouldn't slalom through traffic so why through people? The problem isn't ebikes or even cyclists, it's about people who can't share or show consideration. Unfortunately when such a conflict arises its only going to go one way, we have dozens of "cyclists give way" signs about the place now thanks to folk that can't behave properly.
Personally I don't see sea fronts as places where pedestrians should maintain any 'lane discipline'. It somewhere u go for fresh air rather than it being primarily a means to get from A to B.
Unfortunately the miopic twunts in North Ayrshire council don't share your opinion and as such there is a conflict between meandering pedestrians and cyclists avoiding the A road through town.
On the outskirts of Amsterdam it was fine as the cycle paths were pretty quiet, but near the centre it was horrible – one of the worst cities I’ve ridden a bike in which was a surprise.
My Dutch, cycling, friend moved out of Amsterdam because the city was overrun by anarchic cyclists and she felt it had become too dangerous to walk around in.
Personally the current limit seems to make sense. Back in my fitter days a good cross-country average pace for me was 17.5 mph. Would I enjoy a faster pace apart from downhill - probably not.
Here in Germany there is again a growing sentiment of anti mtb mostly thanks to ebikes, or rather those that ride them.
They don’t belong on trails, imo
That’s a bit of a shame, perhaps more consideration is needed.
They don’t belong on trails, imo
Again a shame, at the moment,I wouldn’t be able to ride and enjoy trails if that view becomes more prevalent.
Personally I don’t see sea fronts as places where pedestrians should maintain any ‘lane discipline’. It somewhere u go for fresh air rather than it being primarily a means to get from A to B.
This. The problem with shared facilities is that pedestrians do not behave as if they are traffic. Nor should they have to.
This. The problem with shared facilities is that pedestrians do not behave as if they are traffic. Nor should they have to.
Why not? Perhaps pedestrians should be able to lay down their towel and sunbathe or have a picnic right in the middle of the path?
tjagain
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yes they are – check the legislation. 250 w continuous output.
Yip, which means nothing.
Personally the current limit seems to make sense.
Agree. It is pretty much the average speed I do over 20 or 30 miles and it feels fast enough.
Not sure where the speed limit came from but guessing it was aligned to a pretty average cycling speed? 20mph is not a pretty average cycling speed and is only for the very fit serious cyclist.
but not sure the limited speed of 15.5mph is the thing putting them off is it?
Exactly. Going to have no impact on uptake of ebikes for commuting. This is all about getting a speed boost off road. You just have to spend half an hour on the eMTB forum to see the attitude of some riders, especially to derestriction and even higher assisted speeds. As usual it’s only a small minority of ebike riders but that’s all it takes to ruin it for everyone else.
15.5mph does seem a bit random until you convert it Europe wide to kph.
I’ve only had two rides on my ebike so far, so maybe I’ve just not got used to the boost yet, but the way you get up to the limit so quickly is startling. A few good pedal strokes downhill and I hit the limiter. I think it’s this and the speed differential uphill that needs careful and considerate riding. Tales of kids being harassed is awful but I’ve seen the same at Glentress from Strava warriors on their enduro bikes treating the final blue as a race track.
I think it’s this and the speed differential uphill that needs careful and considerate riding
That's a good point. One wouldn't propose a universal car speed-limit throughout the UK; it should depend on the circumstances.
For example, I would suggest that doing 15.5 mph on a tightly twisting uphill trail past walkers and slow-moving non-e-bike cyclists is much more dangerous than doing 15.5 mph on a b-road.
Not sure where the speed limit came from
25kmh is the speed limit for cycle paths in Germany, if you go faster you are meant to be on the roads. That may be common across Europe, not really sure, but I think that is why the ebike limit is also 25kmh.
The simple truth is, people don’t need pedelecs to provide higher speed assistance, they just want to go fasterer because its more fun, especially when you don't have to provide all the effort.
