[Closed] Okay so how do I become a better rider???????

Talk to "Alpin"

Get yourself a £10,000 bike 😉

Why do you want to get better though?

LOL.....................besides that what can I do 😕

Bored of doing same old same old, i genuinely want to get better so i can do more things and I supposed challenge myself.............gosh sounds like a really MLC!

Keep riding your bike more, seeing as you liked it, and more skills courses, seeing as they were good value for money?
I bet a little commitment wouldn't go amis though. May I be the first to prescribe a small, measured dose of MTFU?
Mine came in the shape of a new front tyre that gave me the confidence I needed, made it easier to go for it, yours may be a different shape 🙂

dedicated skills coaching. Find someone who can take you through right from basics. It might mean you have to relearn some of your current riding skills, and it takes time (up to 6 months maybe). You need someone who can explain the basics of where you need to be on the bike and what you need to be doing, and someone that can break this down into drills to show you the difference.

A group skills day is all very fine, but I would say that unless you have someone watching you ride, who can then translate that into what you are not doing correctly and what you should be doing instead that a group day might not help as much as some proper 1 on 1 coaching.

Get someone who can teach you the importance of balance, stance, pumping and counter steering.

Something you can do by yourself is find a pump track and learn to pump your bike effectively.

I'm beyond the point of thinking I'm going to get significantly better now. I've tried the group ride thing (liked it but too slow up and down), done a skills day (good fun but didn't really change anything), tried to get fitter (works in patches but as soon as work gets busy the amount of riding I do falls off and my fitness suffers).

I've also tried lots of bike options and that has helped somewhat (my main bike is a lightweight short travel full-suss that's pretty fast on the ups but still reasonably quick descending).

Nowadays I'm happy enough just riding by myself and at my own pace.

Perhaps you've reached your peak?

I can see about the MTFU thing........I really do not bounce that well anymore...i accept that falling off is part of it and do so....isreally just accepting to MTFU all I need to do?

I can see about the MTFU thing........I really do not bounce that well anymore...i accept that falling off is part of it and do so....isreally just accepting to MTFU all I need to do?

MTFU is a gamble though - I can't really afford to be off work for any extended period and I also don't bounce that well anymore. I had a relatively minor off (although at a fair pace) last weekend and I'm still suffering from it.

Tree Magnet.........please do not retire me yet 😉 I retired from Rugby due to injuries, football the same and running reduced to less miles and once or twice a week jog, so need something to improve at!

[i].isreally just accepting to MTFU all I need to do?[/i]
Entirely up to you, I decided a long time ago that the 'getting better', as in technical skills was going to be just a long progression of crashes as that's kinda the only way to explore you're limits, and after a bit of thought it wasn't the path to me.
That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of challenges and enjoyment in biking though, just less that involve instantaneous gratification. I prefer endurance style things as it plays to my strengths and I like the mental games you play, and just enjoying the countryside. Of course if instant gratification is your thing, then yes you'll have to MTFU and just do it. Whether it will work is a different matter though:)

I like the endurance stuff, slow and steady so how do i get better at that just ridden in the pryenees col de perysoude/port debales/portillion/superbagneres up on the road fitness was one element missing and the down where possible vtt but it lead me to bits where i just cannot ride it....................... 😳

riding with other people is a good way of improving. Seeing how someone else tackles a bit of trail can help, particulary geting over mental barriers. Plus, when you're following someone (or someones following you) you tend to be less hesitant over tricky bits and just do it.

In a simler situation, go out on a weekly basis but havn,t improved at all. Every week i useually have at least 1 incedent where i go over the top or some thing worse.
Also as a group we go out road riding as well which, is totally the opposite. Going uphill nobody can get near me and i am the oldest person at 55 years old.
I am getting to the stage that i am getting fed up with going out on my mtb as i lack so much confidence.

The main question here is - are you enjoying yourself? If the answer is yes, then just carry on riding.

vondally - Member
Tree Magnet.........please do not retire me yet I retired from Rugby due to injuries, football the same and running reduced to less miles and once or twice a week jog, so need something to improve at!

You don't have to quit because you're not as good anymore/can't get better, you know? Just 'cos people [i]say[/i] you have to be a better rider, it doesn't mean you have to be...

Turn off your PC,

Go out and ride more,

Take a step back,

Model better riders.

