[Closed] Orange bikes, love or hate?

No, don't answer that one, it was rhetorical.

😆

i like the bikes, but hate the planks who buy them and then think theyre the best thing since sliced bread. notice i didnt say everyone whos bought one is a plank.

I've recently bought my first Orange. A 2011 P7 hardtail.
Firstly it was better spec than current 2012 model (though same can be said for nearly every bike out there)
The main reason i bought it though is that like car's you always buy what best suits your circumstances.
I wanted a steel frame, i've trashed too many alloy one's to bother buying another.
I only ride red routes/single track and can ride well enough to not need the benefit of full sus.
I'm 6'3" and 18 stone but can hustle when i want to so i need something that feels planted thats not going to give up at the first hurdle with my weight bearing down on it.
And lastly there's a nice warm feeling to know that it's a british bike.
I do agree with some of the posts on here about seeing loads out and about all polished and kept sparkling. Trust me, mine isn't one of them! 😀

One thing I will say, in contrast to davidtaylforth's portrayal of the average Five rider as a bit underskilled and generally a bit of a punter, by contrast your average STW bike at least your Orange Punter (and any buyer of a mainstream brand such as Spesh, Yeti, Giant etc.) displays some (albeit basic) knowledge of handling, performance and having a good time, which your average STW rider mincing around the South Downs on something like this clearly has no idea whatsoever about.

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(Two can play at this troll game!)

I've never thought about love or hate with any bike brand. I do love to make a comment if I see 3 or 4 riders in a group passing all on Orange Five's though!

oooh nice bike munrobiker!

mojo5pro - Member
This thread is another STW classic! .. .pointless but entertaining

Agreed. I remember when we used to go and just ride with other people just to ride - no matter what they rode, regardless of their ability or what car they have. It was nice just to spend time with people doing something we enjoyed whether I knew them or not. How times change.

Agreed. I remember when we used to go and just ride with other people just to ride - no matter what they rode, regardless of their ability or what car they have. It was nice just to spend time with people doing something we enjoyed whether I knew them or not. How times change.

Times haven't changed, you are just on a forum full of overweight, frustrated, middle aged, middle class bell ends, who think they are better than everyone else.

skywalker - Member

Agreed. I remember when we used to go and just ride with other people just to ride - no matter what they rode, regardless of their ability or what car they have. It was nice just to spend time with people doing something we enjoyed whether I knew them or not. How times change.

Times haven't changed, you are just on a forum full of overweight, frustrated, middle aged, middle class bell ends, who think they are better than everyone else.

So judging by this thread I'd be right in thinking that these said people ride a 5 and drive an Audi? 😉

Possibly, I hate Audi drivers 😉

If we were all after VFM then we'd all drive around in Kia's with a 7 year warranty and ride a bike from a manufacturer who offers a 'limited lifetime warranty' (which when you read the small print isn't worth FA).

Has anyone considered the cost of wages between China and the UK?

Google suggests a UK welder can expect to earn £10p/h. A chinese welder can expect to earn £1.25 p/h

And people wonder why an Orange bike is more expensive to make over their far eastern competitors.

nathaneddy - Member

I like my R8

Either way you're a ****, apparently...

😉

Has anyone considered the cost of wages between China and the UK?

Google suggests a UK welder can expect to earn £10p/h. A chinese welder can expect to earn £1.25 p/h

And people wonder why an Orange bike is more expensive to make over their far eastern competitors.

Good point and one I touched upon earlier in this thread, it seems there are a number of people on hear, (I was going to say a large portion but think "Louder" people is a better description) who seem quite happy to own or for others to own a bike made in china from a large "manufacture" that is possibly (normally carbon frames it seems) produced by Chinese workers who are very controlled in the way they live. I am going on information from a few years ago (so willing to be corrected and not saying it's the same for all situations), but a huge portion of chinese workers (factory workers, if your above that "level" your ok)have to work 7 days a week, around 13 hours a day, have to sleep in singe sex dorms, which are provided by the company but are little better than slums in most cases, some cases worse. Not allowed to sleep with their husband/wife/partner while "housed" by the company. Worked till they can't do the job any more at the speed required, at which point they will be let go (no pention, redundancy) and have to leave the city unless they have another job to go to. Most have to send the small amount of money back home so their children/brothers/sisters can go to school in the hope they might have a chance to break out of the circle they live in.

Is that ok? Is that not something more worth hating than a UK made bike frame? A company that actually makes something in this country, a sadly rare thing these days.

I am not wanting to have ago at people that buy products made in china, I know I have some, I try to avoid it but it's hard to do, for many reasons. But most of the "reasons" to hate, primarily a five, are just stupid and irrational, not all, but most.

