[Closed] People listening to music whilst cycling are morons

What a load of crap.

its fine if your on your todd but when your with other folk that have head phones in it really grinds my gears. maybe they just dont want to talk to me? meh.....

If I ran a junction or pulled out in front of a car with my headphones on then i deserve to be run over, it's my own fault. I seldom ride in rush hour town traffic, but use headphones at all other times on my bike.

Cyclists who rush lights and don't look over their shoulders when pulling out are going to get run over, headphones or no headphones. I can't hear traffic approaching when in my car, why should I feel disadvantaged by wearing headphones on my bike?

I tend to agree with The Times. What is it with people nowadays that they need non stop music pumped into their brains?

listen all the time when riding 😀

(out on my own riding off-road)
not stupid enough to do it on the road, to many idiot car/lorry drivers out there

I prefer the tinny sound of music through my mobile phone's loudspeaker, so that everyone else can hear it too.

Especially when I'm on the bus...

i agree with richmars .riding off road part of the experience is natural sounds birds animals wind etc etc .

couldn't evan finish that article it was so daft

- when I wear headphones I can still hear traffic just fine
- are deaf people banned from cycling?
-is loud music, engine noise banned in cars?
- the accidents described in the article have nothing to do with headphones

Another said that “iPod zombies are a menace. I saw a bus clip one of them the other day in Victoria who was oblivious to anything around him.”

I commute into Central London (N1) most days wearing phones .. I've never felt one bit less aware or robbed of spacial awareness with em in - Mind you there's so much traffic noise in general and so many cars around me that I always expect cars to be everywhere at any time.

My sister cycles everywhere and is deaf - is she a moron?

I do feel a bit disconnected and less aware wearing headphones - but the article is yet another attempt to lay the blame for all the cycling injuries and deaths purely at the door of the cyclists. Never a mention of dangerous or aggressive driving contributing.

I prefer the click of a nice freewheel ,music to my ears

are cars allowed to have radios, are car drivers allowed to use phones, are cars allowed to have screaming kids in the back, are car drivers on licence? the answer to all is yes, but there seems to be this idea that you have a right to drive and that rather than pay attention and ensure that your actions do not kill someone else, it is the role of everyone else to keep out of the way of drivers. and it is the person hit by the car that is at fault for getting hit.

Obviously she needs to be wearing a helmet 😉

Apart from that, i wear earphones all the time but i'm also very aware of whats around me at all times. As said previous, its just the same as having your radio on in the car. The article also mentions cycling on a pavement, boris johnson having a 'zero tolerance stance', yet the next paragraph he's giving 'greater leeway to encourage cyclists'. Its full off errors that have nothing to do with wearing earphones but more to do with commuters not giving a dam,

Glad he aint seen this video, especially near miss with cop car at 1:28

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I'm a moron then.

Silly article.
What's dangerous is people not paying proper attention to what's around them - this can apply to pedestrians, cyclists and drivers - with music/headphones or without.
Also, sometimes people put too much reliance on what they can hear - you often can't hear a bicycle approaching, so your hearing is never a substitute for checking around you.
(Although, I did get TWO pedestrians walk into my bike this week - they were crossing the road without looking, and didn't hear me shouting at them! I stopped, obviously...)

There's a line in that article says it all. Says something about what do cyclists expect drivers to do - give way to them all the time... Well yes actually, seeing as that's what the rules say.

adey205 - Member
listen all the time when riding

(out on my own riding off-road)
not stupid enough to do it on the road, to many idiot car/lorry drivers out there

+1 but not all the time off road, only on my solo training rides

I have tried music while off roading. I had no recollection of any of it. Dint bother again.

yep got to agree with all you idiots on here always has to be the other persons fault "he or she should be looking out for me in my dumb ass could not give a **** world"
We do not stop deaf people from what ever they want to do could use the same reasoning to keep stupid inward think twits off internet forums

Yup, long road training rides (3 hours+, solo, quiet country roads) tend to be much more tolerable with a bit of music. I have it low enough that I can still hear cars, but as grievoustim says, I don't actually change what I do if I hear a car - I carry on riding in a straight line and always look behind before pulling out.

If I was riding in busy traffic I wouldn't have music on - but hey, that's my choice.

People who post unproveable sweeping generalisations on the internet are morons... 🙂

Being deaf and listening to music are not the same thing. Listening to music is a distraction being deaf is not distracting.

Listening to the wireless or them new fangled ear-pods probably isnt the best idea, as it must rob you of a bit of your hearing, but I wouldn't call any one a moron for it.
As some have said, where would that leave deaf cyclists ( or deaf drivers- should they also be banned?)
Most cars are well sound insulated and nearly all are sold with distracting devices. I've seen more near accidents caused by someone fiddling with the radio dial than cyclists with headphones.

