Overbiked or setup issue?

Possibly. A few years ago when I was looking for a new bike I got a test ride on a sommet and an escarpe. I found the sommet similar to how you describe it and felt it was a big burley bike more suited to bigger/rougher riding while the escarpe felt lighter/nimbler and I was just happier on it and felt it was more suited to my more sedate riding.

This is going from a hardtail to a bike with 170mm rear travel? How much longer is the reach? Is the 26” fork long enough A2C?

You could try running less sag in the rear shock and fork, it'll probably feel a bit more lively then.

Reduce sag, reduce rebound and potentially add compression. These things are quick and free but will make the most difference. After you get it riding more to your preference start playing with cockpit set-up.

This is going from a hardtail to a bike with 170mm rear travel? How much longer is the reach? Is the 26” fork long enough A2C?

The Sommet is 160mm rear travel. Reach is 453mm vs the 400 of the Hornet. Hornet stack was 20mm higher and chainstay shorter by 10mm. It's a Lyrik RC2DH 170mm, 555mm A2C if I remember correctly, which looks about 10mm less than a 170mm 27.5 fork which it's designed for. I guess there's the possibility that everything is just too low on 26" parts! The plan was to go up to 27.5 but I'm worried about sinking more money into it now.

I used to ride a Scott Voltage 170mm each end and don't ever remember it feeling sluggish on the same trails, the Voltage had a very short wheelbase though!

I think it's going to be a combination of moving from a hardtail, not having the bike set up correctly and also it being too much bike for jumping and flow trails.

Geometrygeeks was wrong on the travel! I’d run it with less sag, take volume spacers out too if need be. The higher BB and firmer suspension should liven it up. Hornet’s stack is probably only higher static, not at sag, because it’s a hardtail, and likewise the reach won’t be as short as you think. It’s a pretty high steep frame for a hardtail like that though. Big change to the new bike!

Just run your forks and shock firmer when you’re riding flatter stuff.

Basic suspension setup that I tend to use:

Firm and fast for trail centres, great at hitting trails fast and getting 'pop' off the jumps

Slow and soft for classic xc rides where traction and comfort is a priority.

Somewhere in between for general riding, not great at anything but is generally good enough.

As with everything else, it's a compromise.

Ultimately a long travel, heavy bike with sticky, knobbly tyres will be slow and dull on flatter xc trails when compared with a more xc bike.

I wish suspension had a simple switch that alterted the sag, compression and rebound, so you can easily adjust it to up, down or along.

Before folk chip in about that this already exists, IME, suspension on the fly adjustments only adjust the compression.

You've got some good advice here on how to pep the bike up a bit.

I'd just add that you should take it to some proper hills with rocks and stuff, and see if it feels "right" in that context or not.

But you're probably just overbiked, yeah.

@didnthurt Scott shocks do that.

I used to really like it on my old Genius, then got used to not having it on my bikes since then.

I do still have the 26″ wheels & fork on it for now so I’m wondering how much this is affecting things as it’s designed for 27.5″ – the BB is a bit low at 13″ unsagged.

Sorry, can you clarify... which bike are you running 26" wheels and fork on?

more psi in shock and maybe fork. i run about 20% sag. i did drop this a bit in teh fork though for the alps. rear end felt great.

Strange set up. I tend to find the tyres the main thing that makes something feel less sluggish

As above, some I would say is geometry and a long travel bike, but tyres, suspension set up, wheel weight etc all needs looking at...

I found it fascinating yesterday how many folk were on some monster truck like bikes on what was a relatively smooth and flat trail centre - surely it could be more fun on something shorter and lighter? Each to their own though.

Sorry, can you clarify… which bike are you running 26″ wheels and fork on?

I got one of those Vitus Sommet 27 frames CRC were selling off cheap recently, built up with my old parts for now til I can afford 27.5" stuff . I've previously done this on an older YT Wicked 650b frame with no issues so thought it would be similar, but I guess BBs were a bit higher back then!

I have probably just overbiked for my current riding style and trails - in my head I'm still riding like I did 5 years ago before I took a break, in reality now I'm a lot slower and not currently hitting the bigger stuff like I used to so 160mm each end is probably quite excessive 🙂 I probably "should" be riding a trail hardtail but I do like a bit of squish on the back.

Just as an aside - Steve Peat was running 40psi in his tyres at Steel City DH. Can see why with the nature of the course tbf

I found it fascinating yesterday how many folk were on some monster truck like bikes on what was a relatively smooth and flat trail centre – surely it could be more fun on something shorter and lighter? Each to their own though.

