[Closed] Orange 5 inefficient climbing bike?

any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out, which defeats the object really.

get a propedal fox and all will be fine, will stop it bobbing but let it move for traction, worth speaking to orange for what they'd recommend. I run a rp2 on my single pivot and climbs fine AFAICT

Ride more, get fitter. It will climb better then 😉

RichPenny - I agree more riding has fixed my 2010 five climbing.

Aye, reliant on a decent platform shock, an RP23 would likely see you right, but it may be more sensible to flog the frame and buy a new one frankly!

this is a "real" mountain bike and likes to be ridden hard so obviously the geometrys made to suit, so its not the fastest uphill, but point it downwards and you wont find a better trail bike, this is the latest five im talking about as the earlier models were a bit more climber freindly, if the climbing really bothers you thou get a scott spark or sumet.

[i]this is the latest five im talking about as the earlier models were a bit more climber freindly[/i]

So the new ones are worse climbers?

Ride more, get fitter. It will climb better then

Yeah, wife and I have both got '09 and '10 Fives with 'Boost Valve' RP23 shocks and compared to the my Pace 405 (that I've just got rid of) and particularly my new Giant Anthem X, the Fives feel more sluggish on climbs ('tho the Giant weighs at least 2.5 lbs less than the lighter of our Fives - and it's much more of a XC biased machine).

IMO, the new 'boost valve' RP23's are excellent, the choice of the 3 ProPedal settings really come in handy - and I very rarely run without PP on. The PP threshold is un-noticeable when you start really hitting stuff - I've had full travel out of the shock in the firmest setting and not really noticed that its giving up full travel (if ya know what I mean?!).

For this year, Orange have tweaked the boost valve tune and the '10 bike climbs slightly better and the shock is more controlled in the mid-stroke - the bike has a perkier feel than the '09 shock tune (with the same sage setting).

So I guess you could try an RP23 with the latest tune - guessing it's gonna be cheaper than a new bike :wink:.

er..apologies if you already know, but it might also be worth trying running your existing shock with a bit less sag. Our local Orange dealer recommended 20% for more pedally rides and up to 40% for mucking about type stuff. I normally run about 30% sag, but when I tried 20% on the '10 bike it reet perked it up on the climbs.

Good luck!

yes definitly, but like i said its a trail bike and by far the best out there, if you want a good climber get a xc bike.

More of a plodder up the hills but a fox rp23 would definately be a good upgrade for your five, the newer ones are slacker so def won't be better climbers than yours if you get a decent platform shock.
I have an 03 sub 5 with 08 swinger 3 way and an 07 five with rp23 and the 2 shocks are worlds apart in performance up and down.

My 04 Orange5 climbs great. No bob with the original 3way swinger or with a 4way coil swinger since the 3way died. Hadn't twigged that the geometry changed much over the years.

stevede's plan sounds a good 'un - I think the earlier bikes def have better geometry for climbing than the latest ones. The new 'slackers' are insanely good fun on descents though 😯
Pedalling action on the new 'uns is fine, it's just that the steering can get a bit floppy on really steep climbs unless you really keep your weight on the bars - swing & roundabouts I s'pose?

this is a "real" mountain bike and likes to be ridden hard so obviously the geometrys made to suit, so its not the fastest uphill, but point it downwards and you wont find a better trail bike,

Surely a "real" mountain bike would be good on the climbs, too?

Righto, glad its not just something up with mine then, I will just accept that it is the right bike for certain rides and maybe see about shock upgrades in the future

I will stick to my rigid SS if I want to go uphill fast

I've had two Orange 5's: a 2007 and a 2009. Both climbed well but i always used the Propedal in its maximum setting to help prop the bike up and keep the angles steeper.

Sounds like you need better technique and stronger legs perhaps......

Shaggmiester....so only 'XC' bikes are good climbers hey?? Not sure how you worked that one out.

EDIT: It will feel sluggish compared to your hardtail. My handjob climbs superbly, feels far quicker than any full-sus i've owned.

[i]need better technique [/i]

What would be better technique? serious question

I go from being 1st/2nd/3rd to the top of hills on my hard tail to next to last on the 5 unless its rocky/technical then I'm often the only one to ride the whole climb (in my little riding group)

also depends on the fork, plus technique (and fitness)

lol i agree with penny too ! (ride more-get fittter)....nice i like that !
i have an orange five pro 2009.... i do alot of climbing....mines fine ,ok ive heard that the lappierres are better climbers but for an all round xc bike the five is the way forward...