All this "keeping up with traffic" bollox is a spurious claim, if you want to keep up with motorised vehicles, buy a motorised vehicle. If you want to cycle regularly and not have hills kick the arse out of you, buy a pedelec.
The rules as they stand, are fine, they protect pedestrians and riders in and around urban areas. The problem is that the technology is easy to hack and lots of users know this, so that 'wasted potential' becomes something they feel the desire to use and hence feel the law should change to suit them, not the wider transport safety context...
The rules as they stand, are fine, they protect pedestrians and riders in and around urban areas.
Then you agree that the e-bikes should be afforded a higher speed limit in rural areas?
Then you agree that the e-bikes should be afforded a higher speed limit in rural areas?
They're subject to the same speed limits as all vehicles. They can all go faster than 15.5mph, the meat sack in charge just needs to work harder 😉
But no I see no, reason to provide some new "extra-urban higher assist speed rule". 15.5mph is plenty to get you up a hill or take the edge off a head wind...
Turning it round why do users need to be nudged along faster on a country B-road?
Increasing the speed limit of e-bike will help to increase the useful commuting range of e-bikes.
It isn't just a matter of fatigue but one of how long commuters want to spend commuting, of sitting in the saddle.
For example, right now I can do my 13-mile commute in about 1 hr on my normal bike at a decent pace. An e-bike with a 20 mph limit may be able to turn that into a 45 min commute making it much more attractive to many people or allowing people living maybe 18 miles away to do it in 1 hr.
Increasing the speed limit of e-bike will help to increase the useful commuting range of e-bikes.
I agree with part of that.
Yes bikes should be able to go faster for that exact purpose.
But it's no longer an e bike oh and as I've mentioned a few times...... The mechanism for this exists it's an s-pedelec classification.
So trying to raise ebikes speed limits on that grounds is ignorant of the current rules tbh.
But the s-pedelec classification would be useless to me because I couldn't use the cycling paths and bridleways.
So what powered speed to you want people to be able to use on bridleways and “cycling paths”?
But the s-pedelec classification would be useless to me because I couldn’t use the cycling paths and bridleways.
Apt user name. Wanting cake and to eat it.
It's either a bike or it's not.
And saying I don't have to go flat out is not an arguement because maybe I'll just nip along it on my 600cc sports bike -but I'll go canny ......
So what powered speed to you want people to be able to use on bridleways and “cycling paths”?
I'd say at least 18 mph.
And saying I don’t have to go flat out is not an arguement because maybe I’ll just nip along it on my 600cc sports bike -but I’ll go canny
Your motorbike probably weighs at least 150 kg.
Perhaps all bikes should be limited to 15.5 mph including purely pedal-powered ones?
Increasing the speed limit of e-bike will help to increase the useful commuting range of e-bikes.
It will? Don't they just gobble up more electricity the faster you go, making higher speeds worse for range?
It isn’t just a matter of fatigue but one of how long commuters want to spend commuting, of sitting in the saddle.
You either like cycling or you don't, an extra half hour in the saddle could be seen as a positive...
For example, right now I can do my 13-mile commute in about 1 hr on my normal bike at a decent pace. An e-bike with a 20 mph limit may be able to turn that into a 45 min commute making it much more attractive to many people or allowing people living maybe 18 miles away to do it in 1 hr.
I have a similar situation, a 10 mile commute, I take the quieter, scenic route in (45mins) on a laden old touring bike with some climbing, and the more direct (35-40mins) home. If I drive its maybe 25-30mins each way traffic and weather dependant.
I've had longer and shorter commutes in the last couple of decades but spending an extra half hour-ish total on a bike isn't really much of a hardship. A 20mph pedelec would make my cycle option similar to my driving (or Motorcycle?) option time wise. Frankly I don't want that, all it would do is make a relaxing, stress relieving cycle to work as rushed an stressful as getting in the tin box (IMO)...
