Well it shouldn't.
THey just work well. Bearings don't fall out after 2 weeks, I couldn't give a flying **** what it looks like so long as it rides well.
And they do. I tried a Turner 5-Splat next to an Orange and the Turner was awful. Just goes to show, dunnit? Different folks have different taste. Doesn't mean one is wrong.
aye different folks different tastes...
i will change mi heckler one day,but for what i dunno,but it wont be another heckler or a 5.
I've had one for 18 months , never noticed brake jack, didn't on my Heckler,its a good bike that does most things well, taper head tube and maxle back end make for a really stiff frame, that tracks well, Heckler was very Flexi in comparison, mine is around 31-32lb a bit on the heavy side should be 28lb if you believe all the weight claims , all my bikes have been around 32lb Heckler , Nomad and now the Orange 5.
It really shines on the down hill slacker and lower works well, but this shows on the climbs , its a steady plod gets there in the end, although it does do the odd unexpected , 4 of my mates hit a technical climb/ obstacle and all failed and they are awesome riders compared to me and I had a go and the old 5 made it clean, I nearly fell off with shock 😀 , A Heckler with taper head tube , 67 deg head angle and maxle rear would look prettier ,
The fuglyness of the 5 grows on you and doesn't matter really, its better looking than me 😯
I'm one of the people who needs a 17" 5 with a 23" TT damn funny shaped body. 😀
scotchegg, if bearings fell out of any bike after 2 weeks it would have nothing to do with the the fact it wasn't a 5. less daily mail headlines please
Blower I changed my Heckler for a Nomad , Nomads rock awesome bikes quickest bike I've ridden, but over the top for most trails and my ability,
Orange 5 is how the Heckler should have evolved into, 😀
I reckon its the advertising budget spent in UK mags that makes the orange 5 'so special'. I hear its not rated highly outside the UK mags. Its an old design now and seems over priced to me. Still, I've never riden one! if you like it and have loads of cash, then get it. I'd test ride though after reading some of these posts.
Knowing what you're capable of whilst riding is the key here, if we're talking performance? Is it a looker? All in the eye of the beholder obviously.
Can you ride hard enough to need 5 inches?
O5 will handle most things in the UK but can you? Buy buy buy if you can.
The suspension design is simple & works, period. Low maintenance too. Buy an Orange & watch them all turn green. 😀
Nothing makes the Five special beyond repeated discussions like this. It's just a bike.
You can dissect axle paths, pivot placements, shock rates or whatever else on the internet all day, or you can just give one a ride and buy it if you like it, or don't if you don't.
Form your own considered opinion by borrowing or test riding one; not by listening to the bizarrely extreme views that shape the average internet forum discussion. This being a thread on Orange Fives means it's probably mere posts away from becoming a flame war focussed initially on BMW's Paralever, then switching briefly to CO2 emissions, then racism and the misappropriation of the Union Flag by football hooligans, before settling finally and firmly on Thatcher and someone getting a two day ban for circumventing the swear filter.
For what it's worth, two of my mates' mates' uncle's dogwalker's boss' brother's mates have Orange Fives. One rode straight out of the showroom and instantly won every single bicycle race in the world ever and is now crowned King of All Biking, and the other one was simply unloading his from the car when it brake jacked him into a low orbit, his every limb torn spectacularly and irreparably asunder.
Jeffus. you sure your not getting them mixed up the wrong way round with rear end stiffness?
nomad too much indeed agree.
the 5 has the right amount of travel,for riding n messing here.
(Mr MC posting)
as Ive said on other threads I sold a Nomad for an Alpine (bigger version of the 5). I DID get frustrated with the idea of having to shell out 90 quid and spend a couple of hours replacing the bearings every year, dosnt instill faith in the bike. I assume the VPP2 on the Tracer is a radical improvement from the original VPP which climbed like a dog in the granny ring.
Not really a balanced comparison to rate a 5 with an Fox RP and then comment on how a CCDB improved a Tracer. My alpine came with a CCDB so it may ride far better than a standard shocked Orange-it has the adjustment to tune out any suspension quirks. VPP bikes were known for needing lots of midstroke support and blowing thru their mid travel, I eventually managed to tune this out with the fitted (and much derided for just this problem) DHX5 Air, so choice of shock and set up has a large impact on sus performance.
The 5 is special in that there are no longer many true single pivot designs around these days (for good reason some may argue!).
However, i've just re-discovered the joys of true single pivots having just built up a 2011 Heckler. I really regretted getting rid of my 2007 Orange 5 (with the steeper HA) and after a few linkage bikes i came across the Heckler again via a customer at work and decided to get one. The Heckler is pretty much identical in geometry to that 2007 Orange 5, which i thought was a fantastic allrounder.