You are distracted in a car in city traffic you potentially have a bump, you kill a cyclist or pedestrian.Your distracted on a bike in traffic your potentially dead!

I have a pisspot with built in speakers 😀
Music tbh could be louder with my existing mp3 though.
Can hear road noise fine and great for solidary rides.

the "its distracting" argument is fine - but you have to then extend the logic to say no music, conversation, sat nav etc in cars

you either accept that people are capable of controling a vehicle (any vehicle) whilst listening to music, or you think that anyone is a moron for having music on (in a car/ bike / whatever)

Ed2001, if you're distracted in a car your 'bump' could equally kill a pedestrian or cyclist

It's not the distraction that bothers me, as said most things can be distracting it's the effect on you as a road user. Your distracted in a car, chances are your going to cause a problem for someone else, your distracted on a bike your going to be the one in trouble. Listening to the radio in my car in traffic is unlikely to increase my chances of dying ( accident maybe, dying no) listening to music on a bike in traffic is.

that article is nonsense, purely inflamatory jumping on the anti-cyclist prejudiced bandwagon

I hit a pedestrian the other day who walked out infront of me because he was more bothered about not spilling his coffee than checking the road.
every day I have people walk out in front of me because they're on the phone, or listening to music or just not looking - I'm sure I'm not the only person this happens to but do we see articles in the press about 'zombie pedestrians'? - no

Your distracted in a car, chances are your going to cause a problem for someone else

Especially the truck who's path you have just moved into and is now gonna ram your sorry dead ass

The latest DfT figures show that 820 cyclists were killed or seriously injured in the three months to June, a 19% rise on the same period in 2008. [b]It is not known how many of these cases were caused by people listening to music because the DfT and the police do not record the information[/b]

Maybe cloud patterns are responsible, or the recent increase in mole hills?

I always listen to music while I ride on the road, and often off road..
Always have it a level that I can hear the traffic tho.. But there's nowt like a decent bit of DnB to get yer legs going..

I can't stand listening to music while I'm riding! Total distraction. Most races now ban use of headphones for that very reason. Having it on in that car is somehow different (can't really explain how though...) and in general if I have music on it's because I'm actually properly listening to it.

It seems to have become a bit of a trend that whenever anyone goes somewhere they *have* to have music on. Far and away the worst culprits are pedestrians, the vast majority who step out in front of me are either listening to music or face down looking at a mobile phone.

Put the f***ing gadget away!

Ridden with music for years . Walkmans were always tricky to change the tapes while riding, especially the cheap ones without auto reverse - remember that exotic feature ! Lifes so much easier with MP3's on shuffle !

Even do races with it, suprising how much more relaxed it feels.Best result I think was a 6th at a round of the BC 100k enduro series. Oh and Merida's fly by with some good tunes !

Bet that'll wind (or rewind)some of you up !!

the article was poorly written showed no balance and it would have been funny if it wasn't sad when the journalist quoted an unknown blogger

Another said that “iPod zombies are a menace. I saw a bus clip one of them the other day in Victoria who was oblivious to anything around him.”

sadly the article seemed to be using the death of a 17yr old girl to develop a rant about cyclists rather than the serious issue that a 17yr old girl lost her life because she failed to judge correctly at a junction

the use of the phrase "studying the possibility of allowing cyclists to [i]shoot[/i] red lights on left turns" confirms the lack of balance is deliberate rather than ignorant - it should say "filter"

the article didn't belong on a news page

incidentally the biggest danger i experience from ipods is pedestrians stepping off the pavement "unexpectedly" (not) on main road thru local shops and lack of understanding from car drivers that i'm riding a metre out because this is the safe thing to do - yes i can hear your engine revving
but no i can't hear the car or truck that cuts me up at 50-60mph on the main roads when i'm out of town

I commute whilst wearing earphones (and without a helmet!) some of the time, with music on quiet (level 8 out of a possible 40). Often I actually hear better, because the earphones cut out the wind noise. In the winter I wear a hat or buff to cover my ears and keep them toasty warm, should hats be banned too?

In the summer early mornings (about 2am), I occasionally go out on the road with my li'l ol' MP3 player. Pitch black, full lights and able to see cars hundreds of yards away .... academic, of course, as I usually see about 2 in 3 hours.

Sometimes have my MP3 off-road as well, when on my own.

I personally find it bad enough if I walk on the street with music on and would never ride on the road with headphones on. But neither would I ever drive with headphones on. I just feel my senses are distracted too much and I wouldn't be able to hear sirens etc.