Only know 2 five owners neither are middle class but one drives an audi. Both are way better riders than l will ever be. Yes they get stick but its all good. I don 't get fives,for me there are far better lighter choices,for them its orange fives only,think they were dropped on their heads at birh. Love the orange owner baiting,stops people picking on my Giant

I don't have an "Audi" (whatever that is).

Got a Brompton, mind... 8)

Burn the witch!

[IMG] [/IMG]

Most of the 5 riders I've come across have been decent riders who love their riding.

The 5 seems to get people more worked up both for and against than any other bike I can think of. Not sure why really.

Pretty sure it's not a class thing as I'd have said the Trek Fuel/Remedy are the middle class default purchase of choice.

Times haven't changed, you are just on a forum full of overweight, frustrated, middle aged, middle class bell ends, who think they are better than everyone else.

Brilliant - spot on!!!

Has anyone considered the cost of wages between China and the UK?
Google suggests a UK welder can expect to earn £10p/h. A chinese welder can expect to earn £1.25 p/h

Thing is, if it’s taking them more than 4 hours to weld up a frame, they’re doing it wrong.

Tell you what, I’m feeling generous, give ‘em a day.

8 hours x 9 = £72.

Treble it for taxes and hidden costs and extras and things.

£216.

Orange 5's are not expensive because they're made in britain, they're expensive because people will pay for them.

Good luck to them, they're doing well.

Thing is, if it’s taking them more than 4 hours to weld up a frame, they’re doing it wrong.

Tell you what, I’m feeling generous, give ‘em a day.

8 hours x 9 = £72.

Treble it for taxes and costs and things.

£216.

hmmmm

it's an estimate of the cost difference for making a frame in britain vs taiwan.

although, you'd need a very skilled welder, £10/hr wouldn't do it, you'd need to pay more like £20.

but i suspect the taiwanese welders earn slightly more than £1.25/hour.

i'm not sure that bikes are made in taiwan because it's cheap, i suspect bikes are made in taiwan because they're very good at it.

it's an illustration/estimate of the cost difference for making a frame in britain vs taiwan/china.

simplified to the point of absurdity - making it a pointless illustration

however

Orange 5's are not expensive because they're made in britain, they're expensive because people will pay for them

is correct

If I had to try and put my finger on it i think many peoples objection to the stereotypical Five owner is probably based on the Balls they read in the various comics the Five is a bike that the likes of MBR and MBUK 'journalists' consistently seem to get a Fruity Lob on for; as these Mags are primarily targeted at the [I]"Audi driving, IT Managing, South East dwelling, more money than sense" ****s[/I] it's quite understandable that peolpe have made the connection between Product 'A' and Target audience for crappy Magazine 'B' and decided that owners of 'A' Must Read 'B' ergo they are more than likely to be a complete 'C'...

Obviously the rule to apply is; Never let actual Facts get in the way of a good Stereotyping/hate campaign...

out of interest Where do we stand on ownership of a 224? or a new style Patiot is there a corelation between the Owners ****ery and the suspension Travel and newness of their Orange? ie:

2012; 224 = Total Cock wand.
2011; Patriot = a complete Tit.
2009: five = common or garden IT ****ist.
2002: Sub 3 = Not so bad, could stand them for an hour or two
1996: Rigid clockwork = Alright bloke, I'd probably buy Him a pint
Owner of the original prototype P7 = "Here, have my left kidney even if you don't need it, just in case..."

Is that the sort of scale we're working on?

I'm not going to read all the posts in this thread, [b]obviously[/b] ...

... but I like Orange bikes

... I also dispair of this forum sometimes

I quite like bikes that are orange, as for Orange bikes; I like that they're made here but haven't ridden one. Judging someone on the brand of their bike seems a bit.... meh to me. Not the prettiest bikes, but I quite like the industrial look.

As above I can't be fannied to read 5 pages of STW hair splitting.

Are you aware that an average chinese/taiwanese aluminium hardtail frame has a more expensive paint/decal job than the cost of manufacturing the bare frame itself? 'tis true.

I cannot disagree that the far east are indeed very good at manufacturing frames. They've had years and years of practice making millions. I cannot however, agree that Orange are expensive because people will pay whatever price for them. I'm sure they are trying to be competitively priced as possible but they're never going to manufacture as many bikes as the big guns, therefore they're not going to be equally priced.

Out of interest, If Orange Fives were made in Taiwan,China, Cambodia, Vietnam or whatever, and they were let's say 20/30% cheaper, would things be different or would people still have their issues/opinions?

Cookeaa, stop it, I'm crying with laughter! 😀

Thing is, if it’s taking them more than 4 hours to weld up a frame, they’re doing it wrong.

Tell you what, I’m feeling generous, give ‘em a day.