Go on Jedi's skill course (I've only heard great things)

just keep riding your regular routine, and build up speed/skill incrementally. Leave overnight, on/off speed increases (and the associated broken collarbones) to the teen wunderkids you get at minor DH races; just have faith in yourself, and build it up organically over a period of years. Make no massive adjustments; it's an incremental thing. Obviously, ride trails that you know well often, where you feel comfortable trying new techniques.

One suggestion specific to you might be your point about jumping. I hate jumping too! But it's actually a vital skill for fast/smooth riding. Not massive big air jumping, but rather, small jumps, often where your wheels barely leave the ground. Have you heard people refer to "going light" over rocks/roots etc.? That's what I'm talking about. You use the first rock as a ramp, go light over the rocks that follow, and use the last rock (or root) as a downslope. That's the theory. Small jumps can also be important on switchbacks and tight berms aggressively, when you literally jump the bike into the corner, swinging it round, and ramming the rear wheel into the turn. My point is that even if you hate big jumps, it's important to learn to use small jumps effectively (and the risks of doing so are really pretty small).

Do you use SPDs? If not, try that.

Good question am I enjoying my riding............

no I feel stagnated, underskilled and slow

no just coming back from injury due to poor technique and trying to get fit

yes had a week in france riding 😀

jhw great i will try that re jumping......spds wreck what is left of me knees.

been on one skills day a 1 to 2 so that was tremendous, easy when you are there on some more tech harder when you are by yourself

mojo5pro - Member

riding with other people is a good way of improving. Seeing how someone else tackles a bit of trail can help, particulary geting over mental barriers. Plus, when you're following someone (or someones following you) you tend to be less hesitant over tricky bits and just do it.

Will agree entirely with that, when I first met some of my riding mates I was totally crap and so far behind it wasn't funny, however many years later we are at about the same level and spend tme racing each other down the hills

Every ride contains a mixture of the skills you need so try concentrating on one particular skill each ride. Every time you come to a section that needs that particular skill really concentrate on what you are trying to achieve, ride it, then review it after you have ridden it.

go and see jedi. forget what you know, listen and do as he says. best £70 i spent in biking.

If you normally ride clipped in, have you tried converting and learning to ride flats? That helped my skills a hell of a lot.

The other thing to do is to figure out what it is you actually want to learn, i.e. be able to know what it is that you don't know. That sounds quite obvious but so many times people don't know what it is they want to imrove on and so it gets quite hard to coach them.

- Pumping (already mentioned) is a key skill to learn and will add loads of speed without you having to expend much energy.
- Carrying speed round corners; learning how to enter a corner with more speed than you're used to, trusting the tyres and allowing a little bit of slip
- Weighting and unweighting the bike, i,e, where to put your weight in the cockpit, especially moving it forward; where to unweight the bike over roots.

Don't worry about jumping and dropping; I can't do it to save my life but I've to get left behind on a DH run. You can get pretty good without being good a jumps and drops. You can always have a go at those next.

As for how to acquire these skills, get some one to one tuition and make sure you know what it is you want to learn.

OP - sounds like you lack confidence

I can sympathise - returned to MTBing after a long lay off due to injury and now am 1/2 the rider I was before. Its partly confidence and for me I'm nowhere near as fit as I was before
Intend to work on my fitness, flexibility, core etc, plus riding more and re-learning my skills

but, at the end of the day, get out there and enjoy yourself, which is what I'm just about to do !!

okay had a couple of hours out in the local wood, try the whole pump thing, like it need to work on that.....................what else now?

Speak to Jedi. He is a truly magnificent coach.

Im pretty naff, but things that do help are.

Jumps - these really do help with regular trail riding, learning to have you weight in the best place for this and that etc

Making a conscious effort to look further ahead, the minute I do this I ride faster..... then i forget to keep doing it.

Ride as often as you can.
Ride with a group.If they can do it,you can.
Ride through the winter,adapting to mud,ice,snow,sharpens you up and you're fit for Spring/Summer.
Stay loose on your bike. Easier said than done,but it works.

another idea is to take a little time experimenting with set up, try fatter tyres, wider bars, a little bit here and there may make all the difference to how you feel

stop trying to get better.
just enjoy yourself.

Obvious I know but If I could pick one single thing that affects my riding more than any other it is where I am looking.

