Bit of a slow work day today. So...
I have upgraded my cheap alu hardtail to the point where the only original items are the frame and the headset. Obvious next step: new frame.
Requirements:
-Light enough to blast 30 mile XC routes as fast as my fitness will allow
-Strong enough to handle rough terrain, e.g. fast rooty downhill with repeated 1ft steps
-Maybe even strong enough to handle small jumps - would like to learn to be more comfortable with a little time in the air, but not full on DJ or anything
-Cheap
-Sexy
To give an idea, bike spec that will be fitted is:
685mm wide bars
SLX brakes 180/160
Mavic XM719 Rims / Kenda 2.1" Tyres
RS Tora Coil U-Turn 85-130mm
I know it's probably asking a bit much, but it's good to get an idea of whats possible. The only thing that immediately leapt to mind was a Stiffee - light and bombproof. Only problem is that they're quite pricey. Advice/Abuse welcome. Do I even need a stronger than average frame?
Have a look at a Marin Rocky Ridge, sounds spot on for what you're doing and you should be able to pick up a cheap frame second hand.
Dialled Prince Albert?
Santa Cruz Chameleon my do it all bike, tis perfect for everything. My bike build theosophy is:
Be as light as possible, be able to survive a uplift day, and be comfortable enough to ride a marathon on.
Build: Chameleon, Pikes, 819, Hope, XTR, XT, Thompson
Pic (ignore mud guards they were needed under the circumstances):
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Light AND Strong ?
I'm not superfit but I can still easily do 30 miles of hilly terrain on my steel frame so I'd say go for steel over ally
I suspect a Stiffee would be overkill, I know it is for me - but then again, I love it anyway. Don't think I'd have bought one full price though. Does it have to be Alu? What about an Inbred / 456? I think that's what I'd be looking at if I had to buy a new hardtail with a sensible budget.
Orange P7
PA,Soul,456.
2nd Chameleon, that's what I'd get in your instance.
steel framed, 100-140mm travel.
most bike should be able to deal with 1ft drops. if not, the problem lies with the rider/riding style.
Sounds like pretty much any frame that will take a 130mm fork, but still will ride all day
On-one inbred
(On-one 456) - on the heavy side
Pipedream Sirrus
Ragley mmmbop/blue pig - not out until late june
Kinesis Maxlight XC<120
Dialled Bikes Prince Albert
Orange P7
Cove Handjob
Cotic Soul
(Cove Stiffee) - quite stiff?
(Santa Cruz Chameleon) - quite stiff?
Must be loads more
P7 - I built up a cheap 2nd hand 05 (i think) frame with some not so cheap bits and it is awesome.
Perfect fit for your forks
Commencal combi?
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on-one Scandal with 120/130mm fork
I have the same dilemma, i'm hoping one of the ragleys will be the answer.
Lots of food for thought there. I'm in no rush, so I am prepared to go second hand. Does anyone here get 'airtime' on their hardtails - is it safe to do so or just asking for trouble? Couple of Chameleon reccommendations there - they look nice but I had heard they are incredibly stiff, is that true?
Orange P7 all the way.
Having read the May issue of Singletrack's and the Budget Makeover article I’m now considering the Santa Cruz Chameleon. But I do have a test ride on a Ragley coming up soon so think I’ll try get a ride on a Chameleon as well.
Have a go on one and see for your self its the best way.
The Stiffee is extremely stiff too. There's a clue in the name 🙂
Does the Chameleon change colour then too? 😆
I love my On-One. You could buy a new one and get it sprayed whatever way you like and still have change from £250
Does the Chameleon change colour then too?
That's a pont - why don't they paint it with ink that changes with the temperature like those Global Hypercolour t-shirts back in the early 90s?
Global HyperCruz!
Go for one of these and then you can SS it when you get bored.
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456
I'd say a chameleon myself but it is a very stiff bike and will screw your back over long rides. Not hugely light neither. You'll never snap it though and it is a hugely fun thing to rag about the place.
I've got an expensive handjob and a chameleon and the chameleon gets way more riding done on it.
Does anyone here get 'airtime' on their hardtails - is it safe to do so or just asking for trouble?
Ha!
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As someone says above, it does depend very much how smooth a rider you are. I've broken spokes and even smashed the bearings in my rear hub doing fairly little drops like the one above, so I'd go with strong.
One other thing about alu frames is that the walls of the tubing are generally thicker than steel ones. So they are (generalising wildly here) more resistant to dents, and a steel frame that's designed to survive the sort of front-on impacts you get in dirt jumping or DH will be very overbuilt and probably heavier than an alu equivalent - although it varies and there are some waaay overbuilt alu frames out there too.
The angles and lengths are really important in a frame as well as the contruction, you may want something fairly short so it's easier to pick the front up for drop-offs.
I think I have some work to do on smoothness. Currently learning to bunnyhop consistently enough to clear obstacles safely. Trouble is, when I do it, it looks like someone superglued a guy to a bike then tazered him.
A PA is definately worth a look.
Yeah, I have heard horror stories of people dirt jumping XC frames and ripping the head tube off!
Anyone know what sort of weight difference there *typically* might be between a robust steel frame and a robust aluminium frame? I was assuming it would be of the order of 1 lb or so.
Don't think it's that much. More like 1/2 lb?
Well a PA is 5.5lb (and its a strong steel frame) and the Cove is 4.5lb's so a lb doesn't seem a million miles off. Bfe's are a bit lighter but much more expensive (but still cheaper than a new Cove)
The Ragley Ummbop is only 3.7lbs so its much lighter than a steel frame, but its a bit of a unknown considering you can't even buy them yet. If they do turn out to be any good I should imagine they will be very popular, as they will be strong, cheap and light.