Better technique might be not using the granny ring (i rarely used the granny rings on mine as it pedalled horribly), dropping your elbows abit and moving further forward on the saddle to counter-act the relatively slack angles??

Depends on the build of the bike as well; too many variables......

Orange 5 to SS hardtail is a pretty big difference though.

oops yep 'nickegg' that just reminded me.... wen i climb, ive learnt to drop my elbows (it actually helps ALOT when climbing ! (GOOD ADVICE ) i forgot to mention it... (its top secret actually)...lol

Hmmm do sometimes find a "sweet spot" after moving seatpost up and down, maybe seat height is a bit wrong

Yes understand that fully rigid SS is a big change thats why I have one as can feel the difference between that and my hardtail but my 5 seems [i]so[/i] much more inefficient

I find my '10 Five climbs very well, I do leave PP in for climbs though. Climbs better than my old '07 Stumpy FSR, '07 Enduro FSR and almost as well as my old '02 Stumpy FSR.

No dramas!

....i have a Handjob and a Zesty. I love riding one then the other as they're both great at different things, also just depends on my mood too sometimes.

Both are similar build wise, XT drivetrain, Fox forks etc......

they are brillant climbers just pedal and spin.I don`t notice any hugh difference in climbing.I always think it is down to fitness and your climbing style. Two styles spinning which i like or grinding big gears which i dont 😥

I was definitely a grinder....i found the suspension became 'over-active' (i think!) when pedalling in the granny ring. It was best in the middle ring IME.

These sorts of single pivots don't seem to pedal at all well in the granny ring.

So, basically if you are really fit you can pedal any bike up a hill.

What about the average-rider? 😉

hora, push like usual........ 😉

Basically, if you set up the suspension correctly it'll pedal and climb quite well.
If it's set too firm and too fast it'll climb poorly.

So, basically if you are really fit you can pedal any bike up a hill.
Eh no Patriots do not like being pointed uphill.

any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out,

No probs climbing with my five, rarely use the pro pedal, just drop the travel on my forks and get going never noticed it bob around, bit of effort rewarded hugely on the way down!

I'm really looking forward to having a go on a 5 tomorrow. Liked them for ages but it's really for a mate, my knolly is just too good.
I'll post an absolutely neutral POV tomorrow.
I admire orange and hope I like it.

Depends which version of the patriot you've got, how you set the head angle, and if you've got a clue how to set up suspension.
Then Patriots go uphill quite well. Even with the FR build.

nixon_fiend - Member
any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out, which defeats the object really.

Have you actually ever ridden a single pivot, or is that just an 'internet fact'?

My Rush climbs as well as any other full-sus I've ever ridden.

"Shaggmiester....so only 'XC' bikes are good climbers hey?? Not sure how you worked that one out."
dick ed, sorry nickegg, its quite simple really without going into all the bullshit talk that you seem to like doing! i have a p7 that goes quicker uphill than my 5, and my 5 goes quicker uphill than my patriot!!!

If anyone was to look at the axle-path of any bike up to 150mm travel (which aint far, really!), they'd realise that a curved (single pivot) path is not a million miles different from a straight axle path at the chain-stay lengths used.

I was always scathing of single pivots after 7 yrs of riding FSRs, however there isn't a great deal in it. Lots of it is marketing BS.

In answer to the original question Yes.

shaggmiester - Member
"Shaggmiester....so only 'XC' bikes are good climbers hey?? Not sure how you worked that one out."
dick ed, sorry nickegg, its quite simple really without going into all the bullshit talk that you seem to like doing! i have a p7 that goes quicker uphill than my 5, and my 5 goes quicker uphill than my patriot!!!

But I'm assuming that you'd only use the P7 and 5 for gnarly towpaths, and the Patriot for Dalby, so how would you know if the 5 goes uphill quicker or not?

BTW do you wear a full face helmet for the towpaths?

But basing an argument purely on axle path is irrelevant when comparing multi links with single pivots. Because as the IC changes, it affects the damping requirements, due to the differing leverage ratios at different parts of the stroke. So it doesn't matter so much where the axle path goes, just how the spring rate and damper manage the progression of the IC through it's arc.
I agree that keeping it simple is the key, and the single pivot is the easiest way to manage these facets of suspension design. And it's been refined in some bikes to the point of near perfection as far as overall performance.
The Orange 5 is the epitome of this progression in suspension design IMO.

any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out, which defeats the object really.

What on earth do you mean?