Guilty as charged 🙂 tbh I wanted the FS because I was hoping it would give me the confidence to quicker get back to riding how I used to, last time I had one it really helped. But it feels like I may have gone too far and it's not feeling as fun on my usual trails.

But it feels like I may have gone too far and it’s not feeling as fun on my usual trails.

My eldest has complained of this - his monster 29er X 2.4 sticky rubber, 170mm travel, Enduro sled is so boring on anything that's not seriously steep and/or fast/jumps/big rocks.

“I found it fascinating yesterday how many folk were on some monster truck like bikes on what was a relatively smooth and flat trail centre – surely it could be more fun on something shorter and lighter? Each to their own though.”

Not everyone has multiple bikes. Maybe one day they ride that bike on a flat smooth trail centre, and the next day they ride some steep off-piste gnar.

I’m pretty always on the “wrong” bike if you look at two MTBs logically. But I like them!

I'll give it more of a chance after running a bit less sag, raising the stack a bit etc. If I'm still not happy I'll probably keep an eye out for something like a Ragley Marley 275. Still not sure I'd like a long/slack/low 29er after this as it feels like it will be another step in the wrong direction for me!

Annoyingly I just sold the Hornet frame before coming to this realisation.

Been doing a load of reading on bike sizing etc and found the RAD measurement idea from LeeLikesBikes. Took a measurement of mine and my bike and I'm about 25mm short of the bikes RAD. Also did the stepladder tilt thing and I do have to bend my elbows a bit to get the bars to my hips, if I drop my hands my knuckles are a bit lower than the grips as well.

Based on this I wonder whether I should have gone for the small rather than medium! Thinking of trying a shorter stem to bring the reach in a bit, may just go straight down to 35mm and see how I get on.

I think that the RAD thing is where Lee Likes Bikes jumped the shark.

I’d take it with a massive pinch of salt. My old bike was bigger than RAD, my new one even more so, and each one has been more confidence inspiring than previous.

It kind of makes sense to me the way they explain it though.. and it does fit my previous experience of riding shorter reach long travel bikes that didn't feel like too much bike.

CRC have 35mm Nukeproof stems for £20 at the minute so I might just give it a shot to try.

Yeah, a shorter stem is definitely worth a try. I’ve got a 35mm stem on my bike. Thinking of trying a 40mm though.

“ I think that the RAD thing is where Lee Likes Bikes jumped the shark.”

I think that’s sadly the case. I think Lee’s book is great and he’s clearly a good coach but that RAD thing is way off. I adjusted my old hardtail to fit my RAD number and it made it worse. I reverted to a longer stem and higher bars and it was much better. My next full-sus was bigger and that was better still. My current hardtail is even bigger and it’s epic!

My top tip if it’s not feeling fun is to leave the stem alone and raise the bars as high as possible.

Got round to fitting the 35mm stem tonight. A quick ride down the street hopping off curbs etc and it feels like it may have done the job, amazing what a difference 15mm reach makes. Could just be placebo effect of course but I rode with the 50mm before, and after the swap it does feel easier to get the front end up and move the bike around. Steering does seem twitchier though so not sure if that's a good thing, 40mm maybe the happy medium. Taking it for a proper ride in the week so will be interested to see how it feels on the trails.

First proper ride and the shorter stem definitely feels way better, I have my confidence back for jumps etc on a shorter feeling bike 🙂 did feel a bit sketchy a few times on corners, like I didn't have enough weight over the front. So I'm thinking I probably should have gone for the small frame and with a 50mm stem would have been about right. I also think this because I'm hitting my arse on the saddle a bit - could possibly get a slightly longer dropper so it's completely slammed but not sure that 20-30mm will help as much as a smaller frame might!

Give it a chance with the right size wheel before you make your full judgement.

I came to my (admittedly 29er) 2020 Sommet the same time you did, also from a hard tail with long travel forks. Granted it’s not my first time with such a bike but I found it rode just right, pops and jumps how I want when I want - and that was with basically no suspension setup because my shock pump was leaking so it had “enough and that’ll do” pressure to stop me bottom out, haven’t touched the damping really, just made sure it didn’t ping me off.

but basically from what I can gather in the few times I’ve ridden it is that it’s an ace frame, handles the downhills well, jumps nicely over roots and rocks and as you say, pedals really well (even with me on it…) so get the right wheels on it and you’ll be laughing.

ps, it’s not a very long bike at all, so you can’t even blame that, it’s just longer than your hardtail which if 26” is a few generations older than the Sommet. I had a 2017/8 Primal that I ran 27.5 and 29 at various times and this is every bit as fun as that was, just doesn’t hurt my back so much.