8 hours x 9 = £72.

Treble it for taxes and hidden costs and extras and things.

£216.

Orange 5's are not expensive because they're made in britain, they're expensive because people will pay for them.

Good luck to them, they're doing well.

So when you treble it for the "hidden costs and extras and things" I take it your including the R & D, Marketing, Wages - not just the welders but Accts department, marketing team etc then there is also general building costs such as electricity, building rent, insurance etc plus let's not forget they're a business so they're actually trying to make a profit and then after all of that the bike shop has to make a profit it as well because they also have the same overheads as Orange minus the R & D and I would assume and this all comes to your "generous" £216? 🙄

SC moved production to the FE (early nomads were built in the US), the move had no effect on the price of the bike and very little impact on its desirability.

Like most products manufacturing costs have little impact on the list price which is driven by marketing. There is a waiting list for 5s so their pricing is obviously bang on.

My brand new Alpine 160 frame with CCDB cost me a smidge over a grand. Pretty good value compared to the competition 8)

teadrinker - Member

So when you treble it for the "hidden costs and extras and things" I take it your including the etc...

R & D? - Orange?

but anyway, sort of, yes.

i wasn't trying estimate the cost of making a frame in britain, but trying to estimate the [i]difference[/i] in costs between a 'made in britain' frame, and a 'made somewhere with labour costs £9/hr cheaper' frame.

on the rough guess that: for every worker you have welding, you'll have 2 workers doing HR, cleaning, admin, etc...

prahran - Member

Out of interest, If Orange Fives were made in Taiwan,China, Cambodia, Vietnam or whatever, and they were let's say 20/30% cheaper, would things be different or would people still have their issues/opinions?

I cant speak for everyone, but for me, if they were cheaper, I wouldn't think they were expensive.

This thread's gone from bad to worse! Now you are slagging off the 5 Spot which just happens to be the other bike I own along with a Five!

I'm not some pretentious **** though who just buys status symbols. I bought the Five second-hand for a very good price when it was less than a year old and the 5 Spot I also bought second-hand as a bare frame again for a price it would have been rude not to.

I bought the 5 Spot as a bike to build up for my grandson and he absolutely loves it, as I do the Five. I think all of the generalisations on here are completely pointless but do agree the thread has been amusing...

Good work cookeaa, you tell those imaginary riders! They're so full of themselves!

Well my Hemlock's got about 50 bearings, but they don't need replaced often, and when they do it takes an hour and about £20.

Actually, on another note. Some frames seem to be right sods for this, really could never be arsed with the ones on my Meta. The Five has the two with little allen key split jobbies, really quick job I'm assuming, certainly looks less intimidating/risky.

Seems like a very small plus to nit pick on, easier has to be better than harder and requiring a variety of weird sized drifts? 🙂

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sooooo-hemlock-owners-any-tips-to-shift-these-bearings ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/sooooo-hemlock-owners-any-tips-to-shift-these-bearings[/url]

I love mine, I just wish it was a wee bit easier to change the wee b*****d bearings! Grr, aargh.

😆

LOL @ 10ph for a welder of that calibre LoL

What a thread!
There are hardly any Oranges around here. It must be a regional thing as has been pointed out.
I've had a Sub Zero and a 224 and now have a Blood.
I'll see myself out.

1,350 for a Five frame.

That's quite a good price considering other companies charge a small fortune for single pivot frames.

nah, thought better of it... I can't be bothered

Well played Toasty- as it turned out, what made it so difficult was a bit of crap advice I'd been given, doing it this time was a different story. Live and learn eh.

The main pivot's easier to swap than on a Five btw 😉

Erm Cookeaa. Where does that put me?! 😀

What orange need to do is have someone high up in design or marketing on this forum answering questions/posts.
This would cut down on the negativity and there would be loads who would then jump on the leave them alone bandwagon.
I'm sure I've seen it working before!

A friend of mine owns an Orange P7. He's always wanted an Orange since he was a boy. He finally has his dream bike and in two years he's ridden it three times. They're just the sort of bike people lust over.

I've never ridden one myself but would like to try some out. I think the 5, Patriot and is it Alpine are really nice looking bikes. Those sharp straight lines look nice compared to a lot of these funny looking hydroformed jobbies.

Like the britishness.
Don't like the aesthetics of the FS bikes much.
Don't give a hoot about who else rides one or that they (probably) drive a diesel Audi.
I would buy one if I was in the market and it was the right tool for the job (also applies to Audi)
Well done Orange for apparently succeeding in manufacturing in.the UK
Not sure how you can hate a bike company anyhow. I can understand being disappointed with one

I've just balls'd it up but, wheheyyy 224 post's!!! 😆