I thought the Swinger 3 had SPV on it to stop the bobbing.
Have you put air in the SPV chamber?
Also try putting a few more PSI into the main shock
bring the saddle forward around 10mm.
Other than that get the shock serviced or buy a second hand RP23
and get it TFTuned to your bike and wheight when it needs servicing.

bring the saddle forward around 10mm ? how do you know were he has it it now ?
I had a 03 Sub 5 and it climbed really well and i had the basic Rockshok Sid shock on it, the only thing that could be a little off putting was the amount of feed back through the pedals on technical climbs, the feel for traction made up for that though.
Almost bought another last year but got a Whyte E120 ( you'll not like this ) as it rides Better and the warranty is amazing .

"But I'm assuming that you'd only use the P7 and 5 for gnarly towpaths, and the Patriot for Dalby, so how would you know if the 5 goes uphill quicker or not?

BTW do you wear a full face helmet for the towpaths? "
soz idle jon i was just trying to take the piss out of people like you. 😉

Well done Shaggmiester.......You've resorted to rudeness instead of making an adult response.

I asked a simple guestion and that's the response i get?

It is this very reason i get so fed-up with people like you.....i give my response in regards to a bike i owned and my experiences....what is about 5's hey???????

erm, I rode an orange five up a few very steep climbs, both on and off road (with fox pro pedal)and had no issues! are you guys sat facing the correct direction?

shagmeister falls off his bikes too often to know if they are good at climbing....or not. 😉

I have A Sub-5 with pikes and although it climbs fine in a straight line, it absolutely refuses to go around the tight switchbacked corners so beloved of trail centres. I guess I'm running too much travel up front and screwing up the geometry. (But it does descend like an absoulte demon)

The 5 with a lockout? Good climbing potential.
The Five - not as good (but not awful by any means).

Head angle slacker on the 'Five' than on the '5'.

The best 5 out there is a 5 Spot. 8)

the sub 5 is designed around a 100mm fork with max 120mm so i'm not surprised it doesn't climb well with pikes! I've got 100mm rebas on mine which feel spot on.

the sub 5 is designed around a 100mm fork with max 120mm so i'm not surprised it doesn't climb well with pikes! I've got 100mm rebas on mine which feel spot on.

sorry nickegg, all i was trying to say was i'v owned most fives since the sub5 and im not saying you can't climb on them, i find them easy to climb on, but the geometrys changed, h/a a lot slacker over the years and so it is harder to climb on than previous models, but at the end of the day, its a trail bike so has to be made for rougher riding, and if climbings your number 1 thing, then get a shorter travel bike with geometry to suit such as a xc bike, gollygosh cant believe im getting sucked into all this, just sat at home feeling pissed as i cant ride mine for at least another 6 weeks! dont mean to take it out on anyone, oh yeah cheers ton, but why are'nt you out riding? 😉

you guys that are running 5's and the hand job , what size 5 u got and what size handjob ? I've got a 18" orange but not sure what size handjob ? cheers

bin the echo-box and get a trance X 😉

IdleJon - Member

[b]any single-pivot bike is a crap climber unless you lock it out, which defeats the object really.[/b]

Have you actually ever ridden a single pivot, or is that just an 'internet fact'?

My Rush climbs as well as any other full-sus I've ever ridden.

Then you need to ride more full-sus's 😉

I have owned a 2008 rush and it was frankly crap at climbing. There is a reason why most manufacturers have moved away from SP designs, they are simply too prone to bobbing all over the place. Ride a modern marin or whyte design (a company now sworn away from SP) and notice the actual ability to tackle technical climbs .. whilst sat down .. with the suspension still working! If you lock/pro-pedal a shock then you are simply stopping the design 'working' and you'll just slow yourself down as the rear wheel stutters and smacks into roots and rocks that the suspension should be dealing with.

How many professional XC riders do you see rocking a SP bike? hmmm. SP translates to fun, hooligan bikes - like Orange produces. Nowt wrong with that but if you want genuine versatility look at something like a Trek EX or Whyte e120.

I have worked in bike retail for many years and test ridden many many bikes, but these are simply my subjective thoughts and experiences.

You must be right - all those SP Santa Cruz etc are not selling at all 🙄

How many professional XC riders do you see rocking a SP bike? hmmm. SP translates to fun, hooligan bikes - like Orange produces. Nowt wrong with that but if you want genuine versatility look at something like a Trek EX or Whyte e120.