P7
one important thing IMHO is the ability to run an adjustable seatpost, so ideally you want a 30.9 or 31.6 seatpost.
they will be strong, cheap and light
Oh no they won't! Pick any two.
Whyte 19 would get my vote. It did in fact, and it's awesome
Chameleon's not that bad in terms of stiffness, certainly no worse than any other ally hardtail (with massive fat chain and seat stays...), plus you can mitigate it a bit with a carbon post, and a squidgy saddle. I can ride all day on mine, no worries, did a 55 mile loop the other day on it, and I wasn't crippled by it.
The thing I like about the Budget Makeover article is the bit where it says (the oft-neglected mountain bike genre of “just riding along”) that’s what I do just ride along. Sometimes XC ricer sometimes Play Bike and sometimes Filth Riding but never enough of one or the other to get a specific bike for the job.
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]'airtime' on a hardtail[/url]
it is more about the rider than the frame when it comes to jumping. a full-suss will let you get away with things if you cock up and are not smooth.
They don't get any love on here so I'm going to say a DMR Trailstar is a great bike for not much money £299.99.
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How good of an 'all-day' bike is a trailstar though? Aren't they more of cross between a normal do-it-all hardtail and a dirt jump bike or more like a 4X frame?
mike_p - Memberthey will be strong, cheap and light
Oh no they won't! Pick any two.
Well at £275, 3.7lb and they exceed the new CEN testing (which a lot of steel frame's don't), it appears that they are
Time will tell though
PAs were raced at national level 4X, they can take jumps!
That'll be a P7 then . . . .
must admit that carbon Whyte is mightly tempting! Not for me but for people who earn good money!
For the price of the Whyte Carbon frame, you could get an Ibis Tranny, and I know which one I would prefer.
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Should be OK to jump, if Lopes is racing 4X on it
"at £275, 3.7lb and they exceed the new CEN testing (which a lot of steel frame's don't), "
Yes but the steel one which also exceeds the CEN tests is £260 and 5.5lbsish isn't it?
Its the aluminium one that is £275 and 3.7lbs
thats my point, the Al one is strong (passes the CEN test), cheap (£275 compared to £600 for a Cove) and light (3.7lb compared to the Cove's 4.5lb or the PA's 5.5lb)
So if it is any good it its strong, cheap (well cheapish) and light.
Isn't the CEN testing way in excess of the forces most bikes undergo in use? I remember a thread a while back where Cy Cotic and Brant Whossischops both said that it had sent them back to the drawing board, as nearly all their existing designs would fail it.
As an aside, I love the way this forum turns everyone into an expert on bike design if they hang around on it for long enough. 😉
:whistles:
I don't think anyone has posted anything that stupid (well at least for here) on this thread have they?
Don't put pictures of Ibis Trannies up please....
a bit worried that Stif will cut the price by 30% like they have on the Mojo's by any chance 🙂
I am starting to sort out my parts mountain to sell, and if I raise enough I would love to get a Ibis or a Ti frame.
Can't afford one, don't need one.
It's a mantra of sorts... 😀
I love my Cove Handjob its great up and down - only the misses doesn't like the name 😕
and people have a lot of time for a Cotic soul.
The OP's description of his riding suggests that what he needs is a "mountain bike". There are a wide selection available.
We analyse this waaaay too much. 🙂
Cove Stiffee. Where others fail, your Stiffee will remain proud forever.
What BigDummy said ^^.
Any XC-biased HT frame will do the job.
No-one has mentioned Pace RC305 yet though... (just to throw it into the mix)
[i]We analyse this waaaay too much[/i]
This is true, but i don't think they'd take kindly to endless discussions about BB height or tyres, on parrot fancier world
and another Prince Albert here
Santa Cruz Chameleon every time...does it all....
love mine
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Stiffee.
All CEN has done is make headaches for everybody not because its a test that they have to pass for now at least but
its a flawed test and there are many ways to get a frame to pass
on top of that theres lots of erroneous information from test houses that just dont make sense when you stack up the facts the best on ive seen was that just one frame out of 5 or ten passed ...hmm but its classed as a pass
Its a farce and not very representative of a great deal when you cant even say the test was performed reliably
lots of companies are swapping steel for other materials and this could result in decent aluminium and carbon (oh just can't wait for the carbon frames are shit comments coming soon)frames getting a rather bad rap
miffed because in a world where a chav can forget to do up his quick release and get loadsa money because they had the right legal counsel its can rapidly become open season on bike companies
I wouldnt worry about CEN at the moment its in a state of flux
remember the good old days when you just bought a great frame and beat the shit out of it till it broke!!!any frame that makes you happy
Got a 456 - very happy with it (tho the paint is poo)
Ridden a Soul - very nice too.
Currently like the look of a Whyte 19, but another to add to the list that I don't think has been mentioned is the Kinesis Decade Virtue - they do look nice. I reckon CRC have them.
Ooh - just spotted, they're still calling them the Prestige.
bit like a chameleon, only cheaper, and angles that suit a faster ride.
Changeable drop-out for whatever gears/single thing you fancy. Built tough, but not too heavy.
I love mine.
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Soul, if you can stretch to the cost, very very good frames indeed. Innerleithen one day, 20 miles of natural XC the next, brilliant at both. But undeniably not cheap
P7 or if more cash Soul.
I reckon the £599 Ti456, if it happens will be worth a look as well.
[i]No-one has mentioned Pace RC305 yet though... [/i]
In my case that is deliberate. As I have just built myself one it is naturally the best bike available. But as I have not ridden it yet it seems premature to comment. 🙂