I bought a 2009 Orange 5 after that first one and hated it! The new slacker HA just didn't suit me at all and only in the Alps did it start to make sense....so not really relevant to riding at home then!
True single pivots are fantastic fun, not perfect by any means but no suspension design is. You either like the simplicity and just get on and ride or you don't.
EDIT: Jeffus....think you're confused. I've been riding a Nicolai Helius for last few months, by far the stiffest bike i have ever ridden. In comparison the Heckler isn't that far of in lateral stiffness terms. The Heckler is certainly stiffer than either 5 i owned.
TBF, i had a blast around a car park on one, and they felt quite good under the pedals, and soaked up the bumps well-ish, but (Perhaps the same for all air shocks) you either set the rear shock up for hard hits so not to bottom out all the time, or to soak up the small hits, but will bottom lots.
And who gives a rats arse about maintenance. All bikes need a fettle every now and then, and know what, fettling with bikes is good fun! Seconded to riding (And sex!).
EDIT: Jeffus....think you're confused. I've been riding a Nicolai Helius for last few months, by far the stiffest bike i have ever ridden. In comparison the Heckler isn't that far of in lateral stiffness terms. The Heckler is certainly stiffer than either 5 i owned.
yep.
just wish the Heckler for me had the 5's head angle.
😆For what it's worth, two of my mates' mates' uncle's dogwalker's boss' brother's mates have Orange Fives. One rode straight out of the showroom and instantly won every single bicycle race in the world ever and is now crowned King of All Biking, and the other one was simply unloading his from the car when it brake jacked him into a low orbit, his every limb torn spectacularly and irreparably asunder.
Jackthedog - A perfect synopsis of how utterly facile STW generally is, pretty much. I thank you, sir.. 8)
Offset shock bushes would give the Heckler slacker angles. I may try that for my 3 week Alps road trip this summer! As they are though i feel they're perfect for the riding i do in this country. It was the slacker angles that took away the 5's great all-round abilities IMO.
my 'expert' opinion on the five is,,,,
i havnt been lucky enough to own a nicholi, santa cruise, intense etcetcetc BUT,,,,
have owned a number of FS bikes over the years since 2004, i change my frame every 2 years (unless they are shoite) try to buy frame only as i spec my bikes the way i feel is best for my locals and how i ride (heavy and plough like,,,,,FWIW i have a minor disability)
BUT, through choice, i keep coming back to the five as its just so versatile.
im lucky/stupid enough to own several different sets of forks/shocks/componants etc (proper fettler me 😀 ) and can honestly say that the 5 frame can cover most of my terrain with out issues and with the right spec i have entered xc races (never won but thats not the point is it) and have tackled fort bill DH with a set of 36s and a coil on and i did 'OK' time wise (not 100% but think rowen sorrel did the mega on a five and did really well)
i love the 5 frame as its just so easy to clean, service and seems to have an auto pilot button when you point it DH,,,, dont really care about uphill speed as if its to steep im not to posh to push. thing i like about the five frame is it seems to let me get away with silly mistakes when choosing lines as it does seems to have that auto pilot function. the brake jack (yes it does jack) has never been an issue for me as i brake before hitting anything that may disrupt my line (isnt that what your supposed to do :?)
feel i must add that have i have just taken my new 2011 out today (2nd ride but bigger terrain, first one was down to a quick 'just built' XC exuberance) and found it climbed better than my 2008 (might be down to first ride excitment/adrenalin but it did) i also have been lucky enough to bang a CCBD on it and,,, even though it did, i havnt really found P-BOB an issue,,,,, infact i beat a pals commencal (sp?) 6 inch thingy and another pals marin wolfridge to the top and it also seemed to climb better than my winter bike 2009 456, this may not be a claim to fame but i found it a bonus.
i love my new five frame, the maxle has made a big difference on the ice cream run (for those ITK) and the slacker HA is always something i wanted when i had a 140mm fork plugged in to my 2008.
over priced, over hyped and everybodys got one,,,,, BUT,who cares,,,,, it suits my locals better than any other frame ive tried.
ONLY issue i have with them is they seem to loose the chain more than other frames ive had BUT a stinger soon sorts that out.
jealous unbelievers say it looks ugly, i think its simplisity is handsome.
MADE IN ENGLAND.
If it was that good a bike, they'd be as popular in the US and Europe as they are here. Take the "Made in England" bit away and sales would plummet. Think Rover.
I tried a few different frames before buying a five. To be honest I never liked the look of them, I had a commencal before which was great until it cracked.
I purchased my 2010 five frame at the end of 2009 and since owning I have not looked at anything else. I ride just about everything on it, it's pretty confidence inspiring and basically it's fun to ride!