But isn't the EX a single pivot, all be it with a linkage to drive the shock? The axle path is still an arc around the main pivot. Just being a smart arse, I don't necessarily disagree with your comments.

nixon-fiend, I worked in bike retail and warranty for many years as well -it means nothing other than the ability to demo plenty of bikes which I did as well - it certainly doesn't mean that you know what you're talking about.

If you can't climb efficiently on a single pivot then I'd suggest you learn how to pedal in circles rather than mash away at the pedals like a 6 year old.

Bringing up pro XC riders is pointless as they ride the bikes they are given.

Ride a modern marin or whyte design (a company now sworn away from SP) and notice the actual ability to tackle technical climbs .. whilst sat down .. with the suspension still working!

Are you saying that on a single pivot the suspension doesn't function when climbing sat down?

I'll fully accept that there are better climbing bikes out there than a single pivot, but you really are talking about small differences. As I said above, learn how to ride properly and suddenly a lot of that bobbing disappears...

The manitou Swinger with the SPV chamber was a brilliant shock! It's made for fire road climbs! Just put a bit more air in it (the SPV valve) and it should be absolutely bob free. They're not that hard to service yourself either. I think a seal pack is about £20 from CRC.

Tyres? Bikes like the five tend to have fatter, stickier tyres. Why not try the tyres from your other bike, then compare the difference. Pro-pedal/lockout and adjustable forks also help. How a bike 'feels' has just as much to do with setup; it's not just the frame geometry or suspension design.

My abiding memory of demoing a 5 is how much hard work it was to pedal compared with a Giant and a GT. Whoever was riding it in our group of three, was some way at the back.

IdleJon - Member

If you can't climb efficiently on a single pivot then I'd suggest you learn how to pedal in circles rather than mash away at the pedals like a 6 year old.

For the benefits of discussion I was offering my thoughts and experiences on many of the bikes I've demo'ed and owned. There's simply no reason to get snotty or cast crude aspersions on the the skills of someone you don't know.

Obviously, sprinting out of the saddle uphill is not a great idea on a SP bike, but sometimes is called for to attack a steep slope or gain an advantage in a race. But even sat down, on the rush for example, you sit right into the travel and having the saddle bob up and down.. constantly changing the length & angle of your pedal stroke is a bit rubbish. Other bikes keep the saddle position much more isolated from the workings of the rear shock .. so you feel much more 'supported' and your legs can work better!

The rush is a lot of fun, great bike for carving corners with a low centre of gravity but sh*te on proper rocky techy climbs. IME

[i]constantly changing the length & angle of your pedal stroke is a bit rubbish[/i]

How does it change the length of your pedal stroke if you're sat down?

Good point 😆

Oh dear. "Where's my credibility gone?"

you can't compare the five to the rush! they're two totally differant bikes, the rush is bound to climb better, its a xc bike/ marathon bike and marins and treks are pussy bikes aswell! 😉

Get back to your towpath shaggy! 😆

ha! would the rush be able to cope with the rough terrain of a towpath? 😉

You've got me bang to rights, shaggy. The Rush, being a normal single pivot can barely cope with a medium sized kerb. God knows how a 5 with its immense increase in travel and weight can get up ANY hill.

Keep it quiet though,ok? 😉

marins are pussy bikes aswell!

average marin rider:
[img] [/img]

yeaaah, ladies, they love the marin rider 😉

ha! like it olly, exactly what im talking about, thats defo the average marin rider! bring it on chocolate boys!!! 🙂

I used to ride a Marin and now ride an Orange. If I shave the beard can I keep the socks and sandals? 😯

Bit of a hijack (but as a break from the squabbling on this thread), If anyone fancies trying an rp23 on their 5, I've got one that will fit and has the appropriate tune on the classifieds this eve...

I've got an Alpine which is pretty similar to a five I suppose. It doesn't climb brilliantly like a lightweight hard tail, but I'm sure it's not much harder work than my '07 stumpy fsr that I sold to finance it.

I've read some sh!te on this site,this thread being a prime example. A riding pal rides a 5.....I wish it was a poor climber.

Must be why they're so unpopular, get bad reviews etc. 🙄

I don't know why anyone would find a five hard to climb on, unless they were getting on a five and expecting it to climb like some kind of XC whippett spider bike, if you want a bike to climb on then you need a litespeed sewanee!

Must be why they're so unpopular, get bad reviews etc.

[s][b][i]What mountain bikes trail bike of the year 2010[/i][/b] isn't it?[/s]
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