[Closed] orange p7 v cotic soul build

the soul will be lighter, but I would say go for the P7 because I have one and I love it! 🙂

From what I've heard the P7 appears to be made of lead (it makes an Inbred seem light), so it'd be the Soul every time for me.

I tried a P7 a couple of years ago and hated it. The position felt too short and upright (coming from more stretched bikes like Konas and On Ones). Never ridden a Soul though.

ive had three p7`s(all nicked)i loved the last one it was a brilliant ride,i do feel like a change though and with the soul it seems like im getting a better frame and the the forks are better too, so perhaps it ll be the soul....on the other hand i feel guilty about eding my long term relationship with orange!!

What is there to decide, Soul, there its done, build sounds cheap though ?

Shimano deore groupset xt shifters and wheels, Rockshox Recon 85-130mm adjustable forks, FSA bars and stem, Pro seatpost and light weight Madison saddle plus Kenda Nevegal tyres from a demo bike .......

They're about the same money but the Soul is built from 853 and the P7 653. The Soul is therefore a good deal lighter than the P7.

If you want something primarily made of 653 then buy a Cotic BFe and save yourself a good chunk of money.

I wasnt questioning it, just sounded cheap, i built a soul up and it was a heap more than that

Frame £475
Wheels £250 ?
Group: £500
Forks: £200 ?

You are well over £1200 before you think about bars, stem ,seatpost and tyres ?

a bloke in a shop is doing it,hes been really helpful and freindly....i get the impression hes using bits from from bikes hes got hanging around e.t.c that could be why its a good price

I have never tried a soul - always wanted one and was about to click 'buy' on a 2010 soul when I saw a 2009 P7 frame going on ebay with 1 min left for £210!

I have hardly been out on my LTc (which is my dream bike) since building the P7 (about 3 weeks ago). Absolutely love it.

It is worth mentioning that the 2009 frame weighs about 1lb less than the 2010 (according to a mate who works at orange).

[img] [/img]

It now has tubeless wheels/tyres and weighs in at 28lbs

let your eyes decide... sssssooooouuuuulllllll

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Oxnop, thats a nice P7 you have there!

went from p7 to soul. soul rocks.

I went from a FS to a Soul, Soul rocks !

I absolutely love my P7. oxnop, that is a stunning build.

Had my Soul 3 weeks now and loving it.Had a SC Chameleon before that and I'm really enjoying the steel frame.

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Oxnop - are you seriously suggesting you got that shaweeet build for just over £210!

How much did you end up paying?

that p7 build would have cost well over my £1,270 limit but does look beautiful....

Had my Soul 3 weeks now and loving it.Had a SC Chameleon before that and I'm really enjoying the steel frame.

Now that is a very fine looking machine.

Oxnop, thats a nice P7 you have there!

I absolutely love my P7. oxnop, that is a stunning build

Cheers guys 😳

I bought all the parts for the build (apart from frame/saddle/pedals) through FS & WTD ads on STW

The frame was a £210 sniper bid on ebay and the total (if i include my new tubeless wheels -which are different to above) would be around £1700 which sounds a lot but if you add up the spec then I reckon it would be around £2.8k new?

Had a SC Chameleon before that and I'm really enjoying the steel frame.

would defo agree - my previous HT was a 2009 Chameleon which i just didnt get on with.

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Here's my rather more well used Soul.

[img] [/img]
On my second one now as I sold the first and regretted it

[img] [/img]ive owned a p7 and a soul. Both quite different bikes really, found the P7 a bit big standover wise but it was a cracking bike to ride. I still have my soul and that feels a tighter snappier frame if that makes sense although ive moved up to man sized wheels now so probly gonna sell my soul as well

Oh, if i must !!

[img] [/img]

crikey,im really digging this bike porn,much more of a turn on than readers wives,cheers folks and thanks for the pics.ringo ,can i ask in what way were the bikes different?i`d have thought both being steel they would have been pretty similar in feel.does the soul absorb the bumps and knocks as solidly as the p7?

Your choice of fork suggests you'd be happy with a slightly less 'long travel' frame and if so, why not consider a Pipedream Sirius? 853 maintubes and over £100 cheaper than either Orange or Cotic with up to 130mm fork travel.

However, if you're planning to run derailleurs only, then it's probably the Cotic, as sliding dropout frames will introduce unnecessary complexity.

Despite this and 'though I'm sure the Orange rides well the quality of the Pipedream is streets ahead of a 2010 P7 frame I had, briefly!

The P7 was noticeably stiffer at the back the cotic almost feels like theres a bit of springyness at the back which is not a bad thing in my book. If anythng the ride on the orange was a little harsh but it was a really fun bike it virtually ploughed through everything

The P7's a nice riding frame but it's still a mystery how they manage to make such a heavy frame out of nice tubes without it being stronger than it is. If it had an On One sticker it'd cost £125 and still no bugger'd buy it because it's heavier than a 456. Nice paint though. Best example of The Orange Effect there is.