The made in Britain thing did appeal to me as did the one set of bearings, it just works and i enjoy riding it! 😀
Sorry guys but my 2007 Heckler was a Flexi old thing I changed to a Hope Bolt in hub and that helped, I've a maxle back end on my 5 and that is super stiff, but I am fat 😀 Nomad back end was also solid, I'm a real Santa Cruz fan and went the 5 route to see what all the fuss was about.
I did like my Heckler it was a very good bike at giving confidence just like a 5, she was very pretty.
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FWIW, i take an annual lake gada bike holiday with a local/guide i met who owns a hotel (mates rates 😉 ),,,, cracking bloke who has made comment recently on the FACT that a lot more fives have been seen in the area (think german, spanish and italian riders) since the patriot has bit the dust.
druidh..
US is a different market.....
and in europe (for example france,germany) oranges are extremly expensive...prices are much higher than in england !!
Pedal bob and brake jack are handled by the design of the linkages, so you don't rely on having the setup exactly perfect for it to work well. Horst link seems to be this way too
Yep, no questions that the 5 is not as plush as some bikes but so what? Hardtails are much less plush and people still enjoy those 🙂
I still think most of you don't know what brake jack is. It's NOT the feeling of the rear wheel smacking into things as you brake.
But yes the US and Europe are very different markets and types of riding.
Which is why there are so few US and European bikes sold over here.molgrips - Member
But yes the US and Europe are very different markets and types of riding.
They are different markets, doesn't mean there's no overlap!
If it was that good a bike, they'd be as popular in the US and Europe as they are here.
Absolutely, nothing to do with dealer networks or exchange rates or anything like that 🙄
GGGGGGRRRRRR, must add,
the way i look at it, the 5 was designed and made etcetc 30 miles away from my house and so for my local terrain (the reason i bought my first 5).
the way i see it, it has been designed with my local english northern terrain with the option for a bit of alpine holiday (or is that what the alpine is designedetc for ?), NOT bone dry american terrain (spits on floor) and although not strictly a european alpine frame it can easily be built for so.
cheers orange for ticking all my boxes.
podge - I have run Spesh FSR's that have needed new bearings every 3 months. That's what happens when you ride them.
Changed the bearings on my 5 a couple of weeks back £7 and 20 minutes excellent, 😀
Never had a problem with brake jack ( And yes, coming from a motor cross background i know what rake jack is )Also never had a porblem with pedal bob either. I run my RP23 BV wide open for everything except long fire road climbs which is when i flick the propedal on.
Wot a load of cack "a five dont climb well" i beat most folks on long climbs on my five. I suggest fitness may be the reason for not climbing fast & not the bike.
Is the 5 the best bike?? probably not, but it works and works well. Its tough overall build, simple pivot maintance make it ideal as a solid all round UK bike.
Living in Wales and riding at least 3 times a week on my MTB (avg 40-50miles a week on the MTB) i want a bike built to take the hits and last me years. The five ticks all the boxes for me, and yes being British built and handmade also has added value to me. Also along with the way Orange allow you to build the five up to how you want it with upgrades etc when ordering new adds to a bit of individuality you dont get with most manufactors.
Oh yeah, 5s do climb well. Perhaps not in 32lb FR guise but mine's 27lbs and has no problems. I quite like the pedal feedback when climbing, but I can see how some wouldn't.
Different strokes and all that. I own a 2010 Five, I demo'd a lot of others including Blur LT, 5-Spot, 575. It came down to the Blur LT and the Five, the Five was a better fit and made in the UK so that's what I bought.
I love it to pieces, but no doubt if i'd bought the Blur I'd say the same about that. As someone else mentioned it has a bit of the hooligan about it that makes it so enjoyable to ride. It doesn't go uphill as quick as some/most, but then neither do I.
Whatever you do don't buy a bike without demo'ing it (and others), just look at the amount of conflicting opinions on here.
+1 molgrips - I prefer to get feedback through the bike. The more complicated multi-pivot bikes I demo'd I didn't really like as they felt too plush (for me).
Scotchegg, keep up the back hand insults, it really adds to your argument.
depth junkie, hand made is a selling point for you is it? well that should narrow it down a bit, what with pretty much every frame ever being by hand.
and oreetmon, I'm from even closer to orange than you, location has little if anything to do with it. and it rains on America, oddly enough.
My 5 is about 31.5lb I must be building with the wrong gear,
Talas 150 RL 32 fork taper steerer.