I accept however that it's down to your own judgement whether listening to loud music through earphones compromises your awareness of your surroundings or not. I certainly can't listen to music (properly listen - slightly different if it's just background music) and concentrate on my surroundings at a sufficient level for me to feel safe on the road!

Yup, long road training rides (3 hours+, solo, quiet country roads) tend to be much more tolerable with a bit of music. I have it low enough that I can still hear cars, but as grievoustim says, I don't actually change what I do if I hear a car - I carry on riding in a straight line and always look behind before pulling out.

+1

I go out training after work (usually) solo twice a week after work, and once again on Saturday for 2.5 - 3.5 hrs. If I wasn't listening to an iPod, I'd go mad.

I am WELL aware of what's going on around me. As far as I can tell, the only time loud music has me at a disadvantage is if some motorist is going to stuff me from behind. And, frankly, if I'm going to get stuffed from behind, there's not a lot I can do about it, iPod or no iPod.

Never listen to music off-road, though.

Good timing - I've just been considering whether or not I should take to wearing headphones on my commute. I've begun to realise that noise is a very poor indicator of what's going on around me (either that or I'm going deaf). Some nice dance music while out training on the road bike would help while the time away too.

I'd bet my bikes that if i do have music on at the volume i normally listen to it then i can still hear more of what's going on around me trhan i can in a car with a radio on.

people need to think more before writing illogical, ill-considered rubbish like this.

ride with music on for about 90% of my on-road rides. (Never really bother with music off-road.) Still alive.

I listen to my music while riding on my own whether it's on the road or not. Most cycling accidents are from drivers who don't pay attention. I always drive in the cycle lanes and last time I was out on the road a car drifted into the cycle lane so I thumped the window to which the bloke went mental at me. How does cycling with headphones differ from driving the car with the tunes blaring?? Depending on the circumstances you soetimes can't hear anything while riding anyway especially if going downhill. Doing 30mph on a bike means that the wind in my ears measn I don't hear much in the way of traffic. How about some of these new eco cars that are quieter than a sowing machine and creep up on you. Surely it comes down to being paying attanetion to your surroundings.

As said previous, its just the same as having your radio on in the car.

I'm not sure it is. People are often fond of saying cars aren't the same as bikes and that goes both ways. In a car you have mirrors, and (on the whole) people aren't treating you the same way that they treat you on your bike. I'm not expressing very well but I don't think it's as straight a comparison as that.

Personally I wouldn't wear earphones on the road (or off road- I've been stuck behind enough oblivious joggers and riders to not want to do it myself) but I'd be wary of coming down too hard on people that do, just because it's shifting responsibilty for sh!t driving to the people on the receiving end of it.

Don't really get the point about deaf cyclists either- it doesn't follow that compromising your senses makes no difference IMO.

. How about some of these new eco cars that are quieter than a sowing machine and creep up on you.

How about them? Are you saying that the fact that some cars are very quiet means that it doesn't matter if you can't hear the ones that aren't?

I'm a moron then. I'm perfectly capable of riding without using my ears, in fact it makes me use my eyes more (which are more reliable than my ears). Roads are boring noisy places, headphones remove than annoyance and there are no situations where earphones will help if you're observing as well as you should be.

As also said above:

Deaf people
Cars with loud music
Cars with headphones
Cars with windows open.

Doesn't make the driver/cyclist less attentive, just means they adapt their senses.

It's just another sly way of attacking cyclists as "shouldn't be on the road".

so people who DONT listen to music never get ran over then??

Surely the lack of a mirror to see what's approaching from behind would have more of a determining effect on the danger a cyclist is in whilst riding than whether or not the cyclist is listening to music.

Unless, of course, the cyclist posesses some kind of bat-like ability to derive spatial awareness from hearing alone.

Thus, everyone cycling without a rear-view mirror is a moron.

Tune in next week for more ill-considered nonsense.

Nicholas Gardiner, the coroner, did the David Kelly inquest. A quick google suggests that he is quite prone to giving a good quote. Far be it from me to suggest that he loves publicity the way sperm whales love giant squid, but...

baldSpot where do you stand on drivers listening to very loud music. Why is it one rule for car drivers and a different rule for other road users. Whilst driving you can chat to people, have music on as loud as you want, talk on a handfree phone, twiddle with the radio/stanav, etc yet you think a cyclist who listens to music is a moron.

I use headphones on my commute but don't turn the music on till I'm off the road. Even then I have it at a volume where I can still hear vehicles. Main reason I don't have the music on when I'm going through traffic is so I can have a chat with other cyclists I meet.