I understand your making a point about people being "time crunched" and that the fact that every 5 miles further you live from your work place has a disproportionate effect on the viability of cycling as a commuting option, but actually there is something to be said for keeping the pace comfortable...
Plus as soon as you OK a 20mph country assist mode, it's going to be used in and around towns...
Perhaps all bikes should be limited to 15.5 mph including purely pedal-powered ones?
Tbh mostly they already are when talking about commuters.
I’ve had near misses from oblivious e-bikers both on trails (slog uphill at Llandegla where one was slaloming round everyone) and when on a shared path with my daughter (suddenly finding someone zipping between us) and IMO it’s only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed by one given the weight of them. More speed is not the answer, 15.5mph is plenty fast enough for assistance.
Whilst I support your frustration withe the 'degla tube, I don't agree with the rest of your post. You sound very like a frothed up cycle hating gammon....
it’s only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed by one given the weight of them.
What a ridiculous comment. Do you know how many people get killed by cars every single day, and here's you objecting to the solution because somebody, perhaps, in the future might get injured by one. Do you not see how stupid that sounds?
No he sounds like someone who doesn't want to mix with faster moving vehicles with his daughter.....in what were safer spaces.
Plus as soon as you OK a 20mph country assist mode, it’s going to be used in and around towns…
I do see your point but we 'trust' motorists to mostly keep to variable speed limits but it seems e-cyclists can't be trusted?
Isn't this an example of Daily Mail 'lycra lout' characterisation where 'irresponsible cyclists' can't be trusted?
here’s you objecting to the solution because somebody, perhaps, in the future might get injured by one. Do you not see how stupid that sounds?
Cos that would never happen....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-london-51707616
do see your point but we ‘trust’ motorists to mostly keep to variable speed limits but it seems e-cyclists can’t be trusted?
Motorists by and large can't. So I'm good with keeping speeding e bikes off shared use paths.
Mr Cake,
I know it is a Tyler Hamilton cliche but I think cycling is about burning matches. At the end of a long day you burn a lot of matches getting up a hill on a commute. With battery assist taking the edge (I say edge, I mean a huge chunk) off the hills as well as accelerating away from lights and junctions that's a lot of unburnt candles. Is there any reason you can't use some of those unspent matches to get you up beyond 25kph on your B roads using your actual legs? What with it being a bike and all.
I gave my 25 mile new commute a test drive yesterday (for fun, not going to work) - it's a bit of a beast. 15.5mph average human powered is a distant dream I feel and that's on a relatively light road bike. And you know how I'm going to tackle it - by getting up a little bit earlier not signing a petition 😉
I deliberately bought a fixed gear bike to limit my top speed on the flat when commuting. Max sustainable speed was just short of 25mph due to the gearing (could do about 30 down hill). Normally I'd be riding around 20-22mph. Same conditions with gears, easily upto and above 30.
just nuts allowing ebike assist to go much faster.
I deliberately bought a fixed gear bike to limit my top speed on the flat when commuting. Max sustainable speed was just short of 25mph due to the gearing (could do about 30 down hill). Normally I’d be riding around 20-22mph. Same conditions with gears, easily upto and above 30.
just nuts allowing ebike assist to go much faster.
ATM they aren't allowed anywhere close to your 20-22 mph assisted so I don't know what you mean.
Given the speed of the leisure cyclists we passed today, I'd say 25km/h is way too much. Most were doing around 15km/h.
Well, I used to have the same fundamentalist or purist attitude as you convert but now I can see the benefit of e-bikes as part of a low-carbon transport strategy. Many people are never going to be able to get or stay ultra-fit, and some people are just old. Besides, even for a fit cyclist, an e-bike could increase the useful commuting range by bike getting them out of the car or off a train or bus.
This might as well be the Daily Mail comments section given attitude and stereotyping of fellow cyclists. Even the thread title is misleading as it’s assistance that stops at 25kmh not a limit on how fast you can go. Personally anything that gets people out of cars is a good thing and if raising the limit helps then why not?