Hope Hoops Stans Flows with tubless conversion,
2.25 Advantage, 2,25 Ardent rear,
Hope Tech 4 brakes , floating rotors , Ti bolts
CK taper head set and CK BB
XTR 970 cranks running 34tooth + e-13 srs running 1 x 10
XT mid cage , xt shifter 11-36 XT cassette and xt chain
Float RP23 shock
KS I900 seatpost with remote, SDG saddle Ti rails
Hope Clamp
V12 pedals Ti axles
Sunline V1 bar and 50mm stem
even have carbon spacers under my stem.
it was weighed at my local bike shop
[url= http://dirt.mpora.com/dirt-100/orange-5-se.html ]These[/url] [url= http://dirt.mpora.com/zfeatured-box/dirt-100-2010-orange.html ]guys[/url] seem to [url= http://dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-100-2011-orange-pro.html ]really like it[/url]
Jeffus, everyone else will tell you, attention to detail saves weight.
KSi900 seatpost weighs well over half a pound more than a fixed post for a start.
Hope tech 4 brakes aren't that light, Sunline V1 bar won't be that light compared to carbon. V12 pedals even with ti axles not light compared to most spds? Do you have lockon grips? If so they'll weight more. Etc etc.
Oh, and most peoples "calibrated" bathroom scales magically read "27lbs" 😉
[b]I reckon its the advertising budget spent in UK mags that makes the orange 5 'so special'. I hear its not rated highly outside the UK mags. Its an old design now and seems over priced to me.[/b]
this ^^
MBR magazine test staff were all given a free Orange 5 for the year- make your own conclusions...
personally? never ridden one off-road, ridden plenty in the car park outside our shop after customers had them through our workshops with ongoing rear brake / hub / shock DU issues
feels kinda wobbly in the back end (hence the problems my customers had..) and the brake stiffening is very noticeable if you have spent time on quality FSR / VPP bikes
Perhaps you have just failed to fix them all 😉
wobbly in the back 😀
agree on the DU issues though, go through a set every 6mnths on average 😕
Changed my DU bush the other day along with the swing arm bearings, 18 months riding. 3-4 rides a week all weathers, 😀
mtmtomo I will check out my build thought it was ok but the scales don't lie 😀
+1 molgrips - I prefer to get feedback through the bike.
He's not talking about the same kind of feedback that you are. Molgrips is talking about the effect of the chain tugging at your feet/pedals as length of the chain grows and shrinks as the suspension compresses and rebounds.
The kind of feedback you're referencing here is about information coming up through the wheels and into your contact points and the design of a suspension system doesn't really change that, although it will to some degree.
Wow, plenty of opinion to digest there! All conflicting too. 🙂 When I initially posted I was thinking that I had missed something and that the 5 was the Evil Sov. or Cove Stiffee of FS bikes(i.e on paper pretty ordinary, but is somehow more than the sum of its parts). More I read less convinced I am. The whole simplicity thing? Does it matter how many pivots a bike has if its well designed and quality bearings or bushes used? Prob not.
My current fs has done 3000 miles in 12 mths and still as tight as day 1. Would be disappointed with anything that did not give me at least this level of reliability. Am I unwittingly spoiled with what I have?
Was also looking at a new Mountain Cycle Zen II and could not get over the negative response here and on other forums to the fugly looks as imo had a similar appearance and design philosophy to the five (if not superior).
A good long spin on the bike tomorrow should help me decide. 🙂
Keep the opinions coming, some good reading here!
What makes the Five so special is the fact that it simply does [i]exactly[/i] what you ask of it. Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't try to do anything for you or compensate for the terrain below you. You make inputs and it responds immediately and predictably.
The rest is up to you! It's why people like Rowan Sorrell are so devastatingly quick on them!
And you can spin it's weak points however you want.
You can argue the chain growth on a Five is like "Brain" technology, only smarter - it literally only firms the shock up when you're pedalling - firm under power, open and active when you're freewheeling.
Inactive under braking - true, true, but it does squat which means BB gets lower, angles slacker and it actually sets you up for the corner better. Also, Steve Peat seemed ot get round it by just staying off the brakes.
Poor square edge hit performance - hitting a square edge is still slow even if the bike deals with it well.
But for some balance...
It used to be bench-mark stiff but the swingarm is feeling a little flexy these days.
I also agree that the 07/08 geo was the sweet spot - the newer slacker ones are loosing their versatility IMO. What's made the Five so great in the past is the fact that it was as an effective long travel xc bike (Paul Murrin even won Mountain Mayhem on a Five I believe) as it was a gravity sledge. I feel the latest ones have gone too far to the gravity end.
I love my 2010 Five. It's completely dependable and far more capable than I am, up and downhill. The perfect "one bike to do it all". And I think it looks great!
Admittedly, it's the first FS I've owned, but I test rode equivalent Trek, Speccy etc and they felt a bit more clinical, with less of a hooligan streak.
As others have said, test ride it against some others and if you like it, buy it!