I'd say riding when it's pissing down and blowing a gale is much more distracting than riding with music on. Should we just ride when the weather is fine?

Yet another 'cyclists are all idiots' article and brainless s???? agree without thinking for themselves.

OK lets break this down:

Ears help you identify there is a vehicle definitely present and suggest you use your eyes to be sure.
Eyes help you identify there is a vehicle definitely present.

Ears may trick you by telling you there isn't one present when there is.
Eyes, if used properly by looking over your shoulder when you get to tight spots, won't trick you AND will let you judge distance and speed.

So losing your ears makes you rely on eyes. Eyes are more accurate. Ears add a sense of uncertainty over eyes used alone and correctly.

My solution - use your eyes properly and leave your ears to something else. In cases where you are not expecting to see something but might hear it (stopped at a junction, car approaching from behind too fast/close) - were you going to do anything anyway? If you heard it what would you do in time - very little I suspect?

I think they should ban the wind. Yesterday, it felt like a headwind for the whole 65 miles, and that made hearing the jokes and insults from the riders further back in the group very difficult indeed.

Who do I complain to?

Oh, and I recently ran down a blind man who stepped straight into my path. He was wearing earphones but, and I quote him "I switched my ipod off to cross the road".

See.

Isn't the problem more about the in-ear headphones, that COMPLETELY block the outside world and are becoming standard?

I put tunes on to get up boring climbs, anything to take my mind off the tedium.

Couldn't agree more. The roads are dangerous enough.

In all the years I've been commuting by bike I have always worn headphones. Since back when I used to stick a cassette player in my backpack.
I can say [b]positively and 100%[/b] that any of the near misses I've had would have still happened had I not been wearing headphones.
I am far from a "zombie cyclist" and if you think otherwise you are not only a moron but a know-nothing busybody too!

The most dangerous part of my current commute is filtering into a dual carriageway from a roundabout below, as you come up the sliproad there are potentially 3 lanes of traffic. WTF would I listen out for to improve my safety? The "click-click" of car indicators??

What on earth are you on about COffeking?

[i]The roads are dangerous enough.[/i]

Would it not be better to find a solution where they are less dangerous to vulnerable users in that case?

Why is it one rule for car drivers and a different rule for other road users. Whilst driving you can chat to people, have music on as loud as you want, talk on a handfree phone, twiddle with the radio/stanav, etc yet you think a cyclist who listens to music is a moron.

Aren't you mixing up different things here? Clearly satnavs, using the phone, kids in the back etc. etc. are bad things as they're distractions, but that doesn't have anything to do with how useful your hearing is on a bike compared to in a car.

Just because B and C are just as bad or worse than A and lots of people do them doesn't mean that A is totally fine.

What on earth are you on about COffeking?

Surely I couldn't explain it any more clearly. I dont understand how to simplify that further. But I'll try:

Eyes and ears is no safer than eyes alone, as people tend to rely on ears too much instead of looking and accurately observing.

i couldnt read the whole article, its drivel that i more typically expect to find in the daily mail. I neither know or have any intention to find out more about its author.

i have in the past used an mp3 for offroad training rides, never if i can ride with company though. Nowadays i prefer to hear the quiet or natural noise that i appreciate as a big part of 'getting out there'

i commute daily on the road and probably use my mp3 50% of the time, its perfectly easy to set volume levels on my 'in the ear'phones so that i can hear my tunes and enough background noise.

but some people on bikes behave like twunts. end of.

MrSalmon if it's all to do with hearing and nothing to do with distraction are you suggesting that deaf people shouldn't ride bikes?

What the nodding dog public fail to understand that this is yet another point won in helping them to 'hate' cyclists

I use headphones whilst on road and off road, when i'm commuting and even make phone calls using handsfree whilst on rides.The only time i dont use music is when out with others or the club rides.At the end of the day i have music on about half volume so not blasting out and can instantly pull one of the ear buds out when necessary.

Coming upto junctions i look round in plenty of time to see exactly whats going on around me rather than relying on sound. Having rode motorbikes made me anticipate others actions as having a thick helmet on, race exhaust and wind noise means you cant hear anything at all on them.

Must admit texting is a nightmare though 😉

i can either txt or roll a fag, but both tends to distract me in heavy traffic.

MrSalmon if it's all to do with hearing and nothing to do with distraction are you suggesting that deaf people shouldn't ride bikes?

Why the need to go to absolutes? That's not what I said. It's certainly not all to do with hearing, but IME hearing is useful and personally I wouldn't want to give it up.