If I look way ahead, the slides/ moments often take care of themselves. If I am crashing it is usually because I am looking down.

If I could not spend the fist hour of every ride looking at my front wheel, I am sure I would be better!

try a bit of XC and/or endurance racing/events?

I am getting to the stage that i am getting fed up with going out on my mtb as i lack so much confidence.

I can sympathise with that. Downhills to me were the obstacle that had to be overcome getting to the next climb. I used to get moaned at on the Merida enduros etc for holding people up on the downhills whilst mincing down them. So I've stopped doing enduros.

After going by the recommendations here, I've done 2 sessions with Jedi this year. I can't recommend him highly enough. He's got me riding down stuff 6 months ago i probably would have walked down. I doubt i've ever enjoyed my riding as much as i am now. I'm actually enjoying riding down as well as up. Money very well spent.

You said the skills coaching you had was great and worked. So go back for more. If you've found an instructor who you like, who gets you motivated and who has been able to address not only your technical skills but how to build your confidence and mental control then get back to him or her for more sessions. Most of the folks who come to us for skills training don't just have one day then go off and become the next Steve Peat. They turn their new knowledge and ideas into integral parts of their riding, and when that happens, they pick up the phone and say "ok, got that, what's next...?" It's a lot cheaper than buying stuff for your bike, but you do have to ride a lot afterwards to really put the info you get from your instructor into the front of your brain, making it a natural part of your riding.
Good luck,
Chris@CycleActive

Do people really believe in skill courses? I am wondering how people like barel, peat, akrig, chausson, vouilloz managed to reach the level they use to have without skill courses?

I know a lot of very good riders and I mean really really good (someone able to beat a world champ on one peculiar trail for instance) and they have never been on a skill course. Actually none of us (by us I mean people from the riding group) have and we seems to cope just fine.

SO did a skill course, and it actually was a step backward. Looks to me they are the latest fashion in the bike industry**.

As for the OP, jut ride more and more and more. With people faster than you are.

**I am in no way a good rider lets make this clear. Average eventually even average less seems to be my level judging to where I stand in the group.

thanks for the kind words yet again.
jaun, you think they donthave coaches? its about aspirations 🙂

Don't underestimate the importance of fitness/strength also

I'm sceptical about coaching, although my mind isn't closed on the subject.

I think it's a great service and I'm glad it's available. I've got no doubt that coaching can make slow riders become fast, with less delay/crashes than if they were left to their own devices.

At the same time, it was a formative experience for me to learn to ride on the edge the hard way, and I think it's particularly important in a sport like mountain biking where self-sufficiency and mental toughness is an absolutely key and indispensable part of the sport's ethos, something I'm sure most posters here will agree on - once you lose that self-sufficient edge to the sport, it just becomes another yuppie weekender activity (see skiing). Skills coaching is a corollary of the wider sanitisation of the sport that's taken place since I took it up. It's progress, and broadly a good thing, but I've found that figuring out good technique for myself, solo, has been the single most satisfying part of the sport and has indeed transferred into other parts of my life also.

sorry - that just sounds s****y with a silent s

bite me 😛

ok ok on re-reading fair comment

You say you like the endurance aspect, so are you booked in to Mayhem, Sleepless, Kielder 100 and all points in between?
Maybe pairs race the 24hr at Bonty?

Might put some spring in your step if you have a specific event in mind and that will focus your training and increase your fitness levels & prevent you worrying about how to improve as it sounds like you've exhausted the other options!

The other thing about the courses is that unless you go away and practise the skills being taught, and keep practising them, simply attending these days is a little pointless.

Depending on your budget, you can employ a coach. A pal of mine had an on-line coach for her Iron Man bid to great effect.

Regarding the comments on skills coaching.

If you dont think the top guys do skills coaching you are dreaming. They will also be using video analysis of their riding (and others) to pick what is happening and where they could improve. Some people are absolute naturals and will be riding their bikes extremely well without coaching, but many people have bad habits, or do wrong things that can be fixed by having a good skills coach analyse your riding.

As for jhw, learning the skills on your own is one way to do it, but is often the long way. Getting someone to give you the fundamental skills to handle the bike correctly, along with the theory of why it works can shorten the learning process immensely.

I coach here in New Zealand. I have had riders along on courses. When they started with me, they were at the back of their group, and walking bits of the downhills. After the first course they were riding much more of the downhill and no longer taking the chicken routes. After the second course they were riding well up through the group and still improving. It is why I coach skills, I love seeing people improve and love seeing the sense of achievement when they ride things well.

