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I was truing my rear wheel recently and got it bang on central in the jig only to find that it was about a cm closer to the driveside swingarm than the non-drive side. I redished the wheel so that it's now central in the frame but the fact that the frame is slightly "off" is annoying me. I thought the force of the chain under pedal tension might have resulted in the gradual shift of the swingarm to the rider's right - is this possible? Or could the frame have been misaligned during manufacture? The bike handles just fine, so i'm not that keen to have a go at bending the arms back to centre...
Am i worrying needlessly, or should i have a word with Orange about this? The bike is about 4 years old.
Cheers!
This isn't the first thread we've had about this in the last few days...
:s
Hmm, can't find the original thread, sorry.
My 2005 frame has a similar problem, the wheel rim being offset to the none driveside of the swingarm by a bit less than 1cm. It's been like it since new and I bet we're not the only ones...
My 2005 frame has a similar problem, the wheel rim being offset to the none driveside of the swingarm by a bit less than 1cm. It's been like it since new and I bet we're not the only ones...
Have you spoken to Orange about this? It could be that there was a reason for it...? Or at least they might be able to explain what's happened.
I started a thread a few days ago as my new orange five was off-set to the non drivers side. No real concensus as to what the cause is generally.
Not sure whether my wheel is/was dished correctly or not but I just tightened spokes a little on the drive side to bring the wheel in. Not perfect but ok.
To the naked eye the swing arm etc looks central.
Do I remember something about them making the frames asymmetric so the wheel did not have to be dished the same amount so it was stronger? Or is that something I imagined
Is it designed to be off-set. I've got a Demo7 thats got a 6mm off-set rear to give a better chain line.
Do I remember something about them making the frames asymmetric so the wheel did not have to be dished the same amount so it was stronger? Or is that something I imagined
Specialized do that on a number of bikes, such as the SX Trail, Big Hit and possibly Demo. Were you thinking of them?
mmm, sounds like a typically creative marketing departments 'explanation' to fault
Quite possibly cha****ng.
oops,stand corrected... maybe it is a "genuine" design feature then?
The problem is just that tyre clearence becomes an issue on wider tyres
Do I remember something about them making the frames asymmetric so the wheel did not have to be dished the same amount so it was stronger? Or is that something I imagined
That doesn't really fit with my bike as the offset is towards the drive/right side, which would mean a bigger dish on the non-drive side...
Specialized design some of their frames to be off-set for stronger wheel builds, Orange make shonky bikes but have a hat full of excuses.
😉
That doesn't really fit with my bike as the offset is towards the drive/right side, which would mean a bigger dish on the non-drive side...
[i][u]CONFUSED!!![/i][/u]Actually i've got that wrong... The offset is [i]away[/i] from the drive-side, which made me think that the chain tension had pulled the swingarm to the right/drive side, which resulted in the tyre being closer to the non-drive side swingarm, which seems to be consistent with other posters on here...
I'm gonna contact Orange and ask about this.
Is the gap bigger on the drive side or non-driveside?
With my five there is more space on the drive side so it can't be chain tension.
I remember some 5 or so years ago loads of bikes were made with un-dished rear wheels for strength, think they were mostly DH bikes though. I have one bike that's offset 5mm, but that's through impact with a boat and makes my bike ride in circles if I'm not careful 😀
Forget how the tyre looks in between the swing arm, it looks offset. My Five is like this, more space on the drive side.
But the tyre is central to the seat post and hence the front tyre. IMHO that is what matters, not how central it is to the rear swing arm.
The frame has probably been built misaligned. My mate used to say he'd never get an Orange cos they had issues with building the frames straight.
I'd imagine this issue has been sorted for a few years now but if yours is 4 years old then perhaps thats the problem
I had the same problem with my old sub5 it was built pi$$ed, quality jigs eh, orange bless em wanted to sell me a new swinging arm bless em
I had issues with a P7 when they first came out in the early 90's with slipping seat posts 4 frames later in a month and a refund from my lbs
Would I go back to orange again NO WAY
funnily enough, the only wheel that runs straight in my orange 5 is the one out of my old specialized SX trail....
bugger...
mines got a slightly larger gap on the drive side. but surely it has to be like that to allow for the cassette. the wheel still runs in line with seatpost.
I should have mentioned my alignment issue when the weld between the seat tube and the BB shell cracked and it had to go back to Orange with 2 weeks left on the waranty, but didn't... At least their repairs hold up well!
I'd re-dish the wheel slightly if I could could be bothered to get round to it. Can't say I notice anything when riding.
I have an answer from Orange! Just called them and they say that in the models from a few years ago they used to use forged mech hangers, which were quite soft and prone to wearing down from chain tension under pedalling, which in turn caused the wheel to be pulled away from the driveside swing arm (as i have experienced). So they have suggested that i should replace the old, silver, hanger with one of the new, black ones, which are much tougher. I said i was surprised that the worn hanger would result in such a shift of the wheel from centre, but they were pretty adamant that only a mm or so of wear would result in the level of offset that i'm experiencing.
