[Closed] Orange Four

The whole point of a shorter travel bike is that it should be lighter.

WAT? not really. Still needs a shock, bearings, and a frame. The shock stroke is reduced, thats about it. Shorter travel bikes TEND to be lighter, but only cause they are built lighter as they tend to be XC whippet bikes, not Huck-to-flat ers.

Its the same reason you dont get 8" trail bikes, and 12" bikes never really took off. Technological advancement and the current position of bikes means we are past more-is-better. There is an optimum for a job.

a 4"travel alpine would make a wicked little bruiser for clattering down UK DH tracks (but probably not winning), Jumping, and general trail riding without wanting to be wallowing around on a 160mm chassis, but still being able to give it a battering.
I VERY much doubt it is any lighter, just more "pert" to ride.

Also, FWIW 127mm is 5". Equally, my Five29 has 140mm rear travel. I Think they've got a bit confused over at Orange over which end of the ruler to hold, but the concept of a short travel bruiser is a solid one.

To all those saying that a shorter travel bike shouldn't be lighter....

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

The new Segment sort of holds my interest but I'll need the details. If it's 1x only I'll need another bike so that could either throw a spanner or be a good thing! The 4? Nah, it'd be a 5 or 29er.

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

They may not, but they wont buy one unless it is. Every smaller brand that has tried this category has pretty much failed. Its only the big brands that seem able to maintain the mid travel market.

Not %100 on the Four, I don't see any real point to it ,when the Segment is already there or there abouts , Would still try one but then again its not a Five

[quote=STATO ]

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

Like the Four, a lot.

If there's no significant weight difference or cost difference then your average buyer is always going to go for the longer travel bike.

Would you expect a 110/20mm bike to weigh the same or more as a 140/50mm bike and would you buy one? Examples please.

I'm on a Kona Process 111 at the moment. It weighs more than my 160mm 650b enduro weapon. It's much more responsive though.

I accept this is the exception rather than the rule. And I'm not really sure what we're debating. I just thought I'd chip in.

Not %100 on the Four, I don't see any real point to it ,when the Segment is already there or there abouts

It doesn't make a lot of practical sense for those who've tried short-travel nu-skool 29ers, but it probably makes more commercial sense for the unenlightened masses.

😉

Details now on the main page.

It’s as you’d expect, a 4 inch 120mm travel bike (with a 130mm fork) designed as a shorter travel hoon machine rather than anything*shudder* XC. There’s been a lot of thought put into the design, and there are more than a few very nice touches.

The swingarm is composed of a ridiculous number of carefully bent aluminium sheets (there is’n’t a tube on the whole bike apart from the seat tube) all layered yp generate maximum strength and stiffness. The frame is 1lb lighter than the Orange Five, with a substantial saving on the swingarm, which resembles (in looks at least) the one on the Orange Alpine.

Tidy dropouts resemble the ones on the Segment, and the whole thing is boosted for stiffness, which is comparable to the stiffness of the Five.

You want numbers? Okay, here are numbers. 67 degree head angle, 74 degree effective seat angle, 424mm chainstays, and the large has a 458mm reach. Not bad.

When I had my five I just wanted it to have 160m up front (65.5degree) and 150 out back with slightly lighter weight. Basically an alpine on a major diet. Everyone has their preferences though, can't please everyone

I imagine it'll be similar to the Alpine 5 where people are interested, demo one and are really impressed, then buy a 5.

@chakaping

The whole 130mm up front makes me think its designed purely for the trail riders, very much like Whytes T130,

Id like to know where the F@ck is the Orange fattie...pretty much a crush with mahosive tyres!

Four is on their [url= https://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/four-rs ]website[/url] now

Hoon machine with a 67 head angle!

No thanks

There’s been a lot of thought put into the design

I'm struggling to see where lol

would rather have a transition scout

[img] [/img]

What happened to the Orange 3?

I think I get the Four. Having switched from a Five (which is too much bike for my mincing) to a Smuggler I'm sold on the advantages of shorter travel. More responsive, more efficient and more fun on the sort of trails I ride, but still with enough travel to cope with any drop that I'd ever have the nerve to ride. Marrying that with bigger wheels makes a lot of sense for more open and rougher trails, but a smaller wheeled version should turn quicker and that would be fun too.

I'm less convinced by the boost Segment. The BB on the current model is 330mm and it feels great. Put B+ wheels in though and it will drop to something like 323mm, which is just too low. Unless they've raised the BB on the new model, in which case they've compromised a great feeling bike just to make it compatible with some new trend 🙁

I just had a play with the options on a 4 pro, added a reverb and a few wee things, comes out about £3100. Will it be 50% more fun than my 2015 Anthem SX which was a good bit under £2000 ?

I had an 08 5 and loved it, but was waay too much bike for me

The BB on the current model is 330mm and it feels great. Put B+ wheels in though and it will drop to something like 323mm, which is just too low.

I'm not arguing because it's totally down to personal preference, but I'd prefer the 323mm-high BB myself.

🙂

I fancy a 27.5+ segment...

Bring back the Orange Blood, but make sure it's still ahead of its game this time round

Or the ST4

Genuinely great to see Orange innovating.

That [i]was[/i] ironic, yeah?

Surely this is the new ST4?