Juan, I think it is quite normal for peoples overall riding to initially go a little backwards after a skills course. When riding we need our reactions to be done in the subconscious. Basically if you have to stop and think about what you are doing it is all over. When you have been on a skills course it takes some time to assimilate the information and store it as reactions in the subconscious. Until you have the new information stored you will be over-thinking your riding and not riding naturally. Once you have the new information stored and are able to use it out on the trails that is when the improvement will happen.

I rode with Cycle active a few years ago and did their lakeland loop ride for a week and couldn't believe how much my riding improved. James Richards was the guide and he was awesome, it was like being coached for a week and he ran through basic stuff that enable me to take on things that I would have bottled before, and he has such a big personality that he made my week , plus he's an ex XC and DH dude, and it was brilliant setting him ride challenges every day , that he invariably managed, ;0)

Skills course until you find a coach you get on with - then MTFU the credit card and get some one on one coaching. In a fairly intensive block (like 3 w/ends in a row or something). It will have an effect.

The more regular riding helps you practise those skills which helps confidence which helps cement the skills, which helps confidence... and so on and so forth.

Try riding road? Easy to fit a quick hour on the roadie in to keep you bike fit - spend the time to focus on pedalling good circles, staying off the brakes when cornering (find a quiet back street!) when the ground is consistent to get the idea of positioning and where to put your body weight... lots of transferable skills can be practised on the road, rather than just zoning out and pedalling or worrying solely about HRM zones and that stuff that all the mags refer to.

I'm a sceptic!

I'm not sure that just riding with people who are faster / better than you will get you riding better. I've done this and watched as they rode stuff smoothly a lot faster than I did but I couldn't work out how they did it and why I wasn't doing the same. Also a lot of the time I was concentrating on my riding so much I didn't really pay anyone else that much attention, so I never learnt as quickly as I would have liked. If you stop and "session" a section with people offering advice I can see you'd learn but this is very rare on a group ride.

Also, I don't see the value in just wanting to ride fast, you need control too and having the right foundation will allow you to go faster. Progression is key and if you just add speed into the mix without improving your skills then you will injure yourself. If you improve all areas at the same pace then you'll get faster with less injuries.

I've got a LONG way to go before I can ride the way I want to but I have to say a skills course helped me no end understand what I was doing wrong and what I was missing. It could be something as simple as putting your heels down at the appropriate time.

This is a good thread, I like how the OP pre-empts all the usual stock replies.

Personally I think my riding has improved more over the last two years than the previous 15 or so, and I put that down to...

Riding with faster people - A big factor, just because it makes me ride faster to keep up.

Skills day - Useful in showing me how to jump and drop properly, although I still lose my bottle too much.

Riding more - Found more people to ride with (partly thanks to STW), most of whom are quicker than me - so I'm sure I've got a little bit fitter.

Riding DH - Going to the Alps and doing some uplift days in the UK, have found this has made me a lot more confident at XC riding.

Practicing the same bit - When I started going to Aston Hill (southern DH venue) I was doing different tracks every time at random, but after meeting another rider there who was riding the same track all day I tried the same thing - and it really worked for me. I could feel my progression throughout the day, which was very satisfying.

I'm still only an average rider and still pretty unfit, but I'm enjoying it and it seems to be working.

like what i got now a 30lbs 6 inch bike.

Maybe having a huge bike with 6 inches of travel is not quite the way forwards!
Something with 4 inches and 5lbs lighter might help you with your fitness as you'll be more inclined to get out and rig-it with guys who you know to be faster and more trail competent.
I wonder, by having this millstone between your thighs is a way of not getting out and practising all that you’ve learnt.
Just one take on it.

You state you like the endurance rides, but a 30lb bike with 6 inches of travel..... I’m struggling to think of a single endurance event that would warrant this sort of bike.

More details please.

Lots of good information on this thread.

2 things which I found really helped me a) get better/faster/confident b) enjoy it more

[u]1: Look where you [b]WANT[/b] to go[/u]
Sounds stupid, but its really not. It was a road ride that taught me this lesson most. I used to find that when going round a corner fast, I couldn't help but drift out to the edge of the road and rough stuff. It even had me off the bike once at speed. Through talking to others I was told to
- bend the inside elbow and drop my shoulder into the corner
- turn my head and shoulders to where I want the bike to be going, and not to look where I think I may end up ( like the verge ).