I'll order the new hanger and will report back once it's fitted.
1 degree on a 355mm radius = 6.2mm - looks like they could be right -)
bollocks, my friend and I have Orange 5s, same hangers, my wheel is almost aligned, his is out by not quite a centimetre, as if a alloy mech hanger, that is less than a cm thick could 'squash' or wear to such an extent that the wheel was out of alignment by a cm, ludicrous.
I agree Oranges answer doesn't make sense. My five is new and had the alignment issue from the beginning.
I agree Oranges answer doesn't make sense. My five is new and had the alignment issue from the beginning.
Then I suggest you get in touch with Orange and if something's wrong they should put it right.
I plan to fit a new dropout (tbh i could do with one as mine's been bended a few times...) and then check that the frame/swingarm is aligned. If it's not i'll probably talk to Orange again and/or i *might* have a go at bending the swingarms back in line (in Zinn's excellent maintenance book he suggests that unless you notice the effect of a misaligned frame, you should probably leave it alone...).
Do Orange make the 5 in Halifax?
If yes, take it down there and get it onto the alignment jig.
You may not like what they do with a mallet 👿
Why does it matter?
If the wheels running 'straight' (which mine is) then the only problem it causes is with clearence on running wide tyres.
does sound like poo although 1cm at the tyre would be caused by only 1.9mm of wear...which is quite alot...that must be some sh*te alloy they used in the dropout.
Whichever the explanation, it's pretty poor.
I'm not convinced its a dropout/hangar issue.
My new, never ridden Five, has the same issue and it hasn't even got a dropout as it's got a maxle swingarm!
Both my previous Attack trails (both pre 08 - i.e. dropout versions) also had the same problem.
I have noticed that the amount of offset differs depending on which wheel I have fitted. So sounds like a dishing issue. But who knows.
At the end of the day I have never noticed any perceptible effect on the bikes handling. So have just got on with it.
As previously mentioned its more of a problem from a tyre width perspective than anything.
So has my Turner and my Cotic, big deal, I suspect that has crushed a few myths about quality bikes!!
Fieldmarshall,
just an aside - coincidently I've just gone from old style attack trail to a five (maxle rear end too). Considering the attack trail was a high end bike, I'm finding the five so much better in every aspect. I was really surprised at the difference. Single pivot it maybe, but it just goes to show it's about balance and geometry and not fancy linkages.
Oranges have always been like this. my first sub5 in 2001 was like it, so were both its replacements, and the orange patriot after that. I've not thought to check the Turner though.
mojo5pro - good to hear that you are pleased with the Five.
Haven't ridden mine yet, as I have not quite finished building mine up, as I could not swap everything directly across, i.e. wider BB shell, seat tube different diameter etc,
Hoping I will really notice the difference from the AT, as I never really felt comfortable descending on the AT, too perched, head angle too steep.
Although it was still a hard decision to dicth a perfectly good bike for a new one. Even harder to convince the wife!
ps saw your previous post on this issue and I am also running Pro 2 rear hub.
I have an 08 Pro and the wheel sits completely true - lucky I guess ! -)
Need to check mine but having run a wideish 2.35 Nevegal out back for a lot of it's 16 month life, I can't say I've ever noticed... Will report back.
My rear wheel (2007 Pro) is bang on central to the frame, the rear swingarm appears to be slightly asymetric as there is a couple of mm difference in tyre clearance, 2.35 Nevegal on the back has plenty of mud clearance, bike tracks well, corners well, climbs well and descends well so no fuss from me.
I've had sample frames from my builders that are at least 5mm out of track (visual only do not ride)... and haven't noticed any particular issues on bumpy offroad stuff. I would guess at high speed dirt road, or, er, road stuff, you might well notice.
I've had sample frames from my builders that are at least 5mm out of track (visual only do not ride)... and haven't noticed any particular issues on bumpy offroad stuff. I would guess at high speed dirt road, or, er, road stuff, you might well notice.
Yes yes. I've not noticed any effect on ride characteristics, and as Mr Zinn says, don't muck with the alignment unless you notice it... I've chosen to allow this to bother me. A new hanger has been ordered, so when it's fitted, i'll report back. 🙂
Hmmm, mine's pretty much bang on, perhaps 1 or 2 mm out at most but I can't be sure if I'm just trying to see something and it's my eyes fooling me.
Well waddayaknow. New bit arrived from Orange today. Fitted this morning, wheel redished, and it all works! There might be a mm or so to argue about, but otherwise it's all spinning centrally.
Glad to have had this issue resolved 🙂