Hmm, the more I look the more I want!
Short travel - yep, don't mind a bit less travel for a bit more 'pop' besides, I remember when 120mm was long travel! 🙄
Lighter - demoed a five last month and it was a lump! Loved the way it rode, confident in the corners and ripping downhill but took some motivating up the climbs.
'New' geo - my current fs feels a bit dated, steep and sketchy both up and down in comparison to newer bikes I've tried.

I think I get it but, as already stated, I suspect it will not appeal to a wider audience. 5010/Bronson, Remedy/Fuel ex, even Heckler/Bantam.
I thought the Bantam would have been the ideal uk trial bike, but it didn't last.

I built a 5 up to be 27lbs, ok so it was in 2007 and had the lighter wheel standard, but most were 30lbs then.

Their website sells it very well, I hope it proves popular! Personally I'd want a slacker head angle but that's easily sorted with a Works headset (they have -1, -1.5 and -2 that'll fit). Chainstays are 6mm shorter and BB 13mm lower than the Five so it should be a lot of fun on bermy jumpy trails.

Er Whyte T130 rs anyone.... better spec less money and not read a bad review yet.

Don't underestimate the benefits of less travel and steeper angles. Quicker steering, might help with those big fangled wheels.

Er, yes...

Unless you want single pivot/different spec/filing cabinet/frame only in which case the t130 rs is no good.

Looks like short travel bikes might be this year's must have,there seems to be more made of the spesh camber than the stumpy now. Maybe my ,once trail bike of the year, anthem x29 will be back in fashion.

New four looks good,pricey,but good.

shorter travel trail bike

http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/spitfire/

sorted and cheaper

To me this is probably the bike I should have bought over the 5..
I bought the 5 as my anthem wasn't up to the abuse id give it on local trails..or doing stupid jumps..I'd often check the frame for cracks after some jumps.

The 5 is more than enough bike for my local trails and doesn't get ridden to its limits..

I reckon the 4 with 130 mm on the front would be spot on...

After reading some earlier comments re 330mm v 323mm bb height..surely 7mm can't be noticed in the handling? Also why all the hate for Orange? Never owned one but always thought the simplicity really makes sense for uk conditions.

You probably would notice a 7mm difference in BB height. Whether you'd prefer it though is a different matter. Each to their own, but that 323mm is static and is pretty low.

You could just run a longer fork of course, but that will slacken the angles a bit.

I bought the 5 as my anthem wasn't up to the abuse id give it on local trails..or doing stupid jumps..I'd often check the frame for cracks after some jumps.
The 5 is more than enough bike for my local trails and doesn't get ridden to its limits..

Don't underestimate the benefits of less travel and steeper angles. Quicker steering, might help with those big fangled wheels.

Well considering my bike for local riding was a 160/140mm Spitfire (about 65 deg HA with sag) and I've gone to a Zero AM hardtail with 130mm forks but a 64.3 deg static head angle (about 66 deg with sag) I know I like really slack bikes, however much travel they have!

shorter travel trail bike

http://www.bansheebikes.com/bikes/spitfire/

sorted and cheaper

Awesome bike but it sits more between the Five and the Alpine in attitude (and geometry and travel).

After reading some earlier comments re 330mm v 323mm bb height..surely 7mm can't be noticed in the handling?

7mm is quite a lot in BB height terms. The aforementioned Spitfire has adjustable geometry giving you +/-6mm BB height and the three positions are quite obviously different in character.

mikewsmith - Member
I bought the 5 as my anthem wasn't up to the abuse id give it on local trails..or doing stupid jumps..I'd often check the frame for cracks after some jumps.
The 5 is more than enough bike for my local trails and doesn't get ridden to its limits..

[b]Did you ever find any?[/b]

The only crack I ever found on my anthem was the crack up my ass 😀

There's a fair few anthems that cracked where the top tube meets the seat post tube..

My 5 was more bike than I needed, Anthem SX suits me well, I guess the 4 would suit me too, but as I said in earlier post, its half as much money again compared to an Anthem, for similar spec....

I like it. Would complement my Alpine 160 better than a Five as less overlap. Maybe with a Works headset to slacken out the head angle a degree or 2.

Zero Cool... my thoughts exactly. The 2016 Five shifted almost a bit too close to the Alpine. I have a 26 inch 2014 Alpine and a 2nd hand 2013 Five. A quick check of the old v new geo charts and my old Five is uncannily similar to the new Four (with a touch extra rear bounce). If you can afford two bikes they'll compliment each other brilliantly. If you can only have one to do it all get the Five but wait for Boost hubs to be added since it'll add some rear tyre clearance.

Choice is good and they all have their place.

Yeah and I can see it being bought by a few people (probably southerners) who've convinced themselves they might as well have a 160mm enduro bike - but then realised it's not exactly sprightly.

Looks like a good choice for my old local trails in Herts or the Surrey Hills.

So many people obssesed by weight.

The truth is, many people buy "bigger" bikes because they are strong enough, and have fun geometry, not because they really want/need the extra travel (especially rear travel).

Shorter travel bikes are often over looked BECAUSE they are light, and have head down XC numbers.

So, shorter travel bikes, built to take abuse and last, and with proper geometry, have their place, for sure.

Personally… I still love stiff, short rear travel, long forked bikes. And there aren't many. Because of the weightweenies.

Personally… I still love stiff, short rear travel, long forked bikes. And there aren't many. Because of the weightweenies.