Given some argue it’s all about safety maybe we better start a petition to get all bikes limited to 25kmh? I bet it would get a lot more votes.
Whilst I support your frustration withe the ‘degla tube, I don’t agree with the rest of your post. You sound very like a frothed up cycle hating gammon….
With all due respect, you're talking shite. You also sound like the sort of entitled twunt that thinks a shared space is fair game to ride how you please yet would be the first to cry foul as soon as a driver did the same on a road.
What a ridiculous comment. Do you know how many people get killed by cars every single day, and here’s you objecting to the solution because somebody, perhaps, in the future might get injured by one. Do you not see how stupid that sounds?
As pointed out, it's happened already. And why are cyclists considered vulnerable road users? Maybe the difference in weight and speed? Now apply that to a shared cycle path where you want to increase that speed differential beyond normal commuting speeds.
And you keep missing the point that you can get a bike that does what you want
It just means you have to stay on paths/roads suitable for use of them.
Eh? Assume that's not me.
Personally anything that gets people out of cars is a good thing and if raising the limit helps then why not?
Does it help, where is the data that more people would cycle if eBikes had a higher limit?
The 25kph is clearly what is deemed a "pedal bike speed" (based on a good average speed for an average cyclist, or probably faster than average cyclist) If raising it why stop at 20mph, why not 30 mph? Ah, maybe because that would then be a scooter speed and require helmet, tax, insurance etc,.
Yes you can ride a bike at 30mph but those that do/can really are in the 0.0001% of cyclists.
Now apply that to a shared cycle path where you want to increase that speed differential beyond normal commuting speeds.
Plenty of commuters do more than 15.5 mph.
Aye right ye are, I average 15mph or so on my mostly flat commute on my hybrid (7.5 miles in just under 30 mins) the road rats can go faster but funnily enough they shun the cycle paths and stick to the road.
I'm sure though that you're about to pull a load of data out to back yourself up and blow my analogy out the water, aren't you? You can do it at the same time you back up your assertion that present assisted speed limits are discouraging uptake of e-bikes.
Plenty of commuters do more than 15.5 mph.
Do they really though......
Do they do block Speeds the whole commute higher than 15.5mph or do they sometimes reach 20 down a hill.....because the latter is what I see based on local folks Strava records of their commmutes
I do see your point but we ‘trust’ motorists to mostly keep to variable speed limits but it seems e-cyclists can’t be trusted?
Car drivers consistently prove that people (at the end of the day we are talking about people operating any of these modes of transport) can't be trusted to adhere to a speed limit, so no we don't trust them...
Isn’t this an example of Daily Mail ‘lycra lout’ characterisation where ‘irresponsible cyclists’ can’t be trusted?
I never used the term "Lycra lout", I haven't "characterised" e-bike users at all.
Like I said humans are flawed, we hadn't gotten past page one of this thread before someone who "knows better" than the existing law, had owned up to having chipped their e-bike for moar speed...
This whole discussion is about what's "Street legal" in the UK. Do what you like on private land, but I'd always rather the rules err on the side of caution with road going vehicles of any sort.
The legislation as it stands caterers for the "lowest standard" of bicycle user, for whom there is no barrier or prior requirements to demonstrate skill/ability in operating an e-bike on the road/shared path/bridalway. Therefore it is only right that the capabilites of the equipment are limited in order to control the level of risk...
Or do you want "e-bicycle licences"? Now there's a DM concept for you...
The legislation as it stands caterers for the “lowest standard” of bicycle user, for whom there is no barrier or prior requirements to demonstrate skill/ability in operating an e-bike on the road/shared path/bridalway. Therefore it is only right that the capabilites of the equipment are limited in order to control the level of risk…
Nobody is arguing that they should be unrestricted just that 15.5 mph is too onerous a restriction.