That's clearly not the same as saying that people shouldn't be on the roads without their hearing, and the deaf cyclists thing is IMO a rather emotive argument that blurs the point. So, I'd rather be aware of an ICE car coming up behind me than be startled by an electric car I haven't heard coming. That doesn't mean I'd stop riding if electric cars became commonplace.

The satnav/radio/mobiles in cars argument is unrelated in my opinion. Sure those make things dangerous for us as cyclists, and arguably more dangerous than we make things by giving up our hearing, but I don't follow that it doesn't matter what we do as a consequence, which seems to be what some people are saying.

Just to be clear, I'm not coming down particularly hard on people that choose to listen to music, just saying that waving it away by pointing out that drivers are often distracted is a bit spurious.

I tried rolling a ciggie on the bike too but the baccy went in my eyes 😯

Coffeeking I understood your post. I just think it is completely batty! Yes you shouldn't just rely on your ears but how on earth is losing all the spatial awareness you get from hearing a good thing?

This topic suggests that using headphones whilst riding means you are lose the ability to hear traffic. If you take it to extremes, in terms of volume, then yes thats the case but I can certainly listen to music and hear traffic at the same time.

To say everyone who uses headphones whilst riding is a moron is a pretty stupid satement.

[i]So, I'd rather be aware of an ICE car coming up behind me than be startled by an electric car I haven't heard coming. [/i]

How does [i]hearing[/i] a car come up behind you make any difference? There are ALWAYS cars on the road, night and day. Hearing them come up doesn't make the slightest difference to how close they are and you can't judge this until you see them.

I don't but understand why ppl do.

Maybe just ear hooked up so you can still hear things around you like people or cars.

Once a lady pulled outof junction by accident and the cyclist didn't notice till I shouted and did one hell of a curve avoiding her and thanked me for yelling-he would be injured if he didn't have ears free.

Music is great but use the near side ear only is good compromise?

The Times is doing a Mail job and ruining cyclist image as ppl look to blame others again.

It's a pathetic genralisation that 'cycling whilst listening to music' is wrong. End.

How does hearing a car come up behind you make any difference? There are ALWAYS cars on the road, night and day. Hearing them come up doesn't make the slightest difference to how close they are and you can't judge this until you see them.

Clearly it's personal, but I like to know as much about what's going on around me as possible, whether or not it's influenced by me knowing about it. Like I said, each to their own.

I only listen to my iPod when out solo on the road bike (not commuting), in no way do I feel it makes me less safe. I'd probably do it on the MTB if I was out solo at night to but then I'm too scared to do that in the first place :p

All pathetic generalisations are wrong.

Yes you shouldn't just rely on your ears but how on earth is losing all the spatial awareness you get from hearing a good thing?

I dont find that I get any spatial awareness from my ears. And/Or maybe that I've no need for that information. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not be deaf in daily life, but in cycling (and I've been cycle-commuting for nearly 15 years now, 10 of those with personal stereo of some sort) I just don't ever find a situation that would have been better had I only used my ears. Normally any aural observation queues a visual one. I just replace that process and ensure I keep looking where needed.

Let me put it this way. When does having your ears actually HELP when commuting? The only times I can think of are those when looking first (instead of hearing then looking) produces more rapid and accurate reactions. With the wind in your ears and zipping along the only thing I can hear normally is a) a car about 10ft from me or b) a wagon. What information/edge do I get from knowing they're there? I might gain some edge if I heard them start to overtake when a car was coming the other way, but my bike is little over 1m long, if they get caught out while next to me I'm already going to be in visual contact with them whether I heard them approach or not. I might even venture towards saying that people who react to sounds before they see what made them are even mroe of a danger than those who just don't hear them.

cycle commute daily in london with my ipod on for 6 years now
dont think it affects me

can still here traffic noise above my music, look round at every turn and junction and just generally try to keep my wits about me

its just miserable people being miserable and not wanting people to enjoy listening to music or enjoy cycling, it really upsets them to see people having a pleasant commute

the article in question is a prime example of why the times (and all newscorp output) is purile nonsense and should be avoided at all costs

I'm tempted to start my own pro-cycling retort blog to every damn piece the times posts.

[i]Like I said, each to their own[/i]

Now [b]that[/b] makes total sense. And I think should end the thread 🙂

Not really, it's just a statement that no-one can argue with due to it's inconclusive and non-committal nature.

[i]Once a lady pulled outof junction by accident and the cyclist didn't notice till I shouted and did one hell of a curve avoiding her and thanked me for yelling-he would be injured if he didn't have ears free.[/i]

Is that a joke?

Obviously the 'shout' included the direction to swerve and at what angle and speed.

"ok lets break this down", says DJ coffeking 😯 and no your not a moron coffeking, just a little retarded 😆