The Sirius looked good til they discovered they had to CEN test it, then they basically lost the plot. Shame really.

I've never ridden one so perhaps I'm missing the point, but I'm struggling to see the point of the P7. It's very, very heavy and fairly expensive. Why wouldn't you buy the lighter and cheaper BFE or the much lighter Soul?

Well, plot lost or otherwise I've got a 2010 Pipedream which I bought for the sliding dropouts to run an Alfine hub (perhaps Rohloff) and it's spot on. Very nicely made and it built up like a dream.

It rides very well despite the lump at the back. Couldn't ask for more really.

Anyway, back to slagging off P7s......!

I've never ridden one so perhaps I'm missing the point, but I'm struggling to see the point of the P7. It's very, very heavy and fairly expensive. Why wouldn't you buy the lighter and cheaper BFE or the much lighter Soul?

Agreed - I would never pay £470 for a steel HT plus i'm sure the soul feels nice and springy

Also I wouldn't trust a soul for the kind of riding I do - I want a HT to handle exactly what my FS would and I don't think id want to do many 3 or 4ft drops on a soul. Plus as i've found; you can build a P7 fairly light- mines just on 28lbs and that is with downhill UST tyres.

I've heard tale of the P7 being 6.3lbs! Aparently, Cy at Cotic says the CEN compliant Soul is about 4.2-3 lbs, so you're looking at a 2 lb weight difference is frame alone.

P7 17" is 6.6lb.
i moved a load of kit off an inbred frame onto a P7, including an alfine. The inbred ran an air rev, the P7 runs a coil pike. i never weighed the inbred but the P7 weighs 33lb, but it feels balanced. sometimes when i'm riding it i feel like it's a FS. it just 'deals'. she's no lightweight but inspires like no other bike i've ridden.
compare the soul to the inbred or the pipedream, but compare the P7 to a 456 ( which i never really got on with ) or a BFe ( which i've never ridden ), if you want to compare apples to apples.

33lbs is slightly heavier than my S-Works Enduro with Pikes, coil shock and Eskars!

My P7 weighs in at 30.6 lbs with XT chainset, SLX mech, Mavic 321 rims with Ringle hubs and Marz Bomber AM 22. which given that the frame weighs 6.5 lbs isn't bad going IMO and it really doesn't matter about weight. Its all about HOW IT RIDES!!

I'm not disputing that the P7 isn't good to ride but just think that the design's badly conceived (ie. the rack mounts are a token gesture) and the build quality very average for the money.

i could live without the seattube bottle bosses for sure. aside from that i think it's a really nice frame. i bought my 2010 off here anyway.

33lbs is slightly heavier than my S-Works Enduro with Pikes, coil shock and Eskars!

My soul, 27lb on the nose with mixture of XT and Hope inc hoops. Reba U-turn fork until some 120mm XMM turn up. Would shed a bit more if it wasnt running 2.25 advantages and braided hoses.

33lb? Christ, I had a patriot with coil fork and shock that was lighter than that! ❓

p7 anyday!! i had a soul and broke the ****in thing!! my p7 has took loads of abuse, it's not always about weight guys!!! but then again it depends what sort of trails you ride! saying that,the soul was quite good on the road..... 😆

"but then again it depends what sort of trails you ride!"

From your videos why the holy **** would you think a Soul's the right tool? 😆 BFe was made specifically for the mad you know (and is cheaper and lighter than the P7)

I must admit that even tho the ride is fantasic. the cable routing is very poor.

If you're looking at a P7, then you should probably be comparing it to the BFe in terms of function/price/weight rather than the Soul.

I had a Soul but never had a moment of epiphany with it. Nice enough frame but I was left a bit nonplussed by it; unlike others I've never missed it. I'm currently building up a P7 and while it is heavy-ish the few 'round the garden tests' I've done have impressed me that the weight is well-placed: it feels planted and 'eager'.

both nice, unless you are going to do loony stuff or the fit isn't right I'd go for a soul - lighter, nice finish, good customer service - but I'm biased as I've got one!

2007 P7.
2008 Soul.
Much prefer P7. Dusty Soul stays in garage.
That's all.

Never ridden a Soul, or any Cotic, so can't offer a balanced view. However, they do look very attractive.

I'm on my second P7, the latter one looking very like the initial pic on page 1 of this thread.

I must admit to not giving a hoot about weight.
It's designed to deal with the kind of riding I'll ever want to do, even with my technical know-not-how, and it looks the effin' business.

If it weren't for that damn Hope II hub on the rear, it'd be STEALTH bike, and I'd be Ninja supreme!

Hope you make the right choice

happy trails