After doing that, I found I could corner faster and tighter, and since then I've not been drifting out as much. People have already said this on the thread, the wheels do slip a little from time to time, but if you looking where you want to go, for the most part the bike will simply follow.

[u]2: Slow speed technical climbing[/u]
Granny gear stuff over bumpy bumpy things. I used to be absolutely rubbish at it. But by getting out there and practising on the bike, I have become a lot better at it. I now am placing the front wheel where I want it to go, and knowing what to expect when the rear wheel hits bumps etc etc. I find my body moves all over the place and my arms are working hard and it didn't come straight away, but over time my balance has greatly improved and the ability to get up awkward little bits has increased. It means I can make steep climbs without dabbing and stopping and getting frustrated.

Both of these things make rides that bit more enjoyable.

I dont worry about being the fastest. I weight 15.5st and have a heavy full susser. I find finishing the ride having enjoyed it the main thing, not completing it 30seconds faster than the day before.

I think Ton is right... Chill out a bit, why not find some newbies to take out riding, you have been riding a lot for a long time and on plenty of different terrain by the sound of it, maybe your assesment of yourself is out of kilter, and a few nice non life threatening rides out with some beginners will help you re asses where your at.

Do/can you apply what you've learnt on the skills courses to other trails?

Do you go out and practice skills? Even 10 minutes spent popping up and down kerbs helps. A session out in the woods practising corners, or trying different lines across some rooty bits. - using the stuff you've learnt on the courses - forcing yourself to apply what they've taught you - not just falling back into your default "bad habits".

(as you can probably tell), I have a bit of a thing for "body memory". When you learn to do something new or different from normal, you have to do it LOTS until it becomes instinctive to do it that way, rather than in a panicked situation reverting to your old skills.

There's also a large degree of MTFU involved. You currently reside in your comfort zone. To get better (which you want to do), you need to step outside it. The trick is to do it in a controlled environment, and wear armour!

A trick I use, if I'm struggling with something, is to compare it to something near as dammit the same that I can do. A corner is always a cornee - same technique. If I can do *this* jump, then I should be able to do *that* one, as it's only a foot bigger. Think laterally!

...and most of all, believe in yourself! That's the biggest thing!

[url= http://www.superbikeschool.co.uk/technology.php ]LEVEL 2, what it teaches[/url]

This is just how STW used to be, without all the unpleasantness!

If it helps, there's a m/cycle skills company I used to use. Their most popular course was level 2 of 5 levels. Riders each year would re-do level 2, a sort of back to basics and how and where to look course.

I think the main thing you need to do is work out what you most want to improve on and work on that. Pick a weak point and try and fix that.

I'd second chakaping's suggestion about practising the same bit repeatedly. If you're out on your own get into the habit of noting the bits you think you could ride better and stop and ride them until you work out what you think you're doing wrong. And then ride it using that insight ride it till you think you've improved it. It's ridiculously satisfying to finally get a bit 'right'.

Even bits you do feel happy with have a look at them and see if you can see different ways to ride them and try them. There are bits I've ridden loads of times that after I stopped to think about them I found better lines through.

And if you do crash go back and work out why and see if you can see how you could have avoided it.

When you're out riding with mates then try and work out where it is you loose time to them. Do they take different lines, brake at different points, shift their weight differently?

And then after a while of doing this sort of thing you can always go back to do a skills course with a shopping list of specific things you want to improve which should help you get more out of it.

Doddy is with MTBR? Shows when I last read a mag !

You appear to have done everything reasonable to try and improve and I would bet you are probably much more accomplished than you think you are. Maybe it's time to accept what you have and just carry on enjoying it - after all you have a very nice bike 😉

Chances are you are merely suffering from post holiday blues.

The other thing that I don't think anyone's mentioned is to try riding different trails and areas. Personally I reckon part of the reason for my less than amazing skills is that I mainly ride around London (Swinley, North Downs etc), so I don't actually face tricky drop-offs that often, for example.
It's amazing when you do go somewhere new (Afan, Moab, wherever's realistic for you) that you do make the step up in skills as required. And it's when riding all these different types of trail that you apply the